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Comments
Maybe if there are enough positive feedback, we can convince Honda to bring it to North America. Heres some Pics for starters. Comments anyone?
That's why we don't see the Fit, Jazz, A-class,
Lupo or Polo here. Nice cars all, it's too bad.
P.S.- notice how much larger the new Mini is compared to the original (which didn't sell well in NA.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Look at the echo, it has built a very loyal following. Some of its owners even calling it cute and (imho) the Fit/Jazz is much better in that factor. Plus the reception of tall sw like the Focus and now the Matrix and Suzuki Aero does show there is a market in that area.
If the Fit/Jazz beat the Echo/Yaris in Japan and Europe, and if it has more space than the Focus sw then I can't see why it can't be a leader/trendsetter here in North America. Oh, and probably add the VW sw's in that too.
Honda may have a small window to bring it in quick and make a splash regardless because I think the Fit/Jazz would probably sell on its own merits alone for NOW. A few years later, the Focuses and the Echo's will have incorporated the advances it has made, and maybe even some bigger vehicles (vans, suv's) will start doing the same.
Honda should stay with the game plan to produce as many Odyssey, Pilot, MDX, and the CR-V the market will bare. There's a huge profit margins gained by producing these family haulers, It's great for the HMC stockholders too. Heck why not a Honda full size 4WD truck to compete with Ford F-150/250/350?
If HMC think Fit/Jazz will sell in N.A. why don't they build a factory here just for Fit/Jazz platform?
BTW 4 door HB Fit/Jazz looks like the Suzuki Aerio SX (2 liter DOHC 141hp, MSRP under $15k).
In fact (and I don't know how accurate the Jazz website is) it is amazing how at 2.25 feet shorter it has more space than the Focus sw. Probably having the wheels planted at the corners, a compact rear suspension and mid placed gas tank helped a lot.
living in Ottawa i do get to see some of superminis which I would guess are the Transport Canadas fuel efficiency test units. A purple A-class, a silver Audi 2, a Smart, plus a grey Insight and a green Prius that looks like privately owned. They do turn heads, but for only those who could recognize them.
anyway, heres a simple interior seat flip-flop animation for anyone interested.
(Civic 5 door and Stream would also be welcome, as well as an Accord wagon)
Early next year, Toyota will introduce the redesigned Vitz/Yaris, which is right now taking a beating in the Japanese market from the Fit. The Vitz, along with the Nissan March, will reduce demand for the Fit, thereby freeing up Fit capacity to meet North American needs.
http://www.osa.go.jp/anzen/html2002e/as114.html
compare it to 2002 CR-V score:
http://www.osa.go.jp/anzen/html2002e/as123.html
Either Honda has to get the Civic 5-door, or the Fit here next year. I think they will modify the Fit in some way to meet IIHS requirements, but I agree that some people with SUV fear may not buy it.
If Honda can import the current Civic Si 3-door from England, I don't see why they can't import the 5-door Civic hatchback as well. Sure, it might not look that great, but I think it will appeal to those who would consider a Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Matrix, but are put off by the cheesy "boy racer" design bits and want a more mature-looking vehicle.
In any case, if the Jazz/Fit doesn't make it to the U.S. in its current iteration, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar (i.e. one with the Magic Seat), but larger, Honda was introduced a couple of years down the road. Then again, that Honda Element is just around the corner... can't wait!!
http://www.honda.co.uk/new.html
1. I'm not crazy about the Stream's styling, particularly the C-shaped glass on the sides of the cargo area. It makes the rear cargo box look rather tail-heavy, as if the whole vehicle may tip back on its rear wheels.
2. To me, the concept doesn't seem all that different from the first-generation Honda Odyssey, although it is a bit smaller. I'm not a fan of seven-passenger vehicles with traditional swing-out rear doors; I prefer dual sliding doors. Having said that, I've never had the (dis)pleasure of climbing into the third seat of an Odyssey or an SUV, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be much different than climbing into the back seat of a 2-door coupe - something I personally dislike having to do. (Maybe it's because I'm 6' tall and weigh 230 lbs. I'm sure kids wouldn't mind as much...)
At this time, I'm more keen on five-passenger multipurpose vehicles, such as the VW Sharan (not sold in the US). It's too bad that vehicles like the early 1990's Nissan Axxess weren't more successful; although the Axxess had a clumpy ride, it was a pretty sound vehicle, conceptually speaking. I'd rather get a short wheelbase minivan, such as a Mazda MPV 3.0 V6, if I needed seven-passenger seating capability.
As for the seating capacity, I think most people who buy these cars don't actually use the jump seats in the back. They really are 5-seaters with the option of carrying an extra two in a last-minute pinch. I've got a 1st Gen Odyssey, and that's the way we use it. It's not practical for big families, but for us with two kids, its perfect, and the Stream would be too. I'm 6'5", and have ridden in the back row, and it is survivable, but not a lot of fun.
The Nissan Axxess was a great concept, but its execution was a bit flawed (skittish handling, especially in wet weather). It was sold in the US in 1990-91, but went on in Canada till '95. There's still lots on the road here. It had an optional AWD system, and in the early years could be had in 7-passenger configuration (those last two seats would have been inhumane!).
I have never understood why VW sells the Eurovan but not the Sharan in North America. The Sharan is much nicer to drive. The Opel Zafira would be good too, and I could see it being sold as a Saturn.
Now that it has a 3.0, the MPV is a decent small van. I wish Honda would bring over the Stream though, at least for Canada where gas is more expensive. Are you listening Honda???
The Sharan seats 7 not 5.
Stream seems very nice. I'm drooling over that 1.7 engine great mpg, and seating for 7. MPG 27/43 Imperial = 22/34 MPG US Gallons!!!!!! Wow!!!
What's not to like!?
As good as the Odyssey is, it's too big and burns too much gas for my needs. The Stream would be perfect, as the need to carry 7 would be only very occasional. The UK version has a sport-shift 5 speed automatic. Can't see any info on it being renamed the Latitude and coming here in 2003 or 4
(see posts in the SUV forum under Honda Element/Model X) but hope that comes true. A mild re-styling (especially the rear end) with a little more "attitude" would be welcome, with the 5 speed sport-shift and either the CR-V's or new Accords 4 banger........real-time 4WD would be nice too.
I also think the Fit/Jazz would be a fun car as well. I like it better than the Civic SiR hatch that is coming.
Oh yeah Honda, very important: Don't forget to add a 110 volt outlet so I can tap on the hybrids stored power while camping or away from home.
(Picture this: If people could brew in heavy traffic to work, wouldn't traffic rage cut in half? Of course accidents could double but at least we die happy... and the thought of watching attractive women dry their hair in bathrobes is worth the risk).
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Do NOT be surprised if Honda does unveil a US version of the Honda Jazz at the next Detroit International Auto Show in January 2003.
There's good reason for this: Honda will NOT stand idly by while Ford ships the Ford Fusion, which has been confirmed for the US market; the Fusion is based upon the latest Ford Fiesta platform.
What I envision is a US market model with the following changes:
1. Somwhat longer nose and slightly larger front and rear bumpers for better crash protection.
2. A more powerful engine, possibly a 1.5-liter i-VTEC unit rated at around 105 bhp, as opposed to the 83 bhp 1.3 liter engine found on the models sold in Japan and Europe. This is similar to what Toyota did for the Echo, essentially a US-market version of the Yaris model sold in Japan.
3. Air conditioning will be offered as an option.
4. There will be two transmission choices, either a five-speed manual or a CVT automatic.
It won't have the very high fuel mileage of the Japanese or European market Jazz but very likely the fuel mileage will be better than the Honda Civic HX five-speed coupe.
Would Americans buy such a car? I think given the renewed interest in economy cars it could do well, especially if Honda can put the CVT automatic in the Jazz.
I just can't get over how cute the Jazz is over the Latitude so I went back to the Jazz site to look over some of its 360* views.
Going thru the 360's made me realized how cute this thing looked in all angles, so good IMHO it should be able to compete with the MINI. It is not difficult to imagine tricked out Jazz's (yeah that should be the name here) zooming around should Honda provide an S version for the boy racer crowd. Forget about the Matrix or Scion, Honda can dominate that niche with only one model. Of course I'd go for the more fuel efficient models, but I can see the potential for the teeners.
I would just hate how that'd affect insurance rates for the Jazz.
Hey, Marcb, you mentioned over on the Latitude board that you had an Axxess once -- how was it? I'm considering a '94/'95 as an interim car till I can save enough pennies for a newer car. Any significant problems? I test drove one (in the rain) and it was very skitterish. It may have been the car/tires, but Consumer Reports once said it had dicey handling. Any real world concerns?
Prior to that the things I had to keep changing was the front CV boots (a lot!), tires (above normal). Had to change also the mufflers, struts, stabilizer bushings. Oh, i broke the spider gear once trying to induce a spin on an icy parking lot. That thingy felt zippy yet was very frugal with the tall OD gear. I'd get around 15km per litre hwy 10km city up til the goary end (around 37/25mpg).
True! my complaint is the dicey handling (wind steer, torque steer, lean on turns) and a lot of wind/engine noise. The body itself felt rather flimsy: drive a wheel over a low curb and it twists willingly.
The lite slide doors didn't give a secure feeling either (never crash tested, doubt it had cross bars). But most of this failings is prolly the way they designed cars in the late 80's (Remember they started selling it 1989).
For me, the pros outweighted the cons for that era.
Tall cabin w/ significant cab forward design (note the front quarter windows)
Double sliding doors (a 1st)
Sliding door roll down windows (a 1st)
Large tilt glass sunroof
Independent suspensions (a 1st in a van, sort of mixed blessing)
2nd row seat that tumbles forward level with rear cargo
Very good fuel economy and manueverability, specially for the interior volume it offered
Available AWD
Available 3rd row of seats (rather useless but a germ of an idea).
Loved the false rear cargo bottom for the spare tire! Stashed a lot in there too: snow shovel, blanket, sand, air pump, pressurized tire sealant, jump cables, front bulbs, oil and extra windshield washer and blades. I don't carry that much now even with a van.
If you still go with it odman, test drive at 70+mph. Mine developed the shakes so bad passengers could see my hand move (warning! it shook less on wet road). Fix was a stabilizer bushing replacement. The independent suspension seem to cause the skittishness. Some CRV owners I know had the same problem with above normal tire wear as the Axxess. Also check to see if the exhaust manifold is cracked.
I think Honda could bring over the Jazz to the North American market with only the changes I suggested. After all, the Jazz has to crash-tested and certififed on the European New Car Assessment Program (NCAP), which includes an offset barrier crash just as severe as the one done by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS).
Given the relatively high price of gasoline nowadays and the increasing revolt against large minivans and SUV's lately, the Jazz maybe just the vehicle a lot of people want.
I guess we shouldn't expect to see the Jazz/Fit on the streets here anytime soon. Too bad, it would have been a great youth market car.
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwirj11_20020911.htm
I believe the reason why the Jazz will likely arrive in the US market in the next 18 months is the fact that Toyota has done well with the Echo model (which is based on the Yaris hatchback sold in Japan and Europe), the fact that Nissan plans to bring over the Micra model to the US market as a 2004 model and the fact the Jazz does well in the European NCAP crash tests.
The North American version will likely sport the 1.4-liter L4 DSi engine rated at 100 bhp with A/C standard and your choice of five-speed manual or CVT automatic transmissions. Given the big backlash against SUV's and minivans lately and the fact that small station wagons and hatchbacks are back in vogue I think Honda will sell quite a lot of Jazz cars in the USA.
I don't know that Toyota has done all that well with the ECHO model, given its relatively low sales and rumors that it will be axed after the 2004 model year. Maybe Toyota would have sold more had they brought over the hatch version (i.e. Yaris), which has more utility and IMO looks a lot better. In addition to the reasons you mentioned, I think the Fit/Jazz is a response to Toyota's new Scion division and to Hyundai/Kia.
Canada gets the Yaris (=Echo hatchback).
http://www2.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/wa/vp?vp=Home&am- p;language=english&feature=Echohatchback
Maybe Honda Canada will see the arrival of the Echo hatch (as well as a bunch of Daewoo junk soon to hit Chevy and Pontiac dealers) as reason to bring the Jazz/Fit to us.
Also, if anyone wants to start up an new Toyota Echo Hatch discussion in Hatchbacks, feel free to do so. Look for the "Add Discussion" button on the upper/right side the Hatchback's board.
Happy motoring!
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
cars from Suzuki and Chevy, none-the-less. The Mazda Sport Crossover?(Mazda2 in disguise) also looked interesting. With the Smart cars on the horizon for North America and hopefully a Jazz too (are you listening, Honda?), maybe there's hope for us yet.
I personally would rather see the Jazz than the Civic 5 door, but with Toyota bringing a deriviative of the Echo sedan over, Honda might go for the bigger size of the Civic HB. What do you think?
The Civic 5-door looks good and is versatile, but a Jazz would be more affordable. In Germany it starts at 12,500 euros, compared to 14,500 euros for the Civic (the euro is close in value to the US$). The Jazz would be more competitive against Korean small cars, and I think youth buyers would find it more attractive than the Scion Xa.
We may see the Jazz shown as a US model for the first time probably at the next Detroit International Auto Show in January 2004 to be sold as a four-door hatchback (hatchbacks are making a big comeback lately). The car will use a 1.5-liter I-4 i-DSI engine rated at 95-100 bhp (up from the 1.4-liter version sold in Europe rated at 83 bhp), with your choice of five-speed manual or CVT with "manualmatic" mode with seven forward "ratios."