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Rank the Big 4 Ford, GM, Toyota, Chrysler. Best? Worst?



  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,458
    Makes the 1,500 dollar loss I took selling a used Range Rover on Saturday look pathetic.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,612
    The deal in 1998 was a complete fairytale failure they knew it and this was their solution....dump the thing for any cost.

    Now, what do you think the equity firm will do to make the best cars in the world?

    My money says they will slash and burn. Let's see the new management team that will head this new enterprise. They have a huge task to turn this baby around and create shareholder value.

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    Wonder what this means to future product like the much anticipated Challenger?
  • wtd44wtd44 Posts: 1,211
    ...Two Grand Cherokees and a Concorde; 2007, 2004, 1996. I'm hopeful for the future. :shades:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    Those new Wranglers must be flying off the lots, I see more and more of them everywhere I go. And they ain't cheap by anymeans... Even the Compass appears to be selling well. As is the Dodge Nitro and new Sebring. So there are a few brightspots in the Chrysler lineup.

    I'm rooting for them here. :shades:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The point is that if they actually were built with exceptional materials and quality that is bulletproof not the crappy product you get today, then sales would be hard to stop.

    Oh, they'd stop alright - because the price-points would put them in the luxury category, out of reach of their intended victims, er, I mean customers.....

    Ford saw this with the Jaguar S-Type/Lincoln LS fraternal twins - the quality of the stuff in the Lincoln was Jaguar, but they couldn't sell them at the price they needed to, because they were Lincolns, and not all that good looking either.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,612
    I hear you. I had an '03 LS great car and not do good looking. And residual dropped like the value of Chrysler Corp.!

    That is the issue with the US. Out side of the late '60's and some here and there nice looking models, the seeds were sown for the results we see today.

    There is no soul in Detroit anymore!

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,612
    Not so fast....

    Take this car company, please

    "The sale of Chrysler will be a wrenching but much-needed step for the U.S. auto industry," says Jim Ostroff in Chrysler, General Motors, and Ford need to slash the cost of their unionized work forces to "compete with foreign brands," and Cerberus will be a "catalyst for change." If the United Auto Workers refuse to "scrap" costly health-care and pension benefits, Cerberus "will simply walk away, leaving Chrysler's future in grave doubt."

    The official line is that Cerberus is paying $7.4 billion for 80 percent of Chrysler, says Allan Sloan in The Washington Post (free registration required), but hardly any of the money is going to DaimlerChrysler. In fact, Daimler is pumping so much money back into the struggling U.S. automaker that it is essentially paying Cerberus to "cart Chrysler away" like "an old junker." Daimler paid $36 billion to buy Chrysler in 1998, but that turned out to be one of the all-time "deals from hell."

    I would continue to say away from Chrysler for now...

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    is a smokescreen. Of that money, most goes to Chrysler rather than Daimler. Between the money promised to Chrysler by Daimler and Cerberus for various financial obligations and future product development, Daimler is actually paying Cerberus more than $600 million to take Chrysler off their hands. Read the press release. And good riddance to bad rubbish is what they're saying back in Germany. Their shareholders over there have been screaming bloody murder for well over a year about the "Chrysler division".

    I notice Dodge is now running this fairly pathetic TV ad promoting their fuel economy? Really? Fuel economy at Dodge? Apparently the 28 mpg rating of the Charger V-6 and the 32 mpg of the Caliber is worth celebrating. Not in my fact it perfectly highlights one of the reasons Dodge and Chrysler are in a bad slump, no fuel-efficient models.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • wtd44wtd44 Posts: 1,211
    Cerberus is not a pack of fools. Look forward to seeing Chrysler leading a dying American industry into the path of sustaining health.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I agree, and Cerberus is all about profit - they don't give a rip about making cars - so I expect to see Jeep sold off for some good bucks, and some of the other non-car Chrysler divisions, like Thomas Built School Busses, etc., and what is left of Chrysler, Dodge will be absorbed by some other car firm in the world who wants a dealer network and some of the plants or technology.

    Chrysler is on a respirator AGAIN!! Ford is in intensive care, but change is happening. What will be the end result of Ford remains to be seen.

    GM is "reputedly" back on track. However, I think that's a smoke screen. There is no way you can turn that Elephant back up on its feet overnight.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Might be in profit made but I won't buy another ugly, over priced, over hyped Toyota. :sick:

    My next new vehicle will either be a T&C, Grand Caravan, or Odyssey. :shades:
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,769
    September sales were announced for the automakers. Total industry sales in September ran at a seasonally adjusted rate of 16.23 million units compared with 16.6 million, down 2.2% from September last year. Read a quick recap in North & South

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  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Thought this topic could really use an update considering all the recent problems Toyota has faced both with their models and on the corporate level!

    I understand this is entirely subjective and opinion based butt I am making my rankings based on a whole bunch of factors to contribute to their overall performance which are, market share, current sales, amount of recalls, resale values, customer service/support, corporate philosophy/structure and quality/reliability of models

    1) Ford
    2) Toyota
    3) GM
    4) Chrysler

    how would you guys/girls rank these big 4 automakers based on the current auto industry environment and market??
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    edited February 2010
    Well, based on the current auto industry environment and market:

    1) Ford
    2) GM
    3) Toyota
    4) Chrysler

    Ford, though I don't really care for most of their products, is having a resurgence.
    GM is slowly coming back, but they've got that bailout stigma.
    Toyota's reputation is being totally trashed, fairly or unfairly.
    Chrysler is pretty much an automotive zombie.

    Now, as far as my personal preferences go:

    1) GM
    2) Chrysler
    3) Ford
    4) Toyota
  • berriberri Posts: 7,741
    My prediction for reliabilty over 75K miles is still:

    (pretty close to each other)
    1. Toyota
    2. Honda (but any repairs will be expensive ones)
    3. Ford
    (a small bit of a gap then)
    4. GM

    (a BIG gap)

    5. Chrysler
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Is there even really a Chrysler left?

    Time to change the topic to ranking just the 3: Ford, GM, and Toyota. And I would definitely put Ford on top. I may own my first new Ford ever if the Fiesta turns out mostly as promised later this year.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Had enough of the Impreza?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Oh heck no, the OBS will be with me for the next 10 years, I love that thing.

    I think the topic here is large automakers, which Subaru certainly isn't.

    I would like to see Honda in the mix too, though, which I would certainly rate above Toyota. But I'm not sure I would rate it above Ford. Have to think about that one.....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • berriberri Posts: 7,741
    What keeps me from putting Honda on top is that when there are problems they seem to be big dollar ones like A/C systems, trannies, VCM or steering racks. Those can cost more than the nickle and dime stuff like sensors. Otherwise, I think Honda does put out some nice vehicles.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I would like to see Honda in the mix too, though, which I would certainly rate above Toyota. But I'm not sure I would rate it above Ford. Have to think about that one.....

    You keep talking like that, and you might have to change your handle. :P
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,137
    edited February 2010
    I'd probably have to go with (turns out to be the top 7)...

    1) (tie) Honda/Acura-Nissan/Infiniti
    2) Ford
    3) GM
    4) BMW/Mini
    5) (tie) VW/Audi-Daimler-Benz/Smart
    6) Toyota
    7) Chrysler
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    GM ABOVE BMW/Mini?????? No way! And I think Honda is headed down the same tubes so recently flushed by Toyota, but for now I would rate it above Nissan. OTOH, I woukd rate Infiniti WAY above Acura.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I noticed at the DC auto show. Guess whose cars had the best paint jobs? The smoothest, most orange-peel-free paints? It wasn't BMW. Wasn't Benz. Wasn't anything to come out of Japan.

    Believe it or not, it was CHRYSLER!! It made me wonder if the cars were specially prepped for the show. Normally those overhead lights in the convention center will show up every little detail, and the smoothest paint jobs are usually on one of the handfull of over-restored antiques, and last year I remember the Chrysler products looking pretty bad.

    Next time I see a 2010 Chrysler product, I'll have to look at it closely to see if the paint is really that good on the "street" versions.
  • Have you been in the new, new BMWs lately? While I won't call them Carbage they are not nearly as good as they once were and not worth the price BMW is charging.

    I have 2010, 2008 and a 2003 5 series models on the lot now. You can see a steady decline in build quality from the 2010 to the 2008 and a big drop in driving feel and build quality to the 2003 even though it has 55,000 miles. Sure the 2003 has a couple of broken cup holders and some scratches and dings but those are just normal wear items that can be fixed easily. The basic structure of the 2003 5-Series is just better then the newer models.

    It drives better in every way then the newer models. Oh and most importantly I can turn on the radio of the 2003 without having to open up the owners manual or struggle with iDrive. This morning one of the guys couldn't figure out how to put the 2010 in gear because it has BMW's stupid new gear shifter. I asked him if he was pushing both buttons and pulling back and he said he was but maybe he didn't pus down hard enough on the button I don't know. Two different people couldn't get it into gear. I had to walk over and screw around with it while reading the instructions on the nav screen.

    Just stupidity.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,129
    1) Ford
    2) Toyota
    3) GM
    4) Chrysler

    Smarty, I agree with your rankings.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Inspite of the recent Toyota recalls-which are mass hysteria and stupidity- folks miss the point that Toyota still is making profits.Even if the recall costs 2 billion,Toyota can make up and the fact is Toyota cars are amongst the best out there. Lot of credit to Ford,but it still has a debt of $35 billion.. when will they overcome that and get in the black.. I dont know-very very tough.
    And GM and Chrysler are gone cases . 80 billion in debt..How can they ever make up??Answer-Never. We are just prolonging their agony by giving them tax money with no hopes of returns.
    The ratings in reality without any bias -based on profits,quality and dependability are :
    1. Toyota
    I am not including luxury car makers here like Lexus/MB/Acura.

    And the most over rated company out there is Nissan. Nissan is behind Mitsubishi in my opinion:shades:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    edited February 2010
    My thinking is that all of the Big 6 have made most of their vehicles dull as dishwater now, with Toyota leading that trend. Ford is the only one with a bit of pizzazz, and even then it's not much, but I have hopes that they will fan that tiny spark in the next year or two. :-)

    As a car enthusiast I'm not much into profit margins because they don't make more desirable cars - the proof is in the pudding - check your local dealer's lot tomorrow if you want to see (doesn't matter which brand dealer you visit, among the Big 6).

    I'm struggling to think of any automaker I would give much more than a C- to right now.....

    On a sidenote, I'm going to have to start calling them the Big 6.5 or something, as Chrysler doesn't really qualify to be in the Big 6 any more, and Hyundai sort of does, just going by annual sales volume.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    A reporter is looking to speak to consumers on why they are not considering a Chrysler vehicle. This can be a Chrysler ,Dodge, Jeep or Ram. Please send your daytime phone number to by Thursday, March 11, 2010.

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  • 1) GM (because of increasing reliability, wide range of options, and overall market cap)
    2) Ford (also increasing reliability, well equipped fleet and well worth the price)
    3) Toyota (very large company and decent convenience vehicles, but decreasing reliability)

    100) Chrysler (why the hell are they on this list?)
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