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What Keeps You Loyal To A Brand?



  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Do you recall if there was an Electra 430? I would swear that a neighbor of mine had an '85 that said 430 on it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    Now that you mention it, they did offer a Diesel engine in the '85 Electra. It was a 4.3 V-6. It was a chopped version of the Olds 350 Diesel, not to be confused with Chevy's 4.3/262 gas V-6 that was introduced that year, and a chopped version of the Chevy 350.

    So I'm guessing the Diesel Electra might've had a "430" badge on it. Also, I goofed on what Buick called their trim levels in 1985. The actual model names were Electra (base) Electra Park Ave (luxury model) and Electra T-type (sporty model). My Consumer Guide is also showing that the 3.8 was standard. However, here's a link to an old Consumer Reports comparison test that had an Electra, and they say the 3.0 was standard, with the 3.8 being a $260 option.

    The '85 Electra/Ninety-Eight/DeVille had an extra long model year though. I think they were actually introduced in the spring of 1984. So maybe the 3.0 was standard in early models, and then later on in the model year they decided to just make the 3.8 standard?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    So maybe the 3.0 was standard in early models, and then later on in the model year they decided to just make the 3.8 standard?

    I didn't know they had a 3.0. I thought the 2.8l V6 got punched to 3.1l. Did the 98/Park Ave platform go FWD in 85 or was it still RWD for another year?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I didn't know they had a 3.0. I thought the 2.8l V6 got punched to 3.1l. Did the 98/Park Ave platform go FWD in 85 or was it still RWD for another year?

    You can thank GM's divisions still having a lot of their own engines for that confusion. Buick came out with a 3.0 version of their 3.8 V-6, for 1982 I believe. It was used mainly in the Century and Cutlass Ciera. I think the Omega and Skylark X-cars still used Chevy 2.8's. It had a 2-bbl carb, and was rated at 110 hp, interestingly the same as the larger 3.8 2-bbl.

    For 1985, when the Grand Am/Calais/Somerset Regal were introduced, they got a fuel injected version that put out 125 hp. Also, I just looked in another used car book I have, that covers 1977-86, and it does show the 1985 Electra/98 offering the 3.0 2-bbl V-6.

    I think the 3.0 was dropped after 1985 in everything except the Grand Am and its siblings. Centurys and Cieras started phasing in the Chevy 2.8, with a Buick 3.8 being optional.

    The Chevy 2.8 is the one that got enlarged to 3.1, and eventually it started showing up in most of GM's midsized/compact offerings, but I don't think that was until around 1990 or so. Also, Buick tried fielding yet another version of their 3.8. I think it was a 3.3, and offered for a few years in the Century/Ciera, before they all just went to 3.1's.

    And yeah, 1985 was the year that GM downsized their C-bodies. However, Cadillac kept a RWD version around, calling it simply "Brougham".
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Have owned Hyundai Sonatas (1990, 1992, 1995), Nissan Maxima 1997 and two Honda Pilots 2004 and 2006. Our family does 40,000 on each of our vehicles and all of the above were outstanding. The early Sonatas were not as refined as today's Hyundai's but were very reliable and durable. My 1995 Sonata is still in service with 250,000 on it. The 97 Maxima was flawless and fun to drive. The two Honda Pilots have been without issue. The first one was driven 100,000 miles in 2 years and it never saw but oil, fluid, brake and tire changes. Perfect truck. The 2006 already has 30,000 on it and has been perfect.
    I am buying a 2007 Elantra for my daughter. My brother has a 1998 Elantra with 140,000 miles and it has been a perfect car with only one minor repair. No reason to pay $2k more for the smaller Civic if she is going to drive it for 5-7 years and put tons of mileage on it.
    Loyalty? I would have to say that I am very loyal to Honda and Hyundai. Nissan doesn't have a car I want so I'll stick with Hyundai and Honda.
  • mirde98mirde98 Posts: 95
    I've owned two 1985's Honda Civic's, one 94 Hyundai Excel, one 98 Mitsubishi Mirage and i just bought a new Mitsubishi Lancer. I've never had any major problems with any of my vehicles. I owned the Mirage 9yrs and i sold it in perfect conditions. As it for now my first choice is Mitsubishi. 2nd would be Hyundai and 3rd choice would be Honda. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    My dad had an Electra, 1977 IIRC, and loved it so much he cried when he sold it.

    For some reason, in the 80s he got an Olds instead, and then he switched to Fords for a while.

    I think he left GM because he liked the Explorer better than the first 4 door Blazers, which were pieced together a bit much for his tastes.

    He had a bad Taurus and now drives an Outback.

    No loyalty from him! :D
  • rafarafa Posts: 35
    Well let me start bye saying that nissan are great cars for young people because they design cars that we want. I am 26 and my wife is 23 years old and right now in our garage there is a 2005 nissan maxima that she drives and a 2007 nissan titan that i drive we love our cars so much. We have had a 2001 nissan maxima,2004 nissan titan,2005 nissan armada, and now 2005 maxima titan. Will always own japan made. I know what you guys are thinking these cars are usa made which they are assemble here but all the parts come from japan all made in japan. Will never buy american cars from gm ford chrysler because they dont make any cars that we want they make cars for old people and piece of s...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,094
    But what other brands have you owned? And for how long? At 26 years old with 6 nissans under your belt, it doesn't sound like you have formed much of a fair comparison.

    PLUS, seeing as how all 6 have been in the past 6-7 years, you also have owned one long enough to make much of a reliability/longevity judgement.

    I'm not knocking nissan. I think they are good. I'm just saying it seems a bit premature on your part to be so loyal. Kinda like marrying the first girl ya kiss, no? ;b

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I know what you guys are thinking these cars are usa made which they are assemble here but all the parts come from japan all made in japan.

    IIRC, the Nissan Altima is something like 65% domestic content. So in addition to being assembled in the United States, it's a safe bet that a lot of its components were sourced from the US as well.

    The domestics and imports actually share a lot of parts nowadays. GM makes automatic transmissions for BMW. The a/c compressor in my Dodge Intrepid is supposedly the same component as what's in a Honda Accord. My a/c is failing, BTW, so who do I blame? The Japanese or the Americans? Or the Germans, maybe, since Chrysler was under their control by the time my car was made? :P

    I've also heard varying opinions on Nissan quality. Not enough to scare me away from ever buying one, but I'm not going to blindly put them up on a pedestal, either. My Mom & stepdad had a 91 Stanza that was in need of some pretty steep repairs by the 90,000 mile mark. Among them, the tranny and exhaust system. I've personally known a few examples of the 2.4 4-cyl and the 3.0 V-6 from that era that had timing chains fail prematurely and reduce the engine to rubbish. The tranny in my Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima crapped out at 35,000 miles. But to that car's credit, tranny #2, which was put in under warranty, is doing fine and I'm sure that car has about 240,000 miles on it by now.

    And I've heard some people say that these older Nissans were the durable ones, and that the new ones aren't as good! The Titan/Armada was pretty unreliable when it first came out, although they may be improved by now. Still, if you didn't have any problems with those earlier models, count yourself lucky.

    Nissan does have a sort of youth appeal to it, though. A friend of mine bought an Xterra last year. He was also considering a Chevy Equinox. The "cool" factor of the Xterra is what won out, though. And I'll admit I like the 2002-06 Altima a lot, along with the new one.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    My '99 Quest (assembled by Ford in Ohio) seems pretty good, especially considering my maintenance habits. The stuff coming out of the newish Canton MS factory has had a lot of growing pains. Pf_Flyer has had several Nissans over the last couple of decades and he likes to put a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Hopefully he'll have similar luck with his new Versa.

    While I think the (Japanese) drivetrain on my Quest is good (touching wood at 119,500 miles), my next car will be based on the most bang for the buck. Just like the Quest was, and the Voyager before it, and the good old '82 Toyota too. The other car here now is a Subaru, so I guess I'm most loyal to my bank account. :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    Pf_Flyer has had several Nissans over the last couple of decades and he likes to put a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Hopefully he'll have similar luck with his new Versa.

    While I'm not really a fan of little cars, I've thought about trying to force myself into something smaller and more fuel-effient the next time I buy a new/new-ish car. I checked out the Versa when it first came out. Not a bad little car, although the driving position was a bit tight for me, with respect to legroom.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    He seems to manage ok.


  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited July 2011
    "Kelly says Korean car maker Hyundai took over the top spot on its brand-loyalty list for the second quarter, moving ahead of Honda and Toyota, two mainstays at the top of the list.

    The change could indicate Hyundai is finally leaving behind the upstart status it has been unable to completely shake since arriving in the U.S. in the mid-1980s."

    Hyundai Tops Toyota, Honda in Loyalty Study (Wall St. Journal)

    The "loyalty" may just be a reflection of gas prices:

    Hyundai MPG Focus Nets U.S. Sales Boost (AutoObserver)

    "Hyundai said last week that it's selling more U.S. vehicles that get at least 40 miles per gallon highway than the rest of the auto industry combined, indicating that the South Korean automaker is using its emphasis on fuel economy to overcome past questions of reliability and close the gap with better known imports such as Toyota and Honda."

    And the earthquake and recalls before that haven't helped Japanese automakers.

    "It remains to be seen if Toyota’s brand has fully shaken the safety-recall catastrophe of 2010. Significant new products will remain spare except for Camry. Even the newly expanded Prius lineup, starved out of production by parts shortages for most of the second quarter, may find a less-than-fevered reception among American consumers as gas prices level off. Honda still must find ways to regenerate enthusiasm for its brand in a market where many rivals now equal its quality and functionality. Nissan has fared best of the three in recovering from the disaster and was able to report an 11-percent increase in June sales while its two big rivals declined."

    12 Factors To Watch In Industry's Second Half
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sign of the times, perhaps, but let's remember the Japanese brands had a serious handicap on the supply side for all cars from the quake-affected island.
  • Only thing that keeps people loyal to a brand is emotion... Which is bad for business I really could care less about the brand of car as long as im getting a reliable car that looks good. People get way to emotionally attached and the car companies love it im sure. If I could just tell those emotionally attached people one thing it would be the car companies don't care about you all they want is whats in your wallet! = )
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    "Just because Pontiac customers can't buy a G8 anymore doesn’t mean they're leaving the GM umbrella. Nearly 40 percent of Pontiac owners who traded in for a new car in 2011 opted for another GM vehicle."

    Pontiac Owners Remain Loyal to GM, Study Says (Inside Line)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They did well compared to other GM brands, sure, but Honda and Ford retain 62% loyalty, per JD Power, so I still wouldn't call that good overall.

    GM loses fewer Pontiac customers compared to other brands, that's how I'd say it. The majority still bail.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    Nearly 40 percent of Pontiac owners who traded in for a new car in 2011 opted for another GM vehicle."

    That's because Hertz, Avis, et al buy Malibus and Impalas now, instead of Grand Prixes, Bonnevilles, G6'es, and G5's. :blush:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The study actually said GM.

    So the rental agencies must be buying Chrysler 200s and Fusions. ;)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited November 2011
    "But one thing that has been highlighted by all of Chevrolet’s new-product successes is the glaring reality that General Motors hasn’t been able to develop a modern brand presence for Chevy to match its vehicles. In his 18 months as GM’s chief marketing officer, Joel Ewanick has been trying gamely to shape a historically iconic American brand into an even more effective modern marquee in North America that also, for the first time, would resonate as a global brand as well."

    Chevrolet Hoping Brand Catches Up With Products (AutoObserver)

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    "Send in the clones. The virtually identical 2013 Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ make a mockery of the idea that a brand's identity matters.

    The BRZ and FR-S take badge engineering -- the notion that you can put two brand logos on a single vehicle and convince people they're unique and different -- to depths not seen since General Motors decimated the value of its Pontiac brand with identi-cars like the Pontiac G5, which was a barely disguised Chevrolet Cobalt."

    Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ are almost identical (Detroit Free Press)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,914
    Some brands have more equity to a potential buyer than others, even if they aren't technically "loyal". In my case, the Subaru brand is a lot more appealing than Scion.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    It's a bit easier for me to get to a Scion dealer but there's not a huge difference. Limited experience but the Scion dealer in Boise seemed much less slimy than the Subaru dealer when I went for quotes. New building too.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,914
    I just don't like the marketing-driven existence of Scion, nor the rest of their lineup, which previously has been plain old beige with a dash of faux-hip. At least Subaru has been something different, and has some history of a few cars for enthusiasts.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Funny, because I think Subaru lost its way a bit with the bigger, SUVier wagons. Still like the Forester a lot though. Could easily live with an xD too though.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,914
    Luckily, Subaru still has the Impreza, with genuinely sporty versions. All Scion has for sport is the tC, which is a sports coupe for someone too boring or timid to pursue anything actually interesting or fun.

    I do like how Scion was aimed at young buyers, but was embraced by the active boomer crowd. Says something about the fun to drive factor, maybe.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Either that or us oldsters have seen it all and want something that's practical (hatches and wagons) and don't need to be seen driving a tuner.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,914
    Scion does have practicality. Cars that would have been Tercel and Corolla variants before marketing became king.

    Or maybe the arthritis/aching joints make the low entry of tuned cars hard, and the encroaching senility makes remembering the shift patterns troublesome :shades:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited November 2012
    Funny, but I can do child pose all day long but I'd much rather ease into my minivan than fold down into my Outback.
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