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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    I saw that same commercial and thought, "Look what that meteor did to that poor Town Car!" Heck, I'd buy an old school Town Car in a second if I could find an nice low-mileage one. The livery companies seem to snap them up in a second when one comes on the market.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    I dig the dashboard on the Navigator! It reminds me of the control panel on the goldenrod-colored Hotpoint stove my Mom had in the early 1970s!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,928
    It reminds me of something out of a 70s Lincoln.
  • e_net_ridere_net_rider Posts: 1,380
    I had to look at it. From that a quote I said a while back.
    "By combining our consumer research with trade-in data, we see a clear correlation between dependability and loyalty," said Sargent.
    But looking at a couple of vehicles I'm familiar with, Lacrosse CXS and friends with Lucernne, I can't believe the ratings. Some of us are getting vehicles that don't measure up, and that brings into question the MKZ rating.
    In order for Lincoln to be Lincoln again, they have to go out on the limb and build something like the Olds Aurora. Nothing like it. Unless you look at the Buick version which modified the body for a 4 door version. Totally different power-train with a 3.8 super-charged. After Olds died, the 4.0 V8 was used in Buick for a short time before moving to the bigger version of the Northstar.
    I've already kicked the 13 MKS a bit. Let me add that stupid strap for trunk pull down. The build in handles each side of center are better. And I'd like to add air noise for my 2010. Only 28K miles. This is very disappointing that I'd start to hear outside noise so early on. It occurs from both driver and passenger side. I've looked the seals, both door and windows, over and don't spot an issue. It just seems to be typical Ford noise, poor design. With acoustic glass you'd think they might have stepped up the whole area. Add in that I'm now getting some buzz, low frequency, that occurs when bass notes are played, coming from driver door. Sort of like something is loose and vibrating with the low notes.
  • I was at the Chicago Auto Show the past week. No, I didn't get shot. Some of you may wish I had. But enough of that. I seen the MKZ in person. The front grill work with the incorporated front lights resembles the grin of Lewis Carroll's character Cheshire Cat from Alice In Wonder. It looks nothing like the grill work of the 1940 Continental. However, as a whole, the body style is attractive. It certainly is better than what it's replacing. Will this increase sales? I guess it depends if Lincoln can convince prestige buyers that it is more than an expensive tarted up Ford.

    The reason why the MKZ has a few similar styling cues with the Mondeo/ Fusion cousins are because they all share platform hard points. At least that's what I was told from the person at the Lincoln exhibit. This allows for using a single platform to build all three vehicles in a manufacturing plant in Mexico. He said body parts are only interchangeable for platform sharing. I was informed this allows for supply and demand to determine production values for each vehicle with the least amount of manufacturing inputs . All of this I knew. It was just for my vindication that a Ford person explained to me the reason the MKZ has similar styling cues to its cheaper cousins.
    Someone wrote that the Navigator presently has a bespoke platform. Presently it doesn't. It shares platforms with its obsolete Ford cousins. Lincoln will never have a bespoke platform. I am afraid the brand may never be popular with enough buyers to have one.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I think they probably meant that the Navigator and Expedition are on a bespoke platform derived from the F150 but significantly modified including independent rear suspension. That won't be the case going forward due to market shrinkage. They'll probably use the new F150 platform pretty much as is to keep costs down.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Actually, the Z does share the windshield and front door glass. That's not much and not very noticeable, but it is still too much, given that most brands do not do this anymore. By the way even though the Equinox and SRX do share some underpinnings, they share less than you seem to think.

    Yes - well, as you say (relating to the SRX and Equinoxious), "it is still too much, given that most brands do not do this anymore".

    Glass vs. underpinnings.....? What Ford is guilty of doing in the past times 3, GM has done times 5, (Venture, Relay, Terraza, Montana, Silouette, & Traverse, Acadia, Outlook, Enclave, etc., ), but Ford gets taken to task for it far more.....
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    edited February 2013
    Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed? I have never once suggested that GM did not do the same thing as Ford in the past. I don't think anyone else has suggested that either.

    There are myriad examples from past decades of Ford doing this over and over. No different from GM, except that Ford has continued the practice longer. Ford saw fit in the past few years to use some of the same panels and glass between Fords and Lincolns, while GM stopped sharing the same body with Chevys and Cadillacs (other than the Escalade--but then Ford and Nissan and Volkswagen for examples do the same thing for cost reasons) several years ago.

    My point, if I am allowed to have one, is that there is still some glass and panel sharing between the Fusion and MKZ, although it is greatly reduced and not noticeable to most eyes. However, all such sharing should be eliminated now, in order to separate Lincoln more from the better Fords. And this is the plan. It is just not accomplished yet.

    BTW, the SRX does share some components with Equinox and Terrain. But the SRX is a combination of the current Theta, along with elements of the Epsilon 2 architecture, with some Lambda components (Buick Enclave et al) as well. This platform is sometimes also referred to as Theta-Epsilon. Theta Premium supports larger models than the standard platform. Thus the SRX is built on a premium midsize crossover architecture unique to Cadillac. The Terrain and the Chevrolet Equinox are built on the compact crossover architecture. If you see the Equinox and SRX parked together, you see the rooflines, doors, windows, lines and front and rear are completely it should be. They even have somewhat different wheelbases.

    That is the type of differentiation that Ford is shooting for between the Escape and MKC. And from here on out with other models that share platforms to some extent.

    GM has already turned that corner with their sedans. Although the Malibu and Regal share a platform, they share nothing in looks. Same with XTS, Lacrosse and the 2014 Impala. Or the Cruze and Verano.

    This move toward differentiation started with the old GM. For example, the 2004-2008 Grand Prix, the 2005-2009 Lacrosse and the 2000-2005 and 2006-2013 Impalas all shared a platform, but they did not share greenhouses or other body panels. The same complete differentiation existed already with the Malibu of a couple generations ago and the now defunct Pontiac G5. GM made a host of errors, but moving toward brand differentiation was not one of them.

    So no one is taking Ford to task for panel sharing, any more than when GM did. It is just that new Ford is not yet produced a completely differentiated Lincoln on a Ford platform. They soon will and they will do that with all new models going forward.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Sorry, didn't mean to annoy - just making a point.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Just saw the TV commercial for the Lincoln MKX. They've got a lot of chutzpah to compare this lumpy SUV to the classic 1940-41 Continental!
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    No problem. I think I got up on the wrong side of the bed.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Why is there not a "like" option in replying to these messages?
  • e_net_ridere_net_rider Posts: 1,380
    I saw a commercial yesterday for a different vehicle which reminded me we need stronger truth in advertising laws. Had Lincoln, actor, spewing one liners. He said, "whose your founding father?" The only ones that should admire him are mass murders. His war killed more Americans than all other wars. Total lack of diplomacy it seems.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    Troll is troll.

    BTW - that's a Honda ad.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Hello! Are you on the forum or thread you meant to be?

    BTW, those who know the sad statistic about civil war deaths, but little of the surrounding history and context, will often make misguided or uninformed statements about one or more of the players. But this thread is about Lincoln Motor Company, not political history.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Some of us have trouble getting beyond the War of Northern Aggression. ;)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    I got so tired of "reliving" that war growing up in the Deep South.

    Come to think of it, I did see lots more Cadillacs growing up than Lincolns. :shades:
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    that was quite surprising, at least to me...I only saw it for an instant, but a vehicle turned in front of me so I saw the side of the looked like a midsize SUV, looked to be new, but on the side it said "Town Car"...I am not there is new Town Car (just like the Taurus is new compared to the 2000 model I owned), or did some owner just stick letters on the side of his car?

    It sorta looked like an Edge, but I really was not sure, but the "Town Car" on the left side was unmistakeable...
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    edited February 2013
    Lincoln is marketing the MKT as a replacement for the Town Car in fleet applications. The Town Car version moves the second row back and has expansive leg and luggage room:

    MKT Town Car
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Cadillac is trying to capitalize on the void left by the Town Car in the livery fleets.

    "General Motors' luxury brand, which has long been in the chauffeur-car market but never had the success of Lincoln, has created a special fleet version of its new XTS sedan."

    Cadillac fills hole in limo industry (Detroit Free Press)
  • berriberri Posts: 7,749
    Looking at Lincoln's at the auto show, they are decent cars. However, I think their problem is that they are really more a Buick than a luxury car, yet they are priced the other way. I hope they can pull it off, but I'm not real optimistic about it's future unless future product really improves or pricing comes down. The new MKZ ws nice, but not $50K nice to me at least. For that money, their are better choices from the German's and Asians (and that's before resale value enters the equation).
  • Actually, it was Washington who uttered that line in the commercial.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, and it is a Honda commercial. And it is make believe. How easily people take their political corners in a millisecond. There is lots of scholarly analysis available on the Civil War era. Opinions might be muted some by reading a bit of it. Meanwhile, this is a thread about Lincoln Motor Company and Ford's plans for it. I remind you all of the obvious in the hopes that we can avoid a lot of political sniping about history and to get back to cars.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Meanwhile, this is a thread about Lincoln Motor Company and Ford's plans for it. I remind you all of the obvious in the hopes that we can avoid a lot of political sniping about history and to get back to cars

    Thanks - there were a couple of posts made by someone with a fake email address who didn't get the message after I removed the first one earlier today.
  • e_net_ridere_net_rider Posts: 1,380
    I did not mean to become so divergent, merely point out Lincoln the man has nothing to do with cars. And that history may not be so kind to Lincoln motor company, especially in the area of current opinion.
    Please don't elaborate. As to deaths, I could have said Iwo Jima was a bad plan, or that there are far more killed in cars than by guns. And that would have been inconguous as well.

    I do hope Lincoln Motor gets it act together. I am disappointed that I am starting to hear noise penetrating from around doors or window seals, on 2010 28K miles, and that seems to be a historic issue with many Ford platforms.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Good God, yet another fine car nameplate being dragged through the mud! Why don't they call it what it is - A TOWN TRUCK!
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Are they going to make an extended wheelbase XTS? One would think the Chrysler 300 would make for a natural limo conversion car as it still employs RWD.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    You know, I think the trend these days is luxury small rigs. The kids don't want big gas sucking behemoths but they do want the gadgets.

    For example, look at the MB CLA-Class.

    The limo companies will just have to start stretching their own rigs. There's plenty of long Hummer limos around and I've seen a stretched Suburban or two.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    Good God, yet another fine car nameplate being dragged through the mud! Why don't they call it what it is - A TOWN TRUCK!

    In reality, the Lincoln Town Car wasn't a town car at all. A true town car had an open driver compartment.

    As for the MKT Town Car - it's marketing son...
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