Stories from the Sales Frontlines

kyfdx

GG, in what suburb are you located? (okay, don't guess on this one)

Here is the guess.. Spotted an '07 X3 at a Lexus dealer... Checked the CarFax, and it went through the auction recently. A friend of mine (car dealer), checked Manheim and found the car. So, I know what it sold for.. (and, yes... I have friends who are car dealers.. amazingly enough!).

So.. '07 BMW X3.. Exactly 2 years old.. 35K big miles... Tons of options, premium pkg, xenons, heated seats front and rear, NAV system, etc, etc..

Any guesses on what this went for at auction? Feel free to look for typical asking prices on Autotrader or Cars.com ..

No prizes... just the self-satisfaction of being a good judge of used car values..

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host--just hanging out

Mr_Shiftright

'bout $23K--$25K at auction, maybe $32K retail?

kyfdx

Good guess..

$24,100 at auction.. Lexus dealer asking $31,900.... :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

That wasn't a good guess that was a GREAT guess! :mad:

I'd guess MSRP with those options was around $43,000, so $20K depreciation in two years---not so great for a BMW. I wonder if the leasing company guessed right on that one.

Of course, retail sale will bring the depreciation down to about $$13K I'd guess. Not the best time to be pushing SUVs.

kyfdx

With NAV, I'd say the MSRP was closer to $46K....

It wasn't a lease though.... It was a trade-in to a local BMW dealer who sent it to auction... Not sure why... Maybe because they have a ton of service loaners to sell that only have 8K-15K miles?

Either that... or there is something wrong with the car that won't allow it to be sold as CPO... Not a weird color or anything... Metallic black with beige leather...

If it had been leased, they would have been way off.. 2 years ago, the 24mo/30K lease had a 65% residual..

The mark-up is just crazy, though... The car is under warranty, so the dealer only has to worry about cosmetics.... It's at a Lexus dealer, so no CPO warranty cost to add... $7800 gross to work with on that one..

mplshondadlr

It could be that it was traded in several months ago and now the dealer was flipped in it - so they sent it to the auction just to get out from under it.

Maybe?

Mr_Shiftright

The mark-up is just about market-correct IMO. I think the dealer just kept his eyes open at the auction and got a good deal for himself. Maybe some people were shy of the miles? Good for the dealer if he clears $5K. He picked it off while people were sleeping.

duke23

New roof coming here as well, Lost alot of shingles, water forced it's way into the house so some drywall replacement . Had I not been in the house the damage would have been worse. We were able to mount the towel brigade for several hours. Lots of debris but thankfully the tree's didn't fall. Neighborhood looks like a chain saw competition was held here. Stores still not back to normal, most running on generators.Odd walking around in the dark. Canned goods but no perishables. 110 mph, Hurricanes blow !Power came on just in time to save the refrigerator contents.

Post I made in another forum.
All in all Rather lucky I'd say. 4:00 am Saturday, Sept 13th. Ike is officially a category two but was 1 mph shy of category 3, for about 4 hours you'd hear a train type noise alternating with the windows moaning.I know , weird but I don't know how else to describe it. I was asleep my wife couldn't and was up watching tv. The cable went first, then the power would go out for 30 seconds to a minute and come back on again. This happened 12 times in 45 minutes and the 13th time it didn't come back on. At 6 am the water started coming in from the atriums, towels and sheets were deployed immediately and sopping ones brought to the washer until finally the band passed us and we were in tropical storm, more sheets and towels, noise but not the " moaning" . My land line seemed to survive and I made a few calls. By 3:30 the telephone was mysteriously dead. Hmmm. I am dsl so goodbye internet as well. Open windows, high 80's but humidity at 99.9% so picture real feel of mid 90's . We read books in cloudy light then listened to the radio on battery. Cold shower and then bed. Awake Sunday and I tell the better half that I'm not going to do it again. I went through a week of no power and water with Alicia and I'm older and more sane now. Let's find a motel/hotel with power and check in. We go looking but there are no such with power. A local grocery chain has opened for business, HEB. Their sign is dark as is their store. We need Ice and batteries as what is in our fridge/freezer will spoil soon.Large cardboard signs penned in magic marker on each side on the entry with bouncer turning away those seeking the impossible.No ice, no water, no batteries, no bread, no meat, no fish, no produce or imperishables. Cash only and no change. We leave but I embrace a good feeling toward this chain as at least they were trying. 10:30 Pm Monday, the power comes on. Yippee !!!!
First they were saying 1-2 weeks and then 2-3 weeks and finally 3-4 weeks before final power restoration . Centerpoint, the infrastructure provider for Harris county, flew in 7,000 workers from other power companies to get things up and running asap. First was health, second was water and/or critical needs last was least damage to power grid going toward most. My office, another county and another power grid infrastructure does not have power so I sit home on Monday. Tuesday as well as I contemplate going to the other side of town to conduct business . Tuesday 5;30 pm, Phone comes back on as well as dsl. Hooray! Office has gotten power so I can go to tomorrow. Double Hooray. Thoughts : I am truly lucky / blessed.They were talking 3-4 weeks and here I am almost 100% restored in in under 4 days.

oldfarmer50

Has the auto sales market bottomed out so bad that there are no stories to tell?

Come on guys, there has to be a good tale about some dead-beat or a grinder that made you want to scream.

The only possibility is that no one is moving any iron. Say it ain't so.

verdugo

He always had interesting stories and from the F&I point of view to boot.

Hope he didn't leave b/c of the trolls.

A.

duke23

Normalcy shall return, As all are aware , graphicguy has been carrying the brunt with his customer perspective. But living in an extended stay hotel while dealing with making your home liveable tends to alter your perspective. We deviate for a short time. Good wishes to those that that were not impacted by Ike. And good wishes to those that were. This forum shall revert to sales stories, but in the interim apologies for any inconvenienced, or by any who are tired of tales of calamity. I myself am aghast that a storm could hit Houston dead on and have enough power to inflict major damage in Ohio.

Anyway, the government has bailed out all financial institutions and this will free up capital to finance new auto loans. Previously banks were too scared to part with their capital, they might need it to offset their bad mortgage loans. So this is good news for the auto industry. Leases can continue, customers can get approved for loans and chicken little will not prevail. Salesman won't have to settle for a mini and prosperity will ensue. Oh yeah, the taxpayer pays. No trolls I've seen V except the large cap guy.

mattandi

Shoot, they can't get anyone financed with less than a 735

no wait, 753

no, 765

hold on, 780

um, 799

Mr_Shiftright

You'd better hope it's not 799. That would knock out about 99% of America.

kiawah

and the remaining 1% wouldn't be borrowing in the first place..............

mikefm58

Has FEMA declared your county a disaster area? If not, pay close attention to it. They did when Hurricane Charlie came through Orlando in 2004. People were reimbursed for generators, chain saws, etc. A laundry list if items were eligible as long as there insurance didn't cover it. Gotta love FEMA.

To keep this on topic, let's hope the bottom-less pit Bank of Good Ole USofA is successful buying out Wall Street freeing up lots of money for car loans.

cdnpinhead

"I don't want the government involved in any way, shape or form."

Absolutely. I'm guessing you're the kind of person who also isn't interested in a lawsuit at at the drop of a hat. Sometimes, stuff happens -- bad stuff, to good people. That's pretty much the end of it, in the real world. It's nobody's fault & you're on your own (YOYO) -- what a concept.

Hang in there. Sounds like your neighbours are being helpful. This is a good country, when you get down the the individuals.

nyccarguy

I'd say with all of those options, that car stickered for closer to $48K. My wife's '07 X3 had an MSRP of just under $41K and its only options are metallic paint, rear climate package, & heated front seats. Chalk one up for leasing! I'm a big supporter of buying a car and holding on to it until the wheels fall off. I'm glad we leased the X3 (only for the reason if we have to get rid of it for one reason or another) and only have another 1 year & 10 months with it. Great truck though. Lots of fun to drive!

duke23

I know, don't feed'em .
lohungduc wrote rather poorly :
" Been lurking here for quite some time nao. Very interesting story about car buyin and sellin. But no story now? where all good story teller go? all talk about hurricane and blown roof, I happy every one safe, no one die in storm. Any good storie on Hyundai or Kia? "

I have only been in country short distance but already english I speak very well, lohungduc.
Try the genesis forum as Hyundai and Kia are the same company. I;m sure there will be a " storie " to your liking.
Now moving on to sales related. because they can finally GM, draws down some cheap credit.

GM to Tap Rest of $4.5 Billion Credit Line
TSC Staff
09/20/08 - 09:02 PM EDT
General Motors (GM Quote - Cramer on GM - Stock Picks) announced Friday it intends to draw down the remaining $3.5 billion of its $4.5 billion line of credit.

The automaker said the move is aimed at maintaining a "high level of financial flexibility" as it continues to restructure during uncertain times in the capital markets.

"Accessing the funds available to us is a prudent liquidity measure. Drawing on the revolver now improves our liquidity position at a time when the capital markets have become more challenging," said Walter Borst, GM's treasurer.

The company set up the secured revolving credit facility in July 2006 with a consortium of banks.

Also Friday, GM announced the completion of a $322 million debt to equity exchange that the company says will improve its liquidity by reducing debt and interest costs. GM issued 28.3 million new shares of its common stock in exchange for $322 million principal amount of its 1.5% Series D Senior Convertible Debentures, which mature in June 2009.

GM shares finished Friday up $3.15 at $13.08.

So that's one of the big three that look destined to survive. Gm salesmen feel free to comment. Haven't seen too many domestic guys with the exception of a few Chyrsler guys.
Isell has posted but welcoming back mack and greenpea and the rest of the educate your customer and he will sell him/her self salesmen.
Any left out, please don't feel slighted, it is late, I'm tired.

graphicguy

kyfdx......I'm in the vicinity of the old Voice of America..

I'm going to take a WILD guess on the '07 X3. Let's say it was near $40K new. I'm thinking it lost 25% off new being two years old. Now we're at $30K Got some tall miles, soft market. I'm thinking somewhere in the $25K range at auction.

WOOPS....saw the other posts just now. I guess I was in the ballpark.

smwls8

Many moons ago, (93 i think) i bought a new GMC Sonoma pick-up, 2.8 V6 with a 5-speed. I specifically asked the salesman if i could get the truck with the 4.3 V6 with a 5-speed. He told me NO, that combination of engine/transmission did not exist. Several days later i found GMC trucks for sale, you guessed it, equipped with 4.3 V6 with a manual transmission. As luck would have it, I received a telephone call from a gentlemen asking me if I had a few minutes to take a survey over the phone about my recent purchase. I sure did, and I had plenty to tell him about the incorrect information concerning the engine/transmission availability. I had been referred to this particular salesman by a co-worker, who came up to me at the office several weeks later. The co-worker told me the salesman called him in a panic, said his boss called him on the carpet and threatened to fire him over this survey, etc. I was very disappointed in both the dealership and the truck(underpowered), trading it in less than a year. But I had no idea a single survey had so much power, at least it did 15 years ago. On a side note, I am currently serving in Iraq and time spent on Edmunds takes me away from this God forsaken place. Thanks to all of you...

imidazol97

>I am currently serving in Iraq and time spent on Edmunds takes me away from this God forsaken place.

Thank you and the others there for yours service.

graphicguy

I 2nd the thanks for your service to our country.

Regarding the situation with your sales person, it would be my guess that either the sales person didn't know his product very well. Or, that they didn't have that particular configuration in stock.

Don't know if it was the end of the particular model year, but it's relatively easy to order any particular vehicle, in any configuration you want from GM as a special order. That, or a dealer trade would have been in order.

graphicguy

For reasons that are too convoluted to explain, I just got a '96 Mecury Grand Marquis LS under my care. It's all loaded. ~35K miles (literally driven to church and the grocery store). One owner. Clean...never wrecked. No drips, runs or errors. No rust. I've been tasked to sell this sled.

What say you? What's it worth?

isellhondas

If I had to pick a number I would say 4-5000.00.

That is a big, comfortable car that would last someone a long time.

graphicguy

Thanks, Craig. That's around what I was thinking. Have an aunt who went into an assisted living place. She's given up driving.

I'll slap a "4 Sale" sign in it and drive it around town. Somebody will want it as a 2nd car. Good shape both mechanically and cosmetically. Still, it's a 12-13 year old car.

mako1a

GG said-it's relatively easy to order any particular vehicle, in any configuration you want from GM

I haven't been on a Chevy lot in years because they won't put my combination together.

I want a small 4 door chevy like Beretta size with a LS2 or LS6 engine. 350 HP or better.
There was a time when that would be possible if you had the dough re mi.

Now it's all cookie cutter, same same.

If I'm going to buy a car for 25-45k it better be way different than what some guy that saw an ad in the paper buys when he says ho hum, need a new way to get to work.

Let me tell you what combination I want or have fun trying to sell all that generic stuff.

imidazol97

I think you could price it higher. I sent an email to your carspace account, since it would be off topic. Good luck.

Mr_Shiftright

I think isell's number is pretty good as a "take" price. This is a hard sell car right now, and only the miles will save you. By all means, do not turn down $5,000 real dollars for this car, no matter what you might ask. I'd probably start at $5995 and I bet you'll get a few calls with that. I crunch some numbers on Autotrader, averaged out the low miles cars, deducted for negotiated price and I think our numbers are pretty good.

oldfarmer50

"...threatened to fire him over this survey...trading it in less than a year..."

Why would they fire such a great salesman? He got you to buy TWO vehicles in one year. With those kind of sales skills he should make GM pretty soon.

BTW, thanks for your service.

oldfarmer50

"...What's it worth?..."

Edmunds TMV says $2500 private party plus any special options. If you want $4-5K you better put it on Craigslist with one heck of a good story. (the one about driving it to church was OK but you can do better) :P

Here's a few I've seen on Craigslist to help you get started:

"It used to run fine until my idiot son broke the fuel line. I'm too old and fat to fix it."

"It don't run, don't know why, don't care. I want it out of here."

"Runs great. It will probably need a new tranny soon."

Like I say, you can do better.

oldfarmer50

"...I crunched some numbers on Autotrader..."

Are you saying that Edmunds TMV is not the definitive source for such information?

graphicguy

mako....sounds like you want a "hot rod". Gonna have to make it yourself to get what you want.

Not sure you can shoehorn an LS6 into a Beretta. I am sure you could get a crate LS6, get yourself a blow torch and with some "modifications" put that motor in anything you want.

Thanks for putting a number on that Grand Marquis. I really don't want to mess with it. But, it's my hope that a more "senior" person sees it and would like to have a nice, well cared for car that would suit their needs.

Mr_Shiftright

Price guides of any sort are only "ballparks". I always compare them to retail classifieds and see if there's any dis-connect going on. It's very difficult for any price guide to be right on the money on EVERY car they list. In the case of this Mercury Marquis, I thought it was interesting that I found 3 listing on SF craigslist that were double the TMV and quite a few Autotrader ads that were somewhat higher.

So either a) TMV is right and the three sellers are all crazy and the Autotrader ads are too optimistic b) TMV was basically right but did not add enough for extra low miles, c) the three sellers are right, and TMV is wrong or d) the Autotrader ads reflect big geographical differences whereas TMV locks into one zip code.

I really don't know the answer, but as they say when it comes to pricing "you can go down but you can't go up"

I think TMV is pretty darn good but not so much on older cars. They don't pick up nuances of collectibility or "situational utility"--- for instance, old pickups are worth more to people than price guides think they are, and so to with old diesel cars, or for that matter, old Geo Metros.

chikoo

>I am currently serving in Iraq and time spent on Edmunds takes me away from this God forsaken place.

Interestingly, that is the place(or whereabouts) where 2 most popular versions of God came from.....I wonder why?

I get it!

God is the peace maker and you need to "sell/market" peace makers where they are needed most :shades:

chikoo

>Why would they fire such a great salesman? He got you to buy TWO vehicles in one year. With those kind of sales skills he should make GM pretty soon.

I bet he did....if he survived that ordeal, he darned very well is on his way up

smwls8

He did not get my business the second time around, went back to Ford(F150 4x4). And he did not lose his job over the survey, but the dealer later sold the dealership, and where he went from there....?

hondamattnj

Is it a GS or an LS? Frankly, I wouldn't even put an asking price. I would put a for sale sign on it and write 'Make Offer' on it.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah he could do that although I always think that just invites low-ballers. But maybe I'm too cynical.

If I had no money in the car, or no obligation to get top dollar, on a 12 year old Mercury I would unload it on the first buyer who can find my house and who doesn't rent his furniture.

isellhondas

On a car that age, it wouldn't matter much if it's a GS or an LS.

Those are comfortable roomy cars that are pretty dependable. You can forget what the price guides say on cars that unique.

Look at it this way, what exactly will 5000.00 buy these days? This would be a lot of car for those dollars.

And I would never put Make Offer on it. You'll attract flakes that way.

Or you could paint it black and white and have fun scaring people with it!

kyfdx

I don't bother with those ads... I just move on to the next one..

95% of the time, that's someone that wants too much for their car.. Same with real estate..

boomchek

For me personally, I don't like for sale ads without a price, unless the vehicle is truly unique one of a kind car that no one else has and the seller has the luxury of collecting bids from a lineup of potential buyers.

lemmer

I automatically skip any ads that don't have prices. Some websites give you the choice of only looking at cars with prices. If that option is available, I choose it.

isellhondas

Our website will leave a few prices blank on some of our used cars. We don't do this on purpose but sometimes we don't know what the recon costs are going to be etc.

The people who call on these cars always act like they think the car should be thousands of dollars less then the really are.

oldfarmer50

"...It's very difficult to be right on the money on EVERY car..."

I always thought that TMV was an average of ACTUAL sales. Maybe it's tougher with private party to collect accurate data.

"...I found 3 listings on SF craigslist that were double the TMV..."

Well that explains it. You combine craigslist (with it's pipe dream prices) and San Francisco (where they sell the pipe) and you could get any price you wanted.

"...TMV is pretty good but not so much on older cars..."

Good point. I've cross checked TMV with KBB and NADA on some older cars and TMV is always substantully less. Of course you know what the sellers use to price their cars...it ain't TMV.

isellhondas

How can they find out what a used car sold for? If I sold you a used car, I sure wouldn't disclose what you paid for it. And if I bought one from you there is no way I would tell someone who asked unless they were a friend.

And they can't find out from the salesor use taxes paid because people don't always tell how much they really paid so they won't have to pay as much tax to the DMV.

All used cars are different and prices can vary widely between two seemingly alike cars.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you could always do an eBay auction and put a really high reserve on it, run it for ten days, start with a $500 first bid and see how far it runs up. If you get 35-30 bidders from across the country bidding it up to say $3,500, then that's as good as TMV if you ask me.

isellhondas

I agree, unless you just happen to get a couple of competitive bidders that just HAVE to win.

I've seen this happen at old car auctions and the sellers love it!

It becomes a personal thing between two aggressive bidders and the cars can sell for WAY more than they would otherwise.

I suppose this can happen on Ebay too?

Mr_Shiftright

only if your girlfriends are watching the bidding. That's how it works in real auctions.

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. All the rest is moonshine, or perhaps an educated guess. But a science? Only in the way economics is a "science".

lparrish

One thing that really confuses me...it seems like, generally, KBB is always higher than Edmunds TMV

I have a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid that I think about selling every so often. Seems like it is the exception to the rule. When I look at both, KBB is easily $1500-2000 less for a private party sale than Edmunds. Is it just that KBB is behind Edmunds because of the low availability? I don't know which to take seriously...

houdini1

Hmmm.....I see 2008 Grand Marquis program cars advertised for sale in my area for around $15,000. $5,000 seems high for one that is 12 years old but good luck.