General Motors discussions

1164165167169170558

Comments

  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    I'm not all that concerned about residual value. I pretty much drive my cars into the ground (well over 100 k miles), so the $ difference at that point isn't worth worrying about.

    I already have one Volvo and really like it. I don't think I want a first-year intro, however. I'll wait for the 07 C70, if only for the iPod connectivity. I could see doing another overseas delivery, also.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    European delivery is good thing. You usually save money too.

    Did not mean to diss the C70. It looks beautiful and appears to have the substance behind the looks. Needs proving though.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Needs a AWD "R" version on the C-70 to get me excited about it. ;) GM you'd think would counter by giving us a Buick Velite Convertible and a new image it needs desperately. :sick:

    Rocky
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    rorr - My statement that the Mustang rides on a heavily modified Mazda 3 platform is true, but to drive the point home maybe I should have written "heavily" like this - HEAVILY and surrounded it with flashing lights. :-)

    The car certainly doesn't ride on the LS RWD platform and thank goodness for it. If it did, the car would cost a lot more or would not make any money for Ford. Deep, deep down, the new Mustang is really a Mazda. Its even built in an old Mazda factory I believe.
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    GM is having enough troubles with the G6 convertible hard-top - I'm not sure I want them throwing another one at us.

    Doesn't the Caddy XLR have a hardtop? Does that one have problems?
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    GM is having enough troubles with the G6 convertible hard-top - I'm not sure I want them throwing another one at us.

    What problems? There were some pre-launch engineering issues, which are pretty normal. The only problem the G6 Convertible is having now is that the market wants more than GM planned to make this model year.

    Doesn't the Caddy XLR have a hardtop? Does that one have problems?

    Yes and no.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yes the XLR is a hardtop and nope I haven't heard any problems with it. I also haven't heard any problems with the G6 hardtop and am surprised you have. :surprise:

    What mechanism is failing on it (G6) ????

    I haven't heard any problems with the high-tech 3 folding panel C-70's hard-top either. A hard top IMO is better than a rag top. It will last longer and only the motor will need to be replaced. A Rag-Top will need to be replaced every 5-10 years and it can't protect you from hail like we get often here in the Tx Panhandle. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    I think I'd rather have the hail blow through my ragtop than completely destroy my hard top. The ragtop will be cheaper to replace.

    You haven't heard of any problems with the G6 top? That means you aren't spending any time on the G6 thread in this forum.

    I'm not saying it is any more than isolated incidents. Nor am I saying that I wouldn't want to buy one (though I don't think I'd be happy with the G6 level of luxury and refinement. Then again, what I am driving now is probably less luxurious and less refined than the G6)
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Oh darn, I thought that was going to be 5yr. bumper to bumper. Better than a kick in the butt, but not quite close to say Hyundai.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    OK, what is superior about the CTS compared to Chrysler 300 platform, chassis, body, structure, metals, handling, interior, seating, standard equipment, ergonomics, performance, and drivetrain? Something worth the $5-7K? Could be.
    -Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Ride, handling, control at speed, road feel, braking.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Let's see a BMW3 starting price is $30,900 is a German car. Considering the US dollar value, shouldn't a Bimmer cost more than a Cadillac CTS? Maybe the BMW is the value player? Perhaps Mercedes is selling on the cheap. Take a look at the current value of the dollar vs. the Euro dollar. When I was young a Mercedes or a BMW was a significantly higher priced auto than was say a Cadillac. Looks like the gap has closed.

    The DaimlerChrysler marriage may be the only other cars to consider, if rear wheel drive is important. Chrysler/Dodge seem to be pretty reasonably priced.

    If FWD cuts it for ya, there are so many more options. For the least expensive V6, safe car, the Sonata, to Acuras, Audis to VWs. I still don't see how the RWD platform has to cost all that much more than the FWD cars. The Charger is $22K, which isn't too bad.
    -Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Take a look at the current value of the dollar vs. the Euro dollar. When I was young a Mercedes or a BMW was a significantly higher priced auto than was say a Cadillac. Looks like the gap has closed.

    When you were young Cadillacs were not riding on the platforms they are now.

    I still don't see how the RWD platform has to cost all that much more than the FWD cars. The Charger is $22K, which isn't too bad.

    Again, it is not just the platform, it is the rwd Sigma platform - or the BMW, MB, Jaguar, Lexus - that is expensive.

    GM can, (and apparently is, if rumors of a next gen rwd Impala are true) make a less costly rwd platform.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Ride, handling, control at speed, road feel, braking.

    ....
    Yes, all good things to consider, especially when paying a premium price. Any reviews done as a side by side test between the CTS and 300 cars? My understanding is that the 300 is suppose to have those qualities as mentioned. If the CTS has the edge. It would interesting to see as to what degree this platform shows its magic compared to a less expensive one in the 300.

    And at the same price, would you buy the BMW, Mercedes or a Cadillac entry car? Oops, sorry Infinity. I guess they have a starter RWD too, in the G35. Which car is the buy here? Is the CTS a real contender?
    -Loren
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,803
    Looking at C class and 3er prices now vs say 1986, and then looking at the dollar vs DM and Euro, and these cars compared to higher line models of their makes, the German entry lux really are cheaper relative to both the market and the money.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    You mean entry luxury, correct?

    The BMW has a performance edge over the Cadillac and the MB. The BMW is smaller than the Cadillac. The CTS with the sport suspension and manual while not quite as adept as the BMW (it is a heavier car) is nevertheless very good. As I could never see having two vehicles, the CTS may win out as being more practical while still meeting the fun quotient.

    Most people prefer the BMW and MB interior to the Cadillac. I think the Cadillac interior looks ok. Things are where they are supposed to be, which is good enough for me. I am no fan of wood and leather in cars in any event. As we have seen from the many spy shots, etc., looks as though the '08 CTS (which will be available sometime next year) will have more of the Audi interior that all the me-toos in today's me-too market seem to demand.

    I think the CTS looks better outside than either. More original.

    G35 is alright as well. A good driver's car. Infinities have never done it for me.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    The vast majority of people that I know buying BMW's and Mercedes would never consider a Cadillac CTS or an GM/Ford anything. They are almost cult like in their following of their European brands (and yes, snobbery is a big consideration). For them to even consider a Lexus/Acura/Infinity is a big deal. The best GM can hope for is to get those affluent young buyers before they consider a BMW/Mercedes. After that they are lost.
  • elkiiielkiii Member Posts: 50
    The 1998 GP GTP had the supercharged 3.8 that supposedly produced 240 HP and 280 ft lb of tourqe. Thing felt like it had the 3.1. Never seemed to be happy unless floored.

    I've also driven GM cars from rental fleets over the years and noticed the same problem. Part throttle response sucked. Ttue, if you put enough HP behind it then its better. I currently own a '05 GTO with a 6sp and it pull like a locomotive in 6th.

    As you are pointing out, the combo of engine and gearing greatly influences drivibility. GM for years has avoided developing a truely new 5sp auto for their cars. As a result, when you had a big heavy car like the GP GTP and you wanted good highway mileage numbers and low NVH at highway speeds you put in really tall final gearing. The result is like you describe for your Intrepid.

    Another example is the 4sp auto in the GTO. Yes, it has tons of HP. But still, you don't have enough gears to get good elapsed times 0-60 etc. AND keep the RPMs low enough on the highway for better mileage. As a result you get a car that beats the 6sp 0-60 but get significanly worse highway mileage and higher highway RPMS do to the necessity of running shorter gearing to get those 0-60 times. (So much for not "needing" more gears because a V8 has more grunt).
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Loren,

    Is their still a butt load of Saabs on the lot their in your neck of the woods ??

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The following is the final joint statement issued this evening by GM, Renault, Nissan.

    GM, Renault, Nissan Issue Joint Statement
    DETROIT (July 14, 2006) -- General Motors, Renault and Nissan today said that an exploratory discussion was held between Carlos Ghosn, President and Chief Executive Officer of Renault, SAS and Nissan Motor Co., Ltd., and Rick Wagoner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Motors, Corp., regarding the possibility of creating an industrial alliance among these three companies. The companies agreed to cooperate in an expeditious, confidential review of the potential benefits of such an alliance to each company and the feasibility of achieving them.

    “We had a good discussion today, and are looking forward to having our teams work together to explore our ideas,” said Wagoner and Ghosn. “It is important to let our teams work on this review without distraction and, therefore, we will not be providing further public comments about it at this time.”

    It is expected that this review will take approximately 90 days. Following this review, the companies will consider whether further exploration of the alliance concept is warranted.
  • billingsleybillingsley Member Posts: 69
    I haven't seen much of a discsussion on trucks. I think that GM, Ford make much better trucks than the Japanese. I'm considering a diesel partially for longevity. I've never understood the reasoning behind pricing the diesel so much higher. I want to haul a travel trailer and the diesel with the torque seems to be the way to go.

    :)
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    I always enjoy Peter DeLorenzo's (Autoextremist) view.

    He is a constructive critic and also a true fan of the Detroit auto industry.

    He truly believes a turnaround for GM and Ford has to come from within, not from the outside.
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    There is little danger of any one company gaining a monopoly in the auto industry.

    Toyota had that idea and has the money but is sitting tight these days.

    Toyota fears their success may spark protectionist legislation in Europe and the USA if GM or Ford goes down.

    Nissan, Renault and GM combined aren't a monopoly threat even if that was Ghosn's desire.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    The vast majority of people that I know buying BMW's and Mercedes would never consider a Cadillac CTS or an GM/Ford anything.

    This is true in my case and I'd like to say why. I have owned only American cars, mostly GM's, a few Fords and 3 Chryslers including my last 2 Jeeps (I could buy almost any car but I don't want to be showy and I like to be a regular person so I liked the Jeeps).Also, my American cars were pretty good, no major problems.

    I tried out a ____(European Car___)just to see what the difference could be. I always had an impression American cars are stronger, they are made for American tastes, they are all I would ever want.

    So, I went for a test drive in a ___Euro-car____. I couldn't believe the difference. The steering is like it is on rails, the feel of the road is incredible, the controls are easy to read and reach, the seats are as comfortable as possible, the engine is lively and has a nice sporty sound, it feels like it was made by engineers who love to drive and have a spirit of what a car should be....not made by bean counters or from parts from the lowest bidder. Great seating position, big windows and excellent vision.

    The styling will look good in 10 or 20 years from now. It will look better over time, unlike American cars that get dated, Intrepids, Chrysler 300, Breeze, Cavalier, Malibu, Taurus, etc.

    It has every safety device possible...no skimping on air bags, or ABS or traction control. 4 wheel drive all the time, and the cost is less than an American car if it had all the same options...or very close. It will cost less to drive because of the trade in value.

    So, you are right, it would take a huge jump in engineering and value for me to go back. Why have a hot dog if you have steak....especially for about the same price?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Can someone explain this.

    There is an article in the paper that said that Japan just raised their central bank interest rate to .25% from .069%. The article basically said that Japanese consumers and business's had free money. Did the government really give free money or do banks in Japan lend money at a more normal rate and make lots of profits?

    I do know that the Japanese in the past were against being in debt and perhaps no one borrowed the money even if it was free? Me, I would borrow a million and invest in US bonds or something. Or maybe buy part of GM like Nissan is?
  • manegimanegi Member Posts: 110
    Japan has had "free money" since 1999, and this is due to the fact that it was one of the very few economies to experience a prolonged bout of deflation - In such a situation, even at 0% the "real" interest rate can be very high, since the prices (that goods and services fetch) are actually going down. My own opinion is that this resulted from the excesses of late 80s (when for a few years after the Plaza accord the Japanese economy was "overstated" due to the sharp appreciation of the Yen), and it took almost a decade of deflation to bring it back in line with reality.

    Yes, a lot of hedge funds etc did play the "carry trade" game, borrowing super cheap yen, and investing in other higher yielding assets. Now if the interest rates start going up, it is going to squeeze this excess liquidity out of markets worldwide (see what has happened to New Zealand), and might ultimately turn out to be the last straw that breaks the back of US housing market.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Toyota fears their success may spark protectionist legislation in Europe and the USA if GM or Ford goes down.

    That's a good thing. If you want to sell it here, build it here. If you build it outside the country, then you are tariff ed. :)

    Rocky
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    An interesting observation. I brought my '05 Kia Rio Cinco to my local dealer Saab/Kia dealer.Their service department drive way is on side for Kia and the other side for Saab. Yesterday I took my Kia it's for it's first 3,000 mile check up. When i turned into the service drive I was surprised to see that the Kia side had 1 in line and the Saab side had 20 (most 2003 and later)!! I just couldn't help my self to go over to the busy Saab service writer. I asked him "so are a lot of these Saab owners are either very religious about mantainence or the have a lot of trouble with them"? He shussed me and whispered only 2 are here for regular maintenece. The rest are here because of mechanical problems.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I look through my old Car & Driver's and found that in comparision tests they lumped the six cylinder (3.5 V6) 300 into their family sedan comparision, rather than the sports sedan comparision. The CTS was included in the sports sedan comparision.

    It is my opinion that the 300 is too large a sedan to be a serious sports sedan. The 300 is about the same size as the Buick Lucerne or Cadillac DTS, both FWD cars. Or dare I say the same size as the Mercedes S-class. The BMW 3-series is BMW's best handling sports sedan. The point I am getting at here is that the 300 is a nice big sedan, but is not (even in 300C form) a true sports sedan in the way that the BMW 3-series is.

    The basic problem that the CTS has had is that it is larger than the 3-series, but only has a V6 for power (except in the V-series form), and the interior is a bit too plastic looking. The CTS is perhaps more of an American sports sedan than the 3-series. The 300 is an American sedan for the early 21st century.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    WOW :surprise: I wonder if Volvo (presently) is better than Saab in reliability ???

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The correct answer is none of the above. Both are poorer as survey scores indicate. They are not poor perhaps, but poorer than Japan, Korean and American makes.
    -Loren
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    All I know is our 1995 Volvo had more problems than any car I have owned. 3 dealers tried to find the problem in the computers before they could fix it. Our daughters 1999 Volvo has had over $5,000 in repairs to the transmission...which took several dealers and head office to try to fix.
    No more Volvos, Bosch dishwashers (expensive and broke down right after the warranty - $300) and as of Friday no more Sony T-V's. The projection bulb in the LCD rear projection TV was supposed to last 10 years with normal use but lasted just over two years with light use - $350.

    One more thing Rocky and everyone. The new Accura RDX will have all the gadgetry (talk about gadgetry)possible and this will be a hot segment in the market and GM is being left behind in the dust.
    Accura RDX
    The specs sound pretty good! :)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    Was Volve owned by Ford in 1995? That matches the high problem rates boss and coworkers had with their Volvos. But somehow the image of Volvo doesn't take a hit over all the flaws.

    If this were GM we'd hear the details on each story without the part about lack of maintenance leading to problems in a few cases.

    The Sony bothers me I bought a 30in tube a couple years ago. There are a few things I don't like; but mostly I like what I got. Am I likely to have an early failure?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    The Volvo was one of the first Ford made Volvos. IMO Volvo has built up their reputation as being "safe", and they are pretty good, but there are cars that are just as safe I am sure. They just stress that to be a strong point. What they do lack is a real feel for the road and being a "drivers car". Not real exciting!

    Re: Sony. First LCD TV's are a great invention and though they cost about twice as much they should last twice as long. Great clear picture, very bright, and slim and light.
    Your 30 inch tube TV should probably last 15 years without much trouble. If it does break down it is better to just get a new one, once you start into repairs you will waste your money. If you don't need leading edge technology, a tube TV is the lowest price for the best possible picture. What I have is an LCD with a rear projection bulb which has the advantage of being fixable if it breaks down. Fixing an LCD or plazma TV is almost impossible and way too costly...better to get a new one when it goes. My problem was the bulb should have lasted 10 years. On top of that the TV sells for half what it did 2 years ago, but the bulb is the same price ($300). Also, most places take 10 to 15 days to order a bulb. I was lucky and found one service guy who happened to have a bulb. Sony customer service is almost non-existant unless you don't mind a form letter emailed to you. I wrote back to there response, "blah blah blah, thanks for nothing" and they wrote back with more advice and hoped I would buy their products in the future, Hah hah hah!!!
    But, don't worry about the tube TV, they use good old solid known technology...just like GM. When it does go check out the LCD's, they should be pretty cheap by then (Toshiba or Panasonic).

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    "REPORT: Toyota considering GM linkup
    Toyota Motor Corp. is considering making a bid to link with General Motors, according to a report in BusinessWeek magazine. The move would be aimed at trumping a proposed alliance between GM and Renault-Nissan."

    This is from autonews.com. I don't know whether this is good or bad for GM. Hopefully good. But GM reminds me of the fallen giant beast that every hyena wants a piece of.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah I know the RDX will have lots of gadgets. The new X3 appears to have raised the bar again though. I wonder what the Enclave will look like ? What I mean is Bob going to butcher it with cost cutting ? :mad:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So even presently Volvo isn't that reliable either....hmmmmm interesting. I guess I'd be willing to take that gamble if I got the right deal. ;)

    Rocky
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    I wonder what the Enclave will look like ? What I mean is Bob going to butcher it with cost cutting ?

    IMO when companies are up against the wall, cost cutting takes place. They have to try to cover it up, but there is a difference if you are making and selling cars at a profit...as in Honda/Toyota.
    The RDX has a lot of content for the money and will probably be $10,000 less than an X3, which could put a lot of people into a very sophisticated vehicle at a good price.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    agree

    Rocky
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    I always had this perception of Volvo is that they're sturdy and durable, and perhaps even reliable, but maintenance costs can kill ya.

    My neighbors had a 1989 Volvo 740 wagon in what I called "'85 LeSabre Gray" (it was the same shade as my Grandma's LeSabre). They bought it used, around 1990-91. In 1998 they got rid of it and bought a Subaru Legacy wagon. I remember them saying that it got to the point that everytime something went bad on it, nobody local would work on it so they had to take it back to the Volvo dealer in VA, 20-some miles away. And it got to the point that every visit cost them something like $1000, and they were happening with alarming frequency.

    They still have the Sube, so evidently it's working for them. I do remember the interior on it was getting pretty ratty looking by about 50K miles, though. Door panel trim coming loose, carpeting wearing out, etc.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    >I do remember the interior on it was getting pretty ratty looking by about 50K miles, though. Door panel trim coming loose, carpeting wearing out, etc.

    I thought all foreign cars were wonderful and finely-fitted and made only of top quality plastics inside and the GMs sucked. This sounds opposite.

    The experience with Volvos matches coworkers. One did have a local garage to work on his but it spent 6 weeks waiting for a part, e.g. And the advertisements with reinforced roofs and putting a full-sized Olds on top of the Volvo didn't get the laughs in reporting it should have at the time because they all admired the "wonder of Volvo." Strength doesn't equate with survivability. Andre's GM pickup is strong.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    "wonder of Volvo."
    Just an impression, but at one time Volvos were pretty solid. The ones from the 60's and 70's were pretty good, and you occassionally see one still around today. But, by the 90's they were falling behind the Germans in handling, and the Japanese in reliability. Then Ford coming on the scene was the final straw. Volvo's still have nice Euro styling, and I do hear stories from people who like their Volvos, but I have had or seen first hand too many bad experiences.

    Advertising is just advertising, usually made up by a company that really doesn't own or know the product that well. Volvo hooked into the "safety" of their cars, and they do strive to make the safest cars possible, but many cars strive for safety too, but feature better road handling and/or reliability. I had the impression our '95 was slightly better than Taurus rental cars I had driven, and was more like a Ford than a Euro-car.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    There is an ad here on my left...so I took the test "Chevy vs. the Competition". You go to a Chevy vehicle and it will tell you that the model of Chev that you are looking at is better than a certain vehicle in one particular area. For example the Impala is better than a Honda LX 6 cyl. in mpg's. It doesn't state the Honda has a longer warranty on the drive train, has a better trade in value, better reliability, is a lot of fun to drive and has great handling. But, the Impala gets better mileage, in a particular situation no doubt, like at 63 mph, in a 23 mph head wind with all the windows rolled 1/4 of the way down.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I have a sony lcd projection TV and I think that someone said the bulb should last about 10,000 hours. So, you should only be using your TV 1000 hrs per year or about 20 hours per week -> not more than 3 hours per day if you expect 10 years of life. I expect mine to last about 3 years. Replacement cost is now $200.

    The bad thing about the CRT TV's are the X-rays.
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    Interesting. The same guy who says this: "All I know is our 1995 Volvo had more problems than any car I have owned"

    said THIS

    "I have owned only American cars, mostly GM's, a few Fords and 3 Chryslers
    including my last 2 Jeeps (I could buy almost any car but I don't want to be showy and I like to be a regular person so I liked the Jeeps)"

    in an earlier post :surprise:

    I guess you can't believe everything you read, eh? :sick:

    Except for the anti-Ford folks, no one calls the Volvo an American car
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    J. D. Power's long term reliability survey show's both SAAB and Volvo below the industy average, but not nearly at the bottom. Kia was at the bottom.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    All I know is our 1995 Volvo had more problems than any car I have owned"

    Good detective work alp8 normally, but what I said was completely true. It was my wifes car, and she had 2 Volvos before that were very good. I don't know if that clarifies things or makes sense to you.......but my current car is my first Euro car after I believe 12 American cars. In college I had a Volkswagen (forgot that is Euro) and before that an Envoy (British car) and an Austin Sprite (also, British for the record).

    It is actually a stronger statement that I kept buying American cars when my wife preferred foreign cars. I was even be defending my American cars!

    Hope that explains it....are you a detective/ or watching to much CSI?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,684
    I have a sony lcd projection TV and I think that someone said the bulb should last about 10,000 hours.

    Exactly. The TV is used about an average of 3 hours a day so it should have lasted 10 years. Bulb would be $200 from the wholesale place that would order it and would take 10 to 15 days, the repair guy who had a bulb charged $300 with taxes.

    I thought the X-rays would be less with LCD??? :confuse:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    it wasn't exactly "detective" work - you made conflicting statements in back-to-back posts, both read in one reading of the thread
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    there are rumors Toyota wants to get back into the joint agreement biz with GM, to avert the formation of the mega-car company tha would be the R-N-GM alliance.

    They have had joint agreements ever since the advent of NUMMI (the jointly operated Fremont, CA plant) almost 20 years ago. Matrix/Vibe, the old Corolla/Prizm, etc.

    I think this would be more of a sharing arrangement than the Renault-Nissan thing. With them owning 20% or more of GM, and Kerkorian another 10 when he is so clearly aligned with them, I still think this would wind up making GM a division of some foreign company within a decade.

    But maybe it is a moot point. Early rumbles are that Ghosn isn't that thrilled about running GM anyway, even as the head of a 3-company alliance.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.