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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,588
    That alone makes the odds 60:30 million or 1:500 thousand or 20 times higher than winning the Illinois state lottery

    I'll take your word for it, my head is still spinning from all those numbers. I am impressed with your calculations though.

    Are you an actuary?

    I thought there were 19 real cases of deaths in runaway Toyotas..

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    edited March 2010
    If you ever doubted that Toyota has a lot of control over the media just look at how the coverage of the two Prius UA stories are going. Both the one in CA and the one in downstate NY were initially covered just like any "look what the big bad corporation did now" story. Suddenly, (after I assume a few calls to the TV ad sales department) the tone of the stories has changed to "a couple of crazy attention whores telling lies". I think I started to smell a rat when the weatherman on the local station started commenting about how bad it was that the CA guy was "making things up". :confuse:

    I'm not saying that the Prius UA claims are true but it has become clear that Toyota has a lot of influence on how stories are reported.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I really do not think that Toyota manipulated the stories one bit. The investigations proved the UA was not an issue. The lack of brake wear, his failure to put it in neutral, the attorney already in place, and inability to replicate sealed the deal. Now is when there will be many reports of "UA" by people not only wanting the 5 minutes of fame, but those trying to cash in with their ambulance chasing attorneys. Kinda like the balloon boy's parents that we had here.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "..do not think Toyota manipulated the story one bit..."

    I don't think they manipulated the story (although it was Toyota's people who examined both cars). I think they used their considerable muscle to make sure that THEIR side of the story got out. I mean, how did the negative information about the CA driver get out so fast?

    I'm not saying that they did anything wrong, in fact if I were in their shoes I would try to discredit my accusers too. It's just that Toyota's influence with the media was VERY apparent.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Member Posts: 194
    From Reuters.com:

    WASHINGTON, March 18 (Reuters) - U.S. safety officials believe driver error may be behind the crash in New York of a Toyota Motor Corp (TM.N) (7203.T) Prius that has been investigated as a possible case of unintended acceleration, federal investigators said on Thursday...
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Well if I was Toyota I'd also fight the Jim Sikes story as it was pure fiction, and the ABC's story of the reporter experiencing UA, when the revving tach belonged to a parked car with doors open that was spliced into the footage of the reporter driving the car.

    Stories such as these can seriously damage a company's reputation just because one loser wanting 15 minutes of fame, and anotherr wanting a story for the week.

    I don't think it's not manipulation at all. In fact I'm surprised there wasn 't more coverage that both of these examples were "hoaxes".

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    it's going to cost a lot of money to try to debunk these incidents one by one.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    you would think the network would have learned a lesson after the rigged gas tank fiasco. But, maybe not!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,588
    you would think the network would have learned a lesson after the rigged gas tank fiasco

    Not to mention the phony 60 Minutes stories about UA in Audies.

    Sometimes there just aren't enough real news stories to fill the time, and to sensationalize to beat the competition.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    My brother had a 2001 9-3 sedan with north of 170K on it and it still runs just fine. He hasn't spent anymore over its life than I have on my Accord. If I had that kind of luck I'd really like a Saab.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    I'm trying to stay out of the "Toyota" issues over on this thread, as there's at least two others that are dissecting, inspecting, resurrecting each and every tidbit of information regarding their problems.

    But, I have to agree with you old farmer. The guy with the Prius in CA with reported UA....well, I don't know if his story is true or not. What I did see was this guy's personal information (which wasn't very flattering) being blasted all over the media within 24 hours of the story breaking. That information surely had little to nothing to do with his Prius. And, someone with a lot of clout had to make a concerted effort to dig into what should be private information to discredit him.

    Toyota was able to ascertain what his Prius' "black box" recorded in record time. Yet, they can't for the life of them figure out what's going on with all the other vehicles in the 50+ deaths currently recorded for the issues with Toyotas/Lexus. And, they certainly aren't making those incidents recorded public.

    Same thing happened with Mrs. Smith's Lexus that she testified in front of Congress about. Must not have been able to dig any dirt on her. However, the attack on her personality shifted into high gear after her testimony.

    While Toyota was painting a picture of themselves as a benevolent, contrite, and concerned car company, they have gone on the offensive to those who have complained. Even looking at the ads here on Edmunds.....showing people, middle America owners as loving their "Safe" Toyotas.

    Seems a bit disingenuous. I get this sneaky suspicion that we'll never know the real truth behind all of this, because it will cost Toyota too much money to let it be known. They're hoping that this will all die down in time. Then it will be back to business as usual.

    Toyota's got their PR working overtime. Wish they'd expend as much effort being honest, and less damning of their customers complaints.

    If any adage is more true in this instance, it's the same old one...."money talks, BS walks."

    No more comments by me in this thread, except to say that I've never, ever seen any company who'd spent decades building a reliable, safe, high quality image, and flush it down the toilet in record time because of their own arrogance.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    fezo....while I'll admit that I don't know much about SAAB, the few people I've run into who've owned them pretty much reflects your brother's experiences. That is, they're reliable and long lasting cars.

    GM didn't do Saab any favors.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,588
    2001 9-3 sedan with north of 170K on it and it still runs just fine.

    We loved our 1992 9.5 Saab. It was a great car but we traded it after an accident. It was probably fine but my wife thought it wouldn't be the same again.

    I tried a 2008 9.3 Cabriolet when I was looking. Fantastic car, lots of fun to drive, incredible feel of the road, but the technology was about 10 years behind the times.
    Torque steer, soft top roof, FWD, rusty wheels on a new car, etc. I felt if I was paying that much for a car, I would like the latest safety features and technology, and GM didn't have the money to do that.

    Hope Saab survives, and can keep up with research and development. I would consider one if they can catch up to the leaders.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Great comments, gg. You have to step back and look at the larger picture to see the way subtle information & misinformation can be used to discredit those making claims & to influence public opinion.

    We're now hearing about the "black box"es show cars with their accelerators depressed & no brakes being applied. But the media has not mentioned that these are drive-by-wire vehicles and in such a car, it's the computer that logs the data and does the controlling. And if there's a bug in the computer's software that got stuck at "accelerator on; brakes off" then that what's would be logged in the black box. Garbage in-garbage out.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I couldn't agree more with this post.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I didn't dismiss anything and I have tried to stay out of this for the most part.

    I just smell a "tempest in a teapot" that's all.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    If a woman in Detroit can sue and get $100,000 because her co-workers wore perfume, cologne and deoderant how many incident reports have been filed hoping to cash in.? By the way, that story was in the Detroit News early this week or last week.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    There you go, another liar is found out. This lady never touched the brakes, just jammed on the gas.

    Still, people keep coming up with these long involved "what if" scenarios and accusing Toyota of being "arrogant" simply because they refuse to confess to crimes that they never committed.

    Didn't people learn anything when this happened to Audi?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Wow. I had to look it up. It never ceases me to amaze me how selfish some people are and that lawyers and the court system enable them.

    To bring it on topic: I wonder what car that lady is going to buy with her settlement money? I hope it's a :lemon:
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    edited March 2010
    I hate for your FOB to go through the agitation, soap, and water in the washing machine. Place a sticky note on the knob on your washing machine. Write these two words on it: Remember FOB!

    OK, enough is enough! I have been hoping that you would come along and sort all this fob nonsense out, but no!

    The word is fob not FOB, it isn't initials that stand for something, so it should be written in lower case letters like any other common noun.

    Of course I don't expect anybody here to take a blind bit of notice, but I feel better for getting this off my chest.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I read the Auto Insider in the Detroit News often. Great wealth of info. Also, you may like LeftLane News.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    FOB="freight on board"
    fob="a little dongle you carry in your pocket that allows you to unlock your car, only if you didn't leave it in your pocket while sending your laundry through the Maytag."
    :P :);) :shades:
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Hey grandtotal, I feel better because you feel better. :)
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    thx LR. I've read LeftLane news occassionaly. I will check out Detriot News as well.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,588
    The word is fob not FOB, it isn't initials that stand for something, so it should be written in lower case letters like any other common noun.

    It can be spelled both ways....see dictionary.com;

    —Verb phrase
    2.fob off,
    a.to cheat someone by substituting something spurious or inferior; palm off (often fol. by on): He tried to fob off an inferior brand on us.
    b.to put (someone) off by deception or trickery: She fobbed us off with false promises.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Origin:
    1350–1400; ME fobben; c. G foppen to delude; cf. fob1f.o.b. 
    Commerce.
    free on board: without charge to the buyer for goods placed on board a carrier at the point of shipment: automobiles shipped f.o.b. Detroit.
    Also, F.O.B.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Ok, enough is enough!"

    What?! Do you have trouble reading and comprehending? I told you that FOB stands for "Frequency Operational Band". Also, Driver has explained TWICE that either form is acceptable based on his research. If it makes you feel good, go play with your "fob". :P

    Richard
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    What a party pooper you are Richard -- this fob discussion has me glued to the screen. ;)
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    edited March 2010
    I trust that Richard is just kidding here. I would hate to think that he is being a Dick (joke intended). :blush:

    As for his acronym, without of a reference, I have to believe that he made it up. I looked on Acronymfinder.com and found FOB: "Full of Baloney" and it seemed appropriate. :P

    (There was also "Finger Operated Button" which kinda works.)
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,491
    Yes folks, an actual sales story - no it isn't me, but I wish it was.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    I would hate to think that he is being a Dick (joke intended).

    You said it, not me. . .but the thought did occur. When Richard does something, it's right. You may not see it right away, but he'll explain it to you in due course.

    Not all Richards are Dicks. :D

    Some, however, are. :P
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,491
    Yes folks, an actual sales story - no it isn't me, but I wish it was. I have a customer who lives here in NY & has a house in South Florida. The guy is a dog lover & although he can well afford to fly, chooses to drive back and forth multiple times per year.

    On his way down to Florida last month, his ('08) Supercharged Range Rover encountered a problem in North Carolina that required servicing. His Range Rover had about 40K miles on it. He didn't want to wait 3 days for the part & was planning to get a new car soon anyway ... To be continued (iPod battery dying)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,588
    Let's end the fob conversation with the meaning of "fob off";
    Main Entry: fob off
    Function: transitive verb
    Date: 1597
    1 : to put off with a trick, excuse, or inferior substitute
    2 : to pass or offer (something spurious) as genuine
    3 : to put aside

    One last word to GG though. Keep in mind the new large key can save two different settings for mirrors and seats. In other words, when you use your key to open the car the seats and mirrors adjust for you, when driver 2 enters, the seats will adjust for that driver. You can't do that with the little metal key.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "What a party pooper you are..."

    Who said that I was finished? ;) :P :shades:

    Richard
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    What? And all this time I thought FOB ment Forward Operating Base.

    Field Operations Bureau

    Father of Baby

    Foreign-Owned Bank

    :P

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • murphydogmurphydog Member Posts: 735
    oldfarmer - while we may never know what kind of behind the scenes activity took place, the issue I have with the California story is the guy has the ability to pick up and dial 911 and stay on the phone, but not the ability to move the shift lever to "N"?

    That alone make me doubt his story overall.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    And who could forget Friend Of Bill?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh I hope the goofy stuff doesn't start up again!
  • avatexrs1avatexrs1 Member Posts: 63
    I have a question for those on board. I have a daughter about to turn 16. While I can afford to buy her pretty much any kind of car, I don't believe in spoiling my kids. On the other hand, she studies like crazy, is at the top of class academically (so will likely get a scholarship and save me some tuition money), and really doesn't ask for much. So I was considering a 2 to 3 year old Civic would be appropriate. (I've driven Accords for years and currently have an Acura and a Lexus).

    Toyota, though is offering some incredible deals on Corollas this month - $1k cash back, 0% financing (don't need to finance, but free money is free money) and 2 years free scheduled maintenance. And the Toyota dealer showrooms, from what I've seen, are like morgues these days.

    Edmunds TMV on a new LE isn't much more, net net, than most used Civics on Autotrader.

    So does it make more sense to pay an extra grand or so to get the new car and the full warranty?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,491
    So while the Supercharged Range Rover is being serviced at some mega-luxury dealership somewhere in North Carolina, he walks into the Porsche showroom & falls head over heals in love with a new Panamera 4S. Black/Black. He had some money wired to him & took spot delivery of the car.

    He drove the Panamera 4S from North Carolina to South Florida where he was met by his very close friend (& the guy who runs his buildings). They headed to the Porsche dealer in South Florida to see if Porsche sells some sort of mat to cover the middle console in the back (so the dog doesn't mess it up). In the showroom was a brand-spankin' new Panamera Turbo (White/Black). His friend practically has to drag him out of the showroom.

    Fast Forward another week & a half and the 2 guys (and the dog) head back up to NY. This time a blizzard stops them in the same town where just 2 weeks (and about 1800 miles) ago my customer purchased his Panamera 4S. Once the roads were cleared, they stop by the Porsche dealer & the salesman opend the door & there it was - an almost exact Panamera Turbo (white/black) is sitting on the showroom floor. He had to have it. He traded in the 4S for the Turbo.

    He got a certificate from Porsche saying he's the 1st person in the United States to trade in a Panamera.

    And a good month for the salesman too.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    I can't believe someone who is so bad with many and makes such expensive rash decisions is so wealthy. :sick:

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    So does it make more sense to pay an extra grand or so to get the new car and the full warranty?

    IMHO, yes. I'd take a new Corolla over a 3 year old Civic for only $1k more anytime of day. Good luck.

    Come back and tell us the sales story!
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Where is Jmonroe?

    He's joined the dark side... become a "lurker".

    We know you're out there jmonroe... what gives?


    I’m alive and well, almost, (see below) and don’t call me no “lurker”. :mad:

    Maybe, his wife is punishing him for buying cheap living room furniture.

    Not really and for those who are thinking about it, I didn’t get smacked with any dining room furniture either. Instead, I got hammered with replacement granite counter tops and a complete redo of the appliances, all stainless of course. Those baked potatoes really do taste better coming out of that stainless oven and the beer is so much better coming out of the stainless refrig too and you wouldn’t believe how clean those dishes are now, either. Still have to do the backsplash in glass tiles, what else? I think a good waterproof paint job above those granite tops would set them off just fine but noooo only glass tiles with maybe some inset stainless “accent pieces” will do. :cry:

    Or, he is on a self imposed sabbatical for trading in his "Genny" for a Kia Rio SS.

    No, I didn’t do that but after trying to drive that Genny in the snow we had in February (over 28 inches on the table on the deck) without snow tires, that wouldn’t have been a bad idea. Maybe a little late but I decided to buy dedicated Genny rims for snow tires. I wanted to buy Blizzak snow tires but nobody had them so I went to the tire store where I’ve bought Coopers in the past and figured I’d go with those. They said they had Nokian Hakkapeliita R that they felt were at least an equal to the Blizzak's and maybe even better. Since I had heard good things about them I bought them. Man, what a difference in the way that thing goes in the snow with good snow tires. Believe me, that thing is HORRIBLE with the all season Dunlops that came with the car.

    Well, tomorrow it’s going to be in the 70’s and since that beauty will be a year old any day now, it deserves a good cleaning and waxing for the party. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Toyota is doing some crazy things to move product that some people are still afraid to buy.

    And Honda is responding in kind. You mght get a better deal than you think on a new Civic. Let them know what you are hearing from Toyota and see what they say.

    And, that 2 years of free service probably isn't worth as much as you might think.

    In any case, I would buy the car you like the most. 1000.00 won't matter much on a car you really don't like as well.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,785
    Welcome back jmonroe.

    General consensus seems to be that the Nokians are the best of the best; I'll bet it made a huge difference. Not an easy tire to find...I'd say you did really well there...

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,324
    I got hammered with replacement granite counter tops and a complete redo of the appliances, all stainless of course. Those baked potatoes really do taste better coming out of that stainless oven and the beer is so much better coming out of the stainless refrig too and you wouldn’t believe how clean those dishes are now, either. Still have to do the backsplash in glass tiles, what else? I think a good waterproof paint job above those granite tops would set them off just fine but noooo only glass tiles with maybe some inset stainless “accent pieces” will do. I got hammered with replacement granite counter tops and a complete redo of the appliances, all stainless of course. Those baked potatoes really do taste better coming out of that stainless oven and the beer is so much better coming out of the stainless refrig too and you wouldn’t believe how clean those dishes are now, either. Still have to do the backsplash in glass tiles, what else? I think a good waterproof paint job above those granite tops would set them off just fine but noooo only glass tiles with maybe some inset stainless “accent pieces” will do.

    I went down that road @3 years ago...

    Before:

    image

    After:

    image

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    it deserves a good cleaning and waxing for the party.

    Glad to see you haven't changed. :P

    Welcome back!
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    General consensus seems to be that the Nokians are the best of the best; I'll bet it made a huge difference. Not an easy tire to find...I'd say you did really well there...

    +1 I had the Hakkapeliitta RSi in my Passat. They were great. Unfortunately when I was looking for snow tires for the Jeep, Nokian didn't have any in that size.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    He got a certificate from Porsche saying he's the 1st person in the United States to trade in a Panamera.

    And a good month for the salesman too.


    Some people just have way too much disposable income. I know nothing about a Porsche, but in your opinion, how much do you think that trade cost him?
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,588
    Toyota, though is offering some incredible deals on Corollas this month - $1k cash back, 0% financing

    There was an article by 2 auto experts in the Globe and Mail newspaper in Canada. A lady was asking if she should lease a new Corolla, she loved the one she had, but didn't know if she should switch because of brake problems.

    Vaughn and Cato basically said:
    Personally, I would say that if you're really happy with your Corolla and with your dealer and with your lease rate, then there's no need to switch over the accelerator issue.

    Cato: Remember, the brakes in all Corollas work really well, regardless of what happens with the accelerator or ECU.


    You should read the full short article though, at;
    Should I buy a Corolla

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

This discussion has been closed.