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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,164
    Yes, because the stats on auto assembly and parts also don't take into account the dealerships, the services they buy, the people they employ, and the taxes they pay all here in the USA.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,657
    Both our vehicles are made in Mexico now, an Audi and a VW. Would be interesting to sit/drive a similar unit built in Germany and then compare it to the Mexican built unit. Betting they would be almost identical in every way. But could be wrong here.
    I have been lucky enough to be able to play the stock market a bit in the last twelve years and it's been quite the learning experience. Am not one who likes risk but have been enjoying the buying/selling part of it all. I started out watching Cramer on CNBC nightly as much for the entertainment as for the knowledge. He's definitely a showman but he made investing fun for me when I knew nothing. Now, I read a lot and am a bit more conservative as I approach my mid sixties knowing that I definitely want to retire again by the end of 2018 or sometime in 2019, G-d willing. So now, play the market as much as I can and save more than I spend so when the time comes and the paycheck does stop, I can live the same, or similar lifestyle as now.
    Luckily, especially now, if one wants to work, one can find a job in most parts of America. I was lucky as I found a job within hours of my starting to look a few years back. And luckily, that one gig lead to another which lead to my current one which I like and will keep till I retire. So yes, anything is possible in America and luckily, in my working career, I've been blessed with good jobs that have let me earn a living and raise a nice family. All our needs have been met, and some of our wants, and feel great knowing that our three kids are now all out in the work force working good jobs and not just expecting the government to pay their way. And hopefully when, and if they have kids, they will do the same for them...as it should be!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    I know that in my new Cruze, engine and trans assembly, and of course, final assembly, are U.S.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    Regarding Ford's move of production of all small cars to Mexico---Ford has announced that no jobs will be lost. All employees formerly building those cars will be moved to other production lines.

    That's good news and IMO was also damage-control by Ford, but if production of a line is moved to Mexico, and other U.S. assembly is ramping up enough to employ those workers who built the car line that is moving to Mexico, still, couldn't Ford produce those (soon-to-be-Mexican) cars in the U.S. too, adding more U.S. workers? I guess the official line would be "no production space".
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,390

    I'm proud to say that I work for a company that offers four SUVs that are made in America; even better It can build one to order and have it at your local dealer in 3-4 weeks.

    Is one of those 4 SUV's made to order in under a month the X1?
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,936

    Regarding Ford's move of production of all small cars to Mexico---Ford has announced that no jobs will be lost. All employees formerly building those cars will be moved to other production lines.

    That's good news and IMO was also damage-control by Ford, but if production of a line is moved to Mexico, and other U.S. assembly is ramping up enough to employ those workers who built the car line that is moving to Mexico, still, couldn't Ford produce those (soon-to-be-Mexican) cars in the U.S. too, adding more U.S. workers? I guess the official line would be "no production space".

    They've already got a huge infrastructure in Mexico---why would they build a new plant? They need the US plant space for EVs, so the story goes.

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  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,230
    andres3 said:

    I'm proud to say that I work for a company that offers four SUVs that are made in America; even better It can build one to order and have it at your local dealer in 3-4 weeks.

    Is one of those 4 SUV's made to order in under a month the X1?
    andres3 said:

    I'm proud to say that I work for a company that offers four SUVs that are made in America; even better It can build one to order and have it at your local dealer in 3-4 weeks.

    Is one of those 4 SUV's made to order in under a month the X1?
    Unfortunately not; the X1 is built in either Germany or Brazil.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    They've already got a huge infrastructure in Mexico---why would they build a new plant? They need the US plant space for EVs, so the story goes.

    That one thing would keep me from buying a new car. It's not that I don't think there are quality cars coming from Mexico, but my take is, why reward the manufacturer for that? Same reason I wouldn't buy a Cruze hatchback and why I didn't buy an HHR in 2008.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,936
    If you didn't buy what was made overseas you'd be living in a dark empty house eating Idaho potatoes. Not buying a car in Mexico isn't going to give anyone a job back that lost one, although it might allow someone to keep the one he has----but you'll pay more for the car and he'll pay more for auto parts for the car he's driving.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    Again, I think I'm seeing California-think versus NE Ohio-think. :) But that's OK of course.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,936
    What matters is what happens on a national basis. For instance, reducing the dollar's value might benefit your region on a short-term basis but overall would hurt the purchasing power for the vast majority of Americans who don't live in factory towns. So it's National vs. Ohio-think in this case.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    edited February 2017
    Definitely for a net importer like the US, a weak dollar doesn't help actual working people. I think the cost of goods will rise more than the impact of new jobs. Those corporate profits don't trickle down as much as some have been told, and I think mere automation will prevent an en-masse return of manufacturing jobs. I also don't think the consumer sees any savings from a car built in a low cost market - it all goes to the top. MBs didn't get cheaper when certain models started production in Alabama. VWs Chevys and Fords didn't see a price cut with Mexico production either.




  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,390
    edited February 2017
    fintail said:

    Definitely for a net importer like the US, a weak dollar doesn't help actual working people. I think the cost of goods will rise more than the impact of new jobs. Those corporate profits don't trickle down as much as some have been told, and I think mere automation will prevent an en-masse return of manufacturing jobs. I also don't think the consumer sees any savings from a car built in a low cost market - it all goes to the top. MBs didn't get cheaper when certain models started production in Alabama. VWs Chevys and Fords didn't see a price cut with Mexico production either.




    Chinese manufactured wheels can be very cheap though. Browsing Tire Rack there are some seemingly nice looking wheels for $150 (17" x 8"). Lightweight, but is it durably constructed without paint finish flaws? Motegi Racing; any opinions on the brand here?

    Won't be able to know that until I see them in person and use them for some time. On the fence. Maybe once the Alltrack reaches 5,000 miles and proves itself "not a lemon," and the OEM tires are at least partially used up.

    Even the "cheap" wheels from Germany, Italy, and Japan can't compete with that pricing. They are very expensive. Thailand is one Chinese made competitor price wise that I've found browsing wheels.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,936
    The real world solution for those folks living in bombed-out factory towns is not to wait for new jobs to come in, but to move to where there are jobs, if they are able. People following work has been an American way of life for centuries.

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,390

    The real world solution for those folks living in bombed-out factory towns is not to wait for new jobs to come in, but to move to where there are jobs, if they are able. People following work has been an American way of life for centuries.

    Human inertia is a problem. I've often wondered why people stay in desolate areas. I don't think it's just finances, because there are other lower cost areas to live in within the US.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    I wouldn't make that move based on political reasons alone, not to mention potential quality issues. I won't buy a car from that "most favored" area either, for the same reasons.

    A lot of high employment areas are also desolate in some ways too, I call them "low cost, low amenity".
    andres3 said:



    Even the "cheap" wheels from Germany, Italy, and Japan can't compete with that pricing. They are very expensive. Thailand is one Chinese made competitor price wise that I've found browsing wheels.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    In the case of NE OH, there are still factories doing well/going strong. As a resident here, I like to contribute if I can. I wouldn't buy a car I didn't like just for that reason, but to me it's gravy.

    Personally, I have lived in suburban Atlanta, the small town where I grew up which is not a suburb, and suburban area where I live now. By far, the best quality of life IMHO was the small town. I think a square mile is a square mile wherever you live, but if you have to share it with fewer people, most everybody will get along better. Your results may vary, LOL.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,390
    edited February 2017
    fintail said:

    I wouldn't make that move based on political reasons alone, not to mention potential quality issues. I won't buy a car from that "most favored" area either, for the same reasons.

    A lot of high employment areas are also desolate in some ways too, I call them "low cost, low amenity".

    andres3 said:



    Even the "cheap" wheels from Germany, Italy, and Japan can't compete with that pricing. They are very expensive. Thailand is one Chinese made competitor price wise that I've found browsing wheels.


    Do other Asia Pacific Countries that manufacture goods get a pass, or are they grouped in with China. I pay attention to where things are made, so the common ones I see lately besides China are:
    1. Thailand
    2. Indonesia
    3. Malaysia
    If I add clothes related items like belts, shoes, shirts, and the wife's expensive hand bag collection, you can add:
    • Bangladesh
    • India
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,164

    By far, the best quality of life IMHO was the small town. I think a square mile is a square mile wherever you live, but if you have to share it with fewer people, most everybody will get along better.

    Well I don't know, it seems that it's more the small town people who want to force their morality on others. So "getting along" is relative. But that's another topic not directly related to cars...

    While I agree that it's great to support local manufacturing, there is something to be said for some trade and interdependencies. I see a web of trade as a way to reduce overall risk of wars, or to at least have those "wars" be economic rather than with bombs. So probably a mix, where we preserve significant manufacturing capability while still trading and using others' goods is a best approach. I do agree that a formal strategy over manufacturing and capabilities would be a good thing for this country, but I'm not seeing any politicians with that level of awareness or foresight.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    edited February 2017
    My experience is around the wonderful-ness of knowing most everybody. That's something I've never had anyplace else and can't be replicated I'm afraid.

    About a month ago, a Facebook video came my way, of a woman in Virginia looking for her birth mother. She said she was born in my hometown in Jan. 1975. I almost immediately thought I knew who her mother was, as she looked like a girl in my class I remembered having a baby, but sadly the mother had died some years back. I thought it wasn't my place to tell her. It ended up that in less than three hours after she posted the video on Facebook, she had received contact from her birth uncle. The very next Sunday, she went to our hometown with her adopted parents and met her birth family--nine uncles and aunts and twenty-six first cousins--at mass there. The priest told her story in his homily about how the whole town was excited for her. He had her come out to the center aisle where she thanked the parish and the town. She then said it was her adoptive mother's birthday, and he had her also come to the center aisle where the parish sang her "Happy Birthday".

    Wonderful story which shows the power of social media, but she was blown away by the warmth and caring of everybody she met in my hometown...at church, afterwards, and also through social media. That's the kind of story I'm not sure would have the same ending where I live now.

    For me, chain retail and restaurants don't overcome daily congestion everywhere. I'd rather go to those places on the weekend even if it's a half-hour drive.

    As a side note to all this manufacturing talk, no matter who you like or hate, I think we'll all agree the stock market performance, at least so far, is certainly good for anybody who has an IRA or pension--which is probably most people here. I was expecting quite the opposite.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    If one wants everything wrong with suburban sprawl, look no further than Atlanta, and the TX-FL belt in general. I'd rather have a small town than deal with that, too.

    My mom lives in a smallish town. The weather can be dreary, and it is a bit down on its luck in terms of the economy, but some locals still have fight left in them, and they do what they can to keep it going. I lived there from the time I was roughly in middle school through high school and shortly after, and don't regret it. It also has some lovely old housing stock, and a more relaxed pace, but there's one big problem - not many jobs capable of paying the mortgage on those nice old houses.

    In the case of NE OH, there are still factories doing well/going strong. As a resident here, I like to contribute if I can. I wouldn't buy a car I didn't like just for that reason, but to me it's gravy.

    Personally, I have lived in suburban Atlanta, the small town where I grew up which is not a suburb, and suburban area where I live now. By far, the best quality of life IMHO was the small town. I think a square mile is a square mile wherever you live, but if you have to share it with fewer people, most everybody will get along better. Your results may vary, LOL.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    Don't forget Vietnam, especially for small electronics. I feel less bad patronizing them than some others, yes. When one treats social, environmental, and IP issues in the manner of a certain someone (who has been given free reign thanks to thoughtless politicos), it makes me have a hard time wanting to patronize it outside of maybe tourism.
    andres3 said:


    Do other Asia Pacific Countries that manufacture goods get a pass, or are they grouped in with China. I pay attention to where things are made, so the common ones I see lately besides China are:

    1. Thailand
    2. Indonesia
    3. Malaysia
    4. Bangladesh
    5. India
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    edited February 2017
    I work at home, so the lack of good-paying jobs in my old hometown--other than MD's at the hospital, professors at the college there, or the handful of attorneys, etc.--wouldn't be an issue for me. No Target there, so the Mrs. has an issue, LOL.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,164

    My experience is around the wonderful-ness of knowing most everybody. That's something I've never had anyplace else and can't be replicated I'm afraid.

    About a month ago, a Facebook video came my way, of a woman in Virginia looking for her birth mother. She said she was born in my hometown in Jan. 1975. I almost immediately thought I knew who her mother was, as she looked like a girl in my class I remembered having a baby, but sadly the mother had died some years back. I thought it wasn't my place to tell her. It ended up that in less than three hours after she posted the video on Facebook, she had received contact from her birth uncle. The very next Sunday, she went to our hometown with her adopted parents and met her birth family--nine uncles and aunts and twenty-six first cousins--at mass there. The priest told her story in his homily about how the whole town was excited for her. He had her come out to the center aisle where she thanked the parish and the town. She then said it was her adoptive mother's birthday, and he had her also come to the center aisle where the parish sang her "Happy Birthday".

    Wonderful story which shows the power of social media, but she was blown away by the warmth and caring of everybody she met in my hometown...at church, afterwards, and also through social media. That's the kind of story I'm not sure would have the same ending where I live now.

    For me, chain retail and restaurants don't overcome daily congestion everywhere. I'd rather go to those places on the weekend even if it's a half-hour drive.

    As a side note to all this manufacturing talk, no matter who you like or hate, I think we'll all agree the stock market performance, at least so far, is certainly good for anybody who has an IRA or pension--which is probably most people here. I was expecting quite the opposite.

    Great story uplander, you did good!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    Thanks, but her uncle saw her video on Facebook, independently of me! The video got passed around to a lot of people from Greenville. I was correct in who I thought her mother was though.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,390
    We're Honda's suspect V6 transmissions back in the early 2000's made in Ohio? Not that it matters much.

    I honestly can't remember if that 5-speed auto was made the same place they assemble the Accord's, in Ohio.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    I suspect the fragile Honda transmissions were an engineering defect rather than manufacturing.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,390
    fintail said:

    I suspect the fragile Honda transmissions were an engineering defect rather than manufacturing.

    That's true, I remember reading they used the same transmission for the 4-cylinders, and didn't have the issue. That right there is the problem as the V6 was much more powerful than the 4-banger.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    Exactly, I suspect the torque melted it.

    For V8 AMG cars, the transmission from a V12 car would be used to compensate for the power - and even then, it needs to be maintained.
    andres3 said:



    That's true, I remember reading they used the same transmission for the 4-cylinders, and didn't have the issue. That right there is the problem as the V6 was much more powerful than the 4-banger.

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,657
    Interesting how the economy has been doing pretty good these last few years. The stock market has been also in a roll though I expected it would continue to keep rolling no matter who lives in the White House. Hopefully things will continue to be good the next few years as they have been under the last guy! Glad that my investments are doing well as I hope to retire again in a year or two.

    The Sandman :) B)

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

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