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Luxury Lounge

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  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Here's the link...

    link title

    There is a video as well.

    I don't understand the match here between the V6 Lexus and the V8 Genesis. I would think the V8 Lexus would have been a better choice.

    Well, I'm quite sure we can look forward to more comps between the Genesis other much more expensive luxury cars...

    I"m still a Genesis believer, as I have always been from the very beginning.

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I am a believer now but I don't get this comparo...

    some observations from the video:

    GS has better exterior
    GS has better interior
    GS has better acceleration
    GS has better brakes
    GS has better fuel economy
    GS has lexus nameplate

    Genesis Wins? image
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The Hyundai Genesis is without a question one of the most high profile new cars, if not the highest, of the year. Before even getting a chance to drive it and reading the reviews I was positive that this car will bring the Hyundai brand to a different level but I still had doubts in my mind. When the positive reviews starting to come in I was convinced that this car is good, very good as matter of fact, but I was still not a “believer”. However, that had all been changed after my test drive today and all I can say is WOW!! This car is so good that in my opinion it deserves nothing short of its own brand, own badge and own dealership network. Followings are my impressions about the car.

    Exterior: Sleek, inoffensive, and simple. It’s not difficult for one to realize that Hyundai had incorporated a lot of elements from the competing brands such as Lexus, BMW and Infiniti when designing the Genesis but overall it looks very well executed. The paint job is top notch with minimal orange peels and all the panels lined up nicely with minimal and luxury car standard gaps. I still do not like the “Klingon grille” and would prefer the optional 18” wheel to come without the chrome-like finish but those are just nit-picking to be perfectly honest.

    Interior: This is really where this car shines, the materials used and fit-and-finish is all top notch and the center stack ergonomics is excellent in my opinion. The navigation system that comes with the tech package is very user friendly and the interface response time is fast. Personally I still prefer touch-screen over the knob/joystick type of setup but the one in the Genesis is definitely something I can live with. I was pleasantly surprised that the majority of the interior surfaces are rubberized thus provide a high quality, soft-touch feels. The only part that felt cheap is the top of the center console which is covered with hard plastic material. The biggest complaint I have about the car is the seats. First of all the leather quality isn’t really up to the luxury car standard and the seats are way too soft with a “spongy” and “bouncy” kind of feel. Also, the front seats are very flat, lacking both the side bolster and thigh support.

    Driving: Overall the car felt confident with a balance ride quality between comfort and performance. It is no BMW in terms of road feel and handling but it can certainly hold it own against its major competitors. The steering weight is on the heavy side and that is good for this car. The only time that the weakness of the chassis shows is when the car is getting pushed to the limitation, for example, during high speed turns. Under those conditions the steering becomes very light and the road feel becomes vague. In my opinion this is the only time that one will be able to tell why its luxury brand competitors like the 5er, E-class and GS cost at least $10k more. However, for 95% of the drivers the Genesis will serve them just as good as its more expensive foes.

    Bottom Line: Again, WOW!! I am sold. Hyundai is coming, Toyota and Lexus, you better watch out. If I am in the market for a large sedan there is no doubt in my mind that this will be the car. Period.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,302
    No problem, Tony.

    My wife will start to drive around "the twelfth of Never....and that's a long, long time."..... IOW, It will never happen.

    I thought it over long and hard. I don't want to go back to BMW. Their customer service is far from the "luxury treatment" I expected. What a bunch of characters!

    I looked at BMW station wagons last year, before I swore off BMW, and just as with their SUV's, found both the 3 and 5 Series Wagons to be ridiculously impractical. Not much room for real-life stuff! My current vehicle has lots more room than any BMW wagon. I fit my 68" bike inside. Can't do that in the BMW wagons or X5 or X3! BMW just doesn't "get it." What would one expect from a company that sees a need for a totally useless vehicle like the X6!

    Sorry to hear about the rear window, Tony. Too bad it wasn't the front windshield. In Florida, we have free windshield replacements as part of our insurance. Not bad. Add that to the "stern warning" perks instead of summons, as another reason to live there. ;)

    There will be many more hybrid choices next year at this time. I wouldn't be surprised if Honda comes out with its own version of the Prius, firing a direct shot Toyota's way. That one might be worth waiting for!

    Nice talking to you Tony! ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I guess their (Edmunds) point is that the Lexus only provides a marginal improvement over the Lexus that isn't worth the Lexus' massive increase in price... IOW, it's not worth it to buy the Lexus compared to the Genesis!!

    Isn't that the same point that the Lexus guys were making for many, many years when comparing the Lexus to the German counterparts?... essentially that the Lexus may not have been quite as good in the performance or styling departments compared to the German cars, but it's "value" couldn't be ignored?

    Well... now Lexus gets a taste of its own medicine... the Korean "value" can't be ignored this time around. :surprise:

    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks, Lou for providing what I believe is this forum's first hands-on test drive and review of the Genesis.

    First or not, you did a good job! Thanks again.

    And, I'm glad to see that you are now a believer in the Genesis! :)

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Can you explain to me why Audi needs an RS* brand? I thought the S* were capable by themselves.... And I like NA engines over turbo- or super-charged...

    I can tell you first hand that the S cars are indeed quite capable. Audi does things a little differently than BMW and Mercedes. Traditionally, the S cars have been slightly above the level of the top BMW or MB offering in their class, but below the M and AMG versions, as with the S6 vs. the 550i and E550.

    Audi's own in-house tuner is Quattro GmbH, who makes the RS cars. They generally cost more than a comparable M or AMG, but they are also much rarer, and even more powerful. You would never see a Q7-RS, for example, whereas AMG will slap their badge on pretty much anything.

    With the A5 3.2 falling behind the 335i, the V8 S5 can really only match the BMW, rather than exceed it. Audi's upcoming 3.0T engine should correct this imbalance. The '10 A4 3.0T will compete directly with the 335i, the S4 will be better, but not as good as the M3, and the 425+hp RS4 will be better than the M3.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    LG,
    I appreciate that explanation and I am concerned that your reference to AMG might be misunderstood. While AMG variants are indeed available on almost the entire Mercedes lineup, they are still hand built engines, individually, each by one of a select number of specialists. If you've ever seen the video on the assembly and testing of each of the AMG engines, you would be so impressed and amazed. AMG vehicles are deserving of serious respect.

    Now, to BMW... I guess I will just have to wait and see if the 2010 RS4 is any match for the M3. It will take more than HP... it will take a balanced chassis and suspension, and I'm not as confident as you that it will topple the M3. But, if it does, I'll have no problem with it at all, as I will simply add that terrific RS4 to my list of admired cars. :)

    TM
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    LG, I am with Tag on this one. Let us just say I'll like to see the '10 3.0T A4 truly compete with the 335i (who knows if its still gonna be a 335i in MY2010)... but I don't see Audi touching the 3 anytime soon. That TT on the I-6 in the 1-, 3- or 5-er is unbelievable. I mean, 300hp (to the wheel) and 300Ibft of torque? That is sick!!! And the chassis and suspension setup in the 135 and 335 is totally unreal!!! But competition is good for all...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    AMG variants are indeed available on almost the entire Mercedes lineup, they are still hand built engines, individually, each by one of a select number of specialists. If you've ever seen the video on the assembly and testing of each of the AMG engines, you would be so impressed and amazed. AMG vehicles are deserving of serious respect.

    AMG made the R55 and the G55, you just will not see Quattro (or Motorsport) stoop to that level.

    I have nothing bad to say about AMG's engines. The sound of the "6.3" in particular is glorious. It's the cars they are bolted to that's the problem. Until very recently, the AMG variants were basically clumsy muscle cars with undefeatable stability control and far more horsepower than the chassis could handle. See the CL65 stumbling around on the TG test track as an example.

    AMG knows this, which is why they had to create the "Black Series" meaning serious cars with more than just big engines. I give them credit for how incredible the CLK Black is (it humiliates the M6), and I'm sure the SL Black is going to be a monster. I'm just not impressed by the "regular" cars though. As TG showed last season, the C63 despite all its power was no faster than the old RS4, and easily beaten by the M3.

    I have a hunch that the new RS4 is going to be very good. It's going to have more power and loads more torque than the M3, combined with much better balance than its superb predecessor. It may take a CSL to beat the RS4. I'm sure it won't be ready for 2010 though, considering the new A4 has basically just launched. Expect to wait at least another few years.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    That TT on the I-6 in the 1-, 3- or 5-er is unbelievable. I mean, 300hp (to the wheel) and 300Ibft of torque?

    Audi's supercharged 3.0T produces 290hp and 310ft.lbs, so its right up there. The current 265hp/243ft.lbs A4 3.2 is capable of 0-60 in around 5.7, so the new engine should put it within a couple of ticks of the 335i. I'm not trying to say that the A4 is going to out handle the 3, that's not really what Audi does. Will it be able to keep up with the 335i though, yes, with more comfort, more space, and more luxury.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm not trying to say that the A4 is going to out handle the 3, that's not really what Audi does. Will it be able to keep up with the 335i though, yes, with more comfort, more space, and more luxury.

    More comfort, space, and luxury? Heck, LG, a Lexus can do THAT. So, can a Caddy.

    So, why should we applaud Audi for this? They are already known for first-class interiors. I'll look forward to seeing what the A4, S4, and RS4 can do in the handling department.

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I don't understand the match here between the V6 Lexus and the V8 Genesis. I would think the V8 Lexus would have been a better choice.

    I think they chose the 6 because the 460 would've been massively more money than the Hyundai, and in any case, the Genesis couldn't even keep up with the 350! It's nice, but $40K+ is an awful lot of money for a Hyundai. Depreciation is likely to be brutal. I just don't see myself choosing this over say, a CPO XJR for the same (or less) money. A two year old Genesis at say $25K starts to make more sense.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419

    More comfort, space, and luxury? Heck, LG, a Lexus can do THAT. So, can a Caddy.


    The new platform, the rear-biased AWD system, and Audi Drive Select have made the new A4 easily the best handling A4 ever, but it's still Mr. Sensible compared to BMW. If you want a BMW, you buy one, not an Audi clone. Audi buyers choose Audi because for whatever reason they don't want a BMW.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,626
    Ditto. I luv the US luxo believers who dis the Genesis as a cheap example of a desireable alternative that would never earn their $36K!!

    How narrow minded! :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,626
    louiswei, thanks for this extremely well posted review! You know your stuff! I had the feeling Genesis would be great but you convinced me it will be a force to be reckoned with.

    I plan to test drive it soon.

    For wearers of the brand, this will be devastating! For buyers in the know that want affordable luxury, it's a home run!

    Regards,
    OW
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Well, LG, consider that they could have easily comped the Genesis with the Lexus GS V8, or even the Lexus LS. The price difference between the Genesis and the LS is so massive that it boggles the mind. I think that's why they picked the cheaper Lexus GS for the comp. Heck, all those cars achieve 0-60 within a fraction of a second of one another! Bring on the LS! Afterall, the Genesis kicks the GS in the butt in terms of vehicle dimensions and therefore front and rear passenger room and trunk capacity.

    Historically, the Lexus LS has not surpassed the S-Class in similar fashion and terms, yet it was consistently comped and considered a tremendous value!

    I think it is inevitable and appropriate that we will see the Genesis compared to the Lexus LS and even the Mercedes S-Class! The price difference is so staggering that it screams "value" more than the original Lexus LS ever did.

    By all reasonable measurements thus far, the performance parameters of the Genesis are only marginally different than it's competitors, yet it's price is so much lower it is practically incomprehensible.

    The Genesis is clearly the luxury car value of the century!

    I can't wait to see the Genesis comped to the Lexus LS and German counterparts!

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    louiswei, thanks for this extremely well posted review! You know your stuff!

    Someone is getting it...

    :P
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I think it is inevitable and appropriate that we will see the Genesis compared to the Lexus LS and even the Mercedes S-Class!

    Okay, now that is a bit of a stretch...

    During my times in the Genesis there is no way that this car reminded me of luxury flagships like the LS/7er/S. To be perfectly honest the interior quality really isn't up to the GS/5er/E standard yet and probably not even in the same level as some of the entry level luxury sedans. The reason why the Genesis stacks up well against the GS is because that it provides 95% of the car with 75% of the price.

    Everyone can do leather, navi, wood (by the way, Genesis doesn't have real wood) these days but it's really down to the details where the luxury brands shine. Personally if my mind is set to get the GS there is no way that I will settle for the Genesis. However, If I am simply in the market for the best large sedan with the best value and all the toys then Genesis is the only way to go.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    So a Hyundai with trappings and pretensions to luxury - Lexicon audio, heated and cooled seats, V8 with 360+Hp, and sport - with ZF auto tranny, RWD, blah blah blah.... is now the rave here. Sheesh... But I fail to see why this car should make Lexus or BMW or Infiniti have a nightmare. So its cheap luxury. That's what it is. For $40K, I know I can buy plenty of much better refined lux-sport cars out there.

    If you have $40K would you buy:
    a) Hyundai (of any name or make)
    b) BMW
    c) Lexus
    d) Infiniti
    e) Audi

    If you answer (a), then I suggest you find another forum to post at :surprise:

    Hyundai needs a Lux division to make an impact. And not by stretching the chassis of a Hyundai Sonata, slapping on big engines (of suspect output, by Hyundai history) which does 0-60 at a pedestrian <6s blah.... I mean, is that what Hyundai puts out and expects respect??? And please let us not talk about refinement...

    And yes I will check one out and see if what Louiswei says holds true. But for now, count me as a HUGE skeptic of anything from Hyundai. And LG said it right... after the huge depreciation, a CPO Genesis is the screaming value...

    Wasn't the Azeria supposed to put a dent in the Avalon and the other near-luxury mid-size sedan??? Where is the Hyundai Azeria today? Anyone know?
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