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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Honda probably makes the most accurate lease residual estimates along with BMW.. :P
Being a LR sales rep,it would be expected that you will support LR..Accepted! :P
And no, no one is dwelling in the past..Even present day LR`s are unreliable with poor build quality with hard plastics and panel gaps and poor fit and finish. Regarding driving pleasures,Infiniti has some good sport sedans with good reliability.
German cars had poor reliability b`cos of inferior materials used especially by BMW in order to compete with lexus on price.. Also doesn`t mean -if it has a good driving feel and experience it should be unreliable... No relation at all.. It is also not easy to design a very comfy ,plushy,quiet ,very reliable sedan with lots of gadgets and tech like a Lexus ..So goes both ways. Poor Reliability is not an excuse for driving experience.
Also that LR was british is a misnomer-- It was owned by Ford for the last decade and now by Tata Motors.. So it is a Tata Rover now.. made by the same company that makes the cheapest car,the Nano !!
ALG lease residual ratings -- well they show the highest ratings for Honda and Toyota and LR is absolutely way down.. SO even ALG says that LR have poor residual values :P
Here`s the ALG link:
https://www.alg.com/DepreciationRatings
I didn't mention Land Rover residuals nor did I wonder about them.
And, I didn't bash them.
I'll state my feelinga again just to make you you know for sure how I feel.
I think they are incredible cars like no other in many ways. They can do things and go places no other car can.
You keep saying that the problems of the past (which were considerable) have been solved and I have no reason to doubt you. Only time will be the judge of that.
In the meantime, unless they are under warranty, we will continue to wholesale the trade ins we take in. We have been burned so many times in the past when we have taken a chance on one we will wait and see.
Heck, I almost cried when we had to distroy a beautiful Disco during the C4C program. What a waste. IT was beautiful inside and out and it ran well.
My wife's '07 X3 had a 65% residual value according to bmwfs. We're paying $471.67 per month for 3 years/45K miles on a BMW SUV that stickered for $40K.
Try getting a deal like that from BMW now.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
My best friend - who also recently bought a loaded 2009 LTZ Tahoe & loves it (he hated domestics as much as I did) was recently in a new, loaded up Taurus (not an SHO) & commented how rich and beautiful and well screwed together the interior was. He said it was pretty close to ergonomically perfect.
I have to tell you, that Honda & BMW are the 2 manufacturers that I personally benchmark other cars against. I'd give the domestics a serious look (a loaded Fusion V6 looks sweet). Something I can't say about Toyota (has nothing to do with their current problems). Even Hyundai - That new Sonata looks like a true competitor. I'd give one with a turbocharged I4 a look.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
All the engineering and design is done in England. In fact, when the LR3/RR Sport were developed (they share a chassis), Ford wanted them built on a Ford chassis. LR said it could not be done and keep our brand heritage. Ten Ford popped a check and the car was built on a unique LR chassis. It is a unibody with a full frame underneath - torsional strength plus low center of gravity to combine with the benefits of a unibody. All Tata has done is to invest in R&D and new product. In about a year the LRX becomes a reality.
German cars had poor reliability b`cos of inferior materials used especially by BMW
What? Have you driven a 750IL? Or a 5 series? And if I wanted a GM ride or a Toyota (of which I own 2 so I can afford my motorcycle habit) on steroids I might look at a Lexus. They are nice comfy cars who anybody can build. But Lexus (and Toyota) have lost most of their neat capabilities of the past.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Where do you get this stuff? Can you provide us with a citation? Probably not - you're just making it up as you go along.
Have you ever owned a BMW? I do, & my wife drives a Lexus, so I'm in a much better position than you are to comment about the quality of BMW's materials. And as I've told you before, my BMW has been every bit as reliable as my wife's 2 Lexuses, but you never pay any attention to facts that don't square with your theories.
You've made these sweeping, baseless statements before, & Roadburner, who has forgotten more about BMWs than you'll ever know, has demonstrated conclusively that you're wrong. After that, you're quiet for a few weeks, but then you start all over again, making accusations that you can't prove. Don't you learn anything from reading other people's posts?
lr.....I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I sat in the new LR entry level model at the local car show. Pretty big difference between the old entry level, and the new ones, across the board.....all for the better.
That said, I've only ridden in one LR. It was when the SUV boom was really big back in the early 2000s, when people were buying them for status, and not their capabilities.
Since that time, we've gone through $4+ for a gal of regular.....car company bankruptcies, models being phased out, disappearance of entire brands, etc. SUVs, while not gone, aren't nearly as popular as they were a few years ago. I'd say resale for the entire SUV segment has taken a hit, and still hasn't recovered, at least not fully.
I do believe Ford was good for LR, since they upped their quality quotient.
Speaking of SUVs, my Costco acquaintance came to test drive my Tahoe this evening. Showed him everything. We were out test driving it for about a 1/2 hour....suburban streets, highway, even took it on a non-paved trail (which we shouldn't have been on as it was private property). He liked it, as best I could tell. I'd say something about the Tahoe, and it seemed his only reply was "uh-huh".
We finished up back at my house. He gave it a couple more walk arounds, touched all the buttons, tried all the features. Finally, I asked him....
"So, what do you want to do now?"
He asked me the price. I told him $25.5 K (almost exactly 1/2 of the original MSRP). He offered $22K. I said, "we may as well just stop now. We're too far apart."
His reply...."what's the least you'd take?"
"Tonight? Right now? $24,750, cash." I reminded him again that it has brand new tires....and every bit of written service history that goes with it.
He said he had to talk it over with his wife and would get back to me. Based on what our sales pros say, I doubt that's going to happen.
when i put in an oxford zip i only got low APR, but when i entered one closer to home i got $1k and low APR. may or may not be accurate.
Your mistake was in not telling him what the price was before the joyride.
I would have asked him..." Is that what you expected?"
If he said that he expected to pay several thousand dollars less, I would have thanked him for his time and gone in the house.
But, a real stroke would have said " Yeah, that might work" knowing he would be denied the joyride/testdrive if he had given you the wrong answer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
He'll talk it over with his wife. She'll suggest that he look around some dealers and private ads. He will, maybe even call a few see what's the least they'll take. He will take his time as boating season is not in yet. He might find some older models that are cheaper or he won't. Then he'll give up and stick to his Lexus for now, and hold off until summer.
The other 10% chance is that he'll call you back and offer you $24k.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
i'm assuming it is an RX.
after selling the GM, i guess you are not too surprised by the low offer.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Where do you get this stuff? Can you provide us with a citation? Probably not - you're just making it up as you go along.
Jimbres, glad you wrote that. I couldn't have said it better myself. Just writing thoughts as real facts doesn't help anyone.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
Richard
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I got one of those with my TSX two years ago. Now I know what it's called.
What he said was:
I am not blaming elderly for not having brains but the simple fact is that as time goes on people in general become for forgetful.
I have written it down so I can look it up to remind myself whenever I become for forgetful.
:P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Infiniti G, again a great car. And, the bargain of the bunch. Fast, handles well....nicely done. The seats (especially the sport seats) aren't as nice as the Acura's. I'm dropping it from consideration, too. Just couldn't find that it "fits" as well as the Acura.
The TL is fast, too. I like the handling, a lot (AWD version). Sport seats fit me like a glove. Everything is legible. As much as people complain about the buttons, I know exactly where everything is (probably due to owning the Accord). So, very intuitive for me.
This is probably the most shopping I've done for any car purchase. Time to focus on what I would be happiest with, though. Time to get serious.
I appreciate everyone's insight on the Tahoe.....sales pros especially, as you guys do this for a living. All of you must see this type of buyer every day....doesn't give you much information. Seems to like the vehicle. I tried asking him some questions about what it is he's looking for. But, all he'll say is he wants something that's better for towing. He can get a pickup, that's not nearly as loaded as the Tahoe, for less money. I should have asked him questions that would have led me to more expanded answers other than "yes" or "no".
His Lexus is an RX....not sure, but I'd say maybe 4-5 years old? It's an RX 300, whenever those were current. Don't think I'd use it for towing. I do believe a V8 and towing specific underpinnings (which the Tahoe has) would be immensely better than what he has now. It really doesn't matter what I think. It depends on what he thinks. Plus, boat season is still a month away. Maybe take the Tahoe to a Chevy dealer and see what a straight "buy offer" would be from them. Right now, all I know is what Blue Book and NADA say it's worth.
I don't know if he'll call me back or not. I'm not going to chase after him, though. If he wants it, fine. If he doesn't, that's fine too. I'll just get a super duper detail done on it and stick a "for sale" sign in it to see if anyone bites.
While I've only thought about selling it in the past, now I'm itching to do so, especially since I would like the cash to offset the purchase of the TL.
I'll call my Acura sales people tonight to see what they have in stock. If someone has something I like, I'll start in earnest tonight. Maybe even see what an Acura dealer will give me in trade on the Tahoe. I doubt I'll like those numbers, though. Still, there's the tax benefit of doing a trade I'll have to take into consideration, too.
I just took in a 25,000 Tahoe on a Crosstour. They would have had to sell it for almost 2500.00 more on thier own which would have been very hard to do.
I can't believe the way this state spends money!
However, the problems were not really in fit and finish ("inferior materials"), but rather in inferior components, especially electrical. Switches, relays, all that stuff. Case study would be switch No. 1 that lasts 1000 hours and costs $1.5 and switch No. 2 lasts 10000 hours and costs $2.5. Benz management of 1975 would never even look at relay No. 1, Benz management of 1990-2005 would use survey data indicating that most of their new-car customers kept their cars for just couple of years, so the temptation was simply irresistible to take the cheap one. Same story was with other guys (when one does something, other usually follow because they can't get pushed out), but it looks they got their stuff together faster.
I always say that the biggest marketing success of those companies (especially Benz) was to charge full price for unproven and experimental features on their high-end models, exactly because they are... experimental and unproven. When gremlins attack (inevitably), the tech's and salesman's response is "What da ya want? It's new, it's electronics". Basically an S-Class owner/lessee became a beta-version tester who actually pays for the privilege of testing. What's better than that?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Still, states are having a tough budget time right now. They're looking for all kinds of ways to boost tax revenue.
Can't imagine that would be good for your business, though.
I'll shop the Tahoe. Thinking if the Costco guy does indeed call me back (which is uncertain), and he keeps to his low ball offer, it wouldn't net me much, if anything, taking the tax credit into consideration. The key, obviously, is what it's worth on a trade. Bumper-to-bumper warranty has long expired. But, the 100K power train warranty is still in effect. I would think that some GM dealer would be able to CPO the Tahoe, so I'll run it by them, too.
Ideally, I should have made a decision to sell the Tahoe when we had 6" of snow on the ground. But, now's not bad either, given the boat season about to begin.
Then, there';s always the prospect that gas prices could accelerate again (although for the life of me, I can't figure out why....the economy, demand, and the job situation is still depressed).
Good to hear that your Honda dealer won't shy away from something like a Chevy Tahoe to swing a deal, though. My preferred Acura dealer group owned a Chevy dealer, too. GM just pulled their Chevy franchise as part of their consolidation, though. Don't know if that's good, or bad for me in trying to swing a trade.
hp....thanks for your input. I've been down this road many times, too.
We'll see how this plays out.
I can't speak about MB because I'm not a fan, although I understand that the last generation S was a highly problematic beast. (Thankfully, I can't afford an S, even if I wanted one.) But my experience with the 3-series BMW as well as friends' experiences with the 5 convinces me that these cars, while not bulletproof, are reliable & not prohibitively expensive to maintain. I see plenty of older (E36, E39 & E46) BMWs in my German car friendly NYC suburb.
Del's claim that BMW resorted to the use of cheaper materials to be price competitive with Lexus is not only baseless (we're still waiting for proof) but also illogical. Lexus's big moneymakers are the ES (Camry-based) sedan & the RX SUV, which don't compete directly against BMW's heavy hitters: the 3 & 5-series sedans. The IS was supposed to be Lexus's answer to the BMW 3, but it's not stealing more than a handful of sales. From what I can see, it's a "doctor's wife's car", just as the Ford Thunderbird was back in the late 60s. (Yes, I date myself.)
I'd say that if any competitor gives BMW execs sleepless nights, it's not a Japanese manufacturer but another German. Audi is coming out with the most exciting offerings in the peformance/luxury segment & is clearly gunning for BMW's customers. I think that BMW sees Audi, not Lexus, as its chief rival.
Good luck. Hope all goes well. Did I call the TL or what? :shades:
I think there is a lot of space for Lexus. Their customers seem to be in love with those kind of vehicles. I think they are mostly coming from Benz and Cadillac lots, not Audi or BMW. Lexus customer values comfort, luxury combined with reliability. They like stuff, just as much as everybody else, but they would rather have no feature than "not working" feature. I wonder if latest Toyota troubles will put a real dent in that base and where will they go? Perhaps back to Cadillac?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
What are you thinking about color choices? I have heard of some people who opt for a darker color, painting the "beak" to match the color of the car to sort of soften the effect.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I've only seen picutres of the TSX wagon. Haven't had a lot of experience with the TSX in general. It closely resembles my Accord, though. I know the Acura ZDX is based on the Honda Crosstour. So, the TSX Wagon would be....what?....a stretched version of the Accord Sedan? Acuras in general, like most brands have a pretty rabid set of fans.
Many lamented the smaller TL from the last generation. The only problem I had with it was it was FWD with a fairly powerful motor under the hood. That induced all sorts of handling "characteristics" I didn't like....not the least of which was torque steer.
I have driven the new FWD TL. Acura has really tamed that torque steer, if not eliminated it. I would imagine the new TSX would be the same. Still, it's a bit soft for my tastes. AWD version is right up my alley.
I can't think of one time I noticed torque steer. That said, mine is a 4 cyl, not the 3.5L 6.
Would think the wagon TSX would be similar, maybe even sharper handling than the Accord. The Accord is no slouch, though. If you're coming out of a Camry, for example, you probably won't appreciate with the Accord/TSX can do. It's a firmer ride, but certainly not numb and "marshmellowy" like the Camry.
I guess the best thing to do is to test drive the TSX to get a flavor of what the TSX wagon will be like.
houdini....I've really waffled on colors. One day I liked the black pearl. The next week I liked their reddish color.
Personal opinion, the TL looks best in black. Just trying to nail down the interior color (which won't be black). Two choices there.....a light grey (Acura calls it taupe), or their "umber" interior, which is a brownish/reddish. While umber is striking, I'm wondering if it's too cartoonish for my tastes.
But, like most manufacturers in the sport sedan arena, they seem to think only 3 colors exist......black, light/dark grey and white. Same with their interiors....black, black and more black. I want a little contrast. Right now, leaning towards the taupe interior.
Sidenote....several years ago, Acura offered a bright gold exterior color. When I first say it, I thought..."hey, now there's something different." I don't think they offer that color anymore. And, now when I see it, I think..."that's hideous". Either my tastes have changed over the years. Or, Acura found that color really didn't sell all that well.
My local Acura dealer also has a "bronze" TL. Again, pretty striking, at first. But, I was describing it to my son, and could come up with only one descriptor for it....
brown metallic dog poo...
Crossed that color off my list.
Nice choice (any of them would have been).
Too bad that TSX wagon will be prohibitively expensive more me. Just teh kind of car I'd like. My old story - wagons and convertibles....
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have always been intrigued by the TL. I always went to look at them and didn't buy (lease) for one reason or another. I really like the current version on paper. However, I can't get past the front end. If they tone it down when my Genesis comes off lease I am sure I will give it another look. Like you said the styling is really love it or hate it. At any rate I am sure the reddish color or the black will look great with the light interior. My Genesis is burgundy with Ivory seats and dark brown (almost black) carpeting. I love it. I get the light airy look of the seats, headliner etc, with the easier to keep dark carpets.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Maybe you can get a pop on grill to cover it. I saw a Chrysler 300 with a pop on top grill that looked like a Mercedes. That would improve the shnoz affect.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
LOL....I am not one for modifying my vehicles but thanks for the suggestion!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic