Stories from the Sales Frontlines

houdini1

oldfarmer, I think it was the way we were raised because I am the same way. When we sold our house about 4 years ago I was making a run thru to make sure everything was as it should be for the new owners. I noticed the light was burned out in the master bedroom closet so I put in a new light...still didn't work...so I put in a new switch and that did the trick.

The trouble with this is that I expect the "other guy" to behave in the same manner and this does not always work out.

lrguy44

Even with rebates how does a 9% profit car sell for 20% off list? I think you think new cars have a much bigger markup from invoice than they do.
I did a Edmunds TMV on a 2010 Impala LT - added the leather seat package and got a MSRP of 27300, Invoice of $26003 and a TMV of $26686. Take off the $2000 rebate and you have a selling price of $24686 - a far cry from a 20% off that would be $21840.

lrguy44

Saturn and Scion among others have sold at MSRP without government intervention.

explorerx4

several posters have mentioned checking Fiztmall. I have done it many times too and 'in demand' vehicles can have msrp listed as the sales price.

british_rover

Using a percent discount off of MSRP for cars is always a mistake.

houdini1

On a new car, when you hit 10 or 15 thousand miles they recommend scheduled maintenance that can run you anywhere from $500. to $1,000. or more. This usually consists of an oil change, plus they "check or inspect" several items... fluid levels, tires, air filters, battery, drive belts, maybe a tire rotation, blah, blah, blah. I presume that if they do find a problem, they charge you more for actually fixing it.

Then they want to do it all over again after another 10,000 miles !

How do you guys handle these things?

lvranger

I run with a group of tourers as well. They are moderate on interstates but extremely fast on unpatroled back roads. Sometimes I have to push it a bit to keep up with their Concourses and K bikes. If I feel like an easier time i'll hang back with the lead wings.

jmonroe

I just don't understand, that's all...

This is very coincidental.

‘isell’…I’ll bet you won’t understand this either or even believe it. I saw some of this myself and I don’t believe it.

Just watched the local news and they had a follow up segment to a Toyota that ran over a cliff yesterday. Fortunately no one was seriously injured. They mentioned a recall of this Camry because of floor mats that can cause the throttle to stick. They showed the driver’s side floor had a piece of heavy carpeting on top of the factory mat. If that wasn’t bad enough, you could see at least a handful of women’s paraphernalia on the floor, candy bars/wrappers and I couldn’t even determine what the rest of the stuff on that floor was but I could see a sneaker that was partially under the brake pedal.

The TV girl said to the tow yard guy, “that’s a lot of stuff there isn’t it”? He said, “someone came by this morning and took away 3 or 4 garbage bags of stuff from the car”. :surprise:

I’ll bet you never saw all that while taking in a trade, have you?

Off topic: Another segment of the news was about a bare footed guy in his 50’s caught on the security camera of a convenience store. He broke in to this store early in the morning to steal $400 worth of PA lottery tickets, which can be traced if he tries to cash a winning ticket. They said he broke a glass door to get in and because he was bare footed he left DNA evidence at the scene. I know tomorrow is Friday the 13th but this car incident and this type of break in has to be related to the position of the moon. :surprise:

jmonroe

lrguy44

One topic we have not discussed is the effect of a full moon on the car business. I never believed in moon cycles before, but the full phase does bring the wierdos and other assorted nuts into the dealership.

isellhondas

Yes, after spending my entire working career in retail I can attest to the fact that a full moon does, indeed, bring in some strange people!

boomchek

I also agree with that. Full moon does bring out people that just act weirdly.

driver100

I think you think new cars have a much bigger markup from invoice than they do.

You could be right with many cars. The Impala looks like it is can be bought for about 10% below MSRP. LT shown
MSRP
$23,890 - $29,630
Invoice
$22,934 - $28,445

But then check out the discount on a Dodge Caravan!

2010 DODGE GR CARAVAN CANADIAN VALUE PKG $78 WKLY TAX INCLUDED
Price: $29,995 Now $16,999
Payment: $123*
Body Style: Minivan
Fuel Type: Flexible Fuel
Transmission: 4 Speed Sport Automatic O/D
Drive Train: Front Wheel Drive
Exterior: N/A
Interior: Grey, Cloth
Stock #: New 2010 Grand
VIN:

It is over 30% off. It does vary by car, but generally, the least desireable, and the slower sellers will have bigger discounts.

My guess is some discounts are not as great as they were because car companies want to minimize the discounting.....5% is going to become the new normal. I always tried for 10% with American cars and got it quite easily....but, it looks like the rules might have changed. That's not much give on an ancient design like the Impala.

mikefm58

Then they want to do it all over again after another 10,000 miles !

How do you guys handle these things?

I never ever follow the dealer's recommended schedule, only what's listed in my owner's manual, and do most of the maintenance myself. Check the brake pads regularly? Nope. When I hear the brake pad wear indicator, I take it to the local Goodyear shop and have them change the pads, turn the rotors, and replace the brake fluid. I do the fluids and filters myself as well as rotate the tires. I can't see paying the dealer $50 for an oil & filter change and tire rotation when I can do that in an hour in my own driveway at my own convenience.

explorerx4

at the next service @20k my fusion awd will have cost about $160 in maintenance.
4 oil change/tire rotations, plus voluntary new windshield wipers and air filter.
my 02 explorer has been much more spendy, though.

isellhondas

Yeah, but what a PITA. Getting everything ready, cleaning up afterwards, dropping the old filter and making a mess. Then you have to get rid of the old oil etc.

I used to do this. Not anymore.

roadburner

The bad news is that my 5 year cycle is only 2.5 years in... so I got a long time to keep looking.

I've had my 1996 Speed Triple for a little over four years. I still love it, even if the ergos are a bit extreme for my 52 year old bones. With a 3-into-1 Sebring pipe and re-jetted Mikunis it's quick enough to keep up with most anything but the fastest super sports- which is more than enough for me. Top speed is a bit slow -130 mph- but I can live with it.

lrguy44

sounds like a program car with miles to me - do you have a link to this deal?

jipster

I can't see paying the dealer $50 for an oil & filter change and tire rotation

More and more I see dealerships packaging in the oil change and tire rotation together... obviously more profitable. I don't need tire rotations though as they came "free" with the set of Yokohama T4 tires I bought. Most of the time though I can get oil changes anywhere from $14-$24. At that price I let the dealership change the hot oil and filter...some with their teeth oldfarmer says. :surprise:

murphydog

Driver -

Check out Apple products - the price is virtually the same everywhere (OK Walmart got $2.00 off one item.)

Or check out Weber BBQs - other that end of summer clearance they are always the same price everwhere.

Or Bose, Again the price is the same everywere and the virtually never go on sale...

And I think for awhile Saturns sold for MSRP?

I don't think Uncle Same is looking into any of them right?

tidester

I can attest to the fact that a full moon does, indeed, bring in some strange people!

I think we're dealing with selective memory here.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

driver100

Here's the link, and boomer said he has lots of them at this price;

Dodge Caravan

driver100

And I think for awhile Saturns sold for MSRP?
I don't think Uncle Same is looking into any of them right?

I think the manufacturer can't force all it's customers/retailers to make their customers pay full MSRP. So far that hasn't happenned, but if all car dealers of a certain brand charged exactly the same price, then I think the government should look into it, that would be suspicious I think.

But once again MSRP doesn't always mean much. We buy remainder books for our business. Have you ever seen a coloring book and it has in large print on the back $4.99, but they sell it at the dollar store for $1? Those books probably cost 60 cents and were made for that market and know one in their right mind would pay $4.99 for it. So the question is, what is MSRP? Sometimes, it is just a phony price to start from, sometimes it is inflated so the final price can be made higher, sometimes it is a realistic price.

I think of MSRP as being a guide, but it doesn't really mean a whole lot.

One more note about remainder books. The best ones were produced by a real legitimate publisher, such as Random House, or Simon and Schuster, then if you get a book that was priced at $24.99 for $4.99, then you have a real bargain.

But, there are companies that produce books (usually reprints), they put a phony price on it, and the retailer sells them for a fraction of the cost. In remainder books, the best ones were printed by "real" publishing companies. It applies to most other products though...no-name or rip off products, that claim they are as good as the big names for less money.....but they seldom are as good.

mikefm58

At that price I let the dealership change the hot oil and filter

Here's my last experience with my Toyota dealer, keep in mind I had four Toyotas in my household at the time. I went on a weekend morning for oil & filter change and tire rotation, kind of busy and was told an hour to an hour and a half. No problem, they have Wi-Fi, so I figured I'd catch up on Edmunds forums.

Two hours go by so I go looking for my service advisor, find her after about 15 minutes, she says she'll go check, 15 more minutes and she says she can't find the vehicle, notifies her boss. 15 more minutes and he drives it around from back, says the tech left early and left all the paper work in my vehicle. Would you want a guy like this working on your vehicle at any price?

This was not the first time I was told an hour or so and it ended up being much longer. In the several years I took my Toyotas there, there was only one SA I trusted, and he was a 19 yr old kid.

Oh, this place also has a policy that if you drop the vehicle off and pick it up later after all the work has been OKed and done that you still have to go find your SA so he can then take your paper work to the cashier. No going directly to the cashier to pay and then pick up your vehicle. I've had cases where my SA was no where to be found, leaving my paper work in his desk, and I have to interrupt another SA just to get my paper work and take it to the cashier. Grrrrrr.

So it's not so much the cost as it is the inconvenience.

m6vx

Dodge Caravan ad:

84 month lease / bi-weekly payments --- LOL

What does "CANADIAN VALUE PKG $78 WKLY TAX INCLUDED" mean?

Something is still missing......

lrguy44

From the ad "All prices are plus freight, admin fee, PDI, licensing, registration, and all applicable taxes. Interest rates presented are O. A.C. All finance payments are based on $0 down and include taxes, freight and PDI. Licensing and registration extra. Prices valid on date of publication only. Call Scarsview for complete details. Vehicles may not be exactly as illustrated. Some units may not be in stock but will be delivered by end of month. *Must provide proof of competitors price in order to match or beat. See dealer for details."
What do they charge for the Admin fee, PDI, and freight? Sounds like a screamer come on. Are they factory program cars with miles? I can't recall boomchek saying that was his deal. If it is true - which I doubt from an ad - they must have undisclosed factory dealer cash.

corvette

Car prices are different in Canada, and they sometimes offer trim levels and equipment packages that are different there...

lrguy44

That explains things. I wonder what the MSRP of that car is.

jmonroe

dropping the old filter and making a mess.

I used to do this. Not anymore.

If I kept dropping the filter and making a mess I wouldn’t do it anymore either.

Seriously, and I’ve said this before a couple of times; the reason I still do it is because it is too inconvenient to take the car to anyone and wait for it to be done or drop it off then have to go back to get it. The time it takes to do that I’m already done and I’m working on my “honey do list”.

The worst part is having to trust someone else to do it right like the last time I had the oil changed by the dealer on the Genny in July. I told that tale when that happened (for more on this go over to “Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer” forum, posts 1191 and 1210).

Another coincidence talking about this, I just asked Son #1, last night, to pick up a couple of oil filters for the Genny at the dealer because the auto parts places around me still don’t have those filters in stock because the car model is pretty new.

Also, when I climb under the car it gives me a chance to snoop around under there. When the dealer did the oil change in July, it was pretty dark in the pit. That’s another thing I didn’t like. You should be able to see what you’re doing when you do it. This is probably a function of the incompetence of the place that I took it to but that’s just another nail in the coffin as to why I do not like having someone else touch my car when I can still do the simple stuff myself.

jmonroe

driver100

I wonder what the MSRP of that car is

Looks like it is $29,999! In the ad that price has an X through it.

Price: $29,995 $16,999
Payment: $123*
Body Style: Minivan
Fuel Type: Flexible Fuel
Transmission: 4 Speed Sport Automatic O/D
Drive Train: Front Wheel Drive
Exterior: N/A
Interior: Grey, Cloth
Stock #: New 2010 Grand

driver100

Dodge Caravan ad:
84 month lease / bi-weekly payments --- LOL
What does "CANADIAN VALUE PKG $78 WKLY TAX INCLUDED" mean?
Something is still missing......

I asked boomer about this ad a few days ago. He said he had all kinds of Caravans all ready and set to go at that price...no add ons.

driver100

Car prices are different in Canada, and they sometimes offer trim levels and equipment packages that are different there...

Yes, car prices are usually higher here. I asked boom and he says he has lots of these all ready to roll, at that price. Personally, I think there has to be a trick somewhere, but I can't find it. I don't think they are demonstrators because they are 2010s!

murphydog

Cars may be a different animal due to the various dealership laws - but in other indudstries the manufacturer absolutely sets prices. Not all but some clearly do, e.g. Apple, Weber and Bose.

I have never explored the "how" behind doing this and clearly some competitors don't do the same thing.

LA

lrguy44

They are making money on this deal somehow. I hope boomer explains. The crossed out figure may or may not be the MSRP. My guess is dealer cash from the factory. Anyway, a manufacturer or dealer can sell at MSRP if they wish and have done so without any government intervention.

driver100

, a manufacturer or dealer can sell at MSRP if they wish and have done so without any government intervention.

Agree........but I don't think the manufacturer can tell a dealer a car has to sell at a certain price. Dealer can sell above, at, or below MSRP. I am just not too sure how much MSRP really means. Most D3 cars you can probably negotiate easily at least 10% off MSRP, Japanese cars possibly 5%, Luxury Euro cars 3 to 5% if not in short supply. That has been my experience.

graphicguy

several posters have mentioned checking Fiztmall. I have done it many times too and 'in demand' vehicles can have msrp listed as the sales price.

explorer.....don't know which vehicles you were looking at, but I just did a quick gander at a few vehicles.

-j's '09 V8 Genesis all loaded up, range from about $35K-$38K. Don't know why the discrepancy. Color perhaps? In any event, all were under invoice, by a pretty fair amount.

-Looked at Nissan Maximas....there were '10 models, so very current. About $5K off MSRP and well under MSRP.

-The beloved Subaru Outbacks, new style, current models, at or near invoice.

Which cars are you looking at that are high demand over at Fitzmall?

driver100

They are making money on this deal somehow. I hope boomer explains.

See Post 47282 and boomers reply 47290, at least until he comes in today. He is 3 hours behind, Pacific Time.

grandtotal

Nothing is missing. The price of the van is $16999. To that you have to add an admin fee ($299), some sort of lien registration fee typically $44, destination of $1400, A/C Tax of $100, ADM of $700 and sales taxes (13%). When you do that you end up with a total very close to $22000. If you borrow $22000 at the quoted interest rate, 7.6%, over 84 months the bi-weekly payments work out to be $156 which is $78 per week.

Note that I have no idea what the ADM covers, but you have to add it in to make the calculation work.

driver100

Note that I have no idea what the ADM covers, but you have to add it in to make the calculation work

Thank you for your help gt. Actually in one ad the admin fee was $499. I just saw an ad this week (National newspaper) for what looks like the same vehicle and it is $19999. Maybe if they keep raising the price each week people will think they better buy now.

tallman1

I've heard that the finest people have birthdays on Nov. 13. The date, not the year is what Kirstie and I have in common. Now who is going to chip in and buy each of us a new car today????

boomchek

We have same models Grand Caravans but not that cheap. They're usually priced at about $22k with freight after rebates. I emailed them to inquire about it. We'll see what their reply will be.

boomchek

The MSRP of that model is not $29999, unless it had some extra options. It should be about $28k and change. It's very hard to compare doemstic products because the model name may be the same but a lower model might be loaded with individual options that would put the price higher than the next model up.

You can equip a Caravan SE to be priced higher and better equipped than an SXT.

jipster

The date, not the year is what Kirstie and I have in common. Now who is going to chip in and buy each of us a new car today????

You got the hots for Kirstie or something? Anyhow, I'll chip in a couple bucks. Happy Birthday!

tallman1

You got the hots for Kirstie or something?

Sorry, Jip... happily married here. Our CarSpace pages have the birthday list option so I try to wish her a happy day each year. (Why else would she post it?) Easy day for me to remember.

Maybe I'll go see if yours is posted and try to get my old feeble brain to remember to send you greetings on your special day. :shades: Or maybe I'll just buy your book.

driver100

We have same models Grand Caravans but not that cheap.

There's an ad in the Globe and Mail today $19999 with $6000 off in savings!

jmonroe

I've heard that the finest people have birthdays on Nov. 13. The date, not the year is what Kirstie and I have in common. Now who is going to chip in and buy each of us a new car today????

Well...for sure you ain't going to get no car but that does explain why our dues just went up. :mad:

jmonroe

driver100

MSRP of that model is not $29999, unless it had some extra options. It should be about $28k and change.

Ad is in our local paper today but different. It is a national ad and says Best Price of the Year - 2010 Dodge Grand Caravan, Canada Value Package, $19,998 0% for 36 months, Consumer Cash discounts $6000. Lots of options inc Electronis Stability Program.

Another ad in todays paper shows a 2010 Corolla CE and in big numbers $9,888* Also says, DRIVEAWAY and ALL TAXES INCLUDED!
That grabbed my attention, then I noticed the star.
Can you guess the catch?
?
?
?
In small print that you almost need a magnifying glass it says, Pre-paid-24-month lease.
Just my opinion, but personally, I would rather go to another dealer if I wanted a Toyota, this just seems like a cheap trick.

jipster

so I try to wish her a happy day each year

Well, that's a nice gesture. And here I was thinking you wanted to axe her out... shame on me.

Maybe I'll go see if yours is posted and try to get my old feeble brain to remember to send you greetings on your special day. Or maybe I'll just buy your book.

No need to look it up, just add a week onto your birthday. Mine was just last week, November 6th. So I'll take you up on that offer to buy one of my books.. I'm pretty sure I'll still have some available next year.

roadburner

Fourteen years ago this weekend I took delivery of my 318ti Club Sport. After 118,000 miles I still love driving it. No plans to sell it, either. As a matter of fact, the Mazdaspeed hasn't been taken out of the garage since last Friday; the ti is a much more involving and entertaining drive.

sterlingdog

It's also Friday, the 13th. No car for you this year.

Perhaps Driver can get you one of those deals he keeps posting about today.

Happy Birthday!

Richard

snakeweasel

Most things don't sell for MSRP and the manufacturer does not set prices unless they have their own stores and then they only set the prices in their own stores. Most of the ones you mention do tend to restrict who carries their product as not to create to much competition for their own location. Both Bose and Apple have their own stares and limits who ca sell their mainline items which inflates the price (think of it this way if only Bose and one other retailer sells Bose in an area what incentive does the other retailer have to reduce their price over the Bose store price?).

As for other products prices are pretty much the same in the same geographical area simple because retailers are trying to be competitive and shop the other stores. You mentioned Weber, all four places near me that carry Weber sells the same models at the same price. But that price is not MSRP but when one lowers their price the other three with match it.

But I will give one example. I went to Sears, Targets, Bestbuy and ABT electronics websites and looked up a Samsung 40 inch TV Model number LN40B530 Each site listed MSRP as $849.99. Sears lists it as $749.99, Target is $799.99, BestBuy $713.99 and Abt is $769.99. Four stores one MSRP and 4 selling prices.