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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 258
    edited November 2012
    Not a spammer. I read this site everyday and only reply when something strikes me. The Kia Optima is built in West Point, Georgia. As of today, Georgia remains part of the US.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Make sure when you try the Fusion on for size that the Easy Entry & Exit Function is activated. It makes getting in and out of the car much easier for anyone 6' or more by automatically moving the seat to the full back position.

    I've never driven a car without the seat all the way back in the first place. Accords, Santa Fe, Odyssey, Corolla, Sonata, Verano, Camry, Suburban and even an Excursion... the seat is always at the back of the track. :)
  • Me too! I read these forums daily but only post occasionally.

    Yes, Georgia is still part of the U.S. Their petition to secede has not yet been approved. ;)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    Thanks Wayne21. My car was built at the Westpoint, GA plant.

    People don't have to order Sonata's and Optima's because they are affordable mid-size sedans and not an Aston Martin Vanquish or a Rolls.

    Why would I order a Ford Fusion and wait 6 mo's for it?

    I owned 94 SHO , so I like Ford just fine.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    What does cost have to do with ordering? The delays will be over with in a month or two and there won't be any more delays for the next 5 or 6 years. Much ado about nothing.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    The delays will be over with in a month or two and there won't be any more delays for the next 5 or 6 years. Much ado about nothing.

    Agreed...being 1st on the block with the "latest" always includes a down-side.

    I'm willing to bet there will be initial quality/reliability problems as well...usually is.

    If you want to be the first with an iPhone you have to wait in long lines...this doesn't take away from it's excellence; it just indicates what you're willing to go through to be the first.

    Not to diminish anybody's disappointment...I'd be PO'd if my order were delayed, especially when I'm eagerly anticipating it.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    Back in September they shipped the stamping dies for the left and right body sides to Arizona by truck and rented a huge aircraft to fly them back to Detroit to be fixed, then flown back to Arizona and back to Hermosillo by truck. That's why they have this batch and hold inspection process - to find problems before they show up at the dealer.

    Once fixed these problems should not reoccur.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,940
    '...then flown back to Arizona ...'
    Wow - THAT sounds expensive.
    - Ray
    Stamping dies that size must be very heavy.......
    2016 BMW 340i
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    It required a Hercules transport plane and I think there were 2 complete dies - top and bottom left and right sides so I imagine they were REALLY heavy. Sounds like they had them fixed and back in service within a week or so which is really fast considering.

    As someone else said - you don't always want to see inside the sausage factory.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 258
    12,000 miles later and there have been zero problems with my car. None. As a matter of fact, very few had to wait for their Korean car. Do we want to be a whole subsidiary of Asia? Keep it up America, and that is what we have to look forward to.
    Hope you are listening Ford, as you are the last and only US manufacturer that I WOULD still buy a car from.

    This is what I responded to. The KIAs are made in Georgia and provide a lot of work for people in that part of Georgia and nearby Alabama towns. (The sonata is built in Montgomery Alabama. I've toured that factory and it is really awesome.) For every factory employee about 12 jobs are created to support him. That is a lot of employment and money provided to a lot of local people. As for the Asians or anyone else, there is a 25 percent tax on any car imported to the US - compliments of the UAW lobbying in the 1970s because noone would buy american at that time. That is why so many of the foreign-based car companies have built factories in the US (avoiding the 25 percent import tax).... non-union as a rule so as not to have the UAW ruin them. As for buying ford, the fusion is built in Hermasillo Mexico. My brother recently purchased a new camaro - an american muscle car. The motor and transmission were made in mexico and the car was assembled in Oshawa Canada.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    The 25% "chicken tax" as it's known only applies to light trucks. It does not apply to mid sized sedans or cars in general. Those are built here for other reasons.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Nonetheless, the point is made. What constitutes an American car is subject to endless debate. To call cars built by for example Ford "American" simply because it is an American-based company does not solve it. It is not just the jobs that go to Mexico and Canada when "American" models are built there, but what about Fords built and sold in Europe, South America and Asia? Should locals there stop buying them, even though Ford provides a huge number of jobs in those countries, simply because it is a foreign company? I think not. Buy what you want and let competition improve the entire field.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    edited November 2012
    I didn't mean to spark a debate on what constitutes an American car and whatnot. It's a very complicated issue. I am worried about my country. I have tried to buy American brands without being stupid about it.
    My grandfather was a foreman at the GM transmission plant outside Buffalo NY. So, my family purchased GM vehicle's. My '87 Z24 was a great looking and driving little car with a V6 stuffed in it. It was the first car I ever financed myself. (I was 19 yrs old in 1990) I loved it. Unfortunately, It broke down all the time.

    American cars have made leaps and bounds since then thankfully, and I purposely bought a USA made car.

    I like that my Optima was made in a new Georgia plant. That plant employs almost 2000 American workers. My grandfather (and father) would have been ok with that.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    I took a look at the KMMG (Kia Motor's Manufacturing Georgia) website. There are 2500 direct manufacturing jobs, and another 7500 support jobs created since the opening of the plant in 2009.

    The first vehicle produced there was a white Sorrento. In 2010 production started on the Optima.

    In 2011 Kia produced 89,000 Optima's, which was not enough to keep up with demand. So, production was ramped up another 45,000 units this year with a target of roughly 150,000 depending on market conditions. They were smart to do that since the all knew Camry had some lukewarm reviews.

    So much for no one ordering Korean cars. :P

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,041
    If you are a parent of young children (at least one under 12 years old) who owns a the latest model VW Passat or Honda Accord sedan, a reporter would like for you to fill out a survey, due by December 1, 2012, for use in a print publication. Please email no later than Friday, November 30, 2012 for a copy of the survey.


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  • b25nutb25nut Templeton, CAPosts: 201
    I've had my Fusion Hybrid for eight days now, and I am now a former Hybrid skeptic. On my commutes to work each day (80% hwy @65-70 mph), I averaged 39.3 mpg this week. I just took the time to do a city test. Some stop and go and speeds of 30-40 mph. I went a total of 9.7 miles that included retracing my path so that climbs and descents balanced out. I am now a true believer.......53.2 mpg. When I ended the battery still had 2/3 of its charge.
    I am amazed by the brakes. You should find that you will make your smoothest stops ever. Some of the reviews had made me leery of them, but they are a non-issue.
    I narrowed down my choices for a new car in August to the Optima, Altima, Santa Fe Sport and the Fusion. I have spent $42,000+ on our last two cars and I set a limit this time of $34k. The first car that was eliminated was the Optima. I think it has the second best looks, but equipped the way I wanted it was $36k, and I didn't like the interior color options. I drove both the Altima and the Santa Fe Sport and they were both impressive, with the Altima $1,800 under my limit. Then I read a review that really hit a nerve. It said that if you choose the Altima, you are telling the world you have given up. Nissan makes great cars, but with the styling of many of their other models, I'm concerned about their future. The high rev sound of the engine during acceleration on the freeway also put me off.
    The Hyundai ended up in second place since it looks nice and I wouldn't have been giving up much cargo carrying capacity. The 33 mpg hwy was a concern, but it was acceptable if the Fusion ended up being a dud.
    The reviews sold me on the Fusion. It also gave me the exterior and interior colors I wanted. I ordered my Fusion Hybrid in September before even seeing a Fusion in person. I caught a lot of flak from my wife for doing that, but she's glad I did now. Getting the Hybrid cost me an extra $3,100 compared to the 1.6 SE, but I feel it is worth it. The seamless system makes driving more pleasurable, and really more exciting. It's very nice to start the car in the garage and hear nothing, with no exhaust smell fouling up the air.
    I'm anything but an environmental activist. I still say I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius.
  • sdcal1sdcal1 Posts: 3
    edited November 2012
    The average Joe out there does not post or understand launches or delays because of this or that. I am a heavy equipment salesman for 25 years now and we just don't offer anything until we have it because of experiences just like this. When a car salesman tells you can order a vehicle and 6 to 8 weeks later your vehicle will be here well then stupid them. Most believe in the dealer they have done business with maybe for years in the past. Delays for what ever reason effect people differently and again not everyone consumer is up to speed with modern launches. My own story was very complicated and created many problems for my family

    That said... i received my daughters new Fusion two months ahead of unexpectedly when a vehicle came in close to my specs and I was given the opportunity to buy it like my fleet order back in August. Picked up last night. I must say I am blown away by just how technically advanced this vehicle is. I bought this for my 17 yr old daughter and not sure she will ever get all that it has to offer and just might be more vehicle than she should have. I have only driven it a few miles but the 1.6 is a little lacking and does have a tendency for the trans to search more than it should but can't imagine her to realize. The rest of us that are use to more powerful engines will feel how this little engine strains. Still impressed as my 14 year old son marveled at every cool item the advanced car had to offer. He spent 3 hours in the garage going over over all the items/options and how they worked. Oh youth and how they enjoy technology!!! He enjoyed telling me everyting and hopefully will have the patience with his sister to explain it all.

    Will keep you posted as I plan to suprise her with a car she does not expect to be back from Flat Rock until around Christmas. Do love messing with the young.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    I had to cruise down I-95 between Springfield and Richmond VA and saw two on the way down, and one on the way back. It looks great in white, and it looked decked out. I couldn't get over to see what trim level it was. (Titanium? Platinum diamond? gold ruby iridium?). :P

    The other two were that killer blue color..... They were going the other way.

    I gotta tell you, I love what they did with the front, and also am really fond of the dual exhaust and how they flawlessly integrated it into the rear bumper. This is the best looking Ford sedan I have seen since the 92-95 SHO. (The current SHO is classified as a large sedan).

    Good job Ford.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,041
    If you are a parent of young children (at least one under 12 years old) who owns a the latest model Ford Fusion or Honda Accord sedan, a reporter would like for you to fill out a survey, due by December 1, 2012, for use in a print publication. Please email no later than Friday, November 30, 2012 for a copy of the survey.


    Need help navigating? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    A reporter would like to speak to car owners who use Chrysler Uconnect, Cadillac CUE or Ford's MyFord/MyLincoln Touch. If you use any of these telematics systems, please send your daytime contact information to no later than November 20, 2012 at 1 p.m. PT/4 p.m. ET.
  • Just out of curiosity, was your original order for the 1.6 with auto start/stop? If it was, that's what caused the delay. I don't know what the problem is with that particular option, but all orders requesting it have been delayed. Maybe they're addressing safety concerns with the fact that it locks up the steering? As far as I know, no other configurations are affected, just that particular one. So perhaps they're just sending Fusions to Flat Rock to install that one option.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    There were initial problems with the dies then subsequent parts problems that appear to have now been corrected with the exception of auto start/stop which I also believe is a parts supply problem (uses a different battery and starter motor). The big delay right now is fixing the backlog of vehicles with bad or missing parts.
  • My order did not include the start/stop with the 1.6. I had the 204A package and you could not get that package on the start /stop so I opted not to get even though it is priced right.
  • My original ordered vehicle was manufactured on 10/10/2012 and was part of the group of vehicles slated for the repair/fix. I was told by the dealer that just over 27,000 vehicles were being shipped to Flat Rock for repair. The vehicle I received was manufactured 10/31/2012.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    I figured I would add that the C/D long term test BMW had start/stop on the 2.0 turbo, and it had some NVH issues. They quoted " rumbling and stumbling restarts". that might be something to check out during a test drive of any so-equipped vehicle to see how slick the system is. I know that if I dropped $45k on a new BMW and it shook and shuddered I would be less than happy.

    It is at least easily disabled on the dash, (which defeats the purpose of having it in the first place).

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    BMW doesn't have much experience with this technology. Ford has had it on their hybrids for over 7 years now. All of the reviews I've read say that it's seamless and not noticeable. It has to do with the engine software and where it leaves the engine when it's turned off that makes it easier to restart quickly and smoothly.
  • I'm glad I didn't order mine until October. It's been almost 6 weeks now, and I still don't even have a VIN# yet, so I wonder how much longer mine will take.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    My neighbor came home with a Focus SEL hatchback 2 mos ago, and this morning it's on the flatbed on the way to the dealer.

    This is the second time. Last time was on Halloween, and the transmission was replaced because a bracket was defective the transmission. This time he backed it out and it would not shift into drive.

    So....Maybe Ford has launched too many new vehicles at once? I mean Focus, Fusion, Escape and the Explorer are all new, or recent; ground up fresh vehicles.
    sdcal, I hope they work it out soon on the Fusion you ordered. Beautiful car.

    Hope u guys had a nice holiday.


    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    Ford already admitted they've been launching too many vehicles too quickly and that's led to more problems than normal but I don't think that Focus problem is one of them. First one I've heard of like that. Most of the problems are around fit and finish, defective parts or software.

    Now that they've launched the 3rd gen hybrids including the Fusion/CMax and almost launched the plug-in versions I think they'll slow down the pace just a little and get the problems fixed.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Oh boy, Ford is recalling nearly 90K units of the 1.6 Ecoboost Fusion and Escape, due to overheating and engine fires. Too bad. A great little engine that was released a bit prematurely?
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