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Future Chevrolet Camaro

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Comments

  • casullcasull Posts: 17
    First of all, any information appearing in ANY automotive magazine regarding the new corvette (sting ray, SS, Z07, whatever the designation du jour is) or the 2009 Camaro is pure speculation. NO ONE knows for sure what the specifications of either car will be (let alone the "requirements" to purchase one). I can quote you several magazines that have supposed "information" on the new Camaro and they will all three be different.

    The specifications you quoted earlier sound like they just copied the specifications from the concept assuming it would be the same in the production version. Although i wouldn't rule out a 350ish hp entry level V-8, I HIGHLY doubt we will see any iteration of the LS2 by 2009 as this is supposed to be the last year for it.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,940
    I suppose it is at least possible that the 2009 Camaro might utilize ( something close to ) the 2 drivetrains already announced by GM for the RWD 2008 Pontiac G8.

    The G8, according to Mr. Lutz, is to sell against the DC 300C & friends – strongly suggesting a base in the low 30s for the V8 version.

    That’s with the L76 ( with DoD renamed: AFM ) version of the 6.0L V8 and 362 \ 391 ratings for HP \ TQ ( on regular gas ) – and GM’s 6L80 six speed automatic w/manual shift capability.

    ** IF ** such a drivetrain is available early next year in the G8, and GM \ Pontiac does indeed price it against the 300C ( it looks to me like the 5.7L Hemi V8 currently starts at MSRP $35.5K – but is selling at more like $32.5K )

    The 4.6L \ 300 HP Mustang GT, with only option = 5 speed automatic, MSRP is currently near $27K & selling for near $26K. From what I have see, the top performance Camaro appears more likely to be designed to slot in just below or as direct competition for something like the Ford Shelby GT ( Mustang )

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0704_2007_ford_shelby_gt

    This price level, I think, would allow for that 362 HP V8 and the six speed automatic ( or 6 speed manual ) to be a driveline choice.

    I could be wrong. ( Ask my ex-wife. )

    I hope I am not.

    Cheers,
    - Ray
    Basically enjoying driving a GM vehicle currently, with 6.0L V8 and that 6 speed automatic trans.
    2016 BMW 340i
  • casullcasull Posts: 17
    "This price level, I think, would allow for that 362 HP V8 and the six speed automatic ( or 6 speed manual ) to be a driveline choice."

    I think I see what you are trying to say. I guess that all depends on whether the LS3 will be any more expensive to produce than the L76. Since they are based on the same basic block architecture, my assumption is that the LS3 will not be much more expensive than the L76, so it wouldn't make much sense to offer both unless you artifically inflate the cost of the LS3 based Camaro.

    I don't think GM needs to keep the power ratings close to the Mustang for any reason. If there is a 50-100 hp difference between the Camaro V8 and the Mustang GT, then that is just a bigger buying incentive to choose Camaro instead of Mustang. Unless providing an L76 based powerplant would offer substantial benefits over the LS3 in other areas such as fuel costs or cheaper insurance rates (which I highly doubt it would) then I say just leave it out.
  • lostwrenchlostwrench Posts: 288
    I saw the new Camaro last week at the New York Auto Show. It was a beautiful convertible. I'm starting to save $$$ for it right now.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    From the article:

    "Lutz declared it's too late to stop the Camaro, but said "anything after that is questionable," apparently including Camaro derivatives and the Impala sedan."

    So it appears from this that the Camaro is still a go. But if ever tighter fuel standards/CO2 standards are a big issue, will a BIG V8 still be the 'obvious' choice for a base V8?
  • casullcasull Posts: 17
    This whole thing is a load of crap IMO... It really throws a kink into everything. The whole situation is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction tot he whole "global warming" craze as of late, and I guarantee you that it has more to do with Bush's intentions of cutting the middle east off of the cash cow that is America's addiction to oil.

    Eitherway, I still think the LS3 will appear, but as for a base V8... the L76 is looking like a prime candidate.
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I've been following this Camaro discussion and it seems to emphasize the performance elements of the Camaro -how it compares with the Mustang, etc. I hope that -like the Mustang - a wide range of models are available. I want the smallest and most economical six and automatic. I want it to look like a sports car but want it to drive like my 2006 Impala. Comfort is more important to me than handling. My old 2001 Malibu rode like a Cadillac compared to the 2006 Toyota Solara convertible that I had the misfortune to own for a month until I could dump it. Stiff ride, lots of convertible flex, etc but loved by the car writers and most owners for some obscure reason. What I'm looking for in the Camaro is a sporty convertible that drives like an Impala LT2. I'm probably the Lone Ranger in this discussion group!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    What would be the point? I mean I hope you aren't disappointed when the car is stiff, has a MT!

    What you really want is a convertible STS or CTS!

    :)

    -mike
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I expect that the new Camaro will offer several different engines and suspensions just like the Mustang does. GM will have to tailor the car to different buyers just like Ford does. The old Camaro could have been ordered with a number of options from rental car austere to a performance model. I wouldn't mind a CTS convertible and will look at one when it comes out. If I was just interested in power I'd buy a used Ferrari. Plenty are available and it will beat anything produced by GM hands down.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Well the camaro is a sports car, and I wouldn't expect there to be too many variations of it, similar to the G8 and the GTO. You might get a V6 model but I wouldn't expect there to be a gazzillion different combinations as found on the Rustang.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    It will be interesting to see how it is marketed. The last version of the Camaro came in tame and sporty versions. GM won't want it to compete with the G6 convertible so you are probably right. It may be marketed only as a performance sports car. If so it will die on the vine as soon as gas goes up or "Global Warming" is taken seriously ,which equates to more Governmental control of emissions, gas mileage, etc. You may not like the Mustang but it sells to a wide range of buyers and I think that Camaro will have to do the same. Even back in the days of the 70's GTO Granny could get something that resembled a GTO from a distance but was just a normal compact (an intermediate now).
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I wouldn't count on it. This car will likely be expensive, and fall somewhere just south of the vette. As for gas prices? Doubt it will effect it at all, the people buying these cars will likely not care really. I know a lot of High Performance boats (cigarette boats) that are buying these up, and when you get 1 mpg in your boat, no matter how bad the milage of the sports car it won't effect you.

    -mike
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I guess I'm missing the boat (no pun intended!). I figured that the new Camaro would be priced about like the last version. If it will be in the high 30's or low '40's and will appeal to people who want a bigger Corvette with a back seat, you are totally right. There would be no reason to produce a car for mass consumption and it would certainly have a leg up on the Mustang. It would be in the Corvette category and neither Ford nor Chrysler have any competitive cars. I probably will opt for a CTS convertible but will look around. I have am '03 Deville, '06 Impala, '05 Odyssey (wife's real estate car), and an '86 Silverado 4WD so I'm not really a Corvette customer! I did have a Jag in California in the '60's and spent most of my time at the dealer. Ditto my new '86 Audi -the favorite of the car writers. I also superdetailed a 2000 Mustang convertible and put it in shows but I became paranoid about it and rain, mud, etc. so I sold it and bought the old truck to restore. I'm happy with GM. thanks. Karl
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Karl,

    Yeah I'm definitely thinking that the sticker on this car will be over $30k, probably around $32k->40k. Maybe a 6 cylinder will eak in at $28k. Then you figure with the usual rebates etc looking at street prices 25k->35k for most, with a full blown one well over 40k and closer to 50k for a "special" one. Like the SRT8 Charger full bore is selling for $45k-47k!

    -mike
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,940
    The most current ** GUESSES ** regarding G8 pricing ( including quotes from Mr. Lutz ) strongly suggest the V6 version to start at $25K-ish and the V8 version to start at $30K\$32K-ish.

    If true, I’d expect the Camaro to be at least a couple of grand less, at each engine level, to start. $23K for a V6 & $28-30K for a V8.

    I think that if they price it any higher, they will not be competitive. Because the Mustang V6 and GT V8 will ( still ) be priced substantially lower.

    If you look at a Camaro as a shorter G8, with a smaller back seat & no rear doors ( way oversimplified, but I suspect many people will perceive it thus ) it would likely be perceived as ‘worth less’ – regardless of the exterior styling.

    Just my $2K worth . . .

    - Ray
    Ready for my test drive . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Hmm it would be nice to price it below the price of the GTO but wasn't the MSRP on those $32-33k???

    -mike
  • casullcasull Posts: 17
    "I wouldn't count on it. This car will likely be expensive, and fall somewhere just south of the vette."

    That is interesting becasue it directly contradicts any and all information given by GM or the Camaro community in genral.

    It has been stated and confirmed that the Camaro will be priced within a few hundred of the Mustang. I hardly call that Corvette territory. GM is looking to sell 100k units a year, and I think they know that if it is priced too high that they will not come anywhere near that target. I would expect the top of the line 550 HP version to be in the vette territory, but come on now... why wouldn't it be?

    Even if you account for inflation, a 2002 Z28 still comes in below $30k in 2009 dollars. There is no way a base V8 is going to be anywhere near $35k......
  • casullcasull Posts: 17
    The GTO did not enjoy the economies of scale that the Camaro will have to help lower the price. Not to mention, I would have to think that GM learned their lesson with the GTOs pricing.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Let's hope so. I'm no mustang fan and would love nothing more than to see the Camaro do well. Just trying to be realistic on how GM has been pricing their cars lately, which has been higher than expected for what you get (CTS, GTO, etc)

    -mike
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,940
    "Not to mention, I would have to think that GM learned their lesson with the GTOs pricing. "

    Lutz has said exactly that...
    - Ray
    Waiting ( oh, so very ) patiently...
    2016 BMW 340i
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I would think that GM would put out some word on pricing. I agree that if it is slated to sell 100k units they will have to compete with the Mustang price-wise. I still think that there will be a price leader -something that can be equipped to LOOK like a sports car but still will have a V6, soft ride suspension, and probably a 4 speed automatic. The sales gimmick will be that it is still a Camaro. You can buy a V6 Mustang or get a Cobra. They are still Mustangs and look similar. GM will have a long way to go to beat the Mustang heritage and image. The Mustang Club of America covers ALL Mustangs right up to the newest ones. It didn't use to in the '80's when I had an '83 convertible. The club was only interested in the "classic" models (1964.5 up to 1973). There are Camaro clubs around but nothing like MCA. Don't get me wrong. I am looking forward to buying a Camaro -I've had two Mustangs and sold both of them - but GM needs to appeal to the masses if they expect to sell cars.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Little Rock, ARPosts: 872
    One comment on the appeal of the Camaro...I think the Mustang does a really good job of appealing to both sexes, but from what I've seen the Camaro seems very male skewed. Not that that's a bad thing necessarily, but as you said, you can buy a V6 Mustang (the "secretary's car" back in the day) or a Cobra, but they're all Mustangs and there's a common bond there. I see the Camaro skewing more to the Cobra end of the spectrum in that regard.
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I'm sure they don't sell 100,000 Covettes or Cobras in any given year so if the Camaro is to reach those sales figures they will have to price it in the mid to high 20's for a base model and then appeal to the performance buffs by putting out 35-40k models with V8's etc. They may go with the LS,LT,SS designations with variances in between. The Camaro and Firebird were always male cars. I guess the old Daytona was too. I bought my high school daughter a new '89 red Daytona Turbo and she said that it was a guy's car so all the guys were jealous of her. She got more dates when she had the '83 Mustang.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Little Rock, ARPosts: 872
    Maybe armed with that info I can convince my wife that I should get a Camaro instead of a Malibu in a couple of years...my oldest daughter turns 16 in 2009, so if she were to borrow my car to go out on the weekends, she would intimidate guys in the Camaro and they'd leave her alone. As a concerned father I think that'd be the logical thing to do. :)
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I think that what is important is the safety of the automobile. I was ressurecting my past when I bought my daughter the cars like I that I had when I was a kid -'56 Ford convertibles, etc. Send a note to me and I'll continue this discussion. It is getting off topic.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Little Rock, ARPosts: 872
    I'll try to bring it back on topic then, and tie in what you're saying. I've always been a fan of the '67 Mustang fastback, and I've often thought it would make sense for me to buy such a car, and basically drive it forever. I figure even if I drive it and the engine goes out on it, I just drop in a new engine and the car would still hold it's value...whereas buying a new Mustang you know the car will depreciate. However, it doesn't take too much driving of an antique car like that to realize as a daily driver there's something to be said for things like 4-wheel disc brakes, good air conditioning, ABS, air bags, crumple zones. etc. etc. That's where I think cars like the upcoming Camaro that conjure up thoughts of the old car, but are thoroughly modern in terms of safety and reliability make more sense.

    I inherited a 1980 El Camino last year, and as fun as it might be to tinker with and drive around, it really is scary how unsafe that truck feels versus my 2000 Impala. Cars have gotten much better over the years, and I'd much rather turn my kid loose in the Impala than I would the El Camino (even though the El Camino is less powerful and barely capable of breaking the speed limit).

    So if I have a choice of buying a restored '69 Camaro for $30k or a brand new '09 for the same price, I'd get the new one. On the other hand, if I had enough money that the car was going to be more of a weekend ride than a daily driver, I'd might be tempted to buy them both! :)
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    I meant to send me a personal email. My address is on the profileand I'll talk about suitable cars for teens. I had a 2000 Mustang convertible as a weekend/show car last year. I became paranoid about it -refused to drive it in the rain, superdetailed it, etc. I now have an 86 Silverado 4x4 short bed I feel the same way about .Unlike your El Camino though it feels very safe and anybody who hits it will come off second best lack of crumple zones not withstanding. Getting back to the last generation Camaro, it is night and day better than the old 70's models. I remember the old '78 Firebirds and Camaros that shook you to pieces at a stoplight. They needed to rev up to 3,000 RPM or so before they smoothed out. The folks who morn the passing of the muscle cars probably don't remember this quirk but I do and I look forward to the new model. As I said earlier I want the base convertible with a V6, hopefully a 4 speed automatic (the lag on the Fords and Mercury 6 speeds is annoying) and a Bose stereo.
  • casullcasull Posts: 17
    I know this is going to veer off topic, but if for some unfortunate reason BOSE does become the upgraded stereo option, do yourself a favor and save your money! Bose audio components are cheap and flimsy. They have done a fabulous job of developing a miraculous marketing ploy convincing consumers that they are top notch premium equipment, when, for half of the money, you can get components that sound twice as good.

    "Friends don't let friends buy BOSE"
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Posts: 299
    Frankly I tend to agree after last wekend. I have the Bose system in my '06 Impala and both the standard stereos in the cheap Mazda 3 I rented in Chicago last Saturday and a friend's new Fusion sound much better than mine. The Fusion is really nice -great depth of sound -the whole car sounds like a speaker. My '03 Deville also sounds better and it only has the standard stereo. I'll take your advice. The Bose system sounds shrill even with the treble turned down. I had Bose Acoustimass speakers at home and they didn't have good base even with the base module on the floor. I didn't try out an Impala with standard sound but from what I hear there isn't much difference between that and the Bose. The Fusion was great though. GM needs to get with the program.
This discussion has been closed.