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Comments
Richard
Besides me and snake... who would they be?
Heck, some of you may think I'm not such a bad guy after all
Just don't put me on the back porch and it's a deal.
Speaking of paying full boat on a car. My brother says he is going into the dealership tomorrow to order a Chevy Equinox. Said his wife has a list of options she wants, and that the two dealers he went to were sold out and had waiting lists for them. Doesn't sound good. $$$
Let's talk grinding for a moment. You know that I always do this. I'm typically a Type A happy person. Still, I will sit in the dealership for five hours working out the deal. I want and expect the dealer to make some profit. After all, he is in business. At the same time, I'm not going to play baby seal. There isn't a car made that is worth MSRP to me. This is just me. I know that there is some mark up, and I don't intend to pay for all of it. Also, I'm not out to hurt the salesman. If he treats me fairly, I will recommend him time and time again. John sold me my convertible last year. He spent three hours with me as I "grinded". I got a great deal and the two of us are good buddies. I have sent him three customers this year. Whether they "grinded" or not is their business. I simply told them that John was a super salesman and that the dealership gave me a good deal.
I expect the salesman, the dealer, and the F&I to all grind. I am not offended by it. How can I be? I'm doing it as well. The entire process can be done in a pleasant and professional manner. If I have to walk, I don't stomp my foot in anger. I simply get up, thank them for their time, and leave. So much of the deal hinges on how both parties conduct themselves.
When I come west to trade with you, I won't be spending three to five hours at your place. We'll have the deal done before I leave North Carolina. I'll just grind you via email. :P
Richard
Weekend is one word not two. :P
ducking and running
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
93 Explorer - whoa, that is a piece of work. We looked at a 94 new and it was way too much of a truck. Ended up in the Windstall. :sick: That was a "well dear, you'll drive it so you pick out the van." I was set to go with a Voyager. At the time the best thing would have been to buy nothing but we were feeling like we had more money than we did. Kind of like going to Florida now.....
Have fun. Back in a few days. Cut isell some slack. I've known him in here for better than 10 years. I've seen him worn down by some pretty dumb former posters....
Creeping up to $2K. Maybe I was "clubbed" and was too "stupid" to know it.
I'm not happy about it either.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We've heard time and again that those who pay "full boat" tend to be the happiest with their purchases. Consequently, they turn in high CSI scores.
Now, is it because it was a quick and easy deal? I would think that if they walk into a dealership, state they'll pay MSRP (and maybe a bit extra for the likes of dealer add-ons), the dealership would immediately accept the offer, shake hands and everyone's happy. No back and forth. No grinding, on either side. Just smiles all the way around.
OK.....why can't the buyer be just as happy, if he/she walks into the same dealership, makes a skinny offer, declines all the add-ons, and the dealership immediately accepts it? A quick handshake.....deal is struck....smiles all around. No grinding....on either end. That would make me happy. I would, and have given a great CSI if and when that happens.
What's this bit about talking through someone else's mouth? Cat got your tongue? :surprise:
I thought we were still friends. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The quick skinny deal that is not an adversarial deal and is not the guy who will roll the bus on CSI. It is the grinder who will negotiate will an attitude, threaten to buy 2 states over (and out here that is quite a feat in it's own right) and do his nasty best to make you a non profit organization that will always kill you on CSI.
So I guess the definition you guys are talking think is good and bad is a little different in real life.
if it isn't driven much, i can stretch out the calendar on those.
just bought and installed a new battery in the 04 escape, replacing the original 6 year old one.
i bought it at the dealer, but resisted the urge to check out the vehicle inventory, although i did browse it online and check the incentives before i went over there.
I'm not a person to cause trouble but when pushed, I'll push back. I don't like blanket statements or mis-information and I don't like to be associated with stores that mistreat their customers. I do try to pull my punches.
Truth be known, I would probably get along with all of you.
So, where and when do we meet? Las Vegas?
Son #2 has a 2002 Explorer (I think that's the year) and unless you have a garage do your brakes they're dirt cheap compared to tires for that beast. He's watched me do a brake job on that thing a couple of times now and is just itching to show you how easy a brake job is on an Explorer. So, if you want to save some bucks, I can give you my address and you can stop over (he likes to do his work over here for moral support and to use my tools). He'll have you in and out in no time. It's just that easy.
I guess one of the things I dislike so much about buying tires is that I can't do that job myself. No matter how good of a deal I can get on them I still have to rely on a tire store for mounting and balancing them. Then I have to make sure they don't over or under torque the lug nuts :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Because they were not arm twisting I was able to think about it for a moment without pressure and I did the deal.
I was happy and have given them solid scores ever since. :shades:
When a customer knows exactly what they want, I don't have to go on mulitple test drives and answer endless questions, I'm fine.
As long as they are friendly and not rushing me to get them out in a half hour and I don't have to listen to screaming kids, no problem at all!
Some of the iron that caught my eye is as follows:
Infinity G37--Very nice, very expensive. $39K for the sedan I saw. I was afraid to look at the sticker on the new 'vert G37 but it looked great with white leather.
BMW 335i--Again, a beautiful machine which I would love to drive before I die. A Black on black model caught my eye until I looked at the sticker, $49K. I figured that it had to be loaded with every option until I looked at the grey one next to it which was $52K. Yikes! Still, if I sold my wife and kids as part of the deal......
Camaro--I don't know why, but I just can't seem to love this new style. It somehow just doesn't look "right". Same for the Challenger. The Mustang is the only retro-muscle car that seems to have the correct style. They're all about the same size inside as my Eclipse which is funny because the Eclipse is a smaller car.
The Camaro had it's hood up and I was disappointed with the way the sheet metal was put together. It looked kind of sloppy next to the Dodge. The Camaro was the star of the show though, everybody wanted to sit in it. At a high 30's price tag I'll pass.
Mazda 6--Very nice looking redesign. Nice interior, new engine. $30K not so nice.
Genesis--I finally got to look at jmonroe's sedan up close. Very few on the road in my area. it was nice inside but didn't do much more for me than a top-of-the-line Honda. That's just me, I'm not currently into luxo-sedans.
The coupe was another matter. That is one sharp looking car. I saw a black on black Track M/T trim for $39K (same as the Infinity). It would be a hard choice if it came down to those two cars.
I also was surprised to find a Land Rover for $37K. I thought they were a lot more expensive. The Range Rover was $65K which is more what I would have thought. I'm not an SUV guy so I'm not clear on the difference between the two.
I was also surprised by the Honda CRV. Very roomy, nice interior and only $23K for the one I saw. That's a lot of car for the money.
I sat in a Mitsubishi Lancer Raliart (detuned EVO) and just loved the seats. Plenty of headroom too. I guess my rump was just made for Mitsus.
I would still be there but Mrs farmer like all good wives brought me back to earth. Her comments consisted mainly of things like "But you don't need ANOTHER car" and "Why are they all black? Aren't there other colors?" and "They all look like boxes to me." She did say that most of the Acuras looked like they had "owl's beaks" and she thought the new Mazda 3 had a "nice smile".
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My friend said he watched them enter the order into Ford's computerized special order forms. Making an assumption here that it was accepted. I would think the Dealership would tell him if it wasn't. Also assuming my friend has some sort of paperwork on it, too. Find out in the next few weeks if/when he gets the vin #.
kyfdx...this dealership is in Ross, OH. Little town that I forgot even existed. It's been a long time since I've even been through that part of OH. Last I remembered, it was in the middle of what I remembered to be mostly a small farming community. Didn't know the dealership was still there. As small as the dealership is, it's still probably one of the biggest businesses entities in Ross.
Who knows....maybe suburban creep is headed out that way. And, the dealership is actually doing well with what I hope to be an expanding customer base from surrounding communities, as a result. I would imagine its overhead is really low. And, that the dealership, as well as the land it sits on, was payed off years ago.
I'm usually good for the first hour or so but then I get tired of answereing the same questions over and over and hearing...
" You would THINK Honda would come out with a ......" or...
" When is Honda going to come out with a Diesel Hybrid?"
" How come ther isn't a full size spare?"
Etc etc etc...
I'll be there in a coat and tie working the floor. I'll walk through the place and look around but after being in the business, new cars don't get me all that excited anymore.
Any locals are welcome to stop by and say hi!
I think you or one of the other sales guys had said the car show time doesn't result in more sales for you. That's a shame. I know that when I was about ready to buy I went to the shows and got business cars from the respective sales people. If I had chosen to buy a particular model I would have sought out the person from the show.
I supose that the person who comes into your store is more "ready to buy" than the show lookie-loos.
I understand your frustration about answering the same question over and over. One year I sold 5000 identical plants at the farmers' market. Every buyer asked "How do I take care of this plant?"
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
sitecite us the very few "hot" cars that go for MSRP because there are very few of them and the BMW that started this thread is not a hot car.It was a X5M. They just released that model and BMW has never had a M Brand for SUVs before. They always said they would never make M branded SUVs.
I have no idea if it is a hot car or not but it is completely brand new and if someone has been swimming in the BMW kool-aid then I can see then paying up for one. I doubt they are any incentives on them.
Me personally I don't car for the X5. I think they ride too rough and are way overpriced.
Monday I will tell it though I promise.
aren't you in/near pittsburgh?
that's a generous offer.
OK, and I have another question you made me think of. How many times do you tell a prospective customer that a car is full MSRP. In other words, if I came in to your store, and said, I've been looking at a new XYZ, how much do those cars cost? What price do you tell me, retail less 5%, full retail, best possible price I am going to get without haggling?
I have a feeling no one really pays full MSRP except on a real hot car in short supply. Everyone knows better.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am not sure about "everyone", I am sure that there are a few Hank Hills out there.
10 free brownie points for whoever gets that reference
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you're selling a house, and someone is willing to pay your full asking price, would you voluntarily drop the price by $10k-$20k ?
What about if you have a used TV for sale on craigslist and are asking $25, and someone is willing to pay that, no reason to give up money you don't have to.
What about if your boss is giving you a raise, would you tell him/her, "no that's too much, give me only $XX"
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
You are selling your own used car. You have done your homework and you figure it ought to be worth around 7000.00 although you have seen similar cars advertised for quite a but more.
Knowing how people like to haggle, you price it at 8500.00 knowing you'll take 6500-7500 if you have to.
First day the ad runs someone comes to see it. The walk around it once and say.." It looks good, I'll take it" They then whip out 8500.00.
Would you stutter and stammer and say..." Uh, don't you want to make an offer?"
So you shake hands and take the cash.
Did the shopper pay too much?
Did you cheat him in any way?
Not every product needs to be discounted in order to sell. There is nothing wrong with selling any product for it's full asking price.
That sounds like a get you into payments you can afford pitch.
It kinda went around my question......I think you are saying you would not give a low price.
See why I think you should in my next reply to boomer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Personally, I don't think that is the best method, and I will explain why.
Very few people expect to pay full retail price, and almost no one will.
So, if you ask full retail, I think, unfortunately, you have lost me right there....unless I get a sense you are just joking and will come down pretty fast.
Once I was looking for a Mustang many years ago. I haggled down to a price, but I didn't trust the salesman and I didn't like his attitude.
I went to another dealer and he was a straight shooter, gave me exactly the same price right up front with no hassle. I trusted him and liked him....and bought from him, after he reduced it just a bit more.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
See my story above. I don't like game playing. I'll put up with asking for full retail until I start LOLing on the dealer showroom floor.
Salesman better get real very fast....I don't have time for that, or to be insulted by someone who thinks I am going to pay full retail price.
I guaranty, I will be walking out the door unless things progress downward very quickly, and my trust will evaporate very quickly. I am very polite in these situations, I just politely take the card and move on to another dealer.
If you start out with a realistic price, probably at least 10% below MSRP as a starting point, you will win most of my trust, and I will be willing to stay and talk.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When you are asked for a price (not a quote but a price) on a quantity of books do you give your drop dead low figure or the list price to be negotiated with a RFQ?
aren't you in/near pittsburgh?
that's a generous offer.
First off I was wrong, Son # 2 has a 2000 Explorer not a 2002. However, since you were slow to take up the offer for help with your brakes, he won’t be able to take you this weekend. Something just popped up.
He and his wife drop off their two kids so they can go out for dinner then to a movie. They return to pick up their brats and he says, “what are you doing tomorrow”? Right off, I know I’m about to be doing something tomorrow. He has just over 128K on the Explorer and on the way to our house, after their night out, his alternator light comes on.
Sorry,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If you were pricing your car for sale and someone called on your ad and offered that price would you take it or go down some?
And Isell -
Your point is a good one. My wife and I sell things half a dozen time a year on Craigs list - old TVs, Microwave, etc..no mater what we think it is worth $20 or $500 we work in the haggle factor...and you know what, most people don't haggle!
I never understood the whole point view that a price or offer is "insulting" etc...if an offer does not work for you don't accept it? right?
and then:
I am very polite in these situations
Doesn't sound like it....
The first price should be the one on the car, either a special tag price or the MSRP. Once it's determined the car is exactly what you want, you sit down and negotiate. Nothing at all insulting about that, to either the buyer or seller.
People around here know they can get a better deal than MSRP. So make the offer or begin negotiations or ask about discounts. But get offended??? :confuse:
I went to another dealer and he was a straight shooter, gave me exactly the same price right up front with no hassle. I trusted him and liked him....and bought from him, after he reduced it just a bit more.
I don't get it. If you got a bad vibe from the salesman, why spend time haggling? Why not just move on? Your time has a price too. :sick: :confuse:
I buy books from suppliers all the time. I just came back from a trade show in Chicago and I bought over 200,000 books in 3 days.
Dealers have the list price marked on the book. That is the price bookstores pay.
Since i buy in quantity - we caqn either start at that point and haggle all day, or suppliers can see thsat I know the list price, and I am not going to pay list price if a book store is going to order 5 copies, and I am going to order 500 copies, so I would be insulted being asked to pay list price. I don't have the time to play games and there are other suppliers who give me great prices right from the start, sometimes close to half the list price.
Ihate haggling. That's why I don't like to go to Bahamas or something. I know it is the way they do business. In China street vendors are insulted if youdon't haggle. Dealers off knock off Rolex's for $10 but if you work on them you can get them down to $3...but you have to walk away and act like you don't care. I would rather pay $5, the $2 won't change my life much but it might feed a family of 4 over there.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You are selling your own used car. You have done your homework and you figure it ought to be worth around 7000.00 although you have seen similar cars advertised for quite a but more.
Knowing how people like to haggle, you price it at 8500.00 knowing you'll take 6500-7500 if you have to.
First day the ad runs someone comes to see it. The walk around it once and say.." It looks good, I'll take it" They then whip out 8500.00.
Would you stutter and stammer and say..." Uh, don't you want to make an offer?"
I doubt i would price it at $8500 if I would be satisfied getting $7000. I would probably price it at $7800 because I don't want to spend months trying to sell it. If someone said, they will buy it for $7800 yes, I would sell it for that. I guess in my mind I would be thinking well, if someone is so foolish they want to pay full price, why should I argue. On the other hand, he might love the car, not want to lose it, and figure what's $800 extra for a great car I will be driving for 5 years.
But, I guess, you are really saying, no harm in asking, just in case someone will come in and pay full retail. I say, for the few people who will actually do that, I think it would be better to start closer to the real price......right from the start you will win a prospective buyer over with your honesty, and you are willing to show you are on his side.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There's a difference between pointing out the MSRP, and then getting real, and negotiations should start pretty quickly from there AND a salesman telling me the MSRP is the price and seeing how I react. I think I am being insulted. As I said, I went to the 2nd Mustang salesman and he gave me the exact same price as the 1st, with no haggling. Who, am I going to trust and want to work with?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think offended is too strong...I do feel my intelligence is being insulted. I'll buy from the guy who is straightforward and comes up with a real price quickly and easily. I want a car, I know about how much they can come down, I know what I am willing to pay, I don't have the time or energy to waste haggling. I have been to the 2 types of dealerships, and I will take the straight shooter deal any time.
I told this story before. Wanted a new 1995 Jeep Cherokee. Took a test drive. Salesman gave me a price of $315 a month for a lease. I called back next day and said for $300 even I will buy it.
He said no, that was his best price.
I called the Auto Club and they sent me to their best price dealer. You don't tell him what the 1st price was. He came up with $285 a month and the buy back was $1800 less. No fuss, no muss. On 30 months that makes a big difference.
I went back to buy a newer Jeep 30 months later. They allowed me to continue the lease for 2 years at $200 a month...again easy and no hassle.
When that lease was up I took him an ad from the newspaper...it was a competing dealer. The ad had a great price which I thought was a come-on ad, and I asked if he could match it. He said, I can do better than that, and he was about $300 lower than the lost leader ad.
I always knew I could walk into that delership, talk to my salesman, and have every confidence I would get a fair price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It was only my 2nd new car I had ev er bought. I fought and clubbed and got the price down to what I hoped to pay, but by then the trust had gone. I left and said I would think it over. I went to the 2nd dealer and he let me take the car for a long test drive, and when we got back he quoted the price that the other dealer gave me after squabbling for an hour. I bought the car from him, I liked the fact he was low key, gave a good price up front, what more could I ask for?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm probably a bit different. I don't walk into a dealership (unless it's to help someone else) unless I'm certain the vehicle is on my short list, and that there's a reasonable expectation that I'll like it. That comes from doing a little bit of homework on my own end....reading trade rag reviews, going to car shows, doing off hour walk arounds, etc.
Still, I would be happy without all the histrionics that goes with making an offer. Yes or no proposition when I make my offer. I announce I'm buying if they accept it. If not, I'll move on, no hard feelings.
Invariably, even though I make it clear that my offer is firm, the bump ensues....and the grind is invited, by the dealership.
There are a couple of dealerships I know of around me that I've done business with, who understand I'm a buyer, and how I come up with my offer. Those are quick and easy deals. I leave with a car and a deal I'm happy with. Takes maybe 5-10 minutes.
Then, there are others, no matter how many times you tell them your offer is firm, they still want to grind me....for $500, $250, $100, even $50 more. If they do that, I'm pretty certain I'm not going to be very happy (and won't buy from them.....let alone give a good CSI).
As far as buying or selling used, if the buyer (or me, as a seller) says the price is firm, I take their word for it. I'm not going to try to negotiate. Either I like the vehicle and the price is fair, or it isn't. If I'm the seller, and the buyer starts to nit pic my wares, I'll tell them "this car isn't for you".
Bottom line, there's no sense in trying to strike a deal on any vehicle if you don't like it. Maybe I'd never be successful as a car sales professional since I would probably cut loose too many potential customers for downgrading my product in the hopes that it will get a lower price. You don't like it? Well, we can both move on.
I'll still stick to my "firm offer" approach. Accept it, or decline it, no hard feelings. Just don't try to lure me into the "bump and grind" routine. I don't respond well to that.
IMHO these things happen so few times...where someone will pay more than you're asking, I don't think it is worth risking winning a new customer just to play the game.
I know you take sales courses and your managers will go crazy if you don't start at MSRP. But, I think that is a mistake. You have lost points with me because I feel I am being insulted. If you say, MSRP is $28,000, but if you buy today we can do it for $25,500...you will have my interest. We can work from there, and you are telling me I think you are bright enough to know I don't try to get you to sign a piece of paper that has MSRP on it.
Some cars you do have to pay MSRP, like my current car. The dealer is allotted two a month and they are sold out for 3 months in advance. Smart marketing. I can't argue with that. Even then, I did get a bit more for my trade in then I expected, so I worked from that angle. I also had a time restraint, incorporating the company so had to buy the car and get the tax break before the incorporation took place.
Funny thing about value though, I think I would have paid $10k more for the car if that was the price, so I think it was a great value anyway, MSRP or not.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am with you on this one GG. Let's open up our own dealership.
"Driver and GG's Grindless Car Delaership"....... where we value your
time and stress levels. Makes buying a car, a hassle free experience!
They'll be breaking down the doors to get in.....
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
I will agree with you that seriously talking price should only be done after the car with options is chosen.
However "affordable" and "reasonable" are two different realities. Case in point my brother in law recently bought a Nissan Versa. My wife likes it as do I and it might be the car we replace our second car with. Now MSRP is affordable but I wouldn't pay it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D