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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    We are well aware that the 2nd gen 3.3 is going to put out more HP than the current 3.8, but you're asking it to haul around a car that will weigh more than the Azera. Wouldn't it sorta be like putting a higher output version of the 2.4 IL-4 that's currently in the Sonata, into the Azera??? I believe that the Genesis would be the first Hyundai offering a choice of 3 engines.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    100 lbs heavier. The reports coming out of the S. Korea has the BH330 running fine with the weight. Also, the Azera GLS (with the 3.3L first gen) is pulling the heavier Azera (vs. the Sonata) alright.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Having the 3.3 is not because Hyundai couldn't put out the base 3.8L for under 30K, that has nothing to do with it.

    I would like to see some real fact about that statement.

    IMO is not going to cut it.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Yes...the 3.3 is pulling the heavier Azera, but then again...there hasn't been any posters that own the GLS model to find out if they are pleased with it.

    I'm not saying the 3.3 isn't capable of pulling the car, the question is...how hard will it work to do it...compared to the 3.8.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Of course it'll be running fine with the 3.3, if the 5-series is running fine on 230hp and the Charge is running fine on the sub-200hp V6 then I don't see why the 3.3 wouldn't be running "fine" for the Genesis.

    If the problem isn't price and given that the 3.8 and 3.3 will return similar FE, why Hyundai opt the 3.3 as the base engine.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Personally...I say do like Mopar did with the V-6 they have in the Charger. For the Base model Genesis, put the 3.8 with the same output as the Azera. For the mid level Genesis, use the same 3.8, but maybe tune it to 300 hp. Then of course...you have the V-8. Just my opinion.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    this is all marketing, anyway, there is no logical reason that the larger 3.8 would cost anymore than the 3.3 in any case. Not only should the FE be very similar but so should the manufacturing cost of the engines themselves. It only costs more because people are willing to pay for HP. I would imagine that the V8 model would cost a bit more to manufacture, the different V6 models probably not - just a few extra grand in the mfgrs.pocket. There may come a time (soon) when the premium trims of cars are the ones with the most economical & efficient engines - not necessarily the most powerful. Whatever sells!
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    You are over-analyzing this. Your whole basis and focus is Hyundai promised the Genesis would come in under 30K for the base trim, and you speculated the 3.8 would be the base engine, but when the 3.3 engine was revealed as the base engine, you further speculated the logic is they couldn't put out the 3.8 for under 30 but 3.3 is there just to keep the promise.

    The difference in cost to build a 3.3 and a 3.8 is marginal.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    And isn't the difference in cost to build a Camry vs a Sonata or an Avalon vs an Azera marginal?

    It is in the marketing and supply & demand, regardless of how informed the buying market may be. (That's why I think Hyundai buyers are ahead of the curve.)
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 4551
    Mike
    I do believe that your pricing is incorrect.
    The MSRP of the Azera is considerably higher than the numbers that you report.
    The fact that the dealers are discounting the price so much as well as the rebates given by Hyundai indicate that sales are not as projected.
    When a model is successful, the huge discounts and rebates do not appear.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE:4574
    It is hard for me to believe that Hyundai will market the same model with 3 engine choices.
    It would cost the dealerships fortunes to floor plan all of the possible variations.
    Most are having difficult times holding their heads above water with less inventory.
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    re. 4583: "The fact that the dealers are discounting the price so much as well as the rebates given by Hyundai indicate that sales are not as projected".

    Makes you wonder how can they do that, and stay in business. Personally, I view their combined desperation as a gift.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE:4585
    Rightly so, although manufacturers hate to give such gifts. As do their stockholders.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,712
    " just don't see a lot of overlap between the two"

    I don't see how you don't. They are both in similar pricing categories, both large, and share 2 engines. My main point is that if Azera and Veracruz sales are slow, what makes Hyundai think they can sell the Genesis? At the rumored pricing it seems to be a steal (to the right person) and will most likely just take sales from the Azera. IMO just drop the Azera and move forward with the Genesis.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    The rebates were next to nothing. The MSRP on my Azera w/Premium Package in Feb. '06 was just over $28K. When I walked in the dealership and asked them to make me a deal, they wrote up and offer sheet and the guy slid it to me...it said $26,081...this was BEFORE any rebates and loyalty cash was thrown in. Essentially, by the time I was done...I got $1000 cash back for the promotion they were running, I got another $1000 cash back for the Hyundai Loyalty rebate, then they gave me $5000 for my trade in.

    So...no, my pricing is not incorrect.

    The Azera w/Ultimate Package ran $1500 more, so that still kept it under the $30K mark.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Well, Bob...as hard as it is for you to believe...it's happening. Hyundai isn't the first to do this, even still...it doesn't make any sense.

    I don't think there's much of a change that takes place between the 3.3 and the 3.8. They've probably found a away to keep the connections between the engine and the tranny the same. The only difference maybe the gearing...MAYBE.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    It is in the marketing and supply & demand, regardless of how informed the buying market may be. (That's why I think Hyundai buyers are ahead of the curve.)
    One of the biggest stretches I've about ever heard. If this were true than Hyundai wouldn't sell a car because both the Accord and the Avalon are less expensive (and generally higher rated) vehicles than Sonatas and Azeras, at least if you are going to believe 'Cost-to-own' stats etc. Yeah, it's all about supply and demand - and the Avalon outsells the Azera about 3 to 1, the Accord grossly outsells the Sonata and by your reckoning then all 400,000 of them are uninformed? Or that those folks that spend the extra money on those great German cars must, therefore, be stupid. Ludricrous.
    If what makes the Hyundai buyer 'informed' is that the cars are relatively cheap (initially) it definitely doesn't take a PhD to figure that one one out - just an ability to read! The 'informed' buyer is the one that is NOT necessarily swayed by cheap prices, large discounts, and/or mostly worthless warranties - that 'informed' buyer takes ALL these kind of things into account and then puts it ALL together with several other things and will generally buy what really costs him/her the least amount of money to drive over some defineable period of time while at the same making some concession to what he/she WANTS to drive. Don't have an idea about what 'curve' you are speaking - but nonsense - the opposite is more likely true!!!
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Then I guess your proposition is to move the Genesis upmarket in pricing ;)

    Drivetrain aside, I see the Azera and Genesis overlapping as much as Sonata and Azera, Camry and Avalon, ES and GS, etc etc The Genesis starts at the upper trim of the Azera, and as it should be (similarly for the rest of the lineup - Accent/Elantra, Elantra/Sonata, Sonata/Azera, Tuscon/Santa Fe, Santa Fe/Veracruz)
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 4589
    Mike
    I have yet to see any specifications published by Hyundai that lists engine options for US model of Genesis.
    I believe that much of this information is speculation by persons, like us, participating in forums or media.
    I have seen different forums showing various pictures all claiming that they depict the final US production version.
    I guess that we will know when Hyundai makes the official formal introduction.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    Actually, Hyundai has released the horsepower specs. The link below will take you to a blog article followed by the official Hyundai press release.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/08/detroit-08-preview-2009-hyundai-genesis-shake- s-things-up/
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