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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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Comments

  • That's what I thought. The auto helps with torque multiplication via the torque converter. I think even the manual first gear is pretty low too.

    I mean it's certainly impressive but wonder how hard would a long steep trail be on the transmission... The other video posted shows the advantages of a mechanical type center differential vs. a clutch type. If I'm not mistaken the Subaru has a Torsen type, right? The Grand Vitara also has a mechanical center diff, plus it's rear wheel drive with up to 50% torque to the front and of course it has a low range. You could basically do a hill like that all day long without a worry.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The manual Forester has a hill holder clutch, so at the very least it would not slide backward while trying to start on that incline.

    It's actually more useful for a novice to learn stick.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    True but... I pity the fool that learns on a Forester with the hill holder and then tries to drive a manual tranny anything else in hilly terrain ;)

    -Frank
  • kavoomkavoom Posts: 181
    Agreed. I do not allow myself to become dependent and try to act like it is not there. But when pulling a trailer it is nice to know it is...
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,832
    You'll notice a lot of new discussions here in the Subaru Forester Group.

    Among the discussions you'll find are:

    New Subaru Forester Owners - Give Us Your Report!
    Subaru Forester: MPG-Real World Numbers
    Subaru Forester Tire/Wheel Questions
    Subaru Forester Transmission Questions
    Forester Body Work: Fixing Dents and Dings
    Forester Interior & Passenger Comfort Questions
    Subaru Forester Engine Issues
    Subaru Forester Brake Questions
    Subaru Forester Electrical/Lighting Issues
    How Much Can The Forester Carry?

    Please be sure to check the discussion list for an appropriate discussion whenyou are ready to post. If you have a question or issue that doesn't appear to fit one of the existing discussions on the list, please feel free to start up a new discussion.

    Thanks for your understanding and assistance as we move through this reorganization of the forums.

    Edmunds Moderator

    Need some roadside assistance? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Just purchased or leased a vehicle? Share your vehicle reviews

    PF_Flyer's 2014 Versa Note Long Term Blog
    How To Start Your Own Long Term Blog

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,832
    Almost forgot...

    Rather than try to create all the "logical" comparison discussions for "Forester vs ____", we'll let those evolve as users out there are shopping different vehicles.

    Since we're here in the Forester Group, the only naming convention I'd ask you toremember would be to put the Forester in the title first, followed by the other vehicle, as in :

    Subaru Forester vs Mazda CX-7

    Edmunds Moderator

    Need some roadside assistance? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Just purchased or leased a vehicle? Share your vehicle reviews

    PF_Flyer's 2014 Versa Note Long Term Blog
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  • For anyone who is interested. I went off-road with my 07 Santa Fe last weekend. I don't have 4LO but do have a 50/50 lock button. Well lets just say mu cousin's Blazer 4x4 on 4LO had a hard time following me. I have more details and pics here: link title
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    You need to set up your CarSpace.com page so you can post the photos big enough so old guys like me can see them. :shades:

    Time to link to my Outback off-roading pic again:

    link
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Nice shots. My guess is the tires are what did it. Tires are about 85% of the key to offroading and snow-driving in particular.

    -mike
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,921
    nokian tires are supposed to be great snow tires.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • xostnotxostnot Posts: 232
    Not to diminish how well the Santa Fe did, which is impressive and must have been very satisfying.

    The tires on the Blazer are now an outdated design that would not have nearly the traction yours do in this circumstance. They have meaty tread blocks, but not much in the way of sipes. Probably they're also a harder compound. In addition, the flying snow in the photo of the struggling Blazer makes me think that it did not have a posi-traction rear axle, or a locked locker. It's pretty useless to have a 4x4 on snow without some form of traction control.

    Our '06 Grand Vitara has vastly superior traction on snow compared to the '91 Pathfinder it replaced, even with the Pathfinder having a posi rear axle. This is due to an ideal weight distribution and a traction control system, certainly not because of the GV's oem tires.

    Can you get a low range on the new Santa Fe? An automatic is a reasonable substitute for a low range, until you have to do very prolonged steep uphill or descents on very rough roads.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    From the pics it's more a snow-event than an offroad event.

    I bet that blazer would kick the Santa-Fe's butt if it were rock climbing or mudding.

    -mike
  • No 4LO available on the Santa Fe. As I have read, using the brake and gas pedal at the same time can substitute for a 4LO. Just not for long period of time since it is hard on the torque converter. Since I do not plan on any doing any rock climbing I should be alright.

    Can't wait to do some mudding this summer. But for now I'm having to much fun in the snow. Which I prefer since it is easier to clean the underside afterwards.

    Not sure if the Blazer has a posi-traction rear axle. I think so but definitely no locker. Seems like the back sliding action when it was going uphill was cause more by the tires trying to catch up to the front. Seems like the 4WD system is not distributing the power evenly back to front.

    On the Santa Fe I have a 50/50 lock button. It's harder to tell if it's splitting the power evenly since it is normally front bias. But since I was able to stop and go on the hill and not him...

    When you guys take your GF or Subaru out in the snow,mud. Do you leave the traction control on? I tried both and had a hard time telling a difference when I was doing stop and go on the hill. Apart with ESC and TC on I had a warning light in the dash blinking when I was spinning and going nowhere.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'd leave it off for offroading, because if you need to power-out of a spot, spinning the wheels for traction, the TC will cut power to the engine and leave you in a mud-bog!

    -mike
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Steve,

    Did you click on the thumbnails? The pictures blow up and are quite easy for an old guy like met to see. :confuse:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Nah, I wanted to encourage you to set up your CarSpace albums, LOL. Can't you take a simple hint? :shades:
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Nice cover. Maybe someone else will buy it. :P
  • xostnotxostnot Posts: 232
    That's true, it will, and that can cost you your momentum. But if you keep your foot in it, the power will come back.
  • junkedjunked Posts: 1
    They were both total peices of junk. If I had to choose I would want my vega as my saturn vue was $20,000. It is falling apart peice by peice. First the hood realease broke, then the rear wiper moter. The the fan switch then the cruise control. It is just three years old. It is made with plastic tinker toy parts. Dont waste your money. Buy a toyota. I think an american can build a great car but I think that an American car company is unable to compete in the car market when quality is the issue. No 200,000 mile GM cars. they even say "LIKE A ROCK" sitting in the wrecking yard, anthor example of "PROFESSIONAL GRADE ENGINEERING!!"
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Right, but by the time the power comes back you might be in a pit of mud up to the frame rails, and then all the power in the world won't help you out. In fact on my Armada when you put it in 4-lo, it turns off the traction control by default, leaving only the ABLS engaged for each axle.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    To be fair, the new Vue looks much improved. Just saw it at the Auto Show in DC yesterday.

    Also, the new Malibu is a huge improvement.

    Ironically, Toyota might be slipping a little. The Tundra and Camry have some cheap bits inside. In fact I'd go as far as saying that the Silverado has a nicer interior than the Tundra.

    Lutz is finally getting solid results, i.e. improved vehicles.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I actually test drove an Outlook. Solid. Huge, though. I had an issue with blind spots.

    I'm leaning towards a van but it was a seriously competent crossover, and yes I'd pick one over a Pilot or Highlander.

    -juice
  • It also depends on different kind of traction control. Some don't cut engine power much but mostly applies braking to individual wheel that are spinning. The best one's (LandRover, Mercedes) have a different modes with a preset algorithm just for off-road.

    I have tried the Santa Fe again last weekend. Went to the cottage where there are some nice hills on our lot. With a bit more snow than last outing. Tried with TC on or off. Couldn't see a big difference really. When the TC light in the dash came on it was always to late and I was already stuck. Doesn't cut allot of engine power tho. So far I prefer it off. Probably in my head but I feel I have more control of the vehicle.

    My dad's friend was there with his Yukon Denali. He wanted to see how his heavy mama, that's how he call it :) handle the off-road. He has no 4LO or lock button, just AWD. He went everywhere I did but always needed to accelerate allot more before the climb. As soon as he went slow he would spin and get stuck. We both had fun seeing the limitations of our SUV's.

    Tried to convince my dad to take his 02 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the nice HO engine. But even with his Quadra Drive 2 system, locking in the middle and back, he didn't want to. He said his tires are almost slick and are due to be changed. I think he just didn't want his son to get him unstuck with his Hyundai. ;)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Nice stuff. Yeah the Denali can use the V8 power to momentum through stuff. Tires also make a big difference. Last winter despite having 4-hi/4-lo and locking center diffy with LSD front and rear on my Armada, I was able to get it stuck pretty easily in snow as the Continental tires on it were useless. This winter I have replaced them with Bridgestone AT Revos and it's like night and day in the snow/mud.

    -mike
  • xostnotxostnot Posts: 232
    Interestingly, the new Grand Vitara uses a stability/traction control system licensed from Daimler Chrysler. So DC may have a fancier version reserved for their costlier buggies.

    I finally got our GV stuck this winter, and I too blame it on the factory tires:-) I was in a situation where any wheelspin resulted in sideslipping, which I definitely did not want to do. I forgot to shut off the tc, which meant the wheels would individually and out of synch with each other, spin one rotation and then be braked. This totally defeated any finessing it out and eventually resulted in a dent. This tc system needs refining.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    My ABLS on the Armada would spin all 4 w/o a problem the problem was the tires :(

    -mike
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    "The Vue, a car-based compact sport-utility, is heavily shopped against the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. Of Vue shoppers, 20 percent also look at the CR-V and 17 percent consider the RAV4. The high-volume Ford Escape ranks 3rd on Vue shoppers' lists, which is rounded out by the Hyundai Tucson and Santa Fe, Mitsubishi Outlander, Mazda CX-7 and Jeep Compass."

    Saturn: GM's Best Defense Against Toyota (Auto Observer)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    here. A co-worker just bought a Suzuki and whoa! Quite a difference from the old XL-7 I test drove 5 years ago. I thought Suzuki was dying but this new model is very nice and priced thousands less than its competition, yet offering the same goodies.. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Some shoppers. Looked at CR-V, Accord, RAV4 and a host of others. No Hyundai, no Suzuki. Not interested. I might be heavily prejudiced against the incumbents...but hey, it's my money.
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