Dodge Dakota rear-end noise
any one have problems with the rear-end of their 2003 dakota. i have had the rear end replace twice in 14 months and now the service dept says the noise isnt the rear end its wind noise. exactly what the he^^ is a wind noise coming from the rear end for?
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Regards,
Dusty
The axle type is listed on the equipment sticker located on the inside of the glove box door.
Regards,
Dusty
If not the tires, whine is usually caused by the (front) differential. Especially if it's one of those AAM (GM) axle assemblies.
Best regards,
Dusty
3 years ago - took in to dealer and they replaced rear-diff pinion gears and ring gear after hearing the noise; that fixed the problem for a while
2 years ago - same drill, same result
1 year ago - jackass technician told me a TSB was out calling for owners to drown out the sound with radio to determine if noise is just normal = BS
now, the noise occurs as usual. Here is a description:
Audible from driver's seat and while sitting in the rear passengers' part of the cab
45-60 mph noticeable whining/ringing only when gas pedal is pushed, when engine is not under any load, noise ceases
as best i can tell, the noise does come from the rear end
guesses as to what it is:
1. ring gear, pinion gear in rear diff
2. driveshaft and rear axle, esp. rear diff housing, are not set up in line
3. u-joint has been suggested but i know very little about u-joints except that they creak when going bad
4. wheel bearing
5. fuel pump
6. it's not the damn tires
7. ghosts
8. Dodge's infamous transmission
anyone have any ideas as to how to diagnose the problem? short of making a long stethoscope, i am certain that if i take the truck in, the dealer will say something to the effect of "duh..." and attempt a fix. I'm at 68400 mi, with a 100k mi/2009 extended warranty that covers these sorts of things when the 7/70 powertrain goes out.
If anybody knows how to fix the problem and can outline how and I can get a dealer to fix it using your guidelines, I will send you $50; that is how annoying the whine/ring is, and, most importantly, I know that this ringing/whinging is a harbinger for impending mechanical doom/wallet rape.
thank you
Dusty
This failure could have resulted in a catastrophic failure if a very slight noise had not developed during parking lot turns. A quick Google of this problem resulted in numerous antidotal reports of this problem including catastrophic failures at highway speeds.
I am having the dodge components replaced with an Auburn unit so this doesn’t happen again.
Regards,
Dusty
PS: Dodge would not pay one cent of the costs.
The somewhat common complete failure is the C-clips breaking (or C-locks as Chrysler calls them) and the pieces chewing up a gear, or noise caused by pinion bearings wearing prematurely.
Noise complaints are the most common. I'm not sure but my guess is poor assembly at American Axle. More seem to go forever without making noise so I suspect it's not a component quality issue.
Chrysler finally got tired or got the point regarding their differential assemblies and is building a new facility dedicated to making their own axles once again. It will also be their own design and reported to be quieter and less friction than current designs. I think they'll be available on the 2008 RAMs. Hopefully the Daks will get the new rears.
Best regards,
Dusty
Regards,
Dusty
I just had the gear oil changed 3 days ago, Mobil 1 synthetic 75-90 and the friction modifier was added. I was watching them change it, and there where no pieces of metal in it, except tiny, tiny little pieces, they said that was normal. I also had them change the transfer case fluid, added was Valvoline ATF+4 synthetic.
Immediately after leaving the garage a noise started. Now, I can't tell if the noise is coming from the rear end or the transfer case. But while shifting through the gears, when I hit 3rd gear the noise starts. It sound like an "air noise". You know how some cars will make an "air noise" out the exhaust, I had a 73 Torino that did it.
It sounds exactly like that. I know that sounds kind of weird, but I can't possibly explain it any other way.
Do you have any clue of what might be causing that??
The only other noise it started after having the fluids changed, is when making a u-turn on damp grass (in my front yard) it clunks and jerks. This I know is coming from the rear end. I don't understand, because I know they added the friction modifier, I watched them put it in as well as the Mobil 1.
There is no noises while turning sharply on asphalt.
I would surely appreciate any help. I am so worried about this 9.25 lsd problem. This is my only vehicle and it is my daily driver.
Thank you so much, Lu
What is the ultimate fix for this rear end problem?
I really don't want to get rid of this truck. But I'm nervous as heck driving it, waiting for something to happen.
Is it only the limited slip diferentials that are having the problem? If so I wouldn't mind having someone put open gears in it.
Is it everything concerning the 9.25 rears? Earlier Dusty I believe mentioned the rear pinion bearing. I wouldn't mind having someone put in a 8.25 open rear end.
What exactly is the 8.25 rear meant for, 4 cyl, V6? Would it be okay to put an 8.25 rear in the 4.7?
Thank you, please respond.
Lu
"45-60 mph noticeable whining/ringing only when gas pedal is pushed, when engine is not under any load, noise ceases. "
Eventually the noise became worse until it was a horrible grinding last time.
I've had the back end completely rebuilt now TWICE in the last 10k miles (17 mos). It's now making the same noise again. I'm not paying for another bad repair again, but have no idea what to do this time if I'm just going to get another bad diagnosis.
The 8.25 is more than adequate strength wise behind a 4.7 motor. The critical working limit is load and these axles are used on Dakotas under 6000 GVW and with smaller wheels and tires.
The 9.25 is used on Daks above 6000 GVW and with larger wheels and tires.
My son's '91 Dak is still going on the original 8.25 at 315K miles. I know when he had it he maintenance the differential every 50K.
On my 2003 3.55 LSD 9.25 I've drained, flushed, and installed new lubricant every 25K. So far so good, but at my 100K I found one of the small curled ends of the steel end tabs clung to the magnet. Just lucky that the ring gear didn't pick it up. I looked at the ring and pinion and there is no signs of any damage.
One thing that should be looked at more closely is the rear U-joint on older or higher mileage Dakotas. Vibration from a bad U-joint can take out a front pinion bearing and race.
Holding my breath a little at 108,000 miles!
Regards,
Dusty
Regards,
Dusty
thanks
The lubricant used in LSDs contains a friction modifier which permits lubrication of the clutches while providing for a controlled rate of slippage. As miles accumulate the rear axle lubricant wears down, so to speak, the slippage of the clutches can sometimes cause a chattering between the separate cluch surfaces that sounds like a groan. I'm thinking this might be the cause of your symptom.
Resolution is very simple. A drain and refill of the correct rear axle lubricant and a 4 ounces of friction modifier. For Mopar LSD differentials the LSD additive (friction modifier) is part number 04318060AB.
Regards,
Dusty
I recommend getting someone you trust well and perform the following:
1. Place wheel chocks on the front wheels to prevent vehicle movement in either direction.
2. Start the engine and apply the parking brake.
3. Get underneath the vehicle in a position that allows you to listen and observe both ends of the driveshaft.
4. Have someone move the transmission in to a forward and a reverse gear intermittently.
5. Listen for the source of the noise. Watch the pinion shaft at the rear end for excessive movement when the transmission is engaged. Listen and watch at the tailshaft of the transmission for excessive movement or noise. Check for a broken transmission mount.
Regards,
Dusty
Dusty
Apply Mopar® Door Ease, or equivalent, stick lubricant to outside surface of bearing cup.
Install the pinion rear bearing cup with Installer C-4310 and Driver Handle C - 4171.
Ensure cup is correctly seated.
Apply Mopar® Door Ease, or equivalent, stick lubricant to outside surface of bearing cup.
Install the pinion front bearing cup with Installer D - 129 and Handle C - 4171.
Install pinion front bearing, and oil slinger, if equipped.
Apply a light coating of gear lubricant on the lip of pinion seal.
Install seal with Installer C-3860-A and Handle C-4171
NOTE: Pinion depth shims are placed between the rear pinion bearing cone and pinion gear to achieve proper ring and pinion gear mesh. If the factory installed ring and pinion gears are reused, the pinion depth shim should not require replacement. If required, refer to Pinion Gear Depth to select the proper thickness shim before installing rear pinion bearing.
Place the proper thickness depth shim on the pinion gear.
Install the rear bearing and slinger, if equipped, on the pinion gear with Installer C-3095.
Install a new collapsible preload spacer on pinion shaft and install pinion gear in housing
Install pinion gear in housing.
Install yoke with Installer C-3718 and Yoke Holder 6719.
Install the yoke washer and a new nut on the pinion gear and tighten the pinion nut until there is zero bearing end-play. It will not be possible at this point to achieve zero bearing end-play if a new collapsible spacer was installed.
Tighten the nut to 285 N·m (210 ft. lbs.)
CAUTION: Never loosen pinion gear nut to decrease pinion gear bearing rotating torque and never exceed specified preload torque. If preload torque or rotating torque is exceeded a new collapsible spacer must be installed. The torque sequence will then have to be repeated.
Using Yoke Holder 6719, crush collapsible spacer until bearing end play is taken up.
Slowly tighten the nut in 6.8 N·m (5 ft. lbs.) increments until the desired rotating torque is achieved. Measure the rotating torque frequently to avoid over crushing the collapsible spacer
Check bearing rotating torque with an inch pound torque wrench The torque necessary to rotate the pinion gear should be:
Original Bearings - 1 to 3 N·m (10 to 20 in. lbs.)
New Bearings - 2 to 5 N·m (15 to 35 in. lbs.)
Install propeller shaft.
Apply a coating of hypoid gear lubricant to the differential bearings, bearing cups, and threaded adjusters. A dab of grease can be used to keep the adjusters in position. Carefully position the assembled differential case in the housing.
Observe the reference marks and install the differential bearing caps at their original locations
Install bearing cap bolts and tighten the upper bolts to 14 N·m (10 ft. lbs.) Tighten the lower bolts finger-tight until the bolt head is seated.
DIFFERENTIAL BEARING PRELOAD AND GEAR BACKLASH
The following must be considered when adjusting bearing preload and gear backlash:
The maximum ring gear backlash variation is 0.003 inch (0.076 mm)
Mark the gears so the same teeth are meshed during all backlash measurements.
Maintain the torque while adjusting the bearing preload and ring gear backlash.
Excessive adjuster torque will introduce a high bearing load and cause premature bearing failure. Insufficient adjuster torque can result in excessive differential case free-play and ring gear noise.
Insufficient adjuster torque will not support the ring gear correctly and can cause excessive differential case free-play and ring gear noise.
NOTE: The differential bearing cups will not always immediately follow the threaded adjusters as they are moved during adjustment. To ensure accurate bearing cup responses to the adjustments:
Maintain the gear teeth engaged (meshed) as marked.
The bearings must be seated by rapidly rotating the pinion gear a half turn back and forth.
Do this five to ten times each time the threaded adjusters are adjusted.
Use Wrench C-4164 to adjust each threaded adjuster inward until the differential bearing free-play is eliminated Allow some ring gear backlash (approximately 0.01 inch/0.25 mm) between the ring and pinion gear. Seat the bearing cups with the procedure described above.
Install dial indicator and position the plunger against the drive side of a ring gear tooth Measure the backlash at 4 positions (90 degrees apart) around the ring gear. Locate and mark the area of minimum backlash.
Rotate the ring gear to the position of the least backlash. Mark the gear so that all future backlash measurements will be taken with the same gear teeth meshed.
Loosen the right-side, tighten the left-side threaded adjuster. Obtain backlash of 0.003 to 0.004 inch (0.076 to 0.102 mm) with each adjuster tightened to 14 N·m (10 ft. lbs.) Seat the bearing cups with the procedure described above.
Tighten the differential bearing cap bolts to 136 N·m (100 ft. lbs.);
Tighten the right-side threaded adjuster to 102 N·m (75 ft. lbs.) Seat the bearing cups with the procedure described above. Continue to tighten the right-side adjuster and seat bearing cups until the torque remains constant at 102 N·m (75 ft. lbs.)
Measure the ring gear backlash. The range of backlash is 0.006 to 0.008 inch (0.15 to 0.203 mm)
Continue increasing the torque at the right-side threaded adjuster until the specified backlash is obtained
NOTE: The left-side threaded adjuster torque should have approximately 102 N·m (75 ft. lbs.) If the torque is considerably less, the complete adjustment procedure must be repeated.
Tighten the left-side threaded adjuster until 102 N·m (75 ft. lbs.) torque is indicated. Seat the bearing rollers with the procedure described above. Do this until the torque remains constant.
Install the threaded adjuster locks and tighten the lock screws to 10 N·m (90 in. lbs.)
After the proper backlash is achieved, perform the Gear Contact Analysis procedure.
GEAR CONTACT PATTERN ANALYSIS
The ring and pinion gear teeth contact patterns will show if the pinion gear depth is correct in the axle housing. It will also show if the ring gear backlash has been adjusted correctly. The backlash can be adjusted within specifications to achieve desired tooth contact patterns.
Apply a thin coat of hydrated ferric oxide, or equivalent, to the drive and coast side of the ring gear teeth.
Wrap, twist, and hold a shop towel around the pinion yoke to increase the turning resistance of the pinion gear. This will provide a more distinct contact pattern.
Using a boxed end wrench on a ring gear bolt, Rotate the differential case one complete revolution in both directions while a load is being applied from shop towel.
The areas on the ring gear teeth with the greatest degree of contact against the pinion gear teeth will squeegee the compound to the areas with the least amount of contact.
FINAL ASSEMBLY
Scrape the residual sealant from the housing
Our good friend Greasesister has provided a detail instruction on the reassembly and adjustment process.
Best regards,
Dusty
P.S. Thanks Greasesister. That was a lot of good information. You must be an avid typist!
THANKS
I have a 2wd 97 dakota sport with a 3.9L and 105000 kms. I got a code P0171 and I can to repair the problem is to clean the maf sensor and check for vacuum leaks. My truck does't have a maf sensor and I can't find any leaks. The truck runs rough and there seems like theres gas getting into my oil pan. Any ideas?
Thanks
I have a '00 Dodge Dakota 5.9 w/4wd. Bought it about 2 months ago and was very satisfied. Has everything I was looking for. About a week ago, I noticed a whinning sound coming from the rear end, especially when maintaining a certain speed (between 45-50 mph). And as I come to a stop, it will make a slight grinding noise. So for the moment, it's now "resting" til I can figure out what the problem is. I've been given some options as to what could be the cause...
1.Spider gears going bad
2.U-joint needle bearings
3.Bad LSD clips
That's to name a few, I'm sure. I don't mind working on any vehicle but transmissions and related components are my weakness. If there are any other options or ideas, it would be greatly appreciated. I fear if I take it into a shop first, it's gonna cost me way too much for them to even look at it and then just suggest what it could be. Thanks again.
-Eddie
-Eddie