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Cabover Campers & Camper Trailers (pickups)

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Comments

  • oltroll1oltroll1 Member Posts: 46
    Volkej-- I made an awning for my pop up and use it all the time.Cost under $20.00 to build and works great. Only takes a couple of min. to put up. I have it attached to the pop up section; that way I can leave the zippered windows open in the rain.

    Joe--- How do you like your solar panels? I have thought about them but not sure of what size to get or if they are worth the expense.
  • volkejvolkej Member Posts: 108
    I’m going to call tomorrow and see if that screen door can be added. Ya’ll talked me into it. The problem is that the screen door requires a different doorframe than the door without a screen. If they’ve already got that part installed it may be too expensive to replace.
    I can always add an awning later.I had one of the top latches moved to the back rather than the side to accommodate an awning if I changed my mind.

    Joe – Mike does still work for 4Wheel. He told me about some plans for the users group. He’s also talking about a gathering somewhere (probably Bodega Bay area). If we could get enough people interested that would be fun. He was talking about people with 4Wheel campers, but I think it should be open to anyone with a camper. The more the merrier.

    Oltroll1 – 5 to 10 watt solar panels will trickle charge your batteries and cost around $100. 30 watts and up will keep batteries up for powering small appliances and start around $400. 100 watt units are supposed to make you pretty much power independent, but those babies are mucho dinero – like $1000. Some of those big motor homes have 200 – 300 watts of solar power. Great as long as the sun shines.

    Jim

    "Feed a starving dog and he won't bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
  • joejoe Member Posts: 16
    Hey all,
    Mike what map package did you use when you tried to lay out your route in the Central Valley? Because I agree with you that if you are using the Road & Rec. maps it is very hard to put together route that has some real meaning (you need to enter each turn by hand). But I thought that the Metro Guide would do an auto route for you (give your starting and ending points) and it would tell you where to turn. I don't have the Metro Guide maps so I don't know how it works. Also doing the route on the GPS unit it self is hard to do, a PC is real handy.
    On the solar panel, I have what is called a self regulating one. It puts out 45 watts, and for my uses thats enough. I am not a power hog, no AC and no heater. About the only thing that I have that draws alot of power is a small color TV and I think thats only 55 watts.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    I was trying to lay it out using the US Road and Rec CD on my computer. Anyway, that wasn't my major concern - the missing campgrounds and roads bothered me alot more. I can get current maps from AAA and they seem to have the detail and accuracy that I want.

    The GPS was supposed to help me find new places, but it didn't seem useful for finding small roads and such. Much more useful for boating or hiking where you want to mark a buoy or a crumbtrail to get yourself back home.

    Mike L
  • BrutusBrutus Member Posts: 1,113
    I have an 8' awning and use it quite a bit. It's nice to have a place to keep things dry when it rains, such as firewood, lawn chairs, coolers, camper stoves, etc.

    It takes about two minutes to open or close. There is a fold up crank handle that you turn about a dozen revolutions to open or close. The support posts are built into the awning and can either be set to the ground patio style or attached to the built in brackets on the side of the camper.

    I'm not sure how much the option cost, but I think they are alot pricier to install after the fact. The only time that you don't want to use it is if it is windy out. I wouldn't use it in winter weather either. Snow would be too heavy and cold temps leave the potential to damage it while retracting it since it would likely get brittle in freezing temps.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    It's pretty quiet in here. I guess we are just all chatted out.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Saturday:

    I needed a driveshaft to finish my El Camino 4spd to automatic conversion. I sold it to a guy who wanted an automatic, so I'm doing the conversion for him. Went the wrecking yard. Spend an hour sorting through a pile of driveshafts, finding one that 'might' work. Ask about a warranty, etc. 30 exhchange or store credit. But, he says, we have another El Camino out there in front that isn't in inventory yet. Check it out, viola - the correct shaft. Wait an hour for them to pull it out. $65 and I'm gone.

    Stop at the RV Parts Outlet on the way home and pick up the HappiJac turnbuckles I've been talking about for awhile. Stop at Mike's Truck Accesories and check out the receiver hitch I wanted. Go home and get cash and go back and pick up the hitch.

    Eat Lunch.

    Back to work on the EC. Crawl under the dash, find a wire for the dash lights, and run the wire to the newly installed floor shifter for the automatic. Cut a piece of carpet for the hole left by the 4 speed and not covered by the automatic shifter. Finish hooking up the Automatic shifter and bolt it together. Adjust the neutral start swith. Replace the carpet, reinstall the bucket seat. Install the driveshaft. Start car, check everything, twice. Shut it off. Lower car off jackstands, clean up around car. Open gates and drive car to front of house. Have to manuever through a 7 1/2' opening between house and full garage. Hose off car. Try wipers - no wipers. Move camper, put car in the street. Check wires to wipers. Fix wire that was opened when intermittent wiper attachement was added (I removed this thing, cause it didn't work; and that caused the wipers not to work). Test drive car. Went to my daughter's house and picked up all the AC stuff for the EC. Trans is acting wierd, surging and won't stay in gear. I feel funny sitting at a green light with the engine at 3000 rpm and not moving. Limp home. Add 3 quarts of tranny fluid and it runs much better!
    Call John and tell him the car is ready.

    Trial fit the HappiJac trunbuckles. Go rummage for a bracket to attach to the camper. Find some 1/2" steel brackets I pulled off a woodburning stove 2 years ago. Bend and paint.

    Grandson comes over to spend the night.

    Sunday:

    A day of rest. Grandson has to be up at 6 to get ready for a hockey game. Take the front wheels off the El Camino and check the brakes.

    I mow the yard, and get out the weedwacker for trimming.

    Install the Class IV receiver hitch. 1000 lbs tongue weight, 10,000 lb trailer. And 65 lbs to hold in place and start the bolts. Thank heaven for floor jacks. Actually fits good and looks good. Draw-Tite.

    Off to OSH to find some 3/8" flat head screws for the turnbuckle brackets. Stop at REI to look at bicycle racks for the receiver hitch. We settle on a Yakima Roc2. Return home.

    Install the front (spring loaded turnbuckles) with the new brackets - OK. On to the rears. Hmmmm, drill out a couple of holes to 1/2" for the bigger turnbuckles, cut the chain down by three links and the rears are in place.

    Assemble the Yakima bike rack. Fit it onto the truck. All is well with the world.

    John calls. Spend 45 looking all over the house for the spare keys. Can't find where the wife hid them. She swears she has never seen them, but when we finally find them she says, Oh those keys. Take the EC over to him and fill out some paperwork, bill of sale, etc. He brings me home.

    Put the camper in the driveway and level it. It is hot, and the camper is a cooler place to sleep on hot nights. Looks like we will be sleeping outside for a couple more nights.

    John calls. The EC won't start. Go over to check it out. Neutral start switch has moved. Bring the car back home and find 2 stripped screws. Damn, who has been working under here????? Oops, it was me. Make some hose clamps to hold the switch to the steering column and send him on his way.

    Sit down to watch some Olympics - shoot it's bedtime already.

    Vince, I'm not chatted out, just no time to talk. Are you ready to go to the Los Padres Nat'l Forest. Maybe in October? The next couple of weekends are spoken for.

    Mike L
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    That was some weekend; right up there with Brutus's river weekend. I'd get no more than 1/3 of that done if I really tried. But then I sleep, unlike some of us.

    Congrats on finishing the EC finally. Now you have more driveway for new stuff. You still have the old truck don't you? You should sell it while it still has warranty remaining as that is a pretty strong selling point.

    Did you buy the spring loaded HappiJacs for front and rear or do you have the rubber isolated one for the rear? I like the spring ones better, I don't know why they do the rubber thing. By the way, after using my old set for years I learned by RTFM that the turnbuckles should be installed with the threaded rod UP to keep water from going inside. This is counter-intuitive to me. My old set was quite rusty inside.

    Are you going to carry the bikes with the camper? You can't get in the door then. Do you intend on bringing them on dirt roads etc.?

    Oct sounds good for the trip. I'm busy the next few weekends too. I'm buying a company car so I'll finally have a car again soon. Then I can leave the camper on the truck sometimes and use it a little more often.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    I got the set with springs in the front and rubber washers in the rear. The instruction say to mount them threaded side up, which was the only way they would fit on the front of my camper. The brackets I used don't have enough space for the body of the turnbuckle to be at the top. Of course, the instructions also say to oil them and wax them 4 times a year to prevent rust.

    Yes, we will carry bikes with the camper. Possibly on dirt roads also. Probably not everywhere we go, but certainly on long trips. Many times we have wanted to go into town, and it is a couple of miles. Not far enough to break camp, but too far to walk on a hot day. The bikes give us another choice. The rack is supposed to fold down to allow access to the camper without moving the bikes. We haven't tried it yet, but it looks promising.

    You're buying a company car? Does that mean the comnpany is selling some of the company cars and you are getting one, or that the company is buying you are car and you have to go pick it out? If the latter, might I suggest the new Ferrari 360 roadster? Best in class fuel economy and enough room for a weekend business trip. CFO won't go for that, huh? How about a new Silverado 1500LS 2wd with a 4.8L and an automatic. Maybe even and extended cab to carry more than two people. And you still get the advantage of having a PU. Surely, you wouldn't join the SUV crowd would you?

    My camper hasn't been off the 2500 since I bought it.

    Later,

    Mike L
  • volkejvolkej Member Posts: 108
    Found an excellent website related to RV stuff. They have very informative reports on RV electrical systems, including all you would want to know about solar setups. Check it out at
    http://www.phrannie.org/phredex.html

    Jim
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I'm buying a car from the company fleet of Ferraris, I mean Tauruses, any day now. They replace the fleet every year so the car will be close to new and have about 7000 miles. Price is just decent, around $14-15k. You can get new ones with $1000 rebate and 0.9% from Ford. Probably only a few k$ more but oh well. The 2000 version is finally de-uglyfied enough that I will own one.

    I wouldn't mind getting the car I'm driving now, a new Cadillac Devile. GM is paying most of the rental fee because the dealer won't give me my truck back. I'm getting a new radio (again) and since it won't run without a radio they keep it. The Cadillac is pretty amazing. Nice smooth ride with NO brake dive and very little body roll. It must be an active suspension. Anyway it's a fun diversion.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    Thanks for the link, it looks like a good source of useful information.

    I started reading about sewage but thought maybe I should leave that treat for another night.
  • volkejvolkej Member Posts: 108
    Yeah, it’s best to leave discussions about macerators and stuff like that for the dinner table.
    One of the points made in one of those articles was that furnaces are great wasters of energy and aren’t really useful until temperatures get close to zero. The writer seemed to think catalytic heaters were best for RVs in most circumstances. What is the consensus from those of you who have furnaces? Do they put a large drain on your batteries? And a peripheral question is: how do you keep the batteries charged when you’re camped for more than a day at a time? Running the truck engine would charge the battery, but you would have to run the engine for some time to bring the battery up to a full charge. Is a separate generator the way to go? Man! This could get expensive.
  • BrutusBrutus Member Posts: 1,113
    I run the heater occassionally when the temps are dropping down into the 40s at night. I only run it at night for eight hours or so. It does put a drain on the battery. I run my generator about 20-30 minutes in the morning and 20-30 minutes in the evening and the battery has plenty of juice to run it the next night. My friend does not have a generator. He runs the truck 20-30 minutes in the morning and evening and accomplishes the same thing when he runs his furnace. It sounds like running the truck may actually charge the battery faster than the generator.

    For winter camping, when temps are down in the teens and 20s, a standard deep cycle battery wouldn't likely last all night before being drained. Plus, you would probably want to run the furnace all the time, day and night, even if you set it low when you were not in the camper. You would either need to get a generator or run the truck fairly often. My friend bought a 1000 amp one that he carries along for cold weather camping that works good for him. I've got a Onan Microlite 2500.

    I had planned to do some winter camping this year, but I ended up buying a house. The house will be finished December, so my winter is going to be preoccupied with moving into the new house. I am exploring two options for future winter camping. One is to run two deep cycle batteries and the other is to buy a big full-timer battery. Both options might get me through cold winter nights without needing the generator or truck engine, although I will still need to run the generator periodically during the day to maintain a good charge.

    I'm going to winterize the camper this week. We've had temps in the low to mid 30s a couple of nights. All the trees and mountains are orange and red. The days are getting shorter. Winter is on the way.....
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Are regular where I live/camp. My twin 6V golf cart batteries will go a weekend (220amp-hours) running heat and .....

    Would not be happy without a 20000 BTU propane furnace....
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    When out camping, we set our thermostat at 34 at night, so it will prevent freezups and nothing else. The down comforter keeps us comfortable. During waking hours, we keep it 65-70 inside, and turn it down when we leave.

    Ran the battery down once when I left the refrig on DC and again this week when we have been camped in the driveway for 10 days and only moved the truck once for the fumigators. A couple of lights (3 Amps ea?) for a couple of hours a night finally brought the battery down.

    The furnace only runs for a few minutes at a time and doesn't seem to pull the battery down much. May be a real advantage to having a very small camper?

    Mike L
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I have two 12V deep cycle batteries and do just fine for a few days easy. I run the furnace at at least 70 while awake and set it to 50-55 at night. It comes on quite a bit but the batteries hold out fine. Having new batteries helps. Also it's not below freezing too often.

    You do not need a generator just for the heater. Running the truck a few minutes is a reasonable alternative. A second battery helps too, I put one under the hood.

    I measured the actual current used by everything in the camper some time ago. I'll pass on my findings.

    Single light 1.4A (1146 automotive bulb)
    Stereo 0.5A
    Range fan 1.1A
    Heater fan 2.7A
    Water pump 3.6A

    I think my heater is 14000 BTU or so.

    My last camper had a catalytic heater so I've lived with both. The cat is by far a better heater: warmer, way more efficient, quiet, constant heat, works just fine with the door open, no battery required. Given all that I'd still take the furnace for one reason--it's vented. The cat burns clean but does have a little odor. It also uses oxygen so you must leave something open. I usually left a vent open to let the fumes exit and a window open for fresh intake.

    The cat is so hot it can burn things. I melted a pair of wet shoes once, and I had to keep an eye on the dog's tail too. If you have kids it is dangerous. It made me a bit nervous to leave it on at night so I usually didn't. Mine didn't have a thermostat, that is a feature of the furnace I like very much. I suspect they make cat heaters with thermostats and electric start though.

    One of my most favorite things was to be in a beautiful place and have the door wide open no matter how cold it was outside. Sitting in front of that heater we would be toasty warm. I can't do that anymore because the furnace will hardly ever turn off and when it does you get cold in minutes. I've considered adding a cat heater just for this purpose but haven't gone that far yet.

    So I'd recommend a beefy battery setup with a furnace and live with that awhile before considering a generator.
  • blawlessblawless Member Posts: 29
    My wife and I camp well into November and here in Idaho, November in the mountains means single digits. We are going this weekend and are expecting mid 20's. Our cat furnace has no problem keeping us warm. In fact, I am usually half out of the covers to cool down. I will admit that the floor of the camper gets pretty chilly in the morning, but that's what shoes are for. I don't plan on changing anything.
    On battery life, I run two deep cycles batteries in parallel and can get four days of running lights, water pump (no shower), a 6" fan all night, and a TV before a recharge. I borrow a friend's Honda 1100 generator which is super quiet and brings everything back to a full charge in 1-2 hours. If I am going to be gone longer, I don't run the fan at night.
  • volkejvolkej Member Posts: 108
    I went to an RV show yesterday and I’ve decided to forget cabover campers. I'm going to get one of those $350,000 motor homes. The heck with worrying about little furnaces and stuff like that; I want tile floors, marble countertops, crystal lamps, and Corinthian leather. Now that’s the way to go camping!
    Let’s see – what did I do with that lottery ticket?
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    What's the matter, they wouldn't let you into the really nice $600,000+ models?

    It seems hard to consider it camping when you have all the comforts of home and more. Sometimes even the popup camper doesn't seem much like camping. Now a tent, that is camping! That doesn't mean I don't like my portable motel, I do enjoy it.

    I must admit, the storage area under one of those big buses means you don't have to leave anything home; or more correctly, everything is home since that behemoth is your moveable home. And that is more than a portable motel.

    I wonder how those big buses do off road? I could see one next to a little stream 3 miles off the road in the mountains.

    Mike L
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Well Vince, I did it. I broke down and bought those PIAA Driving/Fog lights (PIAA 980). Now I have to figure out how to wire them up. I will use the factory fog light controller to power the fog lights.

    I will probably install a switch over by the Passenger Air Bag On/Off Switch for the driving lights. I want to wire them so they only come on when the high beams are on.

    It looks like there is a wire from a 'Roof Beacon' switch option that already runs through the firewall and I will try to use that. Another option might be to try and use a wire that is meant for the AutoTrac option. You might think that I don't want to run a wire through the firewall, and you'd be right. I will find an existing wire and use it, even if I have to cut it free at both ends.

    This weekend I will try to mount the lights, and then the wiring. And maybe work on my friend's Motorcycle that doesn't run. And work on my fence. And mow the grass. And then there is the Honey Do list.

    Later,


    Mike L
  • oltroll1oltroll1 Member Posts: 46
    If you have not seen it check out the new Sunlite trailbreaker 1000 sl. Its their new slide-out camper. (Sunliteinc.com). I would really have to get a new truck for this one.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Well, they are installed and working. Took a couple of hours to fabricate brackets to mount them, a couple of hours more to wade through the wiring diagrams and decide on how to wire them, a couple of hours more to actually do the wiring.

    The foglight portion works through the factory foglight switch. I added a switch for the driving lights in the small pocket where the autotrac switches would be if I had them. I had to fabricate a small metal panel to fit in that spot and hold the switch and an LED (to tell me when the driving lights are on). The driving lights only come on when the high beams are on.

    Since I have the relay that has high and low beams come on at the same time, I now have Hi Beams, Low Beams and Driving Lights at the same time. If I can't see at night, I better get new glasses.

    See pictures of the dual PIAAs at:

    http://community.webshots.com/user/mledtje

    Anybody want to buy a factory foglight? I have both the right and the left available - $25 each.

    Mike L
  • jheiljheil Member Posts: 30
    Folks,

    I have been reading these messages for quite sometime (actually, I've read both archives from start to finish) and have appreciated the willingness to share your knowledge. May I ask for a bit more...?

    I am considering the purchase of a Phoenix or Four Wheel pop-up for a Toyota Tundra.

    I have noted some of the pro's and con's of each from several of you (mledtje, volkej and joe). Unfortunately, I have only been able to examine a Phoenix when I visited their factory in Colorado over the weekend. I noted a couple of features I liked and wonder if someone who has knowledge of both campers could comment.

    The Phoenix had what I thought was a pretty easy up system. I also liked the fact that the insulation was not an add-on, that is it is sewn right into the sidecover with three layers: outside, insulation and inside covering. There were also two vents and the smooth aluminum (fiberglass?) siding.

    I also wasn't overly impressed with the finish work of the Phoenix but I tend to be overly picky.

    Is there anyone who can offer advice? I understand the Phoenix will likely be less expensive but maybe not quite as 'tight'.

    Kind regards,

    Joe (another joe)
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Joe,

    I also like the built-in insulation, however....it is not as durable as the single layer of the 4Wheel. Also, at the top, where it attaches to the top, it is not folded over. So any water that leaks into that place is wicked into the inner layer and you can't get it out.

    The only thing that stops leaks is a bead of caulk between the aluminum trim strip and the top. Mine leaked when new. If the side material were folded over before it was screwed down, it would be less likely to wick in water.

    It is a tough call, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. The 4Wheel camper is lower inside (because of the double step sides) and has less storage space, but you can sit inside with the top down.

    The Phoenix is a good deal cheaper, if you can deal with the built-in problems. I don't know if you found my old post with the problems I had with my Phoenix camper or not, but here it is:

    Problems noted with Phoenix Camper

     No Manual/warranty Card for water heater
     Defective Awning leg
     No fire extinguisher
     Broken screw in water fill
     Window has large (1/4”) gap (cutout too large)
     Refrig vent does not fit hole
     Door hard to open/close (cutout too small)
     Front of top does not seal (1/2-3/4” gap)
     Rear top latch ½ engaged
     Numerous gaps, leaks, openings for mosquitos, etc
    -through battery box
    -1”x1” hole for gas to refrig
    -water fill
    -ext shower
    -gap at top of storage above refrig
    -roof vents
    -hinged access at bottom left front
     Power hook-up wire poorly routed
     Rear storage compartment lock does not open
     Rear storage compartments open to bed area
     Interior cabinet door does not open fully
     Interior cabinet door reversed

    The first three items, they supplied parts for (I'm in CA) and the rest I took care of. I had to remove the door and window to repair those. It wasn't a lot of work, but it took several weekends. I found the mosquito holes by going inside on a bright sunny day, closing curtains, etc. to make it very dark inside. Then I looked for light leaks. Look very carefully inside and under everything. They can even get in between the handle and the screen on the roof vents. The mosquitos could have ruined our vacation, but thankfully, none got in.

    I would really like a 4Wheel Camper, but I'm not sure I want to give up the space of the Phoenix.

    It is a toss-up.

    Mike L
  • jheiljheil Member Posts: 30
    Mike,

    Sure appreciate you taking the time to summarize your impressions, again. Funny, I noticed the silicone caulking along the top and bottom edges of the insulation and noted it would likely have to be redone from time to time to maintain its integrity.

    When I visited Phoenix I walked away with the impression that quality control might be a concern. Just one of those intangible feelings I was left with. They are about 4" wider than a Four Wheel (84" vs. 80") and I was pleasantry surprised by the amount of storage, though.

    Glad all of your concerns were able to be resolved or corrected. Sure would like to see a Four Wheel in person before I decide. It does indeed sound like a toss-up.

    They did have a Help Wanted sign-up at Phoenix when I visited (just like most businesses in the Denver area). If I had a couple of weeks to kill maybe I'd get a job under an alias, ask to work on this one camper that seems to need 'extra' attention and take delivery the day I give my notice. Just a thought...

    Best regards,

    Joe
  • volkejvolkej Member Posts: 108
    Joe
    How did you decide on the choice of Phoenix and Four Wheel? There are a number of other pop-up campers out there and they all seemed to be pretty good. Hallmark ( www.hallmarkrv.com ) is in Brighton, Colorado (20 miles from Denver); I only mention them because you looked at the Phoenix camper, which is also in Colorado. I guess, because of the number available, you just have to pick a couple and go from there.
    I chose the Four Wheel and might have chosen another brand if weight wasn’t one of my main criteria. You certainly won’t make a choice of the Four Wheel if price is the prime consideration. I also liked the Four Wheel because I could buy a bare bones version (Shell Model) and could build the interior as I wanted. Price was a motivating factor here also; the Shell model was 2K less than a model with a stove, sink, and icebox (not refrigerator).
    Weight seems to be the driving force behind the design of the Four Wheel. The cabinets, etc. in the other campers I looked at seemed to be much more substantial, not necessarily better, just heavier and more solid feeling.
    The frame in the Four Wheel is aluminum and the others are of wood construction. Again, one is not necessarily better, the wood is just heavier. Actually, I think the aluminum frame will, if not insulated properly, condensate more than the wood frame. The way to avoid that is to put some insulating material between the aluminum frame and the skin of the camper (it will slow thermal conductivity, which is a cause of condensation); I don’t know if Four Wheel does that or not. I purchased a Fantastic roof fan, in addition to the standard roof vent, to help alleviate any condensation problem.
    The Four Wheel also has a reputation for quality construction. My evidence of this is purely anecdotal, I’ve not seen a professional review of any of the pop-up campers.
    So, I guess what it comes down to is: you make a list of the things you must have, a list of the things it would be nice to have, a list of the things you don’t want or need, see which camper best suits those wants and needs, total the price and make a decision.
    Have fun!
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Joe,

    Phoenix will make specials. They made our camper 80" wide and reduced the thickness of the front overhang to 6" - just like the 4Wheel Camper. We really liked the 4Wheel camper, and price drove us to the Phoenix.

    We do like our camper, and appreciate the extra storage over the 4Wheel model. Even with the size being the same we have more storage because the counter are higher, the couch is higher, we have storage under the dinette table, etc.

    I think we would have been happy with either camper.

    These two are the lightest campers I could find. Any other popup I looked at weighed 2-800 lbs more. With the Phoenix, myself, my wife and food, water, clothes, etc. we weighed in at 6400lbs. That equals 1800-2000lbs load. Which is more than most 1/2 4x4s tons are rated to carry. We were right at the Max GVWR of our Silverado 4x4. Which worried my wife to no end, so we bought a 3/4 ton Silverado and have plenty of load capacity now.

    I don't know what kind of truck you are planning to put the camper on, but check the weight ratings carefully. We have a 1200 lb camper, 330 lbs of people, 200lbs of gasoline, 150-200 lbs of water/supplies/clothes/etc. So a 1200 lb camper equals ~1900 lbs total. Make sure your truck is rated to carry that load - not all are!

    If you are close on weight, investigate Air Lifts. If you are over, look at a heavier truck or a lighter camper (4Wheel ?).

    Good Luck,

    Mike L
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I believe the Phoenix camper has an aluminum frame as well.

    Mike I'm jealous! PIAA lights are on my list of overpriced toys to buy some day. I just bought a DeWalt 12" sliding compound miter saw and Porter Cable nail gun so my toy budget is exhausted. How are the lights? Are the fog lights better than the GM units (not hard to do)? Do the driving lights really help? Do you think it was worth the investment?

    You said you had to make a mounting bracket to mount the lights. I assumed they would come with a Silverado compatible bracket since they are marketed for that truck. What gives?

    I want to be able to use the fog lights with high beams which the factory control won't let you do. So I'll likely use all new wiring. What wires did you end up using? The Roof Beacon wiring goes to the back of the cab, it doesn't go into the engine compartment. By the way, there is a spot on the firewall GM made for passing wires. You do have to drill but so what. I used it for my air bag air lines.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Of course, the Phoenix has an aluminum frame. But it also has a thin plywood (3/16") inside and outside, and a plastic outerwall. And the heavier construction inside.

    I'll trade you my PIAA for your DeWalt 12" sliding compound miter saw any day!! That's been on my Christmas list for several years now.

    1. The PIAA brackets are the same universal ones they ship with all their lights - with no hints on installation on a Silverado.

    2. The Roof Beacon wiring I used runs from Underhood Bussed Electrical Center to the Mid Bussed Electrical Center under the dash. The rest of the Roof Beacon wiring has to be bought and added. The wires are SEO1 and SEO2 and were for the add on lights.

    3. I think you can run the foglights and the highbeams at the same time. Override the automatic control of the headlights, turn on the foglights, then use the switch to turn on the headlights and high beams. It might work, I haven't tried it. I know you can run the foglights with the parking lights this way.
    Why do you want to run high beams and fog at the same time? Why not high and low beams together?

    4.The foglights are better than the GM ones. The driving lights are spread beam, not pencil beams. I will have to wait until I get out in the mountains or woods at night to see how much I like them. I'll bet that traditional full size driving lights would be more effective than the little ones. The big advantage here is the size. I'm trying to picture full size light mounted on the top of the bumper.

    So, are you into your new house? Is that why you need new power tool toys? Or are you fixing the old house to sell it?

    Later,

    Mike L
  • jaz00jaz00 Member Posts: 1
    Hey, Joe this is Joe Z. the one that owns a FourWheel camper. Anyway here are somethings to think about when buying a camper.
    - From talking with RV owners (if you take out the problems they see with drive line stuff) the biggest problems that they have are related to water, wood rot. So if you look at the FourWheel camper the frame is made out of aluminum so that won't rot out. Also I don't think it will rack over time like a wood frame might. The wood for the floor and cabinets is made out of marine grade plywood, I think this should hold up better to water. Other campers that I looked at used flake
    board or osb, from my limited use of these materials they never seam to hold up.
    - Appliances I think what ever you buy you are in for the same reliability here since all of the manufactures use the same ones.
    - Soft side walls and roof lift. The roof lift mechanism is really simple and I can't see this thing breaking unless you push on something wrong or too hard. One of the reasons I like the lift mechanism on the FourWheel camper is that it
    is so simple, no cables or motors. It all hand and back powered. I wished the ceiling was made out of something hard and not the soft stuff that they used. The side walls may be the weak link they used some kind of vinyl material. My concern is that the sun light might cause it to break down after a few years, they warrantee it for 3 years so they must believe it will hold up. By the way
    you can replace it if you need to.
    IMHO, I don't think you can go wrong as long as you KISS (keep it simple stupid). So many times I start talking to RV owners and they seam to be spending all thier time fixing something on the RV.
    Just something for you to think about,
    Joe
  • blawlessblawless Member Posts: 29
    All right guys, I got everything dialed in to haul my old camper and my old boat just fine. Unfortunately, my old 16 ft, 2000 lb. boat decided to give up the ghost. It has been replaced with a 1988 Four Winns 21' 5000 lb. Horizon. Now I sag.
    I have already replaced the suspension spring front and back and added overloads on the back, but when I drop that 420lb. tounge weight on there, it gives up. Can air bags save me? The truck is being replaced next year, so I want to keep cost down. I am willing to go the $300 to put in the bags.
    This is all piled on a 1987 GMC 2WD 1/2ton with a 5.0L and 4spd.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    For 420 lb load you can get by with the light duty air lifts and save a couple of bucks. Or you can get the heavy duty air lifts and get easier installation - at least it was easier on my Silverado.

    I think the light duty air bags were around $120 and 4 hours installation, the heavy duty ones were around $200 and 1.5 hours installation.

    Check out the Air Lift website at:

    http://www.airliftcompany.com/indexAL.htm

    You can buy them from Camping World, Jegs, JC Whitney, or most any camping or truck supply place.

    Mike L
  • jheiljheil Member Posts: 30
    Mike L, volkej, Vince4 and Joe Z,

    Many thanks for your time and knowledge. The truck is a Toyota Tundra. I narrowed it to the Phoenix and Four Wheel because of low payload capacity of a Tundra. Its about 1,500 lbs. I'll certainly add air bags no matter what I buy. I am concerned about exceeding weight limits so I may require a different vehicle.

    I think I will make it a point to look at a Four Wheel before deciding. Not doing so will make the decision even more difficult.

    This is certainly the most helpful and informative message board I visit. Many thanks again...

    Joe
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    Why doesn't anyone ever mention Northstar? They advertise them for off-road use. Check out the popup standard features section of

    http://www.northstarcampers.com

    they appear to be well made. I met someone in a campground once who had a small truck version, he really liked it.

    Check out this gizmo for your outside shower -


    image
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    Don't worry about going a few hundred pounds over the truck rating. There is plenty of safety margin, especially once you add bags and whatever else. I had much worse than that for years and did okay.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    Face it, you need a new truck. 3/4 ton.

    I agree with Mike on the air bags, the light duty ones would handle the tongue weight fine. I believe the difficult installation he referred to has more to do with the box frame of the new Silverado rather than the bags themselves (correct Mike?). Your truck likely doesn't have that frame design.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I want to run the fog and bright lights at the same time to illuminate around corners. When driving on TWISTY mountain roads with hairpins and such you are driving into darkness. Even with high and low beams the area to the sides isn't well illuminated. With good fog lights, they have such a wide illumination angle they help fill in. Since the area of interest is quite close, it's okay that they don't carry far.

    In my last truck I had the fog lights wired to be on/off/auto-on with brights. Now I want the same feature but with driving and fog lights. That makes for some interesting wiring. I also want to have the low and high beams on together like yours.

    The factory wiring will never let you have the fog and brights on together, even in bypass mode.

    Did PIAA say not to run both at once? I would think the heat could be a problem. Wouldn't that be cool, have all 8 lights on at once! I'll settle for 6 like you have.

    I am working on the house a little. More just because I want to, but also in case I sell it. I'm in no hurry to move, it could be awhile. Nothing on the market is right anyway. For the folks around the country to let you know how crazy it is here, I'm looking at the lower end of the market in a decent area which means less than $700k.

    Vince

    P.S. The saw is great! I just ripped a 13" board at a 45deg bevel. Now I see why Norm's stuff fits so well.
  • blawlessblawless Member Posts: 29
    Vince and mledtje, thanks for the advice. I called a bunch of dealers for prices included the place that installed the original overload springs. We are going to add a leaf to the overloads to solve the problem. This should cost under $100.
    You are absolutely right that I need a new truck. I looked at 3/4ton 4WD ex-cabs and found them to be in the $30-33k range(new). I have found two Dually Crewcabs for less than $33 brand new. It is funny what demand can do to prices.
    I would love the new Silverado 3500, but ~$40k is too steep. I find a lot of 98-00 dually crewcabs in the Boise area with less than 25k miles for $25k or less. I will probably go that route since as soon as the truck is paid for, we are going with an 11.5 ft. camper.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Vince,

    The PIAA switch lets you select between Fog, Driving and Off. You could rewire the factory fog lights to come on when the hi beams are on. As I recall, it is a question of where the ground for the relay is. Right now the low beams complete the foglight relay ground path. I you moved that one wire over to the parking lights ground it may solve that issue.

    The PIAA driving lights are broad beam and fill alot of dark space near the truck with light. I don't think they will do much beyond 1-200'. Not the pencil beam, long range driving lights I was thinking about. But, they may work quite well - I just need to get out and test them.

    Blawless,

    I don't like add on leaves because they increase the ride stiffness all the time, while the airbags can be relieved of most of the air to retain the stock ride, yet still offer support when you need it.

    The difference in installation of the air bags is mostly because the light duty bags required drilling in the frame and the heavy duty one did not. Sure wish I had thought of putting the air lines into the license plate bolts earlier.

    Later,

    Mike L
  • blawlessblawless Member Posts: 29
    This truck already has a very stiff ride and is nothing but bare bones as far a comfort options go so I do not object to a stiff ride. Once I purchase a new rig, I will use air bags on that one for certain. I am just trying to avoid spending dough on this one when it is going to become a branch-hauling-rock-carrying-dirt-toting-garbage-dumping-hey-buddy-can-I-borrow-your-truck-to-move rig in the end anyway.
    I failed to mention in the earlier post that since my company is doing well, I will be purchasing a new(er) rig next summer.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    I'll wait on the lights for awhile anyway. You try them out and give us a report. If the fog lights don't cover wide near the truck then I won't bother with the fancy wiring. I also assumed the driving lights would be pencil thin and carry a long distance. I'm interested to hear if they really improve upon the factory high beams.

    Are you up for another trip to Hollister Hills soon? A buddy of mine has a 4x4 Dakota he has never put to the test. He had no idea that there are places like HH and now wants to give it a try. Could Dorothy go wind surfing or something during the day? I doubt she would like to hit the trails again.

    P.S. Harbor Freight is selling a 10" compound sliding miter saw for $99 including shipping. It's made in China of course but that price is a little disconcerting after what I just spent.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    You can always buy cheap tools. Don't do it. Comparing a Chinese 10" compound sliding miter saw to your DeWalt is like comparing a 72 Datsun PU to your 3/4 ton Silverado.

    "The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is gone"

    Buy the best, buy once in a lifetime.

    Let me ask Dorothy about HH, but I'm sure you are right and she is not interested - I'm up, just depends on when.

    I'm looking at going down to LA for the season finale of NHRA Drag Racing. Nothing like watching 315 mph dragsters (0-315 mph in 4.6 seconds) to get the blood moving again. November 12 is the Finals. I'm thinking of taking the week after off and going to Death Valley.

    There are some more remote places I want to visit in DV. Striped Butte, the house where Charles Manson was captured, Confidence Mill, Ashford Mill, and much more. It's not too hot in Nov, but the evenings can be cold.

    I'm ready to hit the road again.

    Mike L
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    But, I agree with you about tools. That's why I chose the DeWalt. However I love Harbor Freight because there are many things that don't need to be good quality. It's the place for those.

    Speaking of campers...

    I'll load Bertha up any weekend in Oct except the 7th. Didn't you want to go to the Los Padres (?) Forest?
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    Sounds like a good idea. I'll check with Dorothy next week. The roofers showed up today and she is busy going crazy!

    How about the weekend of 14/15 or 21/22? Any preference? The family may have something planned 21/22 since it is right after my BD. Later is not too good, I want to take the week of the 13th of November off for DV. Hopefully, this roof thing doesn't generate a whole new Honey-Do list.

    Later,

    Mike L
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    Does anyone out there sanitize their fresh water system? I've never done mine and keep thinking I should dump some bleach in there to kill any nasties. I don't have any sign of a problem so I haven't bothered but it seems like a good prevenative measure. If you do this, how much bleach do you use?
  • oltroll1oltroll1 Member Posts: 46
    I have a 22 gal water tank and put about a cup of bleach in it. Then I drive around for a while to mix it up and then drain the tank. Then I run fresh water through it until all the bleach smell and taste are gone.
  • mledtjemledtje Member Posts: 1,123
    How about the weekend of the 14th? We should have recovered from the roof by then.

    Never treated my water, however, we drink bottled water and use the tank for washing and cooking.

    Mike L
  • BrutusBrutus Member Posts: 1,113
    Each year after I dewinterize the camper, i pretty much do what oltroll does. I fill the fresh water tank about 1/2 full, add a cup of bleach and drive around for a few days. Then I drain and fill several times to get rid of any lingering bleach and antifreeze taste. I put a little nontoxic antifreeze in all of my holding tanks after I winterize.

    25 degrees this morning with a high in the mid 40s. Clear skies. We had Aurora Borealis activity early Saturday morning when I woke up around 4am. No multi-colors, just the most frequent green, but it was all over the sky and pretty bright. The days are getting shorter as we descend down from our June daylight high of 19.5 hours to our December low of around 4.5 hours.
  • vince4vince4 Member Posts: 1,268
    Yes, the 14th is it. Let's take this to e-mail.

    Vince
This discussion has been closed.