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Lincoln MKS



  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I was smiling! :blush:
  • bdymentbdyment Posts: 570
    You a funny, funny fellow. Very humorous.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Yes I was kidding. However, I will share some honest thoughts and would be interested to hear from anyone else who test drives an MKS ecoboost.

    Other than a very slight lag just off idle, the car feels like it has a large displacement V8. Lots of torque down low and very smooth. There is very little sound from the engine - even at wide open throttle. There is much less engine sound than I recall from the 3.7 MKS and much less than my wife's Taurus. If you are looking for a scream like an Indy car or a rumble like a NASCAR stocker, you will be disappointed.

    The transmission is extremely smooth. Whether using just "D" or the paddle shifters, I could barely feel the shifts and since the engine is so quiet I could barely hear the shifts either. On one occasion, I hit the rev limiter because I was too slow in shifting from 1st to 2nd. I was attempting to shift by sound rather than looking at the tach. Problem was there isn't much sound!

    Truth be told, if I hadn't read all of the published tests with the sub 6 second 0-60 times, I would not have believed that it was that quick. The speedometer zings up the dial quickly but there is not much sensation of fast acceleration. The car is very high geared to achieve the 25 MPG highway rating. That also keeps it exceptionally quiet at cruise. One nice thing about all the torque is that it will accelerate pretty nicely without a downshift and without the transmission hunting for the right gear.

    I really think this is the perfect engine for the MKS and if anyone passed on the 2009 because it didn't have a V8, they should give the ecoboost a try. I think they will forget all about the need for a V8. It gives up nothing in smoothness, power, quiet or refinement. I admit that it does not sound as cool as a high revving V8. I think the pros outweight the cons, though.
  • madlockmadlock Posts: 42
    I had the good fortune of locating a dealer that has accepted into stock both the new Taurus SHO and 2010 MKS, although they have not yet received an EcoBoost-equipped MKS.

    I have VERY good things to report (in addition to the standard fare associated with Ford's ethos or the current MKS iteration). The EcoBoost is a tremendous powerplant; and in a comparably-sized and weighted vehicle, it's a true performer. The steady rush of power throughout the rev range is much more akin to riding a wave than a kick in the backside, and it makes the vehicle deceptively fast.

    The 2010 MKS has been improved; and as previously noted, the suspension seems to be more taut and responsive without loosing the feel that's decidedly favors luxury over performance. Cabin noise too has been mitigated, and it's apparent the lessons Ford learned with their silencing exercise in the Flex have carried forward in a manner that makes a tangible difference. Even though it would have been a clear "me too" effort, I wish Ford would go one step further to exploit the audio system in the manner of a sound silencing headset to dynamically dampen cabin noise as GM has begun doing, especially as it's mostly a "software" product that doesn't add to manufacturing costs. The extent to which it benefits ambient cabin silence is astounding in the form GM has done; and it would truly make the MKS silent.

    The only concern I have about the MKS with EcoBoost is braking power. The Taurus/MKS is a LOT of vehicular mass; and both the size of the vehicle and nature of the EcoBoost's torque application can be ALARMINGLY deceptive. And while only a fool would try to race-up switchbacks in either a Taurus or MKS, a beefier 4 or 6-piston brake system would seem to be a more natural (and reassuring) alternative, not to mention larger rotors to spread the braking load.

    I very-much like the 2010's improved 3-gauge instrument cluster and can't wait to try-out Active Park Assist in the MKS when an EB model arrives. It's clear that with all the weight that comes with the MKS, the EB is the engine to have powering it. And driving with the shift paddles is a hoot.

    My only gripes with the 2010 EB MKS are the often-cited ones. At $54,000 (with Ultimate Package), it's priced at a point well above competitive vehicles. One must buy the MKS (in all flavors) DESPITE its relatively high price, rather than because of it. Also, the spate of high quality used vehicles available now and in the foreseeable future combined with heavily-subsidized recent sales leaves such a large residual delta that leasing an MKS (whose residual is comparatively poorer than most) is often a more expensive proposition than buying one. At the very least, leasing as a more affordable alternative to buying no longer applies. For all the great things the MKS is, it's NOT a $54K vehicle.

    Furthermore, despite all the terrific technology and some very nice interior appointments, the MKS still has some half-hearted cheapness in many areas. And while it many not detract from the overall driving experience, cheap plastic (especially cheap FEELING plastic) is just something that nobody should find in a $54K car, nor is the sense that any interior component was made to be deliberately inexpensively (like the backseat climate and air vent controls in the center console). Shame on Ford for letting this slip through. This remains a fundamental difference between LM and say VW or Mercedes, whose ethos is simply that nothing in their vehicles will feel cheaply or poorly made rather than spending-up the budget on the biggest attention-getting items, only to have to economize in certain other areas. Why the heck would Ford want to risk anyone shaking their head because the sliding console cover feels like it was made from the tray in a box of gift chocolates? It's these stupid forehead-smacking little details that make me so mad.

    Also, with all of the great technology for has available, there's no excuse for Lincoln vehicles not to be at least a superset of its Ford/Mercury equivalents. For example, the Active Motion seats in the Taurus are FANTASTIC. That a customer might have to look at both vehicles and think to himself, "You mean I CAN'T get those on the MKS?" Boggles the mind. The same is true of the way the collision avoidance warning portion of the Adaptive Cruise control is implemented. Ford means to tell me that Taurus drivers get a visual warning MKS drivers don't? It's hard to rationalize these things when Ford differentiates its common-platform vehicles less than most other makers.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm a Ford loyalist, both for the cars it now makes and in principle given the economic realities of the automotive manufacturing marketplace. I simply won't buy a GM, no matter how bloody fantastic the CTS-V may happen to be. I also know that Ford has come an unbelievably long way in a very short time, all without the benefit of a $50B tailwind or debt amnesia. But part and parcel of rebuilding their philosophy from the ground-up HAS to be a best-in-class attention to detail on the small, cheap fixes if they want to sell $54K cars with the "big boys" who don't have negative histories to overcome. Plus, GM may not always may crappy-feeling interiors by comparison forever...

    The MKS I REALLY want to own is the next version they make. In the meantime, I understand that if I want Ford to survive to produce the next version, I have to be willing to buy the current version until then. And even so, the current MKS is a car that I will undoubtedly enjoy for all the great things it brings to the table. I just look forward to the day when I can make such a sizable purchase and know that I've bought the best-in-class in all respects, and am free from the "tsk, tsk" kind of minutiae altogether.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    At $54,000 (with Ultimate Package), it's priced at a point well above competitive vehicles.

    Please name these competitive vehicles that are priced well below $54K. Don't forget you'll need the V8 versions to get the same power and performance.

    For example, the Active Motion seats in the Taurus are FANTASTIC. That a customer might have to look at both vehicles and think to himself, "You mean I CAN'T get those on the MKS?" Boggles the mind. The same is true of the way the collision avoidance warning portion of the Adaptive Cruise control is implemented. Ford means to tell me that Taurus drivers get a visual warning MKS drivers don't? It's hard to rationalize these things when Ford differentiates its common-platform vehicles less than most other makers.

    What you fail to realize is that the Taurus is Ford's first attempt to take the Ford brand upmarket. They'll do the same with Lincoln and the MKS but not right away. It's simply a matter of timing and which brands gets the $$ when. The fact that Ford took the Taurus so far is actually good news for Lincoln fans because it means Lincoln will move even further upmarket (presumably with even better interiors and features) in the next round of updates. The MKS was caught in between and will take another year or two to get up to speed.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Which unfortunately is the pickle that Ford is still in. Catch up. Catch up. Some really great and innovative features are turning on now on an unfinished car. Best they can do right now. Sales are picking up here and there. Maybe this will work.

    It does make me wonder if bankrupt GM (which has more new models and more differentiation within those lines coming than Ford does) made the better or worse decision by accepting government help. Time will tell.

    One thing we do know is that we have a new order of excellence in the industry overall. If Lincoln dies (I hope it doesn't), it won't be missed nearly as much as Cadillac (or Packard or Chrysler for that matter...can't imagine that Cadillac or Chrysler will make it if Lincoln can't). But if Lincoln bites the dust, we will continue to have excellent choices for luxury rides regardless.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Good post, madlock. I agree the MKS (and Taurus) need better brakes. That has been noted in a number of reviews and I agree the MKS pedal is not as firm as it should be. Also, yes, the MKS would benefit from better materials on the console and sliding arm rests. Yes, again, it seemed odd to me that the Taurus would get BLIS and the massaging seats before the MKS.

    I don't think any of this says the MKS is a red-headed step-child or that Ford has forgotten about it. The biggest "need" it had was a stronger engine - and it got it. There was also room to tweak the NVH control, ride and handling - and it got that. The MKS also gets the active park assist which is not available on the Taurus. It has the power tilt/telescope steering wheel that is not on the Taurus - although the Taurus has adjustable pedals. The MKS has the dual panel moonroof and the Taurus doesn't. Take a look at some smaller details like lining inside the door cubbies, the sealing around the front doors, and the quality of the leather, the warranty, etc.

    No question the Taurus needed a lot more help than the MKS. The Taurus has moved up market and now the Limited comes close to the base MKS in content and in pricing. As Akirby mentions, this leaves room for Lincoln to move up, too. Frankly, at this point, I don't think the Lincoln name carries enough clout to make it viable at a much higher price point but that could change. We now have the MKT which is getting great reviews, the MKZ which is greatly improved, and the ecoboost MKS. Compare this line-up with where they were in 2007.

    Speaking of pricing, help me understand what competitive vehicles with the same level of content and performance are available for less than an Ecoboost MKS? Don't say the SHO - it's not even aimed at the same buyer and cross-shoppers will have a clear choice once they see and drive them both. Genesis? E-Class? RL? STS? GS? What?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Audi A8 4.2 AWD. Same size as the MKS - 350 hp/325 lb/ft. STARTS at $75K.
    Acura RL 3.7 AWD Smaller. 325/270. $55K loaded.
    Infinit M45 4.5L AWD Smaller 325/336. starts at $56K.

    Sure looks competitively priced to me and in most cases with more equipment.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Um...excuse me??? You compare the A8 with the MKS? Well, why not throw in the Mercedes S Class and BMW 7 series and compare those prices too? The MKS is a good vehicle for what it is, and a great improvement for the nadir that Lincoln had sunk to...but let's not forget that it is fat looking and slightly dumpy looking, and not the eye-catching or classy presence that many buyers go for in this $50K class. :D Why, it doesn't look much better than the Infiniti M if you really think about it. And how is that going to gain it traction in this difficult time?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    It's cheaper than the A6, too, but size wise it's a lot closer to the A8 so I thought it was a fair comparison. I don't understand why looks is a factor in determining the relative cost of a vehicle compared to the competition. Looks are always subjective - room, power and features are not.

    Are you seriously saying that a $55K MKS is overpriced compared to a $55K Infiniti even though the MKS has more power and more room and at least the same number of gadgets if not more? Just because you might prefer the Infiniti styling over the MKS styling?

    Maybe we should factor in an automatic MSRP adjustment for every vehicle based on whether you like the styling or not? :blush:
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    And just think how many MKSs could you have for the price of just one Bentley? ;)

    Gregg, you strike me as a styling connoisseur and I respect that. Most of the time I agree with you although appearance isn't so important to me. For what it is worth, it seems that a lot of people think the MKS is pretty striking. When I was test driving an MKS for about a day and a half recently, I was almost embarrassed by the number of people - friends, neighbors, and strangers - who just gushed over it. Granted, I live in a land of SUVs, minivans, and pick-up trucks so this reaction doesn't mean much. However, a lot of people seem to think the MKS is pretty striking in spite of the height, overhangs, etc that neither you or I like.

    The only real competitors of the MKS that I have driven are the Acura RL and the Caddy STS. I think the MKS ecoboost blows them both away by a country mile.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Allen, you are right of course that styling is not correlated well with price. And BTW I don't think the Infiniti M is better looking than the MKS. If I ran the world, I realize I would would probably run the whole shebang right into the ground. However, it saddened me when it became obvious that they were really going to go with the derivative styling of the MKS concept for Lincoln's first clean sheet design in awhile.

    Further, you can argue that the MKS is fairly priced, given equipment levels (it is) and competitive models (which the A8 definitely isn't), but at the end of the day if people say that's a lot of money for a Lincoln, then it is. I preferred the Lexus (and lately Hyundai) approach of bringing out a model that matched or exceeded other luxury marques, and then undercutting them by many thousands in order to get really established. That the Genesis is actually selling, even if not in huge numbers, is success, considering it is from the same company that built the very cheap and very bad Excel some years ago. And now next year, the Equus is coming here--a large very luxurious very well equipped RWD V8 sedan (a car that could start horning in on A8 territory) starting at about $50K. If an upstart Korean company can do that, and trust me, the Chinese will soon start getting this stuff right as well, Lincoln has to aim higher (and not just pricewise) if it is to survive long-term.

    As an aside, I never put much stock in bystander reaction to a model without considering all the factors. Most people are prone to be polite and complimentary when a new model that you are driving is brought to their attention. And new Lincolns are relatively scarce out there in the herd, whether you are talking MKS, MKZ or MKX. Suddenly seeing what seems to be a quality built car with decent styling will easily elicit praise. But fantastic styling can certainly sell cars at times. Quality and reputation can also sell even dowdy cars. Lincoln really doesn't have either situation right now. While Ford models may be eliciting praise for initial quality, Lincoln is stumbling a bit there. Sales are way down as well. And meanwhile, Lincoln doesn't have the cash to do anything more than it is already doing right now.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I understand what you're saying Gregg - more people would buy a MKS if it matched the competition at a lower price. But when I see "overpriced" then I'm thinking objectively - as in you can buy the same features, performance, luxury and size in another vehicle for less money and I just don't see that here. If anything the MKS is either more vehicle for the same money or the same vehicle for less money - not factoring in subjective qualities like brand prestige, etc.

    How many they can sell with that strategy remains to be seen.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    I share your sentiments brucelinc and my son whom works for Honda drove my MKS and said that it has a smoother ride that the RL. He chalks it up to the way the suspension is set up. Weight differences plays a factor as well even though I do not know off the top of my head what the RL weights. I had my windows tinted and I though it was striking before, Now I have a few people looking at it when I come out of a store or something. The other day two guys (MKS owners) were impresses with the tint work in combination of the workmanship of the vehicle. I suspect theirs will be tinted soon as well.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    The MKS ecoboost that I drove last week has been sold already. My dealer also got in their first SHO. I was going to drive it today but it sold yesterday!

    The sales manager at my dealership has informed me that mine is "on the ramp in Chicago" and is supposedly ready to ship. It has been a tad frustrating to see dealers get and sell ecoboost MKSs with later build dates than mine. I am still glad I ordered because no dealer has had the color combination or equipment that I want.

    The situation, as I understand it, is that the first 2-300 ecoboost MKSs built underwent intense quality checks and they found a software calibration issue (according to the zone manager.) So, the process was to make the correction in calibration and continue building the cars and shipping the ones after the fix was made. In the meantime, they go back and make the fix on the first cars one at a time and those get shipped later.

    This process helps assure quality and avoids TSBs and warranty work so it makes sense. It does, however, delay delivery to the customers who ordered cars early. I am sure my slight frustration will melt away as soon as the car arrives, though.
  • I ordered my MKS ecoboost in May and still do not have it. In the meantime, dealers are getting their stock and the cars have build dates later than the one I have on order. I exchange emails with the sales person, sales manager, and zone manager regularly. I have called the Ford Customer Care line and chatted with them.

    Nearly a month ago, I was told that the early cars had software "issue" and would be recalibrated and shipped. Today I am told that there is a part involved that is on back order. It seems they have appropriate parts to keep the line moving so cars can be built and shipped but the early ones like mine have to wait. :mad:

    We have looked all over the country for a car similar to the one I ordered so my dealer can do a swap. There are none in a suitable color combination with the right equipment. I am not a rookie at ordering cars and have never had a problem. However, this has become a royal pain in the @ss. My dealer is bending over backwards to make something happen and is nearly as frustrated as I am. Next step is to see if there is a suitable car ready to ship to another dealer that we can get shipped to us instead.

    Being hard-headed Ford loyal sometimes has its drawbacks.
  • I can only imagine how you feel? I personally plan on treating myself to a new Lincoln of my own after we pay off all our debt. We do have a GMC envoy which was a software disaster. Be patient my friend I'm sure you'll have years of joy once you get your's "free of software issues. i would be getting alittle antious as well though.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Bruce - let me see what I can find out for you. That is ridiculous!
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    I understand your pain brucelinc. I ordered mine February of last year and did not get it till that October. Don’t rush them for a quick delivery. I believe that is what happened to me and I am paying the price now. The mechanics are fine, but I notice that paint job on the inside of the doors was starting to wear much faster than it should. I took it back to the dealer and they are repainting all the doors presently. Sometimes these guys really get me.

    The guy who is in charge of the paint department came to me after viewing the defects and said he would hate to “break the paint”. I guess he thought I was an idiot. He claimed that he could fix the problem, but the color may be off. I then took him to my 2004 Taurus and showed him the inside of the doors with over 60,000 miles (which I assure you looked a whole lot better).

    I told him as a customer the paint is already broke and if that is going to be an issue, then you should consider stripping the paint and repainting the whole vehicle or provide me another new car where the paint is a non-issue. I am sure with that statement and current code painting technology, he will do just fine or else.

    Yes they do have some software issues. It took them over two hours to perform and upgrade on mine. Since the upgrade, it seems to be working much better.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Is the MKS made in the same location as the Edge/MKX (Oakville)? There were some paint problems on some of the Edges as well. I think that plant has a problem in the paint department.
  • Thanks for the words of support, Guys. I do appreciate Ford's desire to turn out a quality product with no defects.

    I ordered my LS prior to the car's introduction and got one of the first ones available. There were several TSBs issued and they even had me bring it back to have the wood trimmed steering wheel and shift knob installed because they were not available at launch. While none of this bothered me much, I am sure that some buyers were turned off by having to take their cars in for adjustments. Ford doesn't want that again.

    No one will tell me exactly what the quality issue is with the early 2010 MKSs but I have the impression that it was related to the ecoboost engine management system. First I was told it was an easy reflash and now they say it requires an updated part. They are really vague about it - I am sure they do not want a headline such as "Ecoboost engines have quality problems!" As much testing that has been done on this engine, I am confident that the issue is relatively minor.

    I thought the MKS and Taurus were built in the same plant. Our 2008 Taurus has a great paint job but it is oxford white and they have had that color almost since the model T went out of production so they should know how to apply that. I know I will go over my MKS with a fine tooth comb when it finally arrives.
  • The MKS is made in chicago. I ordered mine in November of last and it did not get to the dearler until the end of February. I never did get an explanation as to what took so long for the car to get to the dearler. I was told that my car sat on the shipping yard for weeks prior to delivery. My car had a build date of 1/14/09. It arrived at the dealer on 1/27/09. I hope you enjoy you new car.
  • ak103ak103 Posts: 11
    Local dealer has one close to what your ordered, but of course not exactly what you ordered.

  • Thanks! Yes, that is close to what I ordered. There are some out there.

    This morning we found a couple of cars in the Detroit area that would work nicely for me - right colors and equipment. Detroit is less than 600 miles from Minneapolis so my dealer is in the process of pursuing one of them now. Hopefully, one of the dealers out there will work with my dealer and we can make some progress.
  • MKS gets to 60 in 5 seconds flat and 1/4 in 13.6 @104mph.Impressive for a 4,400 lbs car.
  • Yes, that is flat amazing. I have driven a couple of them and they sure don't feel that fast. Of course, I didn't flog an unbroken-in car really hard and they probably loosen up some after more miles. The feel is somewhat like taking off in a commercial jet. You don't really have a feel of speed but in a few seconds it lifts off the runway.

    My dealer tried to obtain a couple of cars for me out of Detroit but both were already sold. The better news is that they just emailed me a tracking sheet. The car I ordered left Chicago yesterday and is on a railcar somewhere between there and Minneapolis. It might even be here by now - I don't know if the train makes many stops along the way or not. Anyway, things are looking up - unless it falls off the railcar somewhere in transit.
  • After a long wait, I finally took delivery of my red candy/camel MKS ecoboost on Saturday.

    I have never had sync or nav and the manual was a bit daunting but I have found the systems to be very user friendly. The sales manager at my dealership spent about an hour with me going over everything including pairing my cell phone and walking me through the capabilities. Kudos to North Country Ford in [non-permissible content removed] Rapids, MN. After playing around with these systems this weekend, I am now completely comfortable with the technology, although there are capabilities that I will likely not use much.

    The ecoboost engine is a jewel. The power is strong and deceptive. The engine is very smooth and quiet - when driven normally, you hardly know it is running. When pressed, the speedometer needle shoots up the dial and there is a growl but still much quieter than my wife's Taurus with the 3.5. Another thing that I like is the extremely quiet cabin. Wind noise is non-existent and you do not hear other traffic. They have done a good job with sound deadening. Did I mention that the power was strong? Oh, yeah!

    I think the MKS is a bit under-rated by some of the press and by many buyers who haven't driven one. The Lincoln name has no prestige at this point. The MKS will not handle like a BMW. It is not as whipped cream soft as a Lexus LS. The looks are not for everyone. Some will say the price is too high considering it shares a platform with the Taurus. While all that may be true, this car is a pretty striking combination of luxury, comfort, performance and technology.

    Some cars do a few things extremely well and sacrifice other things. The MKS does a lot of things pretty dam* well.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    Congratulation brucelinc, I know you waited a long time and I hope you enjoy it. That red will get you noticed like you would not believe. The dealer did the same (Nav instruction and syncing of the phone) for me and after a few reviews I had it down pack. With my wife having the new MKZ, our phone will sync no matter what car we decide to drive. The controls are very similar so she won't have to worry about that. She is a little intimidated by the high shoulders of the MKS so she sticks close to the Z, me I drive either one I want.

    I do not know if they told you this, but another slick feature is the trunk unlock button. If you have the key fob on you there is a hidden button right up under the lip near the rear camera. Just press it and the trunk pops open. From what I understand the dealers were trained on service and support for the new Lincolns. It shows as my paint situation has been taken care of to my satisfaction greatly.

    Do you plan on using 87 octane or premium in yours since you have the ecoboost? You seem to be the kind of person who likes to really move. I was wondering if you could give a report from time to time of the octane difference you experience if you switch around.

    Again congrats and be careful out there. With that red, the PoPo will be looking for ya. Don't worry I won't tell. :shades:
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