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Toyota 4Runner



  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    Is it possible the fan is on backwards ? Trying to blow against the air coming in across the engine at speed may take a few HP.
  • 4burb4burb Posts: 55
    I got a price quote for my 00 4Runner from the dealership. 7yr/100K Plat for $1020 I seem to recall. Took that quote to my local dealer where it is serviced and they sold it to me for the same price. You might try that with your local dealer.
  • coranchercorancher Posts: 232
    I don't know if that's possible, but I think it's highly unlikely. Easy to check for it, though, just by looking under the hood and watching which way the engine turns.

    After talking with a friend I have refined my guess as to what's going on. Here's my scenario: The fan doesn't draw more than 1 HP or so, but the A/C compressor can draw something like 5-15 peak. On a hot day you've got the extra load of the compressor and an increased tendency (because of hotter air coming in to mix with the fuel) for knock. The lower the fuel octane, the worse this will be. So the engine computer is detecting the beginnings of knock and retarding timing, making the engine produce significantly less power and torque for a given throttle opening and RPM. To get the power you need, you have to push the pedal down significantly more, and the computer needs to shift the transmission down a gear and use higher RPMs to get the needed torque at the driving wheels. Under this scenario your behavior would qualify as "normal," and you would still have almost all of your normal horsepower, especially if you burn premium.

    This would explain a significant apparent "softness" in throttle response and selection of a lower gear, but only a modest decrease in peak HP. I don't recall if your experience was of this softness and lower gear selection, or whether you were really way down on peak horsepower, even if you were willing to use all of the throttle.

    In any case, it looks like a tough thing to understand without data logging.

    Thanks for putting up with my speculation. Anybody else got theories to advance?
  • rentschlrentschl Posts: 69

    My feeling was also: how could the fan take so much power? Although an other poster mentioned something about having a viscous fan clutch fail on a GM SUV in a mode that it was always locked. He said that it took a huge amount of power away.

    One thing I should have mentioned: the dealer hooked up the OBD II and it appeared that everything was fine on my 4Runner (as far as everything it reports/logs).

    The other thing is that the sound of that fan spinning faster than normal is very distinct and correlates perfectly with the loss-of-power condition. When I hear the fan, I have the loss of power in all cases and visa versa.

    However I don't want to fall into the trap of jumping to conclusions either.

    I talked a little about what gets logged by the computer with the mechanic. He seemed to think that if there were anything wrong with the engine managment that something would have been logged and shown up.

    As far as the bad gas theory, I haven't been able to change the vehicle's behavior through many tanks of gas (both 87 and 91 octane) from various different gas stations on the CO Front Range.

    As far as why the clutch seems more locked when you start up, your "fluid settling" theory sounds plausable.

    As far as the "fan in backwards" idea, I know it's going the right way in my case. Also, if a fan could be put in backwards, it would still blow in the correct direction anyway; the blades would just be curved such that the leading edge was convex instead of concave, causing a reduction in efficiency.

    I wish I could get this all figured out and fixed so I could quit obsessing over it.

    In the mean time it's very helpful to get everyone's ideas/opinions from this forum.

  • The hole is slightly back and left of the tracking the sunroof rolls back and forth on. If you look at this location on the driver's side you'll see a bolt, which isn't on the passenger's side. There is however an opening for one, like it was left out on purpose. (I checked 6 other 4Runners at my dealer and they all were the same way.) The structure that affixes the sunroof assembly to the roof is the same color as the body. After almost two weeks my rattle returned, in a much less fashion I presume because the vinyl stripes worked loose over time. I'm going to insert a bolt/nut combination into the opening over the weekend to see if I can't make the "wedge" between the rail assembly and the mount structure more permanent.
  • kjack100kjack100 Posts: 133
    Sorry that I got that confused. That would be disconcerting if you got into your serviced vehicle and the seat back was reclined more than when you left it. Makes me think of the parking attendants in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off".
  • moloconomolocono Posts: 16
    Is it possible that Toyota might end up offering a rebate on SR5 4Runners equipped with the Appearance Package?
  • zeus258zeus258 Posts: 15
    Has anyone seen an 04 picture yet? I have no clue about how the new grill looks like.

    Is it wise to wait for the 04 to appear in order to get a better 03 price or won't it make any difference besides a lower APR?
  • steveb84steveb84 Posts: 187
    In the Chicago Region, we have a $1000 or low APR on ALL 4Runners.

    I don't expect the front grill to change for the 04's.
  • rentschlrentschl Posts: 69

    You post caught my eye on the new grill.

    If they did change the grill for '04 I wonder what their motivation was. Maybe it is associated with getting more airflow through the radiator. I'm speculating around my issue with "power loss with the fan kicking in".

    Thoughts/comments from anyone???

  • zeus258zeus258 Posts: 15
    Build started first of August with shipment from Japan starting first of September. Should be in the dealerships in the middle of September.

    Changes for '04:
    Colors red and green are dropped
    Charcoal seat on SE changed to stone
    Color white now available on the Limited
    3rd row seat for the SR5 and Limited, not SE
    All cladding is now color keyed to car color.

    The SE things:
    Sport Package
    (NH) X-REAS Shock Absorber
    Silver Radiator Grille
    Silver Door Handle/Rear License plate garnish
    Color Keyed Heated Outside Mirrors
  • vodgutvodgut Posts: 162
    My guess is that the grille change for '04 is cosmetic. I think there's something else wrong with your vehicle with loss of power. Being in CO, too, with a V8 4Runner, I haven't noticed any loss of power on these hot days. Just a lot of extra fan noise.
  • The dashboard in my 2003 4runner has some spots that are less glossy than others. This is on the main dashboard area. I've used Armor All, but it still looks different in this one spot (wish I'd noticed it before buying). Really only noticeable at an angle. Anyone else see this on theirs? Thanks! Sorry. This is a re-post, but I can't find my other posting.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    It has silicon inside it. This makes the surface shine and look new. It also acts as a magnifier for UV rays so it drys out and cracks dashes and promotes dry rot in rubber. Also it ATTRACTS dust. Last, the stuff is almost impossible to remove. To get it off you need to get a pile of cotton rags. Apply silicon remover to one, wipe it on the panel once in one direction. Throw it away and repeat with the next towel until its all removed. If you don't, you'll just move it around and not remove it. It will stay on for the life of the car with ONE application until removed with the above procedure. Scrubbing a panel with something like a green scrubby pad will only drive it further into the surface and make it nearly impossible to remove. If you are going to use a vinyl cleaner for the dash, etc. use one that has no silicon and has UV protectors in it, like wipes available from Mothers. A lot of people use Pledge with great success.
  • rogers12rogers12 Posts: 140
    The post about ArmorAll has enough falacies in it to hint of an Urban Legend. There is no way that silicone oil can magnify UV rays. At worst, it can absorb them. Many clear liquids absorb UV rays at some wavelength without any deleterious effect.

    Also, I have had ArmorAll on my tires for as long as I can remember (at least 10 years) and the side walls last as long as the tread without any sign of dry rot.

    I will not make any claims that ArmorAll is good for anything except shine, but it harms nothing. If silicone harmed rubber, silicone grease would not be used as a lubricant for rubber bushings.
  • Thanks Joebriun for the detailed description of the location of the oil filter and advise for the removal of the front skid plate and oil plug access door. I received more information on the I-force 4.7 V8 engine on this board, the V8 is a interference engine and my understanding of this is if the timing belt should break, the pistons will contact the intake/exhaust valves which in turn creates a rather large repair bill. Noninterference engine is just the opposite, the timing belt breaks which drives the cam shafts in turn times the intake and exhaust valve strokes with the pistons, no matter what position the valves are in, the pistons will not make contact with the valves.

    <<The oil filter is underneath on the driver's side. You have to take off the front metal skid plate (there are two of them, 4 bolts each). I took off the second skid plate in order to get to the drain plug, then found the plastic door on the second skid plate, so you can get to the drain plug without removing the second skid plate. Don't know what a noninterference engine is, so can't help you there.>>
  • peter78peter78 Posts: 284
    That's interesting, I would of thought that the V6 would be more likely to be a interference engine. You are right you do not want to have the timing belt break when you have a interference engine.

    Here is a picture to better show a interference and non-interference engine. 4
  • Picked up a Sport V8 4x4 yesterday and drove 300 miles today. Impressions:

    On the way up north I tried to vary my speed for break-in, but only 200RPM changed the speed by 10-12MPH in top gear. Before heading back I thought about the drive up and concluded that it was a smooth vehicle, but no match for the adrenal in my wife's Audi A6 2.7 biturbo produces. I also decided to do whatever it took to vary the RPM by forcing shifts on the way home(the heck with the gas mileage for now, FYI got 17MPG measured on the first 300 miles).

    WOW, what a difference. It's a rocket and gives me very nearly the same uber-alles feeling that I get in the A6. The adaptive transmission nearly reads your mind and after a while you can make it shift almost when you want. The drive train combined with the X-Res really makes it interesting to drive on the highway, Can't wait to try some off-road driving. All in all a very unique, supremely versatile vehicle.

    BTW many thanks to the 4Runner/Porsche Trailer poster who thought X-Reas was great and deserved a careful comparison test (with/without, same engine, a V8). Initially I couldn't tell much difference so I was going to buy the cheaper SR-5. After my own with/without test I sprang for the Sport Edition. Sure glad I did and I'm also glad I got the V8 with it's terrific new transmission and full time 4 wheel.

    Hope this helps other performance oriented drivers make a good choice. If only the steering was a bit quicker in the SE, I'll bet it could nearly become a cult performance car.

    BTW2 The runner up to the 4Runner for me was the Mitsubishi Evolution believe it or not. Ultimately the practical advantages of an auto xmission won me over, but boy was a close call, the Evo is amazing. After today's drive I'm pretty sure I made the right choice. Seems I got some very interesting performance in a practical, versatile package.
  • sivi1sivi1 Posts: 82
    i have used armor all on my 94 mbenz and my 95 maxima since i bought the cars new. both dashes look like new and there are no cracks. please explain your expertise?
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    A friend of mine owns a detail shop and you won't find a bottle of Armor All anywhere in the building, it's the last thing they would use he says. FIND me ANY professional detail shop that uses Armor All on dashboards, especially shops who deal in luxury or show cars. Search the internet for detail shops and you'll find every product used for interiors EXCEPT Armor All.

    There is no question that it attracts dust, one of its major drawbacks. Who wants a product that attracts dust to the interior of their cars? Who wants a product that make their dashboards overly GLOSSY, inviting glare from the windshield? It is greasy and difficult to remove. Do you want dirt sticking to your tires after you shine them? No thanks, I'll stick to products that are proven to be much much better.

    Show me a list of professional detailers that use and/or recommend Armor All for dashboards, I bet it will be tough to find ANY at all. Check out some of the Detailing message boards and see how many people use that product. Look through auto enthusiast boards and see how many people complain about dashboards that brown and other problems from using it. I see NO REASON at all to use a product such as Armor All when their are BETTER products out there.
  • Thanks for the info on Armor All. I've never had issues with it damaging anything (on my Mazda MX-6), but there seem to be better option. NOW, back to the ranch, has anyone noticed a slight variation in their 4Runner dashboard finish? This one section on mine over by the passenger just sounds diferent when I rub my hand across it, and from an angle it looks less glossy. A shining agent will not fix it. Can the dealer "buff" the dash in thi splace to be more like the rest?
  • Just for comparison of the 1998 V6 4wd Ltd and 2003 V8 4wd Ltd, IMO.

    2003 pro:
    great handling.
    smother over road bumps.
    larger interior and exterior.
    larger fuel tank 23 verses 18 gallons.
    finally hood actuator and not a prop rod.
    rear seat arm rest.
    115v AC outlet.
    garage door opener.
    eye glass compartment.
    softer leather seats.
    front seats has more lumbar support.
    side air bags & curtain.
    close to selling price of 1998.
    MPG/distance display.
    compass & auto dimming rear mirror.
    filtered interior air.
    4 wheel disc brakes.
    power assisted rear door latch opener/closer.
    running board lights? (not much of a factor)
    No power antenna.
    standard equipment, full tank of gas.
    standard equipment alarm and remote doors opener.
    Toyota nation customer service representatives.

    2003 con:
    low electric window switches.
    all time 4 wd.
    lower front seat head room.
    3 pod design dash.
    recommended 91 octane fuel.

    Wish list:
    oil pressure & battery voltage gauges.
    get rid of the port distributor option/charges.
    improved sales experience.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    2003 con:
    all time 4 wd.

    Full-time 4WD is one of the best features of the new 4Runner, IMO.

  • coranchercorancher Posts: 232
    Seems like we've got a case of the frequent confusion between silicon (an element that's a principal component of sand and glass and microchips) and silicone (a rubber compound). Keeping them straight will help you search for information on the right one.

    If you search discussions in "maintenance and repair" you'll get a variety of opinions. There have been quite a few reports that the Armor All formulations of some years back would produce a shiny, slick surface, and that the protective effects were nil or negative. Many claim that the current formulation is significantly improved, but not the best protectant out there.

    One of the best-liked protectants for rubber, vinyl, fiberglass, etc. is 303. I believe its full name is 303 aerospace protectant or something like that. I've had good luck with it, and it can even out the appearance of a vinyl dash without addng too much gloss. The site for this product describes (their claims anyway) the protective mechanisms, including absorbing UV in a sacrifical way.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    I like 303 but am going to try the Vinylex stuff from Lexol when I run across it.

    303 is a bit hard to find - whitewater shops will have it (used on drysuit gaskets), and spa shops often have it for maintaining hot tub vinyl covers. I don't think I've ever seen it in auto parts stores around here.

    Steve, Host
  • rogers12rogers12 Posts: 140
    No problem finding it with a Google search.

    BTW, the cracking in rubber tires (dry rot) has been most often blamed on ozone. Tires are not subject to UV degradation owing to the carbon black in the rubber.
  • terrafirmaterrafirma Posts: 212
    The slight color variation and sound difference in the passenger side dash maybe from the airbag underneath.
    That portion of the dash is molded thinner and plyable for the passenger airbag to come out of. This might be the cause although I have not noticed it in mine. I can hear the difference when tapping on the dash when I get to the airbag.

    If you notice, Toyota has made the dash totally seamless and intergrated the airbag into the dash without the ugly hole with plastic plate covering or molded lines in the material.
  • sivi1sivi1 Posts: 82
    i would still like to know why my 10 and 9 year dashes are not falling apart because of this "junk armor all" and not a bunch of mish mash about your buddy who details cars! a mbenz rep asked "who detailed my benz",and i told him i did.
  • terrafirmaterrafirma Posts: 212
    It has silicon inside it. This makes the surface shine and look new. It also acts as a magnifier for UV rays so it drys out and cracks dashes and promotes dry rot in rubber. Also it ATTRACTS dust. Last, the stuff is almost impossible to remove."

    This is all crapola unless it can be substantiated. I don't like the shine so I don't use ArmorAll but I've never heard of it causing damage.
    As for attracting dust, the rubbing action causes that. Same as when you wax your car, the friction causes the attraction.
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