What are my options after buying Used 2008 Rav 4.

ShaneTXShaneTX Member Posts: 2
edited May 2022 in Toyota
I bought a 2008 Toyota Rav 4 with about 175,000 miles in Texas from a dealership that sells new and used cars. I bought this vehicle on an "as is basis" with no warranty. The car was inspected by an independent garage before the purchase. Everything was found to be in working condition. The dealership said the car has been checked and would pass state inspection.

I drove the Rav4 about 60 miles from the dealer immediately after purchase. The check engine light, the VSC light, and the slip indicator light lit up. The diagnostic system shows the following codes:

P0420 trouble code - Catalyst system efficiency low.
C1201 - Engine control system (ECM) Malfunction - ECM is not able to work with the Electronic Stability Control System and Anti-lock Braking System.

I have tried to contact the dealer. There is no response yet during this holiday weekend.

What are my options at this point given that I bought this vehicle on an as is basis? Is the dealer responsible in any way for selling what appears to be a defective vehicle that cannot pass state inspection? Is cancelling payment for the car an option that is open to me?

Comments

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 250,448
    ShaneTX said:

    I bought a 2008 Toyota Rav 4 with about 175,000 miles in Texas from a dealership that sells new and used cars. I bought this vehicle on an "as is basis" with no warranty. The car was inspected by an independent garage before the purchase. Everything was found to be in working condition. The dealership said the car has been checked and would pass state inspection.

    I drove the Rav4 about 60 miles from the dealer immediately after purchase. The check engine light, the VSC light, and the slip indicator light lit up. The diagnostic system shows the following codes:

    P0420 trouble code - Catalyst system efficiency low.
    C1201 - Engine control system (ECM) Malfunction - ECM is not able to work with the Electronic Stability Control System and Anti-lock Braking System.

    I have tried to contact the dealer. There is no response yet during this holiday weekend.

    What are my options at this point given that I bought this vehicle on an as is basis? Is the dealer responsible in any way for selling what appears to be a defective vehicle that cannot pass state inspection? Is cancelling payment for the car an option that is open to me?

    "As Is" means exactly what it says. I don't think you have any recourse once you've signed the paperwork and taken delivery.

    If anything, I'd take this up with the shop that performed the inspection - did you pay to have that done?

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,166
    Sure, as-is is just that, but if they intentionally hid defects, they can be held liable. It would be extremely unlikely, bordering on impossible, that the P0420 would pop for the first time that soon after a purchase. It usually takes a good 20-mile run for the car to run through it's full diagnostics on the P0420 after a reset. At 175,000 miles, catalyst efficiency issues are very common.

    However, proving that they knew or should have known about the issues is the hard part.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 23,367
    I don’t know about Texas but some states have an implied warranty of merchantability law that requires the vehicle to be able to perform it’s intended purpose, which is to pass inspection and drive. Since this one can’t without passing inspection you may have a claim against the dealer. Unfortunately, that may require a small claims action or more depending on what you paid if the dealer is unwilling to accommodate you.

    I would think a new car dealer might be worried about his reputation and be more willing to help you out. What kind of inspection did the independent do? I’d definitely get my money back there.

    Sounds like the dealer took a trade from someone who cleared the codes and then did a quick flip without actually checking anything.

    Have you gotten an estimate for repairs?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,783
    I'd think that you are out of luck unless you can prove the dealer intentionally hid a defect- and you independent inspection pretty much nullifies that line of attack.
    These types of cases occurred frequently in my Small Claims court, I can't think of one where the plaintiff prevailed.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,253

    Search on your state laws. For example, in NJ, buying a used car with under 100k miles from a dealer does allow for some protection, regardless of what the “as is” paperwork claims.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Member Posts: 8,361

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    I don’t know about Texas but some states have an implied warranty of merchantability law that requires the vehicle to be able to perform it’s intended purpose, which is to pass inspection and drive. Since this one can’t without passing inspection you may have a claim against the dealer. Unfortunately, that may require a small claims action or more depending on what you paid if the dealer is unwilling to accommodate you.

    I would think a new car dealer might be worried about his reputation and be more willing to help you out. What kind of inspection did the independent do? I’d definitely get my money back there.

    Sounds like the dealer took a trade from someone who cleared the codes and then did a quick flip without actually checking anything.

    Have you gotten an estimate for repairs?

    ————————————————
    Is it possible that a bottle of snake oil potion was used to clean the catalytic converter so that the light would go out. If that is possible the owner could do that too and rush it in for an inspection like the dealer did to get the light to go out.

    I don’t know why the buyer didn’t get the car inspected by the dealer prior to purchasing it. Over the years I know of at least a dozen people who bought a car from a dealer but demanded that the car got a new inspection before buying it. A couple guys were told the used car they were about to buy had an inspection that was still valid. Two of those guys walked when the dealer didn’t want to do a new inspection.

    And here’s the best part with one of the guys that walked:

    The dealer told him it was ILLEGAL to put a new inspection sticker on a car that already had a valid inspection sticker on it.

    Nothing validates the old saying, “buyer beware” more than buying a used car.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's.
    '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • ShaneTXShaneTX Member Posts: 2
    In response to the questions on whether I paid for the independent inspection ... the answer is yes. However, the amount paid for the inspection is peanuts compared to the vehicle. The vehicle as a 5-digit sum, compared to a 2-digit sum for the inspection.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,253

    Less than $100 for an inspection? You got what you paid for.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 23,367
    qbrozen said:

    Less than $100 for an inspection? You got what you paid for.

    If someone cleared the codes the inspector wouldn’t know what the problems were but they would know that someone had cleared them because the monitors would read not ready. That would be a real red flag to me. I guess the inspection wasn’t that detailed.

    I suppose he could try the old lacquer thinner treatment on the cat. The ECM problem might be a bad wiring connector but that could be a devil of a problem to track down.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,783

    qbrozen said:

    Less than $100 for an inspection? You got what you paid for.

    If someone cleared the codes the inspector wouldn’t know what the problems were but they would know that someone had cleared them because the monitors would read not ready. That would be a real red flag to me. I guess the inspection wasn’t that detailed.

    I suppose he could try the old lacquer thinner treatment on the cat. The ECM problem might be a bad wiring connector but that could be a devil of a problem to track down.
    Exactly- if the so-called "inspector" didn't use a good code reader the inspection was essentially worthless.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 23,367
    The poster might find this video interesting. It may not give him an answer to his legal question but might offer some insight into getting the car repaired. He may not have as many problems as he thought.

    https://youtu.be/yMmlOKZFD-M

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    Option:

    https://youtu.be/4NJmB1F2mdE

    Of course, you are responsible to know the insurance laws in your State, and I'm not a lawyer, don't even play one on TV.
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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