Stories from the Sales Frontlines

dtezla

I absolutely loved that episode!

As for full boat... I've said it before & I'll say it again. When I was selling Subaru, I sold lots of cars at MSRP & the customers knew they were paying MSRP. I'd say somewhere between 40% - 50% of my business was MSRP. These were not STI models or hot cars either... just run of the mill Outbacks and Foresters. I was honest with every customer & started every negotiation at MSRP. The product was worth every penny of MSRP & for those that thought it wasn't, my dealership provided a level of service that was second to none.

The dealership where I worked was a really small one in a rural area with a good team of people both working there and buying there. If the customers wanted a better price, we certainly would negotiate in a no non-sense way. We would usually bring out the invoice & show it to them & ask what they thought was fair (Usually "split the difference").

I miss my Subaru customers. If I ever go back into the car business - that dealership is the first place I'd go.

isellhondas

Don't be surprised if you went back and found out things have become tougher.

The last couple of years have really changed things.

fezo

Speaking of Subarus, I've always liked the looks and feel of them. Lately the new Leagcies and Outbacks have been popping up on the road. They look REALLY nice! I still have at least another year on the ancient Accord (formerly the nice, new Accord) so nothing in the immediate offing but it has my attention.

br - don't worry. That's the wife's car. In another whatever I'll still be looking for another convertible...

british_rover

Ahh speaking of Verts you just reminded me.

Getting in a 2004 9-3 Aero vert in silver with a dark blue top.

Very nice car 30,000 some miles. We sold it new.

dtezla

I too was shocked by the amount of disregard people had for the cars at Autoshows. I couldn't believe the first autoshow I worked at. I was selling Volvo & the original C70 Convertible had just came out (1999 I think). There were two kids literally jumping on the leather seats wearing cleats! I asked the mother to please remove the children from the car & she got mad at me! They did hundreds of dollars worth of damage to leather & it needed to get new seats put in the back. I learned very quickly to never sell a car that was at any sort of show... ever.

sterlingdog

Driver, I really do owe you a steak dinner. You have cleared up a number of things that had me wondering regarding the movie. Those two links were VERY helpful. I had always wondered why I was seeing the white hood of the '57 Ford while she was still driving the black '56 Ford. The Goofs link explained that one for me.

I must say that when you are good, you are very, very good. Thanks so much.

Richard

sterlingdog

Don't forget to add the gold jewelry. :P

Richard

isellhondas

We managed to get an S-2000 TRASHED one year and, unfortunatly it went to our store. Dents all over it. The driver's seat looked like an elephant had sat in it and the interior was totally scuffed up.

Some people simply don't care but I guess this is how they live.

fezo

You pay in steak dinners? I'll have to find you some needed information.

br - I KNEW you'd have one coming! I'll check out your site when it's up. I'm probably not doing it as soon as I'd like because the Celica, while cramped, is your basic free car - that is paid for and reasonably reliable. I'd sure like a 9-3 though...

fezo

I am constantly amazed at what some folks will do. Every time I think I've beyond the ability to shock a story like the cleats in the Volvo shows up.

lrguy44

The worst I had was when a woman of significant girth traded a old Caravan in for a new one. Her perfume was Au Natural Odor. She barely fit in the caravan with the seat back and the tilt wheel all the way up. This had to be back in the early 90s. She had a second vehicle which was an old Dodge Coronet. She said it was stored in her garage and could we come and get it. When I opened her garage door, I noticed the space was carpeted with about 2 feet of leaves. God only knows what creatures lived there. This car was not quite as odiferous as the old caravan trade was. We had it about 6 months and finally wholesaled it. Never could get the smell to anything one could tolerate without a mask.

sterlingdog

I'm glad that your car purchase went so well. You forgot to tell us one thing. Did you ask for $28k or just take the $28,500 offer?

Richard

dtezla

You could be right, but I only left the store about a year and half ago.

Kirstie_H

Subaru is just different, period. I've never purchased one, but I've always thought it'd be a pleasant experience. We've had a chance to talk with some Subaru-associated people in the course of doing special chats here, and it's been a positive experience. Who knows? It might be just as you remember it. Sometimes it's the company's management & their philosophy that makes all the difference for the workers & customers.

houdini1

I felt that $28,500. was a fair offer so I didn't push any further for a better deal. Edmund's appraisal calculator says the dealer price should be $32,000., so it has nothing to do with the fact that I am a big WUS !!!

driver100

I must say that when you are good, you are very, very good.

And, that infers that when I am bad, I am really bad.

But, let me know when you are barbequing those steaks, we'll be there. We'll bring our trailer home and hook up to your electricity and plumbing. Just joking, but once we had a guy at a place where I worked and he would visit people unannounced and hook up his mobile trailer to their house, and park in their driveway.

houdini1

I think I saw that movie...with Randy Quaid also emptying his septic tank in the front yard !!

jmonroe

I think I saw that movie...

I DID see that movie and I continue to see it after Christmas dinner at my brothers house EVERY Christmas (family ritual).

That movie is the definition of a CLASSIC.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Some people simply don't care but I guess this is how they live.

I can only imagine what you guys see when people trade in their cars. When I see cars with trash in them of all types when walking through parking lots and body parts hanging on for dear life by the last remaining clip (sometimes duct tape), I just have to think of you guys.

I was accused of being a meanie for not allowing my sons to eat/drink ANYTHING in my cars. I don’t think they lost any weight because of it either. Since I was the one who cleaned the cars I got to call the shots about that.

When 2 and 3 year old cars look like they’re 15 years old, I’d say this is a time when you CAN judge a book by its cover. :sick:

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

A little while ago my wife pulled me away from my important work of scanning used car listings to watch Dr. Phil. She saw the "are you crazy?" look on my face and said: "You'll like this, it's about car buying". I almost knocked her down trying to get to the TV.

It seems Dr. Phil was doing a show on negotiating. In this segment he was talking about how women are afraid to negotiate the price of a car. He interviewed a number of women who said they were uncomfortable asking for a lower price because they didn't want to hurt the salesman's feelings or that they thought MSRP was the price they were supose to pay.

Dr. Phil then took a woman to the famous Tobin Dodge (King of Cars). Her name was Kirstie (do I smell an Edmunds plant?) . First they let a man go in and negotiate. He did the typical things : he did his research so he knew what the price should be, he got them to install a bunch of free options and at the end he got some free oil changes.

Then they sent Kirstie in and she basicly took whatever Chop said she should. He had to tell her about the rebates and that the car and been advertised for $2K less than she agreed to. She was such a good sport about it all that Chop GAVE her the car for free in the end.

I found the show was kind of insulting to women. Dr. Phil even got one woman to say: "I think we women should just hire a man to do all the car buying" (are you listening GG?). Certainly the women I've talked to on Edmunds are not this clueless.

Do you salespeople run into this kind of customer often? I bet there are a lot of men who don't do their homework either.

sterlingdog

"And, that infers that when I am bad, I am really bad."

We realize that you can't be perfect all of the time. :P :shades:

Richard

driver100

The employee was for real. He got fired when they discovered he would photocopy his monthly telephone bill, and he would submit the same bill 2 weeks later.

Curious which movie that could be though...do you or jm know the title, it sounds like fun.
Here is a list of Randy Quaid movies, but I don't think it could be one of these, unless it is Christmas Vacation.
Randy Quaid Movies

graphicguy

Dunno about women being afraid to negotiate farmer. I think males take a lot more interest in cars than our female counter parts (with all due respect to our very own Kirstie, perhaps Jean Jennings or Danica Patrick). When I was married, my former spouse spent more time comparison shopping a $250 handbag than she did a $25,000 car. Just different interests, I suppose.

I'd probably go postal if I were forced to buy a car at Tobin. I wonder how his biz is holding up? Vegas tourism is WAY DOWN. Add to that, Chrysler/Dodge's woes...on top of that, the general malaise with most of the auto industry.

This was several years ago, but I took a passing interest in buying a Subie WRX when they first hit these shores several years ago. There were only two Subaru dealers in town, at the time. Both wanted MSRP for those cars. Nice cars. Neither dealer would budge. By the time they were willing to budge, one of them contacted me and asked if I was still interested in a WRX at a discount. Problem there, it was 18 months after I had visited them.

sterlingdog

$32K? You got a wonderful deal. What a lucky son to have a dad like you. :shades:

Richard

driver100

We realize that you can't be perfect all of the time.

Why not, I always tell my wife that I am! :shades:

sterlingdog

18 months later?! Talk about being a little slow on the follow up calls! :surprise:

Richard

driver100

I felt that $28,500. was a fair offer so I didn't push any further for a better deal.

I am proud of you too. You got the car for an excellent price, everyone came out ahead, the dealer will survive another day, no clobbered baby seals. It's a win (you), win (your son), win (dealer), how often does that happen?

sterlingdog

I'm gad that you have a person who loves you. :P

Richard

lrguy44

Every deal is a win/win deal. If I do not consider it a win for the dealership, I will not do the deal. If the customer doesn"t think it is a win for him, he won"t do the deal. That is the whole definition of a successful negotiation.

lvranger

Coming up on the one year anniversary of this tale so I thought I would share it with you all.

First a little back story. I had sold my previous bike in April 07 to pay off some high interest loans and generally get my sh*t together. So here it was a year and a half later in Nov 08 and i'm basically dead on the inside from lack of riding. :sick: The few times I bummed a buddies bike were not enough to sate the beast within. I cut my sport bike teeth on a 03 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R and coveted the heavily upgraded 05-06 ZX-6R (636 for short). Especially because they were only made for four years and 06 was the last year made.

On my way home from work I pass a Yamaha dealer every day. They usually have five or six used bikes sitting outside and i'll glance over to check their wares. This particular day I see a sleek black face peeking out behind a Honda CBR. Now I can spot a Ninja at 500 yards but I couldn't tell exactly what it was going by at 45mph hidden behind a row of bikes. So I continue home and look up their number. A salesman picks up, lets call him Glen because that was his name. :P I ask Glen if he had a 636 on his lot and if so how many miles and what did she run? I get put on hold for a minute and when he comes back he says "Sure do, 15,000, $8,999". The silence on my end was so deep that I thought I was going to fall into it. After my neurons started firing again I said "Hey there Glen, when did they start charging brand new prices for two year old used bikes?". He stammers for a second and says "oh I read the wrong line $7,999". Wow, the savings. I prefer face to face anyways so I tell him i'll stop in at lunch tomorrow.

The next day I stop by and start inspecting the bike without going inside. Not a minute goes by and Glen is crashing through the door and offering a vigorous handshake. Hmmm, desperation or just good salesmanship? This dealer is a ghost town and seems to have been that way recently. He immediately starts selling me on the bike which doesn't bother me because I love talking about bikes, especially 636's. He doesn't say anything that I don't already know however and eventually shuts up as i'm poring over every detail. The bike is in good shape, never been down, no oil leaks. I've always thought because of the abuse that sport bikes accrue and their high revving nature that their mileage should be looked at as half dog years. So this thing has approx 50000 comparative car miles, not bad. The idle is a little fluffy because of an aftermarket exhaust and needs to be adjusted. Luckily the exhaust is relatively quiet (I can't stand obnoxious exhausts) however it was mounted slightly crooked which immediately sets off my OCD.

Its good enough to buy so I go inside to talk price. He says "You're in luck, I talked to my SM and we can give you another twelve hundred off what we talked about on the phone!" I'm thinking "thats good because this thing is worth $6,000-$6,500 tops". He show me a break down that goes like this:

Bike - $6799
TTL - $499
Doc - $399
Prep - $299
Total - $7996

Will I keep my cool? Will the salesman survive? Will my bike lust overcome reason?

In the immortal words of a great man: To Be Continued...

jmonroe

...unless it is Christmas Vacation.

It IS Christmas Vacation (sometimes known as Griswalds Christmas) because it is about Chevy Chase's family (the Griswalds).

Buy the DVD, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

jmonroe

explorerx4

of course some posters on here are going to say you paid how much and got only 2 wheels?, assuming there was a sale.

explorerx4

sit down before you read this craigslist ad.
maybe a clue in the sellers name?

isellhondas

We never let our son eat or drink anything in our cars either unless MAYBE we were on a long trip and he had clean things to eat and his lap was covered up.

Now, if cars don't have a dozen cupholders, people won't buy them. I NEVER use my cupholders except to hold my sunglasses or something else. I'll drink my coffee before I leave hom and maybe have another one when I get to work.

And, when I was a child I can't ever remember anyone eating or drinking anything in cars. We ate at home or we pulled over.

Cars get traded in that look like rolling restaurants! The seats and carpets are badly stained and the cars stink inside. The detailers must have strong stomachs to get into these cars and clean the filth of other people.

I just don't understand, that's all...

fezo

I hate to say it but we'll have food and/or drink in the car. In theory I don't like the idea and every year it seems they put more cupholders in these things. My Celica actually only has 2. Of course it has a good old roll over type odometer as well...

I will grant you that by the time I sell a car its main value is that it still runs. Out of four cars only one is under 100K on the clock. Heck only one is under 120K.

snakeweasel

Ah Rodney Dangerfield said it would be a perfect second car.

jipster

I found the show was kind of insulting to women. Dr. Phil even got one woman to say: "I think we women should just hire a man to do all the car buying" (are you listening GG?). Certainly the women I've talked to on Edmunds are not this clueless.

Shame on Dr. Phil. Sounds like the typical B.S you find on the so called reality shows. Get somebody to act like an idiot on t.v equates to higher ratings. :sick:

driver100

It IS Christmas Vacation (sometimes known as Griswalds Christmas) because it is about Chevy Chase's family (the Griswalds).

I thought it was Christmas Vacation and I love that movie...especially stringing up the lights on the roof. All the Vacation movies are really great, they just had European Vacation on the other night, and the trip to Wally World was another one, .......not too many new movies as good as those.

dtezla

I buy a new bike every 5 years. Currently I own a Ninja 650R - I like the more comfortable seating position over the ZX. I think my next bike is going to be a dual sport since I keep ending up on really bad roads & like the idea of seeing where certain trails lead. I'm thinking the Versys (But I don't like this years redesigned front) or the V-Strom.

The bad news is that my 5 year cycle is only 2.5 years in... so I got a long time to keep looking.

jmonroe

I love that movie...especially stringing up the lights on the roof.

Like I said it’s a family ritual for us. The whole family watches Christmas Vacation after Christmas dinner every year at my brother’s place.

Now even my oldest grandson watches and says, “is this where he puts up the Christmas lights…is this where he gets stuck in the attic…is this where the cat gets electrocuted…is this where…” and on and on. His grandmother says, “it’s pretty bad when even a 7 year old knows what’s coming next. You guys have corrupted that poor kid”. I don’t see her stapled to the chair, she’s free to leave whenever she wants but in reality even she likes this movie.

jmonroe

tjc78

is this where the cat gets electrocuted

"That cat had nine lives... he just spent 'em all!"

oldfarmer50

'...look like rolling restaurants..."

I don't understand the mind-set of some people. Wouldn't you think they would clean up their car a little before offering it for trade? I mean, do they expect the best price for a car that looks like junk? You'd have to assume that the mechanical care was as bad as the cleaning, right?

Back in the 80s I traded my well-used Dodge Omni for a newer car. The trade was an afterthought but since the car was worth only a couple hundred at best, I used it to break a negotiation impasse I threw my clunker in as part of the deal.

While the car was not dirty when the salesman test-drove it, I felt that it should look it's best when I turned it in. In the day I had to wait for the new car to be prepped I took my Omni and gave it a good detail. It looked very nice when I left it at the dealer.

I'd be ashamed to give someone a french-fry mobile.

tjc78

I'd be ashamed to give someone a french-fry mobile.

Yeah, I mean with the price you pay for these things you think people would keep them clean. I am a fanatic, but really all you have to do is keep the trash out and shake out the floor mats to keep it respectable. An automatic wash for $7.00 once a month wouldn't kill anyone.

I also make sure my vehicle is spotless whenever bringing it in for service. I figure if they see it clean, they will be more apt to be considerate when servicing it.

lvranger

The second bike I owned was a V-Strom 650. I loved the comfort and it was great for touring. I got really really bored with the power though. That V twin is a sweet piece, as is your parallel twin, but they lack the "hit" of high end four cylinders. I knew I would miss the torque though, which is why I went with the 636. That being said, I really miss the do everything vibe of the V-Strom and I lust for a BMW F800GS. Don't have $14K however. :sick:

dtezla

I'm not one that cares for power at all. I actually ride my Ninja 250r commuter as much as the 650r. I ride with a group of tourers though & the 250 is a bit strained at 80 mph on the highway.

doanej

Uh uh, MSRP is Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price which means nothing if no one really sells at that price.

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i like how you put "suggested" in all caps yet forget the word RETAIL in in MSRP.

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In fact, the government would probably go after all the car dealers if they all banned together and only charged MSRP

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The gov couldn't do anything about it. Not everything has to be on sale. You say you like dealers listing everything $400 over cost, fine go shop their where the sales people have ZERO car knowedge and could careless about you. You want some burger flipper taking your car order, fine by me.

boomchek

Just shows that mentality of treating customers like marks rather than true assets is alive and well

Although I see your point Dino, but I must add that the reason you feel all this is because of the disclosure in pricing with auto sales. Everything is out in the open.

Now how many industries are there that treat everyone like a "mark" but we don't see it just because there is no such price disclosure, or all the fees are hidden, and we just accept it for what it is and pay it.

doanej

dino,
toyoguard is installed at the port, all you have to do if every dealer has it on their vehicles is buy one before it gets to port and the dealer should have no problem leaving that stuff off for you. If one dealer won't, i guarantee you can find a dealer that will, or come see me in Alabama, I'll show you plenty that dont.

fezo

I don't know. The amount of garbage money they just wanted me to pay automatically the last couple of dealer purchases have put me on the sidelines. I won't accept it and if the only way around is to not buy new that's what I'll do. If they want to throw junk money on used cars I'll go to private sales.

Give me a nice, honest up front sales person and don't keep tacking on fees and we can do business just fine. I don't grind out the last dollar by any means but i expect a price when I ask for a price not a price plus whatever fees get thrown on.

driver100

The gov couldn't do anything about it. Not everything has to be on sale.

I think that if all dealers from one make band together, and said they would only sell all cars at MSRP, there would be a trade or consumer hearing. It could be colusion......"suggested" is used as only a suggestion.....let the bargaining begin. The manufacturer can't force all dealers to sell at MSRP.

But, how strong is MSRP...well, it might mean somethin if you were buying a Boxer and ther'e not too many around, on an Impala, the car will sell for what the market will accept, probably 20% off list.