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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited March 2010
    I once sold our Peugeot Diesel Station Wagon to a couple.

    It was summertime and they left our house around 8:00. They stopped to eat and when they went back to the car it was dark.

    After trying to turn on the headlights for several minutes, he finally called me.

    How the &%$# do I turn on the $%%#@ headlights??

    As I recall it was something like a four step procudure that involved the turn signal stalk.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    verdugo....whatever the outcome is in all of this, I don't think I've ever seen a car company botch 50+ years of building brand equity, a quality and safety reputation so badly, and so quickly.

    It took General Motors at least a decade to do that. Toyota did it in less than 90 days. And, they keep shooting themselves in the foot, with no end in sight.

    Onto other car sales (buying) topics, I'm thinking that this weekend I'm going to pull the trigger on something. Either an Infiniti G, an Acura TL, or a recently emerged dark horse, a Taurus SHO.

    Putting my offer sheets together tonight.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    whatever the outcome is in all of this, I don't think I've ever seen a car company botch 50+ years of building brand equity, a quality and safety reputation so badly, and so quickly.

    It took General Motors at least a decade to do that. Toyota did it in less than 90 days. And, they keep shooting themselves in the foot, with no end in sight.


    I agree with you again. There will be case studies about how not to do crisis management. They will point to Toyota. I just hope that the Big 2 1/2 can get their act together and use this to their advantage.

    Am I the only one who thinks "At least Mack is not here to see this"? It'd break his heart. He really believed in Toyota.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288

    Onto other car sales (buying) topics, I'm thinking that this weekend I'm going to pull the trigger on something. Either an Infiniti G, an Acura TL, or a recently emerged dark horse, a Taurus SHO.


    Awesome! Based on all your posts, I think it'll be a TL unless the dealer screws it up.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I'm with you isell. Probably a little bit there but nothing like it is being blown up to be.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,785
    All nice choices, GG. That SHO is a pretty nice car...its a win no matter which one you end up buying...

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, I've been thinking about Mackabee and about how he would hate this.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    All are nice cars but as often as you go through cars, think about resale value and there is only one clear choice there and you know what it is.

    But don't let that be your main criteria. You have to like the car!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Who is to say that some terrible news, real or imangined won't hit the news tomorrow that all Korean cars can suddenly explode without warning?

    Personally O think there is a problem with Toyotas that does go back several years. This is not all driver errors. If this was happening with Hyundai (or GM or Ford or Chrysler) how many people would be claiming that it just proves that those cars are bad. I think Toyota is being handled with care compared to what would happen if it was another car maker.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    It was an elderly lady so how do we know that the salesman didn't go through a complete delivery process and she just did an involuntary brain dump of the information?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Well we don't because neither you or I were there during the delivery. But that's how the story goes.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It may have been a " C-3" delivery.

    C- the car?

    C- The keys?

    C- Ya!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,456
    I flew to Chicago to pick up a car for my wife... Guy picks me up at the airport..we go back to his lot... look the car over (less than a year old, 8K miles), and do the paperwork..

    30 minutes later, I'm pulling out with a 5-hour drive ahead of me.. Car has a 1/4 tank, so I pull over just a couple of miles away to fill up..

    And.... can't get the fuel door open... Fits flush, so I figure there is a pull switch (Just like a Honda)... I look, and I look... ten minutes is a long time to sit at the pump... Finally, get in the glovebox and pull out the manual.

    Turns out, the door is spring-loaded... you just push it in and it pops open... .but, first, the door have to all be unlocked via the central locking button... 20 minutes to get gas... :surprise:

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  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    I was looking up resale values, and this is what I have found on the alg site.

    Mainstream Brand Residual Value Rankings

    1. SUBARU
    2. HONDA
    3. MAZDA
    4. NISSAN
    5. TOYOTA
    6. VOLKSWAGEN
    7. SUZUKI
    8. HYUNDAI
    9. FORD

    Only brands above the industry average were ranked.

    Luxury Brand Residual Value Rankings

    1. ACURA
    2. LEXUS
    3. AUDI
    4. INFINITI
    5. LAND ROVER
    6. BMW
    7. MERCEDES BENZ
    8. PORSCHE

    Only brands above the luxury average were ranked.

    Luxury brand ranking doesn't make sense. How could Audi and Land Rover have better resale value than BMW?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,942
    Turns out, the door is spring-loaded... you just push it in and it pops open

    What kind of car was that? I have never seen that method for the gas door on anything I have ever driven.

    On another funny getting gas moment. Anyone ever driven a Dodge "Sprinter" van? Good luck finding the gas filler on it, its inside the driver's door jamb :surprise:

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    And.... can't get the fuel door open...

    I grew up in Mexico where every gas station is full service. I never even gotten out of the car at a gas station. Somebody in NJ would have the same experience, but when they go out of state, they would have to pump it themselves.

    So my freshmen year in college I rent a car and go to the gas station. Couldn't figure out how to open the fuel door. Just like you, I had to go ask the attendant for help. :blush:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Honda Fits and Crosstours work the same way.

    We have Fits in our rental fleet and we always show the people renting them how they work.

    I'm glad you didn't take a screwdriver to it. I'll bet that has happened!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited March 2010
    That list doesn't sound that accurate. Toyots have much better resale value than Nissan and Mazda or at least they did before their recent troubles.

    BMW's are softer than you may think. All of the luxury cars seem to bring way less than book values at the auctions.

    I'm surprised Land Rover isn't lower on that list.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,785
    I'm surprised that Suzuki rates above average. Really surprised, actually...

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    The only reason I knew about the Sprinter van gas cap in the door frame is that I was watching a guy I know who has one (he's a musician with a band that tours the US and Canada a couple of hundred days a year) nad he was showing the thing off and pointed it out.

    Prior to getting the Sprinter which gets 20 mpg on diesel he'd been using old buses. He's really big on the Sprinter!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,942
    We have a Sprinter at work. They use it for small deliveries and such. I used it recently to pick up a bunch of fixtures. It gobbles up so much stuff and is comfortable to drive.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    ALG ratings are just that . They dont reflect real world values.. I remember they had rated the Sonata as the midsize sedan with the highest residual value. More than the Camcordimas... :sick:

    And no way does Mazda and Nissan have higher values than Toyota.. Except for Altima,all Nissans depreciate horribly.. And with mazda -may be the Miata is the exception.. ;)

    But must say,the highest resale value I have seen is for the Honda CRV..Damn,it depreciates so slowly.. BMW and MB have poor resale values. I was checking online for used MB E550 and an 06 with 45k miles goes for around 22k...The initial MSRP is I think 70k plus.. Ouch , that hurts.. Lexus I feel has the highest resale followed by Acura and Infiniti.. :shades:

    A general rule of thumb is that reliable cars depreciate better than unreliable ones irrespective of the original MSRP.. Not 100% but much more often than not !!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Me too. As used cars they are nearly impossible to get rid of.

    Same with Mitshibishi. Nobody seems to know what they even are.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, with CRV's you might as well throw the books away.

    We go to the Honda auctions and have to pay a lot more than book for the nice ones and that's all we buy.

    People come looking for one two or three years old thinking they will save thousands of dollars and I'll often ending up just selling them a new one.

    Civics aren't much different.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,488
    what'd you get? cmon & tell us? Year make model miles? inquiring minds want to know.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    20 minutes to get gas...

    Reminds me of the news story about the young thieves who stole an old car at a gas station while the driver stepped away for a minute.

    They found it later with no gas. I guess the thieves couldn't figure out how to put gas in it. I can't remember if it was one of those old caddys with the filler neck behind the tail light or one of many cars with it behind the license plate. Heh-heh.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    They found it later with no gas. I guess the thieves couldn't figure out how to put gas in it.

    Why would they bother to put gas in it when they can just get a new car with gas for free? :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    edited March 2010
    verdugo/ti....thanks!

    We'll see how this goes. On the Infiniti, I've got a VPP number. Right now, they're offering employee pricing for all suppliers until the end of the month. Great prices. So, pretty easy to put a number on my offer sheet. On the SHO, I have a friend who works at the local Ford plant as an engineer. He's given me an "X-Plan" number. That one's easy to put a number on, too...right around invoice less a $1,000 factory rebate. Still, these are pretty scarce. Allegedly, Ford has limited production on them. Don't know why that is, except maybe their turbo V6s are being spread across too many models (Lincoln, Edge, Sho), and they don't have the capacity to make as many of them.

    The Acura is a little tougher. The new body style on the TL is a love it/hate it sort of thing. I fall into the former category. But, their sales of the new TL have been down.....dealer stock levels are up. So, I got real skinny on my offer sheet for them based on that. Plus, they have a $2,250 dealer incentive on their tech models (I'm interested in a SH AWD w/technology package). Dealers seem to be trying to hold about $1,000 of margin over invoice (but after deducting the $2,250 in dealer cash). So, after all the figures are done, I'm offering about $100 over invoice less the dealer incentives + $100 doc fee added in, +$35 license fees, + taxes (which is 6.25% in my area).

    No finance incentives as I'm not going to finance.

    I've limited my shopping area, for all the above cars, to a 100 mile radius. G37s are in abundance. Just color choices are the only thing I need to find. Plus, they all seem to be equipped like I want. Shouldn't have a hard time finding one that I like. VPP pricing makes it easy, too.

    The SHO......pretty slim pickins'. There's only one dealer in my general area that has more than one in stock There is a dealership about 35 miles of me that has 6 of them, though. I'll visit him tonight (actually, the dealer principal is a "her"). X-plan pricing, less rebate, makes it "easy-peazy" if I find one I like.

    The Acura....we'll see. I think I'm going to get some pushback on my offer. That's OK. We'll see who wants to be aggressive.

    On a separate note, was getting new tires for the Tahoe last night at Costco. While I'm waiting around, another gentleman was waiting around getting tires on his car, too (small Lexus SUV). We struck up a conversation.

    "How do you like your Tahoe? What year is it? "

    "It's an '07. About 45K miles. It's been great. Had to replace a battery after I had it for about a year. But, that was done under warranty. Been totally trouble free since then. MPG is pretty dismal. But, that's the nature of the beast. How do you like your Lexus?"

    "Not bad. Not really a robust tow vehicle, though."

    "You tow? What?"

    "Well, I've got an 18' fishing boat. The Lexus is supposed to be able to tow it. It's just a bit overwhelmed in doing so. How'd the Tahoe do with the heavy snows we had?"

    "I used to tow double Seedoos. Tahoe didn't flinch. I haven't towed with it in a couple of years, though. I've not driven every SUV out there, but I can't imagine a better tow/snow vehicle."

    Tires are done. I'm getting in my vehicle and he leans in...."this is nice inside".

    "Thanks, Yeah....I'm not sure Chevy makes another option you could possibly put on this."

    "Ever think about selling it?"

    "Everything's for sale, at a price. I've taken really good care of it. 5K mile oil changes whether it needed it or not. All scheduled maintenance done on time or before. Got all the receipts, too. Never wrecked or repainted. Had it since new. Why?"

    "I've been kind of thinking about getting something a bit bigger. What kind of price you looking for?"

    "Truth is, I don't know. But, if you're really interested, let me do some research and get back to you.....and, by the way, it's got brand spanking new tires on it."

    "Hop in." He gets in the passenger side. I show him all the gee gaws....power folding rear seats, power liftgate (which he really likes), rear DVD (which I've never used), etc. I suggest we go for a little spin. We go around the block for about 10 minutes after he tells the Costco tire folks he'll be right back.

    "Wow, this rides better than my Lexus."

    We end up exchanging phone numbers. I get home and my phone rings. It's my Costco friend. He's supposed to come over tonight to do a test drive.

    Who knows....this may turn into something, or it may turn into nothing. But, I have to figure a price on the Tahoe, just in case.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,587
    Fortunately for me the most value either of my Toyotas could lose would be about $4K because that's all they're worth.

    Unless the gas pedal sticks at the wrong time. ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,587
    edited March 2010
    Mainstream Brand Residual Value Rankings

    I just saw this the other day. Sonata has a higher resale value than Toyota or Fusion in Canada
    Hyundai vehicles now have a substantial residual (trade-in) value. The Sonata, for example, has a residual of 53 per cent that is higher than Camry or Fusion at 49 per cent each.

    An excellent article that praises the new Sonata, and really makes the new Sonata well worth considering; 2011 Sonata

    image

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I know looks are subjective but I think (and a lof others think) that Acura ruined the look of their entire line when they went to the "beak" front end styling.

    Great cars though!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The residual doesn't mean a thing.

    A high residual equates to lower (and more attractive) lease payments!

    They will pay the price as have many others (including Honda) at the end of the lease when they bring thousands of dollars less than the residual.

    Or maybe the market is different in Canada?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    isell....to say that Acura's new styling "theme" throughout their lineup has been polarizing, is being kind.

    You either like it. Or, you hate it. Doesn't seem to be any in-between.

    That said, I think Honda/Acura is making some of the best built cars....anywhere. Something I'm sure you'll agree with.

    Gotta say, over the last 5 years, from what I've noticed, tremendous progress has been made regarding build quality, and quality of materials with just about every manufacturer....that includes the Korean brands.

    The only brand I've noticed that's fallen has been Toyota. Go sit in one of them and you'll notice it, almost immediately. Mentioned the car show I attended locally a few weeks ago. But, I found the build and quality of materials in the Camry to be shocking....mismatched interior panels....big gaps....budget materials, etc. Toyota's cost cutting was readily apparent to me.

    I know you and I disagree regarding Toyota. They used to be the benchmark. No longer. But, that's just the way I see it as a consumer.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I totally agree. Toyota has not received harsh treatment compared to what they deserve. Had this happened to GM, Obama would have closed all of the plants and dealerships. After all, he is the real CEO of GM. :mad: :sick:

    Richard
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I have noticed that also. I don't think I would ever buy a used Honda, I would always opt for the new one, and have owned several. IMO it is just the opposite for so called "luxury cars". I don't mind letting someone else take the first hit of those.

    As far as Suzuki being a good value, sorry, I just don't believe it.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "It was an elderly lady..."

    The elderly get blamed too much for no longer having any brains. Many of us are smarter now than we once were. Besides, young people are just as bad. They often do "an involuntary brain dump of the information". They often suffer from the "I know it all" syndrome.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    The fuel door on my '08 Chrysler convertible also fits flush. You just push on it and it opens.

    Richard
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Gotta disagree with you there Richard. Obama would never do anything to hurt the UAW.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,587
    The residual doesn't mean a thing.
    A high residual equates to lower (and more attractive) lease payments!


    But, as I understand it, the residual value is what you expect the car to be worth at the end of a lease....in 3 years time. If they are making up phony residual values, then you would be paying a very low lease rate for the car over 3 years, and the dealer is going to take a big hit at the end of the lease.
    Why would Hyundai, make up high residual values? I don't even think they push leasing in most ads. I am willing to learn something new.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Driver, just a guess on my part, but hyundai is making a big push to increase market share and is willing to take a calculated hit on the new 2011 sonata to do so. The beancounters and marketers have a 3 year strategy that may or may not work.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited March 2010
    I can understand mfgs. fiddling with residual values in their lease calculations but I thought the actual residual values were determined by independent agencies and actual results...in other words, the market.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited March 2010
    Residuals are set by the manufacturers (or leasing company). Some are optimistic, some are more conservative.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    If they are making up phony residual values, then you would be paying a very low lease rate for the car over 3 years, and the dealer is going to take a big hit at the end of the lease.

    The dealer is not going to take a hit. The finance company (or their insurers) will take the hit.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    edited March 2010
    ALG residuals are used by most banks and some captive finance companies to set lease values. Manufacturers may use artificially higher residuals thru their own finance arm to help sell vehicles.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Why would they bother to put gas in it when they can just get a new car with gas for free?

    lol Great point and I'm guessing that is exactly what they did. ;) Although they probably waited until after the driver filled it.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    That's true. Maybe he would just get them all jobs at Chrysler or Ford. :P

    Richard
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Actually, we don't disagree. I just don't like to bash my competition in these forums although I know I sometimes do in an offhand way.

    I've noticed the same things you have. Not the same product as in the past.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    GG,

    Great detail on your rationale for choosing the car. I really like the Taurus, but it's too big for us. My dad had the 500, and he loved it except for the underpowered engine. Of course you won't have that problem with the SHO :)

    Good luck with the Tahoe!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's correct.

    ALG is making a guess and given Huyndai's history of dismal resale values, I think they are being overally optimistic.

    The manufactures guess to to an extent. They want to move a bunch of cars so the set the residuals high and hope that three years down the road that they won't get burned. They sometimes mortage tomorrow for today's sales.

    The domestics REALLY have been burned in the recent past.

    Even Honda has done this but not nearly as bad.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    And if you are wondering about LRs residual ranking - go drive a new Sport or LR4 and you will see why. Also, as I mentioned before, the cars are a lot different from the past in reliability, roadability and even capability.Don't bash what you haven"t experienced.
This discussion has been closed.