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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The only time we will pull a person's credit is after a deal has been agreed on.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay so why would any dealer today ask for a license to "hold"? Is this strictly for the test drive? If the salesperson is going with you, why do they need to copy it? Do they think you're going to shove them out the door and steal the car or something?

    If the salesperson is not going with you, yeah, okay, I think a copy of the license is in order.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    If the salesperson is going with you, why do they need to copy it?

    I’m sure the salesman will tell you “it’s company policy”.

    When I bought in 05’, I wasn’t crazy about it and that’s what I was told. The salesman said, “nobody likes to give away their license but when you see how we do it you won’t mind”. He said, “watch this” as he goes to the copy machine, makes a copy, comes back and says, “now let’s go take that test drive”. He put the copy in his shirt pocket where I could see it and when we returned from the test drive he gave it back to me right then and there.

    If all dealers did it like this, I can’t imagine anyone balking at that method.

    When I bought in 06’, I had heard so much about copying drivers licenses (here at Edmonds and talking to people), I lost my fear of it and didn’t think twice about it that time.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, first of all, we have to make sure they even have a driver's license so we make a copy.

    There are some creeps oout there too who may have other things than a test drive on their minds. This way they know we have theri ID.

    I can't remember the last time I've had someone object to this.

    The few that object are usually the same people who question every step of the deal and fight us all of the way on everything.

    I think they go through life like this.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "...Sorry oldfarmer...you left yourself wide open for that one..."

    LOL. That's true but I figured it would be Jipster or jmonroe who picked up on it. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I think it might be a condition for insurance of the stock, even if a saleperson is in the car, to copy a DL.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    spent a chunk of Saturday out shopping (more like sitting and evaluatin to see what shoul dbe on the list). Wife even came along, a shocker if you knew her! This is my car, not heres.

    anyway, we hit VW, Volvo, BMW, Subaru and Nissan. All (but 1)of them were low key, friendly, non-threatening, etc. BMW gave a bit of a "tolerating" us vibe (although I was dressed fine, and can afford anything I looked at), but were pleasant and the dude showed us what we were interested in.

    Volvo was very low pressure, but the owenr knows me by name (not that they are otherwise high pressure). VW guy was friendly, never even got my contact info. Subie lady was friendly, if a bit odd. didn't even have to meet the manager.

    Only the Nissan place had that "old time" feel. Greenpeas lined up outside trying to grab you, more agressive coming after you. Just the feel of a "play games" type of store.

    My wife even commented about how she felt uncomfortable (almost threatened) by the atmosphere. I am sure that if I wasn't with her (if she was shopping by herself) no way would she have ever stayed. Forget about buying a car, I doubt she would have gone in the door. And if she did, I expect they would have done the baby seal routine on her.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Now you know why plants die in car showrooms :P
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    When they want a five liner it gives the advantage to the dealer in the negotiating process. This happened to me:

    I was going in with a blank personal check to buy a 4Runner. I did all my home work up front and knew the price. I offered the price. The salesman went to his Manager and said NO. They said with YOUR GOOD CREDIT (FICO in the 820s) you could finance the difference. I had already filled out the first few lines of the credit application. I said no and proceeded to walk away. That's when they settled for my price and my check.

    If they wouldn't have run a five liner until AFTER THE NEGOTIATION PROCESS the above would not have happened. Bottom line for me-no more five liners until after we arrive at a price. If you keep your financial affairs in order and pay your bills a dealer will try to take advatage of it. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! Maybe I am not surprised.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    It's all security and protecting the dealership's interest. Valid driver's license and insurance and to have a record on file of who is driving the car.

    The salesperson that took the copy of the license's along with him missed the whole point of making a copy. He is supposed to leave it at the dealership.

    About a year ago, a friend of mine had a gun pulled on him and a Maxima stolen in broad daylight. Another friend of mine was put out of the vehicle in the middle of the test drive. She was left in the middle of a cul-de-sac at gunpoint.

    Ya, you need a copy and you need to be careful.
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    You mean cuddle sack, right? :P
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Chuck,

    If you keep your financial affairs in order and pay your bills a dealer will try to take advatage of it.

    That's ridiculous.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    :D

    Ahh yes, GP's cuddle sack.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yes, I wish he would explain what he meant by that!
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Because I pay my bills and my credit is outstanding the dealer tried to take advantage of this by not agreeing to my "best price" immediately. I was ready to write a personal check for the entire amount of the vehicle. But the dealer told me..."With your good credit you could finance the difference". How is that not trying to take advantage?

    No trying to bash dealers...I now know next time. No five liners until the price is agreed upon...period!
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Chuck,

    If it wasn't your "outstanding credit" than it would be something else. It's called negotiations. They are giving you options for them to make more money.

    Pretty simple, really. Not taking advantage at all.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I have a story about that. When I was shopping for a new MINI I went to the dealership (where, at the time, the MINIS were flying out the door while I watched).

    Back then I had a rating I think of something like 840. The salesman (great guy) looked at the sheet, looked up at me and said:

    "geez, how many you want?"

    He spent a lot of time with me. I WANTED to like the product, but the product was not his fault. I think he understood that money was not the issue here.

    We were, all in all, pretty up front with each other. Also, being a busy day, I did NOT waste his time. I asked to take the car out myself while he worked the floor and he was fine with that.

    Will I go back to him when the improved MINI is out? You bet I will.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Huh? You think just because you have an excellent credit score the dealer should "lay down" for you and agree to your first offer? His job is to bump you. Don't take it personal, just politely but firmly tell him No.
  • willsing4gumbowillsing4gumbo Member Posts: 5
    Due to the storms in the Gulf region, our cars are being held at the port. We actually sell many more new than used, so it does hurt. Sadly, our fellow Gulf Mazda dealers lost a lot of inventory, as well. We have '09s on the ground, and have a great selection of Mazda3, our crossovers, Miatas, and RX-8s. The redesigned 09 Mazda6s sell as fast as we can get them in. I only have one Touring in stock. Sold the last Grand Touring Saturday, and our base was gone before it got here. Tributes are extremely hot right now, and I am down to 3 '09s. Things are very good here for Team Zoom Zoom in Gulfport, MS. I love my job, my co-workers, and my product. ;)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "...Yes, I wish he would explain what he ment by that!..."

    I never considered that possibility. The salesman seeing that you have excellent credit figures you for a rich guy who can afford to be bumped to a higher price. Not that anyone here would do such a thing, but that one bad guy out in Kansas might be tempted.

    Next time I go car shopping I'll dress like a hobo and bring the FICO score of someone from the homeless shelter. That should get me a real low price. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    or you could dress like an old farmer! :shades:

    Let's face it. The people you meet in your showroom has a lot to do with the product you happen to be selling, not just the credit score.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Now you know why plants die in car showrooms

    That was great! ;) ... on many levels of humor.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Some showrooms are reasonably happy places, some are toxic. We've all been there.
  • percussionistpercussionist Member Posts: 204
    It's called negotiations. They are giving you options for them to make more money.

    But in this case, the option was to raise the price. Once they found out that Chuck could qualify for lots of loan money, they figured that he should. I'm with Chuck on this - what difference does his payment method have on the price of the object? Keep in mind that his offer was accepted, so the value must have been appropriate for both the customer and the dealer.

    The options should have been laid out in financing terms based on the negotiated price, not the "finance the difference" offer it sounds like.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Credit rating of buyer and volume of cars on the lot are irrelevant factors in determining price buyer will pay.

    Desperation of seller and urgency of buyer has much more to do with price.

    Urgent buyers rarely meet urgent sellers because once realized...the other becomes less urgent.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Chuck offered a certain amount of money. When the dealership asked him why he was offering that amount, he responded with "That's all I have". So the dealership tried to overcome that objection with financing. Put a certain amount of money down and finance the rest. He could have had a 500 beacon score and they still would have come up with that. It's negotiations. It's a bump. They wanted to make more money. Chuck wanted to save more money.

    At no point in time was anyone "taken advantage of". That makes zero sense.

    You may ask, how do I know this is what happened at the dealership? Because I've seen it hundreds of times before.
  • hondamattnjhondamattnj Member Posts: 53
    The reason for taking a copy of the DL when going on a test drive is 1.) to ensure the customer has a DL; 2.) You have a record of the customer incase they try to steal the car and/or the salesperson.

    Believe it or not, a dealership here in Arizona had a guy carjack a salesperson at gunpoint after handing over a copy of his real DL to the sales manager. They caught him a few hours later.

    We had a salesperson get carjacked a few months ago and the DL turned out to be fake. Not much you can do there but try to protect yourself and your salespeople as much as possible.

    As far as "five-liners" go, there are a few reasons you run one. You should only need it as you negotiate the specifics of the deal or after the handshake. I might run a five-liner on a customer if we are trying to reach a certain payment. A quick look at their credit might allow us to offer an extended term or a lower rate.

    When working with a cash deal, I run a five-liner to run credit because an OFAC alert will show up on the bureau. The other reason I might run a bureau for a cash deal is if the customer is paying by check and taking delivery of the vehicle on the spot. You can see if the guy has assets, pays his bills ontime, etc and will make good on the check he's about to stroke.
  • fadetoblackiifadetoblackii Member Posts: 29
    I was ready to write a personal check for the entire amount of the vehicle.

    Who cares?

    I still don't understand this notion of "if I pay cash, I'll get a discount."

    I've heard it multiple times from clients of mine since I started selling and I don't understand where it comes from. There is no dealership that I know of that would rather you pay cash than finance. They simply aren't making any more money when you pay cash. They don't want you to pay cash if they can get you to finance, and even if it's just a couple grand, it's still better than nothing.

    That said, I think some of these other guys were right. They were just trying to negotiate with you just like you didn't take their first offer on price either.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I've heard it multiple times from clients of mine since I started selling and I don't understand where it comes from.

    I may be wrong but I believe it comes from the time when a dealer put up their own money to finance someone (in house financing). Maybe 30-40 years ago there wasn't an easy way to track folks who missed payments, and hence a cash transaction was preferred. For some reason many a buyer these days think that we prefer cash, and although it's respectable of them to save up an amount that large, or get their own loan, it doesn't makie a difference, to us how you pay.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Maybe 30-40 years ago there wasn't an easy way to track folks who missed payments, and hence a cash transaction was preferred.

    Yes that was back in the day after the Great Depression when cash was king. It was when oldfarmer was young. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    do they still call dealer financing a "mouse house"? I think that was only for small used car lots actually.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Haha, a "house mouse" is the salesperson that gets all the "cheese". Managers get referrals and then hand them off to salespeople. Many times, all the deals go to one salesperson.

    I'm not sure how you got that mixed up with financing. ;)
  • bkswardbksward Member Posts: 93
    For some reason many a buyer these days think that we prefer cash, and although it's respectable of them to save up an amount that large, or get their own loan, it doesn't makie a difference, to us how you pay.

    I think it actually goes to other transactions that people have. It isn't a 30 or 40 year memory, its that if you go into many retail merchants, they may offer a cash discount. The reason is if it is cash vs. credit card, credit cards take a cut based on a per-transaction fee and a percentage of the total as well. To a small time vendor that cut could be a few percent. And they might be willing to share some of that savings with you.

    What car buyers don't think about is that if you arrange the financing, then you get a cut of the money, not Visa or MasterCard... so its a lack of knowing whose bread gets buttered by selling financing.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I test drive the demo

    and

    test drive the the actual car that is on my invoice before I drive back home.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I still don't understand this notion of "if I pay cash, I'll get a discount."

    technically, one should get a discount, if paying cash because there are no middleman commissions involved in the process.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    It isn't a 30 or 40 year memory, its that if you go into many retail merchants, they may offer a cash discount.

    I noticed that using a retail merchant's charge card offers you the biggest discount. Macy's, Sears, etc.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    OFAC alert! Out For A Cruise.....?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "...it doesn't make a difference, to us how you pay..."

    That may change soon. Did you see what happened on wall street today?

    In the not too distant future the only people buying cars may be the misers who saved up their cash in the sock drawer. :cry:

    What will you guys do when no one can get financed?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    IT'S NOT ABOUT PAYING CASH!!! It's the total amount I am willing to pay for the vehicle. I have also financed cars and it's the same deal. I know what the price should be. I have a loaned lined up through my credit union, bank, whatever. The dealer has the option of beating the rate. But I am not a "payment buyer".

    But I know what the price should be. So the dealer would probably say - well instead of going 36 months you could go 48 and pay more. This would take care of the difference.

    Such a deal!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "...OFAC alert! Out For A Cruise....?..."

    No, it stands for Old Farts Always pay Cash (OFAC). ;)

    They usually dress like old farmers too. :P

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    LOL. That's true but I figured it would be Jipster or jmonroe who picked up on it.

    I wouldn't have disappointed you oldfarmer, but the remnants of Hurricane Ike came thru Louisville the other day and our electrical power was just restored about an hour ago.

    We had sustained high winds of 50-70 mph over a 7 hour period. Lost 20% of limbs and foliage off a 100 year old sugar maple in our backyard., one of which stuck in the roof of our detached garage, the backboard of our basketball goal got blown out, and a downspout got ripped off. Lots of houses in the area have trees on top of them, so could have been a lot worse. The main thing though, is that I'm back on Edmunds, and can start whipping out the zingers again ( I owe you one) . ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    You could be right. That fits me to a "T".

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    AIG holds note on many many car loans like a car mortgage Fanny/Freddie.

    AIG told Warren Buffet to take a hike. They said we want your best price (on a bridge loan) and we're not paying a document fee or shipping charges.

    Financing will be choked shortly and that will burst the car price bubble.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Never heard the term "house mouse" but the term "mouse house" applies to the buy here pay here lots which are also called "note lots".

    People with bad credit pay a lot of money for the cars these places sell and they pay a LOT of interest too.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You may not be a "payment buyer" but you aren't a "cash buyer" either.

    The car either has a loan or it does not.

    " But I know what the price should be" You do?

    the dealer knows what he wants to get for the car too. Asking for a bump isn't criminal. It's business.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    OK if you say so....but it's my option not to tilt my hand as far as my credit is concerned if I am cutting a check until the price is a done deal.

    I am cutting a check for the entire amount (that I have determined I will pay for the car) and I am not a "cash buyer". How so? I would think the dealer only has to run a 5 liner after the transaction to see if they could finance in the event my check would not clear.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't know about other stores but I could care less what your credit score is. If you make a low offer, I will ask you to make a more reasonable offer. If we can't come to terms, I want you to leave happy and not feeling like I tried to pull something on you.

    Unless I misread your post, your car would have a loan on it from your credit union, right? If so, you aren't a "cash" buyer since the CU will have a lien on that car.

    When customers get their own loans the dealers receive payment through the lenders not from a check written by the customer.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    "Urgent buyers rarely meet urgent sellers because once realized...the other becomes less urgent."

    Absolutely. My favorite phrase is "he (or she) who cares least always wins the negotiation."

    If you always have a plan B (C & D, too) & are ready to walk, you don't ooze that which the professionals feed on.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes a mouse house is like one of those used car lots where you pay $25 a week on the clapped out stove you bought. They are a dying breed no doubt about it and really not a credit to the industry as a whole.

    The term "stove" was also used to describe big, obsolete American cars that nobody wanted in the 70s and 80s.

    Do salesmen still use the term "walkin' around money?"
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Isell-you misread. I said in this instance I was paying cash from a personal check. I gave another example where I may get a loan from a credit union, bank, etc. but still know what the bottom line is on the car. Then the payments are what they are.
This discussion has been closed.