Stories from the Sales Frontlines

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but the MILES are fabulous...under 35,000 and car is allegedly like new. How much are low miles worth? Probably $1,500 bucks??? That's like most 2 year old Mercurys out there.

bolivar

'Family' has about the same thing. An early or mid 90's Grand Marquis. An elderly aunt died and left it around. A couple of years ago it went on a road trip with 3/4 people (multi-car caravan) and luggage in it. It pulled 22/23 mpg all the way.

It has been hit, we think in the front suspension, but from behind the rear sags to one side. We don't understand this, but that is what it does.

It also went on a 'day' trip a while ago with 4/5 people in it, and the driver was able to hussle it quite nicely thru the twisties.

Overall, it's very surprising what this old, large sedan can do.

graphicguy

bolivar....these cars are what they are. They're relatively bulletproof. With a tried and true drive train. Yes, the steering is over boosted and numb. As a "body on frame" car, it can "shudder" a bit over big bumps. Forget anything resembling lateral support from the seats.

But, I wouldn't hesitate to take this car cross-country with 5 people and their luggage in comfort.

If someone really wanted something that is solid for another 100,000 trouble free miles for relatively "cheap", this would be the car.

This one would truly be a "gas and go" car. Nothing needs to be done to it...NOTHING!

I don't know that you could say that about any other car in the $3K-$5K range.

The key is to find the person who understands that. I do want to sell it quickly. Like any sales person here, I've been charged to getting as much for it as I can, though.

If I needed another car (which I need like a hole in the head), I'd give $4,500 for it myself.

graphicguy

lparrish.....those Escape Hybrids are kind of the forgotten vehicles of all the hybrids out there. IIRC, Ford has offered some type of big mileage warranty on the drivetrain. I'd make it a point to make that known in any ad, because that's probably the first potential buyer will think..."what kind of warranty work am I going to need with this hybrid"? Obviously, I'd stress the MPG that this vehicle gets, too.

Depending on where you live, if winter driving is a concern, I'd probably emphasize it's bad weather prowess, as well as its fuel economy.

I think you can debate who is more correct in their used vehicle assessments....KBB vs Edmunds. At the end of the day, it's kind of like searching in the dark regarding what some of these "special" vehicles are worth.

Put Edmunds TMV in an ad. If you get no takers or calls, start dropping the price in $200-$300 increments.

oldfarmer50

"...Yeah but the MILES are fabulous...under 35000..."

KBB with those miles is about $3100 in good condition and about $3500 in excellent. But as you say, a car is worth what someone will pay.

I saw a low mileage (47K) 1995 Ford Taurus near me for $995 which is right on with the books--Edmunds--$1024 and KBB--1100.

BTW, I might be willing to go $4000 for grandma's Grand Marquis if GG will deliver it to upstate NY.

Mr_Shiftright

shoot I'd blow it out the door for $3,500 in a red hot minute.

graphicguy

oldfarmer.....done deal. I'll put it on one of those shipping trucks sitting idle with tons of new cars at a nearby holding lot. You might not get it 'till Christmas, though... :P

Sorry shifty....you got outbid......

explorerx4

the other side of the picture is that 'why should i pay for low miles when a 100k is just as good?' is this a base model or is there something other than the low miles to recommend it?

Mr_Shiftright

Given that statistically a car's life is over at 175K, when the engine gets very very tired, or let's say 200K for argument's sake, then how can 100K be just as good. It's the "second half of life" and like our own, not the best half :P

explorerx4

hey, hey, i only have about 52k on my life. all i am saying is that gg needs to be prepared for that question. someone is going to try to talk him down based on the age, while downplaying the low mileage.

jmonroe

Sorry shifty....you got outbid......

I’ve lurked long enough with this Grand Marquis thing. It looks like ‘oldfarmer’ is in cahoots with you in trying to drive up the price and I doubt he’s even been in one lately. Whereas, last summer (2007), while on vacation in FT. Lauderdale, I rented one of those boats and was amazed at everything about it. From its comfortable ride, roominess for 4 adults, power/gas mileage (for its size) and the softness of the leather seats which were the real surprise when I compared them to the BMW’s when we came out of a restaurant and looked at BMW’s at the dealership next door.

As you know, I live in the Burgh and delivering it to me would have been soooo much easier than upstate New York but you (and ‘oldfarmer’) blew that deal. I’d have gone $3850 for the beast. Kinda reminded me of the ride I got from the 80’ Park Ave. I had until 97’.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

yeah oldfarmer could be a shill, like we sometimes see at classic car auctions...or "chandelier bids" is another way to get the job done. We should demand photographic evidence. :P

graphicguy

j....your post got me to thinking (always a dangerous proposition). The Crown Vics/Marquis are still selling in reduced numbers. But, they're still selling.

I think that's a testament to their overall robustness. It hasn't hurt that Ford has been making these for so long, relatively unchanged, that they've "got it" down right how to put them together. Add to that, there's an unwillingness of some consumers to give up the classic V8, full size, V8 powered car here in the U.S.....regardless of what's happening with gas prices (although these things are frugal compared to SUVs and Pickups).

I saw a Chrysler New Yorker (no, not the FWD V6 version) yesterday. It was complete with crushed velour interior, "faux" crystal hood emblem, gaudy instrumentation, 1/2 landau roof, opera lights, etc. I don't even know the year....when was the last time they made these?

You can say these cars are dinosaurs. But, they run....and run....and run....with easy maintenance, good comfort. And, as you point out, the leather (at least in the GM) is as thick and soft as anything on the market today.

I've been invited to a private unveiling of the new '09 Acura TL on Friday. Not remotely in the market. But, being a car hound, I'll go drink their wine. Eat their food. Go for a spin. Maybe I'll even drive the Grand Marquis to the event and get the dealer to put a price on it.

tjc78

I saw a Chrysler New Yorker (no, not the FWD V6 version) yesterday.

I think the last year for them was 88 or 89. I know my neighbor had an '86 white w/red leather. I think he had well over 200K when he finally sold it on the orig engine and second trans. Another thing I remember was that car had the most fridgid a/c I have ever felt. As for the GM my grandfather has an '04 Ultimate and I can honestly say I enjoy driving the thing. Something about the "old school" nature of that car. And as pointed out the leather is great, better than that on my '06 Avalon.

lemmer

Pretty sure the tooling on the Crown Vic has been fully amortized for about a zillion years. Nothing but a cash cow now.

oldfarmer50

"...You might not get 'till Christmas..."

Hoo boy, thank you Santa!.

One final wack at the dead horse. Right after I posted my last message I searched my local Craigslist for that car. I found a 1997 with 70K asking $4300.

So I guess Shifty was right on the prices these are going for. You should get between $4K and $5K.

graphicguy

Seeing an awful lot of "creative" advertising going on in the car ads.

Some of the car ads I'm seeing in some of the "neighborhood" weeklies.....

-this is for a '06 Impala......"totally maintenance free" in big letters. In a much smaller font it says "maintenance free battery"

-(Big lettering)....$20,000 for a 2008 Cadillac. (small font) "2008 Cadlllac CTS demonstrator, base equipment. $12,000 down or trade equity".

-"Very Rare Lincoln Mark LT-Hottest Pickup on the Market" Oooooh...since when? They're so "hot" they decided not to make them anymore.

dino001

Wow, now we're coming to 12K trade. My local screamers have "only" 3 grand trade or cash and are used on 15-18K cars. For some reason most Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler guys use them, others not so frequently.

boomchek

Add to that, there's an unwillingness of some consumers to give up the classic V8, full size, V8

I love the feel of those old boats. Plenty of power, superb comfort, you can steer it with your pinky.

Sometimes the complex technology and electronic nannies on new cars makes me just want to buy something simple like an old V8 tank. Those cars get you relaxed when behind the wheel. :shades:

houdini1

That might be an excellent car to drive on those days when it seems that everyone is trying to run over you. You could just ram them and go on about your business.

roadburner

Sometimes the complex technology and electronic nannies on new cars makes me just want to buy something simple like an old V8 tank. Those cars get you relaxed when behind the wheel.

My father owned a 1996 Lincoln Mark VII LSC. That was one sweet car. In my opinion, Lincoln "lost the plot"(as the Brits say) with the Mark VIII. I still toy with idea of finding a clean 1991 LSC and slipping in a hot Ford crate motor. Talk about a sleeper...

kyfdx

1986, maybe?

My aunt had an '85.. She cried when they totaled it.. She loved that car!

roadburner

1986, maybe?

Yes, my mistake. A friend of mine's father also had a Mark VII. When his dad died my friend asked me if I'd be interested in buying it. I was- until I found out that it wasn't an LSC. Rather, it was a full-tilt AARP edition- complete with a vinyl roof and those awful fake wire wheel covers...

bksward

Then there are the new, slightly smaller boats...

I spent 10 days driving a 3700 lb Charger a few weeks back. The 187 hp of the rent-a-car 2.7 liter V-6 wasn't exciting, but it was more power than the 80s Caprice I drove way back when...

Now, I didn't compare the odometer to the mile markers on the interstate, so I don't know if it was spinning too fast, but 1200 miles of 31 mpg driving was impressive for a car of that size... even if the odo was reading 10% high, 28 would still be pretty impressive...

explorerx4

i have had my eye on this car for a while: 89 mkvii

roadburner

i have had my eye on this car for a while: 89 mkvii

Very nice!

traindriver

What did a LSC have that other Marks didn't have? (upgraded trim, bigger motor, ??)

Regarding explorers Lincoln ad: It states that the car lives in a "car collector community." I've heard of a "fly-in" community but never a car collector community. Sounds like my kind of neighborhood...

oregonboy

I thought those were pretty cool when they first came out. Not so much so now. Just another big old-tech boat. Sorry, just my PPOV. :shades:

kyfdx

Sport suspension.. Alloy wheels.. Black-out trim (vs.chrome)..

Great leather sport seats...

Same engine, I think, but with a more aggressively tuned transmission.. Basically the same engine as the Mustang GT..

I guess it was the most "euro" version of a Lincoln...

Plus, most LSCs were loaded with every option..

explorerx4

do you remember there was a version with a 2.4 bmw turbo diesel?

kyfdx

A Lincoln with the BMW diesel?

That one must have got by me...

Mr_Shiftright

You were probably in diapers then. 1984-1985, even offered in the Continental. Not a home run kind of car.

kyfdx

Uh yeah... diapers.. that's it!

I do remember my neighbor in '85 that had a Camry diesel...

Diesels were semi-popular in the early '80s... I just never heard that Lincoln's diesels were sourced from BMW. (Who also had a little trouble selling them... )

explorerx4

from wiki:

"The engine choices were a 5.0 L V8 and an ultra-rare (200-500 made) 2.4 L Straight-6 diesel. The diesel was a BMW design with a turbocharger. Rumors have it that a 5-speed manual transmission was bolted to at least 1 of these diesels. It was available on all trim levels until the engine was dropped after 1985."

Engine options:

2.4 L I6, 115 hp (86 kW) Diesel (1984-1985) w/ ZF 4 Speed Automatic

Mr_Shiftright

The price guides actually deduct for the diesel engine option. That's not a good sign.

jescue

I prefer a good old Oldsmobile Diesel myself. :lemon:

laurasdada

I open the dictionary to look up the word, "oxymoron."

The definition presented: "a good old Oldsmobile Diesel."

Look forward to the return of some of the "old guard" here...

roadburner

The BMW diesel was a great engine for its time, but the Mark VII was simply too heavy to allow the turbo diesel to shine. The 524td didn't sell all that well either(at the US press intro one of the BMW suits thanked GM for "single handedly destroying the market for diesel passenger cars in North America") but the E28 platform mated to the diesel resulted in a pleasant drive.

duke23

laurasdada wrote:
" open the dictionary to look up the word, "oxymoron."

The definition presented: "a good old Oldsmobile Diesel."

Look forward to the return of some of the "old guard" here open the dictionary to look up the word, "oxymoron."

Look forward to the return of some of the "old guard" here.

Right, right, you're bloody well right. Oldsmobile & diesel should not go in the same sentence. Be on guard against the old purchasing strategies. A wink is good as a nod I say.

laurasdada

Duke, you're just Super, you Tramp, you...

graphicguy

duke.....car companies (especially, the Europeans) have tried desperately to market diesels in the U.S. Never have had any luck. I do remember my older sister "lusting" after a Rabbit diesel. I was just a kid, but I remember her bringing home brochures for it. How you can "lust" after a diesel anything is foreign to me. But, at the time, I guess it was supposed to be a "cool" car to have.

I also remember my late Father telling her that there was no way he'd ever allow anything but an American made car pull into our driveway. Then, he went on to rail on her about how bad diesels were. I've driven a current iteration a couple of years ago....a VW TDI to be exact.

Torquey, without a doubt. Ran out of steam real quickly, though. Still, any benefit a diesel has regarding MPG is more than offset by the higher prices of diesel fuel. This is particularly true with hybrids, that achieve, and exceed, any MPG benefits over diesels.

From what I've read of GM's diesel cars, they were a disaster. Then again, so were the cylinder deactivation technologies during their first go rounds with them. Now, cylinder deactivation technology is everywhere.

Mr_Shiftright

How do they say it: "Pioneers get arrows in their back, settlers get the land"?

OLD DAYS VS. NEW DAYS

In the "old days" (my dad worked for Packard-Studebaker and then Lincoln-Mercury, and I'd hang out as a kid in the showrooms), salesmen, (and they were ALWAYS men back then) would spend a lot of time type-casting potential customers.

Back then (the 60s) their big dread was the "pipe-smoker", which was likely to be a sure time-waster. Another was the "fruther", or something like that, who was a very protective boyfriend of a young woman shopping for a car (brother + father is were it came from).

I wonder, by dress or mannerism, sets off an immediate alarm to the modern salesperson? Obviously a homeless person or a naked man wearing a propeller beanie, but I mean more SUBTLE things you could share? Is it father and daughter? a cop? Someone wearing a baseball cap on backwards?

I haven't a clue anymore.

oldfarmer50

"...I wonder, by dress or mannerism, sets off an immediate alarm..."

I think it has been mentioned several times here that shoes and watches are the tell for car salespeople today.

BTW, on my last car purchase I DID NOT wear my propeller beanie.

Mr_Shiftright

Your reaction to this question posed in our Answers Department please?

http://answers.edmunds.com/question-How-negative-equity-dealer-take-30628.aspx

tidester

Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer? would be better suited for that question.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

Mr_Shiftright

Well all right then, I will just pick up my little question and motor on over there!

boomchek

I wonder, by dress or mannerism, sets off an immediate alarm to the modern salesperson?

When I was on the floor I avoided the ones with clip boards and Lemon Aid books.

It's nice that they were well informed, it's good, however, they'd take 2 hours and make notes on every used car on the lot for their research to buy within 6 months to a year. (I'd tell them that many of these cars will be gone in a matter of weeks).

Since Lemon Aid typically lists EVERY car as having some sort of a problem, they had their guard up even on very reliable Civic and Corollas and interrogated you about them like a detective on CSI.

Other than that I typically stayed away from Real Estate agents. Granted I had one, who was a nice guy and bought quickly, but most are time wasters. You'd think that since they're in sales they appreciate your time with them, but it seems like they're the pickiest and undecisive bunch of buyers.

Mr_Shiftright

See I never would have guessed that one, about real estate agents. You'd think all you'd need to do is give them back some of their BS. :P Use words like "amenities".

isellhondas

Backward baseball cap is an instant turnoff for me.

chikoo

I read the face, not the clothes.....Clothes lie. Faces don't.