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Hyundai Santa Fe vs Toyota RAV4 vs Mazda CX-7 vs Ford Edge

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Comments

  • philmophilmo Posts: 77
    I finally took a peek at an Edge in the dealership -- which had 6 to 8 of them on the lot. Based on observation alone and not willing to go on a test drive after a visual inspection I'd have to pick the Santa Fe if I had to choose today. Some concerns...

    -Rear seat folds almost flat. "Almost" translates into torture in the middle of the night when camping.

    -Looking forward from the rear bumper with the rear seat folded down it is apparent that the gear shifter is crooked. That just cannot be good. In other words, when all the way forward it moves slightly to the left toward the driver. When moved rearward it lists toward the passenger.

    -The lower door panels are made of some very flimsy plastic sure to be busted up when getting out while wearing hiking, boarding or fishing boots.

    -The carpeting on the rear seat back was already severely worn, worse than my rent-controlled apartment in Santa Monica in the 80s.

    Not all bad, some good...

    -The engine compartment was interesting in terms of access and layout.

    -The rear hatch is among the widest in class.

    -Laptop storage in the center console.

    Still, I'm happy to be patient to see what 2008 brings. There an interesting review today in the New York Times on the Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia.
  • I am not that impressed with the Edge for right at $30,000. I am also having mixed feelings about $28500 for a 4 cylinder turbo that essenitally has the seating of a car, al a Mazda CX-7. And I can't wrap my mind around buying a Hyundai for $26000, with the stigma associated with that brand.
    Yesterday I went to the local GMC dealership and they only had one Acadia for around $34000, now that is a little bit more than what we are talking about here and one will have to wait until they are begging to give them away, but I am getting a lot more car for my money. I might even be tempted to look at a Lexus RX since those are plentiful on the lots, and there might be some good deals to be had. Although I am not sure about buying that kind of vehicle due to the snob factor involved. Everyone always thinks you pay more for that kind of vehicle then you do. Perfect example, my buddy likes to buy larger than needed pickups, like a Chevy 2500, stickering close to $50,000, but at the slightest mention of me buying a Lexus he thinks I am Mr. Big Bucks.
  • maximafanmaximafan Posts: 592
    Hey, Parker, I get that same silly roll of the
    eyes or the sing-song voice of, "Ooh, she got a Lexus!" Well, I say Phooey to them. It's a
    great car and I've had no problems in 7 months and 10,000 miles. And, yes, there are some
    good deals on the RX, particularly on leases.
  • vbbuiltvbbuilt Posts: 498
    "I went to the local GMC dealership and they only had one Acadia"

    Just be sure to get Extended Warranty if you choose GMC. By all accounts, GMC is at the bottom of the stack in terms of reliability. American car manufacturers, as a group, are really poor in quality.

    Vince.
  • Yeah, I think I will have to check out the RX. All these vehicles are getting closely priced, at least to me. A few thousand either way at $30,000 means little to me. I will miss the back seat once in a while, but if I want to carry a lot of people I have an Armada.
    As far as GMC's reliablity, I know very little about it, however, I do remember all the problems they had with the Envoy and the cracked engine block, that it and many of its similarly equipped vehicles shared.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I wouldn't say "by all accounts."

    J.D. Power’s New IQS: The Rest of the Story (GM FastLane Blog)

    If you don't like JD Power surveys, here's a great one you can fill out:

    Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2007
  • Well I guess not by all accounts, but I give very little weight to JD power. They poll people that aren't necessarily car saavy. Just like my sister, who can't tell the difference between the smoothness of a V6 versus a 4, or can't hear a squeak in a car to save her soul, because her radio is blasting. However, she got the survey, sent it in, loves her car.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I give very little weight to JD power. They poll people that aren't necessarily car savvy.

    I didn't realize you had to be car savvy to fill out a survey...does that mean that the folks who fill out the Consumer reports survey are more or less savvy than the people who fill out the JDP surveys? Just wondering which survey we should believe, since only car savvy people can properly fill out the survey.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    The Envoy never had a cracked engine block issue. When they first came out in the spring of 2001 they had gotten a batch of bad front suspension parts (1 part was bad) and they replaced them all on the Envoy's, Trailblazer's and Bravada's. I have had my Envoy since July of 2001 and it has had no major issues. A few minor ones, but not a lot of them. For me, the Envoy has been a great vehicle. I would have no hesitation at all to buy the Acadia or the Enclave. No Saturn dealer close to me so Outlook is not an option.
  • You don't have to be car savvy to fill out the survey, but it will definetly influence the results. And yes that goes for the consumer reports surveys as well.
    Heck people have a hard enough time in this country punching a ballot correctly, even if they have a 50/50 of getting it right. Furthermore, how else can you explain things like Sanjaya on American Idol.
  • Your right not a cracked block, but a cracked cylinder issue.
    GM did issue a "campaign" notice -- not a recall -- covering the 4.2-liter engine in a specific group of 2002 TrailBlazers, Envoys and Bravadas. It's bulletin No. 03019 dated June 2003, and it addresses the issue of cracked cylinder liners. Symptoms can include noise, poor performance, stalling and/or no engine restart

    GM stepped up to the plate though and extended the warranty on the engine to 100,000 miles.

    http://www.startribune.com/435/story/631692.html
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I stand corrected. I guess mine had no problem as I never got such a notice.
  • good that you didn't! :)
  • defreitasmdefreitasm Posts: 152
    "Would anyone else agree that the Mazdas should now be considered the "girlie" Cabriolet of Crossovers?"

    Yes it's a girlie car...that's it!!! Most of us male CX7 owners have been trying to keep it hidden from the public but I'll admit it! I'm a girlie man driving a girlie car! My only regret is that that didn't have one in Mary Kay pink, but if I sell enough cosmetics maybe Mary Kay will special order one for me.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,747
    came close to renting an 'edge' today. enterprise wouldn't let it go for a day. got a free taurus instead. :cry:
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    I am in a process of getting new small-medium SUV. I drive 2 generations of Camrys. The new one came out with smaller trunk and no folding seats anymore, so I have to look at crossover SUV for more cargo space.

    RAV4
    Test drove RAV4. Very nice overall, but ugly back door opens to the wrong side. Hard to believe that Toyota which makes such refined cars refused to customize the door for American market. I frequently have to unload car on the curb so for me it's a huge negative factor, so for most people in urban areas.

    Mazda CX7
    CX7 uses premium gasoline and looks too squeezed and tight. So I am not even considering it. I do like the look of CX9, but it's a different price category.

    Murano
    Murano is nice but overpriced by about $7k vs. SF, RAV and Outlander.

    Santa Fe
    I have to test dive Santa Fe. Looks nice outside and especially inside according to pictures. It appears to be very well designed overall. It looks like this company made huge improvements lately, but I still have reservations about brand name – I wish they rebrand it.

    Outlander
    Test drove Outlander and, with exception of interior, which is probably not as great as Santa Fe, have to say that this crossover appears to me as the best value and the best car in this category. I was quoted by local dealer $22500 incl. destination for top of the line XLS. For this money you get standard: nice V6, 6 speed transmission sportronic with paddle shifters, bluetooth, 6 disk MP3 changer, ABS with power assist, all the airbags, active skid control, stability control, tire pressure monitor, climate control, leather wrapped steering wheel, unique flap folding tail gate, rear LED lamps, fog lights, tiny 3rd row seat, silver roof rails, keyless start, Fast Key!, odorless interior, 18" tires, 5/10 year warranty/roadside assistance… Besides everything it’s just best looking in this category and to me it looks better even then BMW X3 and Lexus.

    Available optional: Navigation, Sirius radio, Xenon headlamps, premium Rockford stereo with 30gb mp3 hard drive, leather, 4WD, sunroof, heated seats.

    Spear tire cleverly located outside under the trunk (see rear view pict.), which in addition to the aluminum roof make center of gravity low. Great crossover. Great handling, fun to drive. It currently outsells RAV4 in Japan 3 to 1.

    image

    image
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I hate to tell you but Hyundai's brand recognition in the US is much higher when compared to Mitsu. There is no reason to re-brand it, the SF has always been a good seller for Hyundai, and it still is.

    The Outlander is a good crossover but Santa Fe is just better in terms of...well, a lot areas. I spent behind the wheels of both CUVs for close to a month worth and found the Santa Fe to be the much better of the two. Oh suggestion to Mistu, please do-away with the third row. Thank you.

    The dealer offered you $22K for a loaded Outlander? Holy crap they are that desperate trying to get a sale? Speak volume about the dealer and where Mitsu stands in the US. The MSRP for the Outlander base starts just under 22K....geesh
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    I hate to tell you but Hyundai's brand recognition in the US is much higher when compared to Mitsu.

    That's a little surprising since Mitsubishi has been selling in the States a lot longer.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    I hate to tell you but Hyundai's brand recognition in the US is much higher when compared to Mitsu.

    Mitsu is old school brand. They have been winning Paris Dakkar rallies for years and the car is made in Japan.


    The Outlander is a good crossover but Santa Fe is just better in terms of...well, a lot areas. I spent behind the wheels of both CUVs for close to a month worth and found the Santa Fe to be the much better of the two.

    Santa Fe is a great car as it seems, I still have to test drive it, but does come with Fast Key or Paddle Shifters or Xenon/LED lights or 30 GB MP3 stereo or Navigation?

    Oh suggestion to Mistu, please do-away with the third row. Thank you.

    I don't need the third row but it's just there. It's tiny and obviosly it's a marketing gimmik.


    The dealer offered you $22K for a loaded Outlander? The MSRP for the Outlander base starts just under 22K

    22.5K. Apparantly they have special dealer incentive program, so MSPR does not tell us enough. Mitsu is a huge compay so they can afford to offer such great deals.
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    The Outlander is a good crossover but Santa Fe is just better in terms of...well, a lot areas. I spent behind the wheels of both CUVs for close to a month worth and found the Santa Fe to be the much better of the two.

    Santa Fe is a great car as it seems, I still have to test drive it, but does it come with Fast Key, or Paddle Shifters, or Xenon/LED lights, or 30 GB MP3 stereo, or Navigation, or Bluetooth???
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    And the Santa Fe is made in the US - I don't understand the relevance stating the Outlander is made in Japan (??)

    Don't get me wrong, the Outlander is a good CUV. Both look pretty good on paper but in real-life, the Santa Fe is just better. The product (SF) speaks for itself, although some additional tech features would have made it even better.

    The state of Mitsu in the US maybe finally getting back on its feet (e.g. good product of Outlander and Lancer) after almost pulling out of the US (remember the 0% interest debacle, for example?). By the way, the Outlander version you speak of is MSRP for around 30K (depending on configuration of options). If the 22.5K offer was true, then I hate to say it, that was a desperation way to get a sale. A good product does not require more than $7.5K of incentives, eclipsing 25%.

    If you consider Mitsu to be a huge company, then where does Hyundai place on the scale? Seventh in the US, sixth in the world, is that enough to be called gigantic? ;)

    Back to Santa Fe vs. RAV4 vs. CX-7 vs. Edge :)
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    And the Santa Fe is made in the US - I don't understand the relevance stating the Outlander is made in Japan ??

    Joe, Japaneeze made goods are usually high quality. That's the relevance.

    Don't get me wrong, the Outlander is a good CUV. Both look pretty good on paper but in real-life, the Santa Fe is just better.

    This is just your general statement with no facts. Don't get me wrong SF is good CUV. I would say SF has better interior, and Outlander has better looking exterior. Both have great ride, handling, and warranty but feature-wise Outlander easily beats SF: Fast Key, Paddle Shifters, Xenon/LED lights, 30 GB MP3 stereo, Navigation, Bluetooth. These gadgets are not on paper - they are in real world Outlander I drove yesterday, but they are not available as standard or as option in SF.


    By the way, the Outlander version you speak of is MSRP for around 30K (depending on configuration of options). If the 22.5K offer was true, then I hate to say it, that was a desperation way to get a sale. A good product does not require more than $7.5K of incentives, eclipsing 25%.

    Nope. 22,5K offer, as I’ve said, was for the top of the line XLS model (2WD) with no exra options and it’s MSPR including destination is only $24,275. So please don’t invent 30K number.


    If you consider Mitsu to be a huge company, then where does Hyundai place on the scale? Seventh in the US, sixth in the world, is that enough to be called gigantic?

    Nope, not even close. Hyundai is tiny compare to big boys. Size of the company is usually measured not in number of bikes sold, but in market capitalization. Check out market capitalization in Billions of US dollars:
    Toyota 228
    Mitsubishi 125
    Honda 65
    Nissan 49
    Hyundai 15

    Lousy 15 billions...



    Back to Santa Fe vs. RAV4 vs. CX-7 vs. Edge

    Yea, Joe, now back to Santa Fe vs. RAV4 vs. CX-7 vs. Edge :-)
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Joe, Japaneeze made goods are usually high quality. That's the relevance.

    So are you telling me all of the Toyotas, for example, built in the US are inferior than those built in Japan?

    This is just your general statement with no facts.

    Features do not make the car better. That was the point I made.

    Nope. 22,5K offer, as I’ve said, was for the top of the line XLS model (2WD) with no exra options and it’s MSPR including destination is only $24,275. So please don’t invent 30K number.

    You weren't exactly clear in your original post regarding whether or not options were included - you posted everything, including optional features and the whole nine yards, no offense but it sounded to me like it was a sales pitch.

    And as for Mitsu's operation in the US, it has not been a successful one, especially the past decade or so. It has not captured its market capitalization nor has it grabbed additional shares here in the stateside.
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    So are you telling me all of the Toyotas, for example, built in the US are inferior than those built in Japan?

    Yes, Joe, I am telling you that. Partially for that reason Toyota keeps production of Lexus in Japan. Partially for that reason Mitsibishi was not doing well in US while being part of Chrysler and while building cars in Illinois.


    Features do not make the car better. That was the point I made.

    Of course they do. It’s just today features are not in Santa Fe’s favor.
    Speaking of features, I love that Fast Key in Outlander. I just touch a door handle with a finger and the door unlocks, while my key is in my pocket. Then I start a car with a knob and my key is still in my pocket. And I will never lock myself out. When I have my key and I step away form the car for 10 feet it locks automatically. That’s just one cool feature. You can get it as option in $32,000 Murano, but it’s standard in Outlander XLS for under 23K!



    You weren't exactly clear in your original post regarding whether or not options were included - you posted everything, including optional features and the whole nine yards, no offense but it sounded to me like it was a sales pitch.

    It’s offence, Joe, cose you are not honest. Actually I was very clear: That’s what I’ve said standard and what's optional:
    "I was quoted by local dealer $22500 incl. destination for top of the line XLS. For this money you get standard: nice V6, 6 speed transmission sportronic with paddle shifters, bluetooth, 6 disk MP3 changer, ABS with power assist, all the airbags, active skid control, stability control, tire pressure monitor, climate control, leather wrapped steering wheel, unique flap folding tail gate, rear LED lamps, fog lights, tiny 3rd row seat, silver roof rails, keyless start, Fast Key, odorless interior, 18" tires, 5/10 year warranty/roadside assistance… Besides everything it’s just best looking in this category and to me it looks better even then BMW X3 and Lexus.
    Available optional: Navigation, Sirius radio, Xenon headlamps, premium Rockford stereo with 30gb mp3 hard drive, leather, 4WD, sunroof, heated seats."



    And as for Mitsu's operation in the US, it has not been a successful one, especially the past decade or so. It has not captured its market capitalization nor has it grabbed additional shares here in the stateside.

    Sure, selling part of the company to Chrysler and building cars in cornfields of Illinois was not their best move for american market share. However, speaking of brand, Mitsu was the company who introduced the Model A, Japan's first series-production automobile back in 1917.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    First of all, please stop bolding everything you post.

    Yes, Joe, I am telling you that. Partially for that reason Toyota keeps production of Lexus in Japan. Partially for that reason Mitsibishi was not doing well in US while being part of Chrysler and while building cars in Illinois.

    Unless you have hard data to back up, you're simply making sweeping generalizations.

    Of course they do. It’s just today features are not in Santa Fe’s favor.

    And those should not be deal killers. Perhaps Hyundai did not feel it was cost-beneficial to add navigation units, for example. Take note it is offered in other markets, so I imagine it would not be too difficult for Hyundai to implement them into the US market. Maybe it makes sense for the voided item since less than 8% of total buyers opt for the navigation units, for example. The fact of matter is, the Santa Fe is a great CUV, with or without some of the omitted tech features. It sells very well because of such.

    It’s offence, Joe, cose you are not honest. Actually I was very clear: That’s what I’ve said standard and what's optional:

    Offence you say? If you were to tell us a quote you received, what was the point listing the items that are not part of the vehicle? Do you work for Mitsu or something?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    cose you are not honest

    I don't think you meant to say that. A simple "I doubt it" would have sufficed.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    So are you telling me all of the Toyotas, for example, built in the US are inferior than those built in Japan? Yes, Joe, I am telling you that

    I'm sure many of us would like to see the facts behind your statement....where can we find it?
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634

    > First of all, please stop bolding everything you post.


    All right, as friendly gesture


    > Unless you have hard data to back up, you're simply making sweeping generalizations.

    I wish in your previous posts you would provide some “hard data” to support your view on SF vs. Highlander, but you didn’t. You just made “sweeping generalizations” in regards to SF, but now you demand “hard data” from me. Japanese cars take market share away from American cars. That’s hard data. Check out JDPower ratings and you will find that Japanese cars generally have better quality/reliability. That’s hard data. Would you argue otherwise: would you say American cars generally have better quality/reliability? There are certain “sweeping generalizations” could be made without “hard data”: Swiss watches are better, then American, French wine is generaly better then American, though there is some good Californian wine. As for Toyota’s sold in US - they are only partialy Japanese. A lot of parts on this US made Toyotas made by the same vendors, who supply Ford and Chrysler. As result we hear lately about all these recalls issued by Toyota. That’s hard data. Have you heard about that many recalls for Lexus? Toyota builds Camry in US, in China and in Japan. Which one would you pick, if you have a choice of three and why? (hard data, please)



    > If you were to tell us a quote you received, what was the point listing the items that are not part of the vehicle?

    That’s hard data for your education. It seems at times you want to avoid hard data. I honestly listed standard features included in that quote. Then I honestly list optional features. Nothing unusual: people talk about standard and optional features all the time, but it happens to be inconvenient hard data for some, too hard to handle, since they realize they get less car for more money.

    > Do you work for Mitsu or something?

    Oh, so are you saying that any poster, who lists optional features, works for that car manufacturer? You simply don’t like the fact, that some Outlander’s features available as standard or as option, while on Santa Fe they are not available at all.
  • piastpiast Posts: 269
    We have same discussion few months back, just check it out.
    In the end, those who liked Santa Fe more, didn't change their mind, same for the Outlander. Reason is - both cars are good value, nice designs, good quality, good warranty, etc. The difference is in character: Hyundai is a bit bigger, softer cruiser, while Mitsubishi has more features, better fuel economy, performance and sporty handling. You just can't beat eight times in a row Paris-Dakar Rally winner, with global recognition of true off-road performance and durability. Globally Mitsubishi is respected as much as Toyota and Nissan are. In the other hand while Hyundai is not there yet, it is not that far behind any more either. And such good products as Santa Fe, Sonata or Azera can only help. Few years back Hyundai was only cheap cars maker (with Mitsubishi's licensed powertrains), and look at them now: they are talking about future luxury car market attempt with their Genesis concept.

    As far as I know (from this forum) people are paying 4.5K to 5K off MSRP for Santa Fe and invoice For Outlander (1.5k-2K off MSRP), so you right "A good product does not require more than $7.5K of incentives". And yes, bad reputation of Mitsubishi in this country is strictly associated with Chrysler sourced transmissions in some of their products assembled in Normal, Illinois in the 80'. Of course we all know how good Excel used to be back then too...
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I spent a month on the Santa Fe and Outlander, is that enough for you? It was never a generalization - all I said from the start, after spending a considerable amount of time in both vehicles, while both fantastic, I felt the SF was a better overall vehicle. Both excel at certain areas, and comprised in others. My opinion based on in-depth testings.

    You, on the other hand, made a sweeping generalization b/c you perceived everything coming out of Japan is automatically superior than those from other parts of the world.
This discussion has been closed.