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Jeep Wrangler



  • Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine also have many miles of dirt roads. Most are on standard maps and are still used by anyone getting from point A to point B. Connecticuts dirt roads are few in number and most are restricted. Too bad-I love driving dirt roads during any season. Enjoy California. I used to visit friends in Hement and Idlewild. Lots of good Jeep country up there but that was in the 70's. Probably changed by now. Go Easy, John
  • gman1259gman1259 Posts: 209
    I do not live too far from either of those places. And I can tell you if you have not been there since the 70’s you probably would not recognize them due to the amount of building in Riverside County. When I moved to Corona it was to get away from the people in Orange County. I had open fields around me. After almost 12 years the open fields near me are gone. I have homes, shopping centers, golf courses and even a new fire station / police substation near me now. There are sill places to go in a Jeep, buy you have drive a little further.

  • Looks like you about bit the big one there! Glad to see you drove out of it and didn't leave anything in Thelma!.

  • OK. Longer explanation. Reflushed the system, including a flush of just the heater core and hoses, also a reverse flush through the h/c inlet hose back thru the water pump and out the bottom rad hose. Re-filled and tried my best to make sure everything was properly "burped"; no heat. I traced the cable from the temp control slider to what appears to be a mechanical connection to the blend valve (don't see evidence of a stepper, but maybe I need the FSM I ordered). It seems to be functioning unless there's some breakage inside the whole duct area with the actual blender valve. Thinking I'm just inept at refilling and burping the system, I also took it to a shop and had it re-flushed and re-filled by professionals. Still no heat. (I can only imagine it's pretty darned clean inside, though!)

    As far as the cooling performance of the system, it seems to be working great. The new rad does let everything run a little cooler than the old OEM one, but not so cool to make me think the thermostat's stuck open (which is a new one). I think it's either a broken "flapper" inside the blend valve or perhaps some trapped air still in the heater core or lines which no one has been able to burp out. I guess I'm looking for some "eureka" event from Mac or someone based on my synopsis. Sorry it's taking me so long! On the other hand, Tom asked me to report back, and this a great group of Jeepers, so....?

    Any ideas? (I really prefer to resolve this on "my own" with your help!) I know the dealers' kids gotta eat too, but there's this whole concept of the Wrangler being a simple vehicle and all..... Thanks!
  • I have a '97 Wrangler and have a problem with the air outtake for the windshield defroster. Air is being circulated but not coming out of the top. Has anyone had this problem and know of any remedies. Someone told me the "lid" to redirect the flow up is stuck in the closed position. Can a dealer fix this and how much?

  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Ok, so you have a '97 or '98, which are the only models that use a cable rather than a motor to move the blend door (it's an actual door or flap, not a valve). Just because the cable moves the lever on the outside of the heater housing, doesn't mean the blend door is moving on the inside.

    If both heater hoses are getting hot then the heater core must be hot, therefore the problem is that air isn't being sent through the heater core. The most likely cause is that the blend door isn't functioning, but I guess there might be a dead possum in there. I think a blend door malfunction would head my list though.

    Good luck!
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Yes, the door or flap that directs the air isn't moving. It could be broken inside the heater housing, or it could be a control issue outside the housing, which would be easier and cheaper to fix. Yes, a dealer could fix it, and the cost could be anything from $0 upwards, depending on whether a control arm needs to be snapped back in place, or if a whole new heater housing is required.
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    I'd suggest it could be either a defective t-stat (I've had 2 new ones that were "bad" over the years) or possibly a bad/plugged water pump since I didnt' see a separate heater control valve coming off the cooling system (although it's mentioned in the troubleshooting below).

    If your radiator hoses and hoses going to the heater core aren't getting hot, you can either test or replace the tstat to see if the problem moves in the system. Here are the troubleshooting items I found for no or poor heater performance.

    1 . Has a diagnostic trouble
    code (DTC) number 17 been
    2. Coolant level low.
    3. Obstructions in heater hose
    fittings at engine .
    4. Heater hose kinked.
    5. Some models with certain
    engines are equipped with a
    water control valve located on
    one of the heater hoses . This
    valve maybe defective.
    6. Water pump is not pumping
    water to heater core. When
    the engine is fully warmed up,
    both heater hoses should be
    hot to the touch. If only one of
    the hoses is hot, the water
    pump may not be operating
    correctly. The accessory drive
    belt may also be slipping
    causing poor water pump
    operation .

    1 . Refer to On-Board Diagnostics in the
    manual text and replace thermostat if
    2. Refer to Testing Cooling System for
    Leaks in the manual text. Repair as
    3. Remove heater hoses at both ends and
    check for obstructions. Repair as
    4. Locate kinked area and repair as
    5. Refer to Group 24, Heating and Air
    Conditioning for diagnosis . Repair as
    6. Refer to Water Pumps in this group.
    Repair as necessary. If a slipping belt is
    detected, refer to Engine Accessory Drive
    Belts in this group. Repair as necessary.

    Sorry to hear about your problems and I'm sure you'll track it down soon (through process of elimination if nothing else :-) )

  • Just had my dealership call and tell me they just received 3 of them in today. I will try to go by tonight or mabye tomorrow to test drive one. Hopefully he knows what he is talking about and they are still on the lot to test.

  • mcrrtmcrrt Posts: 93
    I'm sitting on an off-ramp this morning waiting to turn and I get rear-ended (pretty hard-my neck's sore) by some twerp in an old Cavalier sedan. I wasn't even all that mad; I just motioned them to follow me up the road, and then signaled them to follow me in to a gas station...they kept on going past the station! I got their tag number, so hopefully the police will find them (shouldn't be hard to spot a blue early 90's Cavalier with a now SQUASHED bumper and shattered headlight!). No real visible damage to my Unlimited, though; small scuff on the bumper, and the tailgate appears to be a little out of alignment now (I'm guessing they bounced off my spare tire). Unbelievable, my Jeep's still a week shy of it's 6 month birthday. Oh well, I figure even if the police don't catch the guy, his Cav got hurt a LOT worse than my Jeep did, so that seems only fair. Hopefully the rest of the day won't be a downhill slide from here.

    Yup, I hugged my Jeep today (it saved my a$$!)

  • i'm sure the dealership cost to replace that "badly damaged" rear bumper would be just about right to buy a nice aftermarket bumper,,,
  • mcrrtmcrrt Posts: 93

    New aftermarket bumper, hmmm...(slyly rubbing chin).

  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    That's not good. Glad to hear you weren't badly injured, but you might want to get yourself checked out in the next couple of days all the same.

    You might also want to check out the tailgate more thoroughly. It's quite common for it to be badly damaged after the spare takes a hit, it just doesn't show until you take the wheel off.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Another nice reason for body armor - go ahead hit my 3/16" inch steel with your plastic and fiberglass body! :)

    Glad you are okay, but like mac said, get yourself checked to make sure all is good. Those neck injuries have a way of coming back to really hurt if you're not careful.

  • mcrrtmcrrt Posts: 93

    You're right, I suppose it could be kinda caved in behind the spare...I'll have to pull it this weekend and take a look. I've already got an appointment to go to a claim center on Monday to get it evaluated. Even if my tailgate's toast, I still made out way better than that Cavalier did! ;-)

  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    I had decided to have the toe-in set and just live with my bent tie rod for a while.

    When they got the weight off the front end to do the alignment, the guy grabbed the left front tire and shook it. There was a BIG TIME wobble, which means the hub bearing is shot. The bearing is integral to the hub assembly, so no such thing as just changing out a bearing: the whole unit must be replaced.

    Guess how much that part lists for? I checked with the DC dealer that I do business with, and the parts guy said the list price was $305!!!! The Autozone price was $329. I always get a discount at the dealership, and the parts guy told me I could get the part for $225. I told him to go for it, but he has to get it in from a warehouse in St. Louis. Might have it as early as Tuesday.

    I'm not going to whine about the part failure, after all the miles Thelma Jane has seen on the trails. She Jane is only four years old and has only been off roaded during the last three years. I go virtually every Saturday, so Thelma Jane has as many trail miles on her as most ten or fifteen year old Jeeps!

    I stay out of mud and water whenever I can, but it cannot be totally avoided at Turkey Bay. I'm sure water and mud have a lot to do with that bearing failure.

    It was so nice of that parts guy to discount the part that much for me. It's not like I buy thousands of dollars worth of parts or anything.

    You see so many negative posts about car dealerships, but I have been well treated at two or three different places. It's just a matter of establishing a good relationship. If you go in with a chip on your shoulder, you are probably not going to be given the best of treatment.


    Have you hugged your Jeep lately?
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    Definitely see someone. While whiplash can be just a minor pain in the neck, it can also be something worse.

    One of the reasons I called my '98 Sport my Noble Black Steed is that something along those lines happened when he was about 6 months old. My other half was calmly driving, minding our own business in the carpool lane. A compact pickup tried to change into our lane right in front of us - I'm sure he didn't look. The Jeep climbed the curve on the wall (I thought we would roll but we didn't - my other half did a great job of keeping the wheels straight) and we scraped both the wall as well as the pickup. We drove away while the other guy had to wait for a tow truck (of course, the other guy's insurance ended up having to pay over $4,000 repairs - all of it just body work). Wranglers are very tough vehicles.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    I have seen posts on a Jeep website where people are replacing their hubs with a part that only costs about half as much as even the discounted price I am paying.

    Mac, or anyone else who has some knowledge on the subject, are they most likely getting as high quality as original equipment? Who is the supplier for the OEM hub?

    I checked Autozone, remember, and they wanted $329.99. I will have to review those posts again to see where people are getting those low priced hubs.

    Also, a Jeep Bud talked to a guy who deals in auto parts, and that guy said he could get my a hub for about $130. According to THAT guy, the hub for a 98 Grand Cherokee is the same part as for the 01 Wrangler. The price is MUCH lower for the Grand. Guess that happens a lot? Just gotta know which parts are interchangeable and ask for the cheaper one???

    Does anyone know if Timken HA597449 (01 Wrangler) is exactly the same part as Timken 513084 (98 Grand).


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    I found a website,, that lists BOTH of those part numbers I mentioned, HA597449 and 513084 for the front wheel hub/bearing assembly for a 2001 Wrangler. They list the Timken HA597449 for $106.10 and the BCA/National 513084 for $149.50.

    Are either of those as good as the OEM part? Does Timken or BCA supply DC with the OEM parts?



    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    It appears that Timken and BCA both make a part number 513084. Can that be right? The same manufacturer makes the exact same part under two differnent part numbers for the same application???



    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    P.S. The above doesn't make sense without putting it with the previous posts, so let me explain.

    Part numbers HA597449 and 513084 are both made by Timken and are both listed for the 2001 Wrangler front wheel bearing. So, Timken makes two part numbers for the same application and uses part numbers HA597449 and 513084.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Depends how deep you want to get into it really. Timken is a long established manufacturer that used to be 'all american'. Many things have changed in recent years, though that doesn't necessarily mean for the worse.

    Personally, I'd opt for the cheapest and check it more often than you have been doing. That will give you a benchmark to decide what to do when your other one goes (and trying to keep out of mud and water will help too!).
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    While I think of it, try and straighten that tie rod before you have the toe-in reset. It's much easier for it to carry on bending if it already has a bend in it.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    I will get the tie rod as straight as possible before they set the toe-in.

    Feel free to expound more on that part number/price issue. You think the VERY SAME part can be had for about a third of the list price of OEM?


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    The cheaper replacement will be a 'pattern' part. It probably won't come from the original supplier to DC, but it will be a dimensionally correct copy. The bearings in it could come from a variety manufacturers, whether you use an OEM or pattern part. It's just unfortunate that you can't easily change the bearings alone.

    On the bright side, the front bearings usually last a lifetime unless you contaminate them.
  • image

    3.5 RE Suspension Lift
    1 inch BL
    Shrockworks Rocksliders
    33x10.5x15 BFG ATs
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    That puppy sure looks GOOD! And, she looks like she is READY FOR TURKEY BAY!

    So, when you gonna bring her down here????


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • Too bad. It was great in the 70's. I went to stay with several longhaired friends in Laguna Beach in 73. We were re-building a trimaran that sank off Mexico. My friends thought they were going to make it to Hawaii. These were the old hippie days. Using nails instead of screws:). I then went to Balboa Island to stay with other friends from the East Coast and that was getting very crowded but alot of fun. Then I headed to Hemet (sp?) and to Idlewild and it was great. Dogs ran free, the air was clean, I was very single, few people and ideal for a Jeep. I would not recognize the places but they probably would not recognize me either. But I still have an adventureous spirit- me and my Jeep of course. John
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    The hair may be gone, and the times may have changed, but your Jeep would be instantly recognisable to anyone from the 70's. The only others in current production that I can think of would be the Mini and the Beetle.

  • I'll be down,,won't be before christmas, but I will be down. Nicole doesn't do headstands, so lets stay away from Mess in My Pants Gulch.

  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    John - when was the last time you were out here? You wouldn't recognize any of the beach towns, or for that matter, most of SoCal. You would probably feel right at home around Frazier Park - it is one of the few areas that hasn't changed much over the years.

    While it wasn't much of a test, GiGi handled the snow covered streets of my subdivision this afternoon. There's about an inch or 2 of snow here and it is SO beautiful! The road didn't seem icy at all, just a little snow covered, so there was good traction. She didn't even wiggle her tail at the spot that is often icy. It'll be interesting to see what conditions are like tomorrow morning, though.
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