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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    edited January 2013
    Well, the size increases of mid size sedans are driven by a couple of factors.

    Customers want more legroom, more headroom, more features, more trunk space, etc. At the same time, the government "safety police" keeps forcing manufactures to add more crumple zones, more airbags, thicker structural members and A-C pillars, side impact beams, pedestrian safety systems (because people are too stupid to get out of the way and/or have ear buds shoved in their ears while listening to Van Halen at level 10 while jogging in the street during rush-hour with all-black sweats) get the picture :D

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,175
    I'm sure that you could get somebody from every car brand who had a lemon that could give "a word of caution". My experience with Mazda has been the exact opposite of yours. Not one repair that I have had to pay for in 6 years and 95k miles. Two small handled at first oil change and second was a missing screw from a sun visor which they replaced for nothing at 75k miles. They also just installed a new battery in my remote fob for nothing during an oil change. Granted, a lot of this is the dealer but still the car has performed flawlessly. Consumer Reports shows the Mazda6 since 2006 has had a very good repair record.

    I have had a couple of lemons from different brands in my life but I avoid giving a brand a bad rap because of my poor luck. If everyone was having similar problems it would be a different story.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    My two Mazdas were among the most reliable of the 30 or so vehicles I have owned. 2004 was nine model years ago. Manufacturers can move up and down the reliability ratings quite a bit in that amount of time.
  • gene84gene84 Posts: 9
    On the other hand my 2004 Prius has over 210,00 miles and going strong. Water pump went out at 125,00-miles but Toyota paid for it. The brakes will last forever, no major maintenance, no belts, hoses, transmission service required, etc., etc. Local taxi company says they are "bullet proof" you can't "kill them"
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,501
    edited January 2013
    Hey guys. I am just sharing my experience with Mazda. It was a very, very nice car and I bought it for my wife. It drove great, had 240 HP and every available option.

    It let us down a bit. The accidents were the scary part. My brothers 03 Protege hydroplaned the same way as my wife's Mazda 6, and had the same brand and model Bridgstones.(although smaller and skinnier) He hit the brakes during a sudden downpour and slid 1/4 mile trying to regain control and plowed into the jersey wall.

    Those experiences plus the breakdowns soured the milk on Mazda for us. Please do not take it personally. I am sure their new Mazda 6 is probably screwed together better than my "Son-optima". Really.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    How is that even remotely a Mazda fault? The tires must have been too worn or the driver was going too fast for conditions.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,175
    I have no problem with people reporting their direct experiences with any automobile(midsize of course since that is the topic). If one prefaces with saying that they have no idea if this is still the case since they talking about a car from 8 model years ago or that it even remotely relates to other's expereiences with said car. To my knowledge, Mazda has been using Micheilen brand tires for years(at least since 2007) if that even applies since most hydroplaing is a combo of tire tread, conditions and speed. Actually cannot remember the last I hydroplaned in a vehicle and I drive fairly aggressively. Think about it, a quarter mile of hydroplaning is a long distance assuming he had his foot off the gas and tapping the brakes. Sounds to me like someone going way to fast for conditions but I wasn't there so maybe the Bridgestones were particlularly bad rain tires. I don't know.

    I have no axe to grind for Mazda but am just trying to give it a fair shake.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    My brothers 03 Protege hydroplaned the same way as my wife's Mazda 6, and had the same brand and model Bridgstones.(although smaller and skinnier) He hit the brakes during a sudden downpour and slid 1/4 mile trying to regain control and plowed into the jersey wall.

    Sounds more like a "loose nut behind the wheel", if you catch my drift. My brother also has an 02 Protege approaching 200,000, with no issues other than routine maintenance.

    In any event, as many have stated, every brand has had issues over the years. Since you are bringing up a 9 year old Mazda, I can tell you that 9-11 year old Honda's/Acura's had numerous transmission problems. 5 year old Toyota's have had engine sludge problems. 7 yr old VW/Audi's have had electrical problems. See where I cam going with this??

    Recent evaluators of Mazda have them near the top in overall reliability. Many new Mazda's have been very, very good. And BTW, I owned a 2005 Mazda6 that was flawless until I traded it for a CX-5, which does have "zoom-zoom" per say even with 155hp. She sips fuel better than any other too.... :shades:

    I drove the new Mazda6. It is quite nice, has good power and the fuel ratings are outstanding. Can't wait to see what is in store when the diesel finally arrives.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I too respect any diesel effort..but with a caveat..

    That being, that with the strict emission minimums and the general political hate of oil burners in America, regs are going to impose a greater price of admission. Sounds fair right? but if SkyActive gas job tech delivers the FE they are claiming in real world, then the diesel is only going to up that anti by about 20%. any others who venture to go there, will just try to camouflage the 3500-4500$ premium by offering the diesel in basically only loaded offerings. In order to recoup the purchase price premium of the diesel, the customer will have to own/drive much more than the average miles per year that Americans drive in order for the 20% fuel savings to offset that price of admission.

    This opinion coming from a guy who loves diesels.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Two things....

    First, we have no idea how much the diesel will be, what trim levels it will be offered in or what the efficiency ratings will be. They are expected to surpass the Passat

    Second, VW has been KILLING it with the TDI in the last couple years with the Passat, Golf and Jetta models. They are selling like crazy.

    Buying a diesel is like buying a hybrid. It takes years before the total cost of ownership equals out when comparing to a regular gasoline engine. It will stop some, but not all. There does seem to be a demand for a clean-diesel here in the States, especially when Mazda's does not require any NOx after treatment.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    I hear ya..but let's plan to revisit this page and date when they are finally out and prices and equipment levels have been announced.
    Again..this coming from a guy who likes diesels and respects the entirely different rewards and amounts of how torque and the general way the engine delivers in every day use.

    edit: but hey...hopefully Mazda will break this past 1.5 decade practice, and offer the diesel [non-permissible content removed] for tat for a 1200 - 1500$ premium over gas and call it a can hope..
    Remember when VW offered the Golf/Jetta in diesel or gas for same price? Those were the good ol' days..
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Then there's the price premium for diesel fuel. In my town it's about 30% over 87 octane (why so much, I have no idea). So the diesel Mazda6 would need to get 50+ mpg in real world highway driving to overcome that. Tough bar to cross for a midsized sedan. Plus whatever the purchase price premium is.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    it's about 30% over 87 octane (why so much, I have no idea)

    I could offer my opinion on this, but in past have been accused of being a conspiracist.
    Especially when you consider that it costs them less to refine diesel than gas..but I digress :(

    And is why I used the term political in my earlier post..
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    Buying a diesel is like buying a hybrid. It takes years before the total cost of ownership equals out when comparing to a regular gasoline engine.

    There are other 'values' of a diesel other than mileage, i.e. torque. In heavier vehicles like our mini-van I'd prefer a diesel even if the fuel savings were minimal.

    Sometimes manufacturers add 'gimmicks'...vtec may be nice in a sports/sporty car but for some people, especially minivan drivers and laid back drivers, revving to 4500+ rpm to gain the 'gimmick' feature means you don't take advantage of the feature.

    Similarly, some people who drive a Mazda 6 may not want to rev to 5k all day. The commute in stop and go would be better served with a small diesel.

    Not that I'm opposed to revving and driving like you stole it...years past, I recall driving a Civic Si for 14 Hours straight at over 5K rpm. I was going pretty fast. Luckily I didn't get a ticket...hopefully I've gained some wisdom over the years ;)
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,388
    Unless you are a taxi driver that puts 100s of thousands of miles on your car, one may never see the financial benefit of buying a hybrid or diesel. But if you think of diesel as an engine upgrade, then the extra fuel mileage is just a bonus.

    Just a small point of reference. I drive a 2011 BMW 328xi sedan (230 hp/200 lb ft of torque). I average about 21 - 22 mpg with it. I had to bring it in for service and was given a 2011 335d (265 hp/425 lb ft of torque) as a loaner car. This diesel BMW was an absolute monster. A rocket taking off from stop, effortless passing on the highway, quiet & smooth. Oh yeah, I averaged 32 mpg with it by just driving how I normally drive (75-80 mph on the highway).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,710
    good point about engine upgrades.'

    again, look at your 3 series. You could have gone with a 335 instead, and paid many thousands of $$ for a bigger, more powerful engine. Even after you adjust for different equipment, there is a pretty hefty premium for an engine upgrade.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,388
    True, but look at the price difference of the Passat (2.5) & the TDi. Drive the 2 cars back to back & tell me the TDi isn't worth it.

    There was NO WAY I was going for a 335xi. I had to pull out the heavy artillery to convince the wife we should ditch our perfectly fine 2010 TSX (which was 1/2 paid for) in order for me to lease my 2011 328xi.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • pegasus17pegasus17 Posts: 536
    The Passat is a completely different (and much better) car with the TDI engine versus the anemic 2.5. Unfortunately, the price difference (approx. 5k) is too high (for me)...
  • hill02hill02 Posts: 3
    At this point I've read a ridiculous amount of bias online reviews concerning the 2013 Nissan altima and the new Ford Fusion. "Ford haters" that seem to comment on EVERY fusion review claim the vehicle is basically..well crap, just because it's a Ford(American made watch out!).Those who claim they've recently purchased the new altima complain about the car shaking, along with seating and steering issues. Both cars have great safety ratings and there's really no price difference with the vehicles being stripped or fully loaded. I've personally seen both vehicles interior and exterior in person and in the looks category the Ford Fusion wins. Pictures do this car no justice! My only problem with purchasing this vehicle are the recent recall scares(specifically the engine fires!) leaving me to believe that if this car already has 2 recalls in the past few months it has been out, will there be more later? This led me to go for the safer option, which is, the Nissan Altima. The updated altima is safe and attractive in a Nissan way, but is that all the car has to offer? I want something new and fresh! So the point of this is, I need some more views people have on my personal debate between the Ford fusion and the Nissan altima. Which car would you choose and why? Tell me about your experience with driving or owning one of these vehicles! In the end I know the decision is only mine, but I would like to be completely aware of any issues to look out for before choosing a car!
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    Why are you limiting yourself just to those two?

    What about the other good choices, such as Passat, Optima, Sonata, Accord, Mazda6, etc.?

    My 2 cents....

    Ford does have some quality problems with the Fusion right now. I personally wouldn't buy one in the first year.

    The Altima is also made in America. It's probably a better choice right now in terms of quality and reliability.

    The Passat, Optima, Sonata, and Accord are also made right here in the USA.

    What are you looking for in a car? For instance, how would you rank these things in terms of most important to least important: quality/reliability, style, interior room, safety, handling, acceleration, visibility, resale value, etc. What are your top 3-4 out of those—in order? That would give the people here a better idea of how to try to give you advice.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Seconded, especially the new 6 with the Skyactiv powertrain (high FE and gorgeous) and the Accord. The others are good also, leased a Sonata GLS for my wife last November and she loves it, but it's now one of the oldest designs in the mid-sized class (hard to believe).
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    Also, in terms of the Fusion being American made, that's actually not always the case. I think about half of the Fusions sold here are made in Mexico, and about half are made in Michigan. You'd have to look on the window sticker of the particular car to see where exactly it's made.

    In other words, an Altima, Passat, Optima, Accord, or Sonata might be more "made in USA" than a Ford Fusion.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    All Fusions are built in Mexico until later this year when Flat Rock comes online in Michigan.

    I just bought a 2013 Fusion. This is my 3rd new vehicle and all were new models purchased within the first few months of production. My 06 Fusion was the 2nd one off the truck at the dealer and the only thing I had to do to it over 7.5 years and 60K miles was replace one door handle and change the oil, filter and tires.

    The quality problems with the 2013 Fusion are assembly errors or parts being out of spec or defective from the supplier. Once corrected those problems won't reappear. For example the major delay last October was due to a headlamp problem where the supplier didn't cure the plastic properly. These problems, like the 1.6L fires, appear almost immediately and are fixed just as quickly.

    I don't have any long term reliability issues with any of the current crop of midsized sedans. The worst vehicle today is better than the best vehicle 20 years ago.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    What was the cause of the 1.6l fires?
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    edited January 2013
    Thanks for the info re: where Fusions are made.

    I agree with what you say in that almost all cars today are way beyond what was available 20 years ago.

    The Fusion is a great looking car. And many tests say the handling and performance of the Fusion are both very good.

    I imagine you're probably right about the quality issues. Ford hit a few bumps in the road, but no doubt they are working overtime to fix them.

    There are a lot of great choices for midsize buyers, and the Fusion is definitely in the mix if the quality issues are mostly resolved at this point.
  • romil01romil01 Posts: 75
    Drove a 2014 Mazda6 Grand Touring today. While the exterior is gorgeous and it drove nicely, the interior is nowhere near as nice as the new Accord. The driver's seat felt hard, whereas the Accord's was really plush. Also, the Accord's center stack is much more modern looking. The nav system in the new 6 is pretty antiquated looking. An Accord EX-L V-6 with Nav is slightly more expensive than the Mazda6 GT 4-cylinder, but it seems to be the higher quality vehicle, and the extra power from the V-6 is nice. Yes the Mazda gets better mileage, but I prefer the power. It's too bad Honda didn't do a little more with the exterior of the Accord. It's not ugly, but it doesn't stand out. The new Mazda6 easily trumps all other midsize sedans in looks, even the new Fusion, the Sonata, and the Optima.
  • I can't help but think there might be a ?slight ? exaggeration here....14 hours at 5K ... I just can't figure where, other than a special track where this could possibly be done. If that civic was able to do that even would be pushing credibility some. Allowing for some "writer's license" though, that would really be great.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 258
    I can't help but think there might be a ?slight ? exaggeration here....14 hours at 5K ... I just can't figure where, other than a special track where this could possibly be done. If that civic was able to do that even would be pushing credibility some. Allowing for some "writer's license" though, that would really be great.

    I, too,chuckled at that until I realized the bridge from San Francisco to Honolulu must now be complete.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    The Fusion should be about as reliable as any of the other choices. Cars are just like that today.

    One small gripe about the Fusion...with the longest wheelbase (over 112"), it should have full-size room, like the Accord and Sonata do. The Passat with 2" less wheelbase is cavernous by comparison. The Ford may be high style, but that doesn't explain the lack of interior room. It is not lower or narrower than any of its rivals. Its back seat hardly even trumps the Malibu's, which rides on a wheelbase many inches shorter.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    edited January 2013
    Personally I prefer the interior esp. the dash of the Mazda6 over the Accord's. The Accord's dash is too over-styled for my taste. I prefer the simpler lines of the Mazda6's dash. It reminds me of the dash of some German luxury cars. Accord's dash... looks like some Japanese engineers were trying too hard. I think the interior styling of the Mazda6 will wear better over time.

    As for exterior... no comparison there, the Accord looks like any Accord from the past 15 years or so. Not bad, and the Genesis-like rear end is an improvement over last generation. But nothing to heighten the pulse rate like the Mazda6, Fusion, Sonata, and Optima. At least the Accord is less boring outside than the Impala... I mean, Passat! ;)
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