Subaru Outback/Legacy Brakes

adalvare

I have a 93 Subaru Legacy. I bought after it had sat for 2 years and just needed a battery. I put the battery in and it runs great, Changed the oil and checked all the other major fluids. I have only found a few problems I am hoping I can fix myself. The first is yesterday I was driving I applied the breaks and when I released them the car would not move forward I had to give it a lot of gas and I could smell the breaks smoking. I parked the car let it sit for about 2 hours then pumped the breaks and they seemed to release. I can feel them sticking a bit. also the Speedometer does not work and the rear hatch release is broken. Sorry for the long post but wanted to get all the information out there. Any help would be appreciated.

vpekulas

I'd like to have the front rotors on my 2001 Outback H6 turned since they need it badly by now. I was told by a mechanic not to do that and buy new. The reason was that it's a composite material so the rotors would not last longer then 3 month.

Is it true ? Thanks.

ateixeira

Not true, you can absolutely have them turned. They're not ceramic or anything like that, those cost as much as the whole car!

Ask for a shop that uses an on-car lathe, those get the truest surface. And be easy on them at first, you have to break them in again.

-juice

k2101

I have a 03 legacy sedan, with 56k. I had the front brake pads done at 32500 and was told that the rear brake pads should last me twice as long. I took my car in about 2 weeks ago with 56k and I had to have both the front and rear brake pads and rotors replaced. I was also told that when I had the front brakes done at 32500 that they did the rear brakes as well. By the way this was all done at the Subaru dealership were I purchased the car with 7 miles on it. I am concerned because I was able to go 32500 with my first set of pads and them resurfacing the rotors the first time and I was only ably togo a third of the milage that I did previously and the had to replace the rotors????? Does this sound right?

I was also told that my T Belt Tensioner knocks when cold and that the fan belts are starting to crack.???

Can anyone recommend a mechanic in Colorado, Denver area?

I also had to update the computer in the car??? Re-Flash, Hardstart??? I really need help!!

paisan

Well basically, when you resurface your rotors you take away material to make them smooth, this will decrease their lifespan. So getting only 1/3 more life out of them is not uncommon.

For the most part Front rotors last about 30-60k and rears about 50-80k. I never suggest resurfacing them. Pads usually last 20-40k on the Front and 40-80k on the rears.

It all depends on your driving style, traffic, etc.

-mike

xwesx

Yeah, I am certainly not going to comment on the pads/rotors ( ), but for the belts, replace them. With that mileage and age, you are going to end up with a broken belt in the not-so-distant future. If you are not opposed to replacing them yourself, it is an inexpensive and simple job. I typically replace mine every 3rd year, which is about 50-60K miles. I never had one break on the '96 Subaru, but they were always full of little lateral cracks on the groove side after the first winter due to the extreme cold. Cracking on the back (smooth) side or splitting/cracking down the length of the belt is bad. If you lose the alternator belt, you also lose power steering, which makes the car a beast to drive (to put it mildly!). Without a spare on hand and the ability to change it, your drive time is limited to the amount of stored battery power on hand... maybe 30 miles? Consider belts cheap maintenance.

k2101

I live in Colorado and wanted to know if anyone can recommend a goof mechanic for a subaru????? Please help. I need to take the legacy in soon for the T Belt tensioner that is knocking>>>>

xwesx

Hahahaha.... I am not sure I would want a "goof mechanic" working on my car, but if the price is right..... :P

paisan

I'd say you need to rebuild the calipers or at the least get them off and re-grease the sliders so that they retract.

-mike

adalvare

Thanks Mike,

Do you think I could take it to my Mechanic and ask him to grease the sliders without sounding like an idiot? Any recomendations would be great.

paisan

Yeah he should know exactly what you mean when you ask him to grease the sliders, if he doesn't, never return to that mechanic!

-mike

adalvare

I am taking it over tomorrow. Do you know anything about the Speedometer or the rear hatch. I think if I can get the hatch open I should be able to replace the handle. As for the speedometer, The previous owner said he never had and issue. Could sitting for 2 years have caused this?

paisan

Not sure on the speedo, sitting for years could have siezed up the cable for the speedo, as it needs to move to be lubricated.

-mike

fibber2

Could also be a master cylinder / vacuum booster issue. Had that once on a Ford truck. Did the pedal stay low after you pressed it? I used to have to pull mine up with my toe to get the brakes to release.

Steve

paisan

It's possible, but more likely after sitting the sliders are not lubricated.

-mike

fibber2

Agree. Just gave him somewhere else to look first before taking it in for service. You had already covered the most likely, I gave him a secondary item to check. Tag team diagnosis...

Steve

paisan

Excellent! Another thing you should do regardless is fully flush the brake system as the fluid is hydroscopic and only has a 2 year life span whether it is being used or sitting. It will absorb moisture and be very mushy.

-mike

lucien2

+1 on that recommendation. And upgrade to DOT 4 fluid while you're at it.

And please, pretty please OP, they are called "brakes," not "breaks."

fibber2

Ah, give him a brake, oops, I mean break!

ateixeira

Yes, flush the fluid, too. Just do a general brake service.

-juice

xwesx

No, though I will say that I had a similar problem with my '96 Subaru, intermittently, for the last 3 winters. The fluid did not seem to be the problem, as I changed it out after the first winter of problems and it had the same problems the next winter. It only showed up during temperatures colder than -15 to -20F (which are relatively common here), but was rather unnerving because there was no predictability or warning. You just approach a stop situation, go to depress the pedal, and it is locked up tight as a drum. I would press on it and press on it to no avail, but then it would usually "release" and work perfectly fine after that.

If you do find a solution, please pass it on!

paisan

Frozen line would be my diagnosis. 14 months is a short time but it could have absorbed moisture and frozen. By standing on the pedal you broke up the frozen section. I'd have the brakes flushed.

Also I hate to break it to you but my guess is that when you had then "flushed" 14 months ago, the place that did it only bled them and didn't flush em. 95% of the places don't flush, they bleed which doesn't help much.

-mike

fibber2

Sounds scary.... IIRC, there was a service advisory or maybe limited recall for something like this back in the mid/late '90's. I think it was related to a bad batch of valves in the vacuum booster freezing up and not channeling pressure properly to aid the pedal action. Leg pressure then goes up 3-4x in order to get the same stopping power. Being close to the engine, it warms up quickly and releases.

You are not the first one to report a situation like this. It appeared on this board some time past. And someone who used to work in my building told me this happened to him one cold morning when he drove his son's '00 or '01 OBW. If I can figure out who it was, I'll try and contact him for details.

Steve

legacy_gt_dc

We've had two cold mornings in Wash DC, with the temperature about 9 F when I try to leave for work.

On both days, my brake pedal wouldn't respond for the first few minutes of operation. I would stand on it, and it wouldn't budge. The sensation was different from a loss of power steering - when that happens, standing on the pedal eventually engages the brake. On both occasions, the problem cleared about 1 minute after I noticed it.

I've had the brake fluid replaced as per Subaru maintenance schedule, and the fluid that is in the car now is 14 months old.

If there were water in the brake line that froze, it seems like that this problem wouldn't clear in 1 minute.

The dealer wasn't particularly helpful. "Bring it in and we'll look at it, anything might be wrong". 10F mornings are a rarity in Wash DC, so I doubt an average quality inspection would reveal much.

Any ideas?

ateixeira

My Forester was affected by that recall, so they swapped out my brake master cylinder.

Thing is, it was only an issue at something like 55 degrees F below the freezing mark. I did it anyway, though.

-juice

bailey21

I was told that due to the configuration of the brake system on the Subarus, that turning the rotors could become a serious safety problem as it would change the configuration. I would check the owners manual or call a certified Subaru Tech. I changed mine myself and had no problems, only with the price of the new rotors.

ateixeira

Whoever told you that was not well informed. Subaru dealers turn rotors all the time. On of my friends who works at SoA was even telling me the story about how they trained her on how to use an on-car lathe.

So you can absolutely have Subaru rotors turned, in fact any Subaru dealer will gladly do the job for you.

-juice

snowbelter

Just be aware that not all Subaru dealers use the on the wheel lathe. I know mine does not.

paisan

Turning rotors removes material. By removing material you remove heat-sink ability of the rotors and therfore they will likely warp quicker after having them turned. Generally I never suggest turning rotors as it's a waste of time and money, you are better off buying a set of Mountain Rotors and putting them on as a complete replacement rather than turning the ones on the car.

-mike

truckinpc

I have a 2001 Outback Wagon, LL Bean edition. It currently has 119,000 miles and just this past weekend the ABS light comes on and does not go off when driving. According to the Owners manual we still have conventional brakes but have not been in a situation to prove it. Any suggestions on how to check or fix this ABS light?
Thanks.

paisan

Could be several issues causing the ABS light to go on. Most common on that era of Subarus is a bad sensor or more likely a bad tone-ring on one of your hubs. Depending on how badly you think you need ABS will determine how much you want to spend to fix it. It's usually fairly expensive to track down and fix such problems on 100k+ car it may not be worth it.

-mike

meg4

My 2005 Outback has 13k miles. Ever since I bought the car, the brakes make a clunking sound when applied...not all the time, but it's a concern. Three times the dealer said they could not duplicate the noise but last visit (6/25/07) the Svc Mgr said he heard it and wrote "tech confirmed a click in front when backing up and braking and foward and braking caused by PAD SHIFTING...not a safety issue.

This is my 8th car and I NEVER heard of such a thing. HELP!
Meggie

smallv

Congratulations, your brakes are now far better than the day you purchased your car. Subaru's without ABS are much safer that Subaru's with ABS. I disconnected my 1995 legacy ABS within a week of purchasing it. Several slow speed near death experiences coasting into intersections on Icy roads convinced me that ABS brakes are a death sentence. You won't notice the difference as much on dry pavement but on a slippery road, ABS virtually eliminates the deceleration that you expect from your brakes. Pull the emergency brake and you stop instantly. ABS brakes increase stopping distances on all surfaces. Its a fact.

With the ABS relay removed, I enjoyed 12 years of braking perfection. Don't be concerned about the yellow light on your dash. Just pull out the ABS relay to complete the task that nature has started for you. For more info on ABS brakes, feel free to read the following post.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20999592#post20999592

paisan

I'm going to have to disagree with you. While ABS is certain very limited situations may increase stopping distance, the fact that you can steer while braking is very very advantageous. Of course a 1995 ABS system is not the benchmark of a 2008 brake system. But even in my 1994 Legacy Racecar, we continue to keep the ABS engaged as it gives us a racing advantage!

If you are following too closely and/or have poor tires, yeah ABS will be a detriment, but if you have distance to steer you'll be happy you had ABS because you can steer while full force braking.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

altitudemama

I own a 99 Subaru Outback with 111,000 miles on it. I bought it used 5 years ago with 60,000 miles on it. It's automatic. It's been a gem til last fall, when I started to notice that, when braking while descending a steep hill (I live in an area with a lot of mountain passes, and sometimes the freeway grades are 5-7%), the brakes would grab, and the car would downshift to a lower gear, and then stay 'stuck' in this lower gear for a while (minute or two?), even if I took my foot off the brake and began to accelerate. This, or course, caused the RPM's to rev up too. Someone suggested a transmission problem, so I took it to a transmission place who said my trans was filthy and they flushed it. Thereafter, the problem seemed to subside (though I was never convinced that the two were related... but what do I know about cars!!?!) Alas, 10 months later, and the problem is back again. My mechanic is baffled. Any ideas?

pilot1226

I'd be curious as to whether or not your local tech filled the transmission fluid with the one Subaru says in the owner's manual rather than a generic one.

akg

I have just noticed that when I put on the brakes going fast, particularly going fast downhill (50+mph or so), like when I need to brake getting off of the freeway or even on the freeway, my car shimmies...sometimes pretty bad. I just had my tires rotated, but I think I may have noticed it before that. I live very rurally, so before I haul the Subie (an automatic, by the way) the 70 miles to the dealership, I thought I'd ask one of you. Thanks!

pilot1226

To me, this sounds like brake jutter.

1. When did you last replace your brake pads? Did you replace the rotors, or refinish (cut/machine/etc) them?

Rotors will warp if they get too hot which leads to an uneven braking surface - this is the jutter that you feel only when you step on the brakes. If you've machined your rotors - which I don't recommend - you're taking the rotor and making it thinner, which is not able to withstand as much heat. You'll also not get the same life span out of a machined rotor compared to the new ones.

On my Honda, I got brakes at Meineke a few years ago and was asked if I wanted new rotors (40/axle) or to have them machined (30/axle). I recommend new, always.

akg

Thank you so much for helping me with this! It was the rotors in the front and I had them dealt with. Thank you again!

paisan

Rotors will warp if they get too hot which leads to an uneven braking surface - this is the jutter that you feel only when you step on the brakes. If you've machined your rotors - which I don't recommend - you're taking the rotor and making it thinner, which is not able to withstand as much heat. You'll also not get the same life span out of a machined rotor compared to the new ones.

Very rarely do rotors warp on cars these days. They usually get pad material deposits in them and this causes a feeling of being warped. To clear them re-bed your brakes (several 60mph to 5mph runs and then let cool) and this should clear the pad material from the microcracks in the rotors.

I agree never to have rotors machined, it's always better to replace the rotors.

-mike

eberglund

I was recently given a 2000 Subaru Outback wagon by my father. I've had older subi's (80 and 92) and have had wonderful luck with them, however this one is having some issues. This car only has 65K miles on it and my dad has replaced the front brakes 2 times! He tried to figure out what the problem was since it was not usual to replace them at such low miles, but never determined the cause. The last time he replaced the brakes was about 5K miles ago and he used the most expensive ceramic brake pads he could buy, and now i don't recall if he turned the rotors or replaced them. What is happening now is a grinding sound (similar to when your brakes need to be replaced) every time I use the brakes. It seems i also hear some noise even when I'm not using the brakes. I've searched the internet and cannot seem to find anyone else with this problem. If anyone knows what could be causing this problem, please help!

grvdgrz

Since your front brakes are wearing out quickly it would appear that they are doing all the work of stopping the car. I would have a pro look at the rear brakes and check and see if they are performing. Especially the rear caliper pins and the brake hoses. The front hoses can and do fail causing the brakes to be applied slightly even with your foot off the brake pedal.Same with the back, only the effect is to reduce the amount of braking force applied in the rear thereby causing the fronts to wear more quickly. HTH.

paisan

Generally on subies now you go through pads every 30k miles and rotors ever 60-80k miles.

With that said, you could have a siezed or not very well sliding front caliper pin and this is dragging a pad wearing it down. This is common, especially if your dad didn't drive it often.

-mike

eberglund

Thankyou so much for the great info! That was far more than i learned from calling a local mechanic and subaru dealer. I will definitely find a good mechanic and pass this on. Thanks again, ekb

ateixeira

Pads are so cheap, it shouldn't be a big concern. I think my dad got some for his Outback for $22 for the fronts, something like that. I put 'em on with my sister in an hour or so, bled the brakes, voila.

Pads for my Miata cost just $17, LOL.

eberglund

Revision to my original post #44. Thanks everyone for great suggestions! I did talk with my dad and get a little more info on the history of the brake problems on this subi. This car has 65K miles on it now (see posting #44).
1. The first time my pops had problems (not sure mileage) one pad on one rear wheel was worn out, the other ok... and on the opposite side of car, one front pad was worn way more than its mate. He said he has always removed the pins, cleaned them and relubed them. However, they never seemed to be stuck so he could never explain the weird wear issues.
2. At 43K miles the REAR brakes were replaced.
3. At 61K miles the FRONT brakes were replaced and NEW rotors.
4. Now at 65K miles the brakes are making a terrible grinding noise as if they are totally worn out. My hubby swears it is the rear DS brake making all the noise. It is really hard to tell inside the car as i thought it was the front drivers side.

I will be taking this in to our mechanic next week but thought i'd revise this post in the meantime in case anyone has ever had weird issues like this. Not to mention hopefully steering the mechanic in a certain direction to save some $. Thankyou ahead of time for your replies!

pathtomax

I had my front brakes fully replaced around 5,000 miles ago. They replaced the rotors, pads... pretty much everything considering I have 120k miles. They have been squeaking pretty much since they replaced them. I brought the car back and, of course, the technician heard nothing. My neighbors, friends and everyone else hears them, but never the technicians

It usually occurs RIGHT when I hit the brakes and as I push further in, it goes quiet.
Any ideas? Is it OK that they squeak?

paisan

They probably used cheap pads or didn't put the shims in properly. I use the Hawk HPs Pads and they come with a built in anti-squeel shim. Old shims re-used can also cause squeeling.

-mike

pathtomax

Does this noise have any effect on the durability / rotor wear & tear?

paisan

Nope, it's just annoying.

-mike

eberglund

Reply to my own posting #49:

I had my mechanic check out my brakes and it turns out this grinding noise was from rust on the rear rotors (this car came from MN). He showed me the rust and it was substantial, and he verified the noise by spinning the rotor. He said not to do anything about it... drive until they need to be replaced and then do pads and rotors.