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Stories from the Sales Frontlines



  • stickguystickguy Posts: 30,300
    too much car talk.

    went to the movies tonight (man, what a zoo. this theatre has to be making a fortune). Intended to see silver linings playbook, but 45 minutes before showtime it was sold out. So saw Argo instead (which I wanted to see when it was new, and was surprised to see it still there).

    anyway, excellent movie. My wife appreciated that it was not full of shooting and scary/gory stuff (the reason we did not see zero dark thirty, which I will go next week to see with my son).

    oh, lots of neat 70s vintage cars. Loved the Adam-12 refugee Matadors used as cop cars in Tehran! And some nice vintage MBs for Fintail.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 30,300
    I have had it both ways. One Nissan dealer near me is a pounce place. My wife won't go there. they group in front of the door, and gang up on you.

    others, they are low key, ask if you need help, and if you say no they leave you alone.

    one place though that I was invisible, more than once, was a local chevy place (guess I did not look rich enough?), and also a Dodge place in an autoplex strip none for handling bad credit more than selling cars you want. Maybe I looked too rich?

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • mako1amako1a VirginiaPosts: 1,855
    78! Oh my, never. I run at 74 when it's scorching out (90+) and 72 when it's in the high 70s / 80s.

    We keep the temp at 69 degrees winter and summer. Forget the power bills.

    Our electric bills are usually low of $150 and high of $375 and we're all electric.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • mako1amako1a VirginiaPosts: 1,855
    Nissan dealer near me is a pounce place

    Perfect description. Nissan dealer here same. Went there to claim (supposed) free gift...never went back again. Annoying, overly talkative and no free prize.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 12,759
    Craig - you never told us that story. You, retired, on the "other side." What else are you holding from us? How's your son like his wrangler?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 9,890
    78! Oh my, never. I run at 74 when it's scorching out (90+) and 72 when it's in the high 70s / 80s.

    We do the same as Sandman as regards temperature settings. In the summers, we set the temperature at 78 degrees and during a warm winter like this one, 77 degrees. If we ever set our thermostat at 72-74 degrees, we would freeze. My dad gets cold at 78 degrees, so you know what most of our disagreements are about. We shut the air off when we leave the house each morning and usually don't have to switch it back on until the temp in the condo reaches 80, which is about 3:00 PM each day.

    You have to understand that we are accustomed to the heat and humidity after living here for many, many years. Remember, I lived in the Mojave Desert for many years as well where temps were in the 105-109 degree range every day from May through October.

    It's the cold temps we can't tolerate. Anything below 70 degrees to us is cold. If it gets into the 50's night or day, we turn on the heat. It's all what you are accustomed to. Imagine people who live in Alaska - the probably melt in temps above 75 degrees.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 22,598
    Use of E15 gas could void your warranty and ruin your engine.

    This from AAA:
    AAA said it fears unsuspecting consumers using E15 could end up with engine problems that might not be covered by their vehicles' warranties. It cited five manufacturers—BMW, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagen—as on record saying their warranties will not cover fuel-related claims caused by the use of E15. Seven additional auto makers—Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo—have stated that the use of E15 does not comply with the fuel requirements specified in their owner's manuals and may void warranty coverage, according to the organization.

    AAA - E15 gas

    Fox News Video
    Fox News Warning

    Is this just making news up to fill 24/7 news or is this something to worry about?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog North CarolinaPosts: 6,984
    Well, it appears that the E15 is a debatable issue. The EPA says that E15 is designed for the flexible fuel vehicles and those vehicles that were manufactured after 2001. It is estimated that 45% of the country's drivers are driving vehicles made prior to 2001. That figure alone is an interesting one. I certainly never realized that nearly half the country drives cars over a decade in age. At least they are getting the "goodie" out of their purchase.

    You may not be able to avoid some E15 even if you try. If a gas customer prior to you used E15, you will get about one third of a gallon in your tank from residue remaining in the gas hose. It is believed that this small amount would not harm your vehicle. Some experts are calling for additional research on E15. The EPA says that it is safe for vehicles within the current category. We all know that government knows best. After all, who wouldn't sacrifice their car to help out with the greenhouse problem? Go Al! :sick:

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,201
    Well, it appears that the E15 is a debatable issue.

    Pardon the ignorance but what is the difference between E15 and E85? My 2011 Buick LaCrosse is designed to run on E85. Not sure what that means but I believe it to a blend of 85% pure gasoline and 15% ethanol. However, at most pumps where I fill up the sign normally reads 10% ethanol.

    So in my thinking, the lower the ethanol content the better the expected performance. I am wrong or is this a totally different discussion?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 30,300
    the E# is the % of ethanol. IMO, 1% is too much!

    so E15 is just 85% gas instead of 90%, and E85 is only 15% gas.

    an E85 (flex fuel) engine has to be specially designed to essentially run on ethanol or gas. E10 engines are more like regular engines that can tolerate that much ethanol. So it seems that 15% is just too much ethanol for a normal engine.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 11,865

    Sounds like a plot to trash all cars made before 2001. Kind of a cash for clunkers program in reverse that COSTS you $4500.

    I'm still fuming over the mess E10 has made to small lawn mower type engines.

    2015 Mustang GT, 2009 PT Cruiser, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 30,300
    My BIL (the one who lives in Amsterdam) agrees with you. He has a large property, and a bunch of small engines (mower, snowblower, snow mobiles, etc.). There was one small Citgo in town that did carry (usually) straight gas, sold essentially for off-road only (just small engines in cans).

    not sure how they got it. I think he said the somehow strained it out? Anyway, very popular place, and people wanted to get it for their cars too.

    seems though the EPA or staties wanted to shut them down, being as they were evil and all, but they were putting up the good fight last I heard!

    wonder if stabil helps with that? Or if there are other products?

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 30,300
    oh, 1 more thing. I won't use it in my 2 strokes (just a weed trimmer now, until I open up my new chain saw) so I buy pre-mixed pure gas + oil in quart cans at sears. I use so little of it that the $10/gal price (on sale!) does not bother me.

    my lawn mower, I just throw in Exxon E10 and hope for the best.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 100,297
    E10 sucks... I'm guessing that E15 will be worse.. :(

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 9,890
    E10 sucks... I'm guessing that E15 will be worse

    My Mercedes is designed to run on 85% gas and 15% ethanol, but they don't sell that down here in Florida - yet. The more entanol they put into gasoline, the higher the cost of the gasoline. That is because ethanol costs more, per gallon, to produce and blend than pure gasoline. The reason for the ethanol is to reduce emissions - how much I am not sure about.

    Using ethanol reduces dependency on foreign oil - which was the original reason for puttng ethanol in gasoline.

    By the year 2020, internal combustion engines will have to travel almost 45 miles on a gallon of fuel. With the introduction of the ECO start/stop engines, they have improved city driving mileage by 20%. The new E350 sedan is supposed to get 24 mgp city, 31 highway. That is a significant improvement. I understand they are coming out with a 4 cylinder engine for the E350 soon which is expected to develop 260 hp a get 30/40 mpg city/highway.

    But back to ethanol - I believe it damages engines in the long run - to burn alcohol - which burns hotter than gasoline.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,197
    You know, until just recently nobody ever cared about tires neeeding to be replaced due to time. Back when we were broke kids we scrounged used tires out of junkyards and bought recaps.

    Once in a great while someone would have a blowout but not very often.

    I think the whole thing is overblown. but...that's me.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,197
    I didn't mention my background when I was helping my son buy his Wrangler but they quickly learned that I wasn't one to "mess" with.

    In the stores we were in the "managers" sat in a tower like gods and the salespeople would approach them. I'm surprised they didn't have to bow down to them.

    One store had a place where the salesperson who was "up" had to stand and he couldn't leave his post.

    Another store had a cheap looking canopy where the salespeople stood. They weren't allowed in the store building unless they had a customer.

    What a degrading, lousy way to make a living!

    He ended up buying a 2012 Jeep Wrangler that was pretty loaded. He loves it.

    I find it to be the most uncomfortable vehicle I've ever been in. The back seat is difficult to get into and uncomfortable as can be.

    It would have been one of the LAST cars I would have considered.
  • tjc78tjc78 Certified like SnakeweaselPosts: 7,534
    In the stores we were in the "managers" sat in a tower like gods and the salespeople would approach them. I'm surprised they didn't have to bow down to them.

    When I got the LaCrosse I got so tired of the Salesperson running up to the
    manager I just walked up to the manager area (above the sales floor ) and dealt with the manager directly. Deal was done fairly fast after that!

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,357
    Yeah, but Wrangler people are different. If I could afford a play vehicle I could see I could have fun with one. They do srtke me as overpriced but they sell all they make so I'm wrong.

    We have exactly three (3) stations in all of NJ that sell pure gas. If I want top tier pure gas there is one (1) station in NJ - an Exxon in Millville. By one daughter's boyfriend is from around there. I may have to have him fill a gas can for me so I'll have real gas for the mower.
    2013 Mazda 5 Grand Touring, 2010 Toyota Prius IV. 2007 Toyota Camry XLE, 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999 Mazda Miata
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,182
    edited January 2013
    Using ethanol reduces dependency on foreign oil - which was the original reason for putting ethanol in gasoline.

    Not really. It takes a lot of diesel to grow corn for the ethanol. Ethanol mandate is best example of what's wrong with Washington. It is outrageous, stupid and downright criminal. For sake of corporate fatcats from ADM and others, poor people in Africa, Mexico and even here are forced to compete with machines for food. The mandate alone increased world famine probably more than natural disasters. Compared to that, the damage this unwanted, corrosive garbage causes on vehicles, is minor. I trully despise interest groups that are so powerful that neither party candidate would even make a peep about this during primaries. Notice that even drought was not enough to dissuade those thieves to loosen their grip and those idiots in Washington only obliged.

    Sorry for the tirade, but this subject is one of those that make me trully angry.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,489
    Seems like a great opportunity for the drug companies to sell flu vaccines like oil companies sell gas:

    1) Premium gets 4 viruses protected
    2) Plus gets 3 viruses
    3) Regular unleaded gets 2 (the current standard).

    People could choose which they want to pay for.

    If it works as good as some here say, I'd suppose the market will opt for the best. Put their money where their mouth is. I heard a doctor guest on talk radio state it was more like 60% effective, not the 91% previously reported here. Keep in mind even with the 60% figure, he was PRO-vaccine.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 9,890
    Sorry for the tirade, but this subject is one of those that make me trully angry.

    You are totally correct! The alcohol produced by fermenting the corn seems more important than feeding people that precious crop. I prefer pure gasoline that will not oxidize the hoses and gaskets and cause engines to burn outrageously hot from the alcohol additives.

    But the original reason for adding alcohol to gasoline started back on the late 70's and early 80's to reduce dependency on foreign oil so that the so called oil embargo would never again cripple this country.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,909
    I totally agree dino.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 22,603
    Alcohol is primarily to benefit the big farm companies. Their lobbyists portray it as a benefit to the small farmer, but that's not the real case. The government gives a subsidy to the companies who built plants to produce ethanol from the corn. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of gasoline.

    The green folks also pushed the ethanol, whether they were just useful idiots for the big company's cause or really thought it would save the world, I don't know. The plants producing ethanol produce a large amount of CO2. To cover up that sin of producing CO2 (food for plants) they tried to pipe it deep underground to dispose of it at a nearby plant. But that got turned down. Instead they built a dry ice plant nearby. I don't know how much of their production that uses up.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 22,598
    . Keep in mind even with the 60% figure, he was PRO-vaccine.

    Andre, start looking at the world in a positive will enjoy life more.

    That means almost 2/3rds of the people are protected against the worst strains of flu, and 2/3rds protection is better than no protection. Advantages still outweigh disadvantages, if you do get the flu it will probably be a milder form if you get vaccinated, and if you don't get the flu you won't pass it on to friends and loved ones.

    I'd rather have 62% protection than 0 protection.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 22,598
    I totally agree dino.

    Me too...and I learned something of value today! Using corn for fuel sounds good in theory, but, isn't so good in real life.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    So a couple years ago I asked the question about "no haggle pricing" and that I was thinking about moving in that direction. I got a lot of feedback and I also understand that some didn't like the idea. Of course the folks on here, for the most part, do more research when buying a car. Some do hours upon hours of research and look to sqeeze the last penny out of the deal and sometimes get it done.....My whole motive was for multiple reasons. 1. speed up the process 2. Better salespeople (many won't try the job because they don't like the haggle part) 3. more consistant gross profit (the only reason one guy gets $500 below cost is another guy paid $1000 over cost) 4. make it easier to buy a car. 5. offer the correct value on the trade, no holding back or flim flam of the numbers. 6. transparency.

    Here we are two years later and I did make the change and wanted to share our results....We went to very limited haggling on new cars (we post all our prices on the websites and quote said price to everyone) by "limited" I save a little bit to "throw in free floor mats" to seal the deal, if need be. Over the past year we have avg. less than $80 deviation from the posted new car price. On used cars we are solid No haggle....There was a learning curve for our salespeople and managers but they found it to be easier. Our entire sales process shifted from "selling the deal" to presenting the car and the process. Of course, there are customers who didn't like it and yeah, we may not be the lowest price in the country. probably lost some deals also. But sales have not fallen off, quite the opposite and profits have increased substantially....I would say its a success so far. I think eventually the entire industry is moving in this direction. New car margins are lower than ever before, so the dealers who are versed in no haggle or limited haggle will have a huge advantage.

    I agree that anyone can take my posted price and go to the next dealer and probably get a little better price...but at what cost or time? We don't have any circus music playing when the pricing starts, no manager in the back room, no extra stickers on the car for pin stripes and undercoating, no closer to hammer you if you want to leave without buying....and best of all your next door neighbor pays the same price you did and your 85 year old grandma gets the same price also. I'm glad we made the change and I think our customers like it also. We are in business to make money and I'm not ashamed of that but this has been a game changer. It was kinda scary at first and it was a big risk, not all employees handled the change and moved on. I would like to hear from folks who have purchased from no haggle dealers and their thoughts...
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,201
    But the original reason for adding alcohol to gasoline started back on the late 70's and early 80's to reduce dependency on foreign oil

    All good points but don't forget that oil is a non-renewable resource. So although ethanol may have some harmful impacts on the combustion engine it helps to prolong the supply of oil for the next generation.

    Brazil has become energy independent because it is able to convert sugarcane into bio fuels thus preserving its limited oil reserves. Most, if not all, of Brazil's automobiles run on bio fuels without the significant harmful impacts cited above.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,182
    Alcohol is bad enough due to corrosion, but if it were made of items that are directly used for feeding humanity (like sugar cane/beats, at least to some extent, leaf plants, grass, etc.), it could possibly be dealt with by changing fuel lines, storage practice. However, what really makes me angry, is American version of ethanol subsidy, i.e. corn. I read somewhere that 30% of corn production will supply some 3% of fuel needs. If this is true (don't know the real number, just heard it), you can see how trully criminal this mandate is.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • I was at the car dealership yesterday, and signed some of the paperwork on a 2013 Forester. They even forgot to give me a copy of what I signed, I had to ask and they ran it through the copier. I never went to the finance office, but they did start to run my credit. They told me the final paperwork would be ready on Wednesday.

    The paper I signed that they gave me a copy of is all handwritten, no title, and just has the agreed on price, VIN number, color. None of the monthly payment or financing details. The only text on it is at the bottom "Purchaser agrees that this Order includes all the terms and conditions on both the face and reverse side hereof, that this Order and any Riders here-to cancels and supersedes any prior agreement and as the date herof comprises the complete and exclusive statement of the terms of the agreement relation to the subject matters covered hereby, and that THIS ORDER SHALL NOT BECOME BINDING UNTIL ACCEPTED BY DEALER OR HIS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE AND IN THE EVENT OF A TIME SALE, DEALER SHALL NOT E OBLIGATED TO SELL UNTIL APPROVAL OF THE TERMS HEREOF IS GIVEN BY A BANK OR FINANCE COMPANY WILLING TO PURCHASE A RETAIL INSTALLMENT CONTRACT BETWEEN PARTIES HERETO BASED ON SUCH TERMS Purchaser by his execution of this Order certifies that he is 18 years of age or older and acknlowledges that he ahas read its terms and conditions and has received a true copy of this Order. By signing this order, you are give {dealername} the right to obtain a credit report. Customer states that the trade in vehicle does not have a salvaged/rebuilt title, frame damage, and that the air bags have not been deployed.

    Is this the "final" paper? Or is that Wednesday? I still want to do business with this dealer. When I came home, I saw they had a vehicle in transit that MSRPs for $100 less that is a color I like more and has exactly the options I want. I'm even willing to eat the $100 and wait for this other vehicle to arrive. Is this a possibility, or am I stuck with the not bad but not EXACTLY what I am looking for car? I left a message for them last night. We were there until they closed so they haven't gotten the message yet. I'm planning to call them as soon as they open in the morning. Just a bit nervous because I'd really like the one that is still in transit.
This discussion has been closed.