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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    My neighbor has a 2010 w/the 6speed auto and it was replaced at 52k. Something about a solenoid. Took three weeks for the dealer to get it fixed.

    Is there a TSB or recall?

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    Here is a link to my pics:

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • When we were shopping for a new car in 2011 we completely wrote off the Fusion due to the extensively reported transmission issues.
    Ford's reluctance to correct the fault kept me away from the brand to this day.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    It is a pain in the A** to just post a picture here. Not fun.

    try this link:

    and this one:

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,852
    That's a pretty inaccurate post, other than the Fusion using a 6 speed automatic transmission.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    The trans problems include harsh shifting from 2 to 3, and "flares" which have other symptoms. :sick:

    Here is a link to the Fusion forums thread where topic is discussed in detail. deo/page-7

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • The Ford Fusion sold more than 30,000 units in March, and more than 80,000 units in the first quarter of this year, breaking both its all time monthly sales records and its all time quarterly sales records for the first time in Fusion history, putting it in 3rd place behind the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord, see the full article here:
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,875
    edited April 2013
    Yeah, it's a sizzling race in the midsize market. I think the Fusion might surprise on the upside and end up in the top 3 by the end of the calendar year. Take a look at these numbers from TSX at

    Altima 37,763 -8%
    Camry 37,663 -8.2%
    Accord 36,504 +41.4%; PHEV 26
    Fusion 30,284 +6%
    Malibu 18,539 -22.4%
    Sonata 18,031
    200 16,593 +11%
    Optima 14,366
    Avenger 12,439 +33%
    Passat 9,521 -5.1%
    6 6,102 -22.3%
    Legacy 4,400 -18.3%
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,875
    The midsize cars that are slumping in March include the Malibu, down c.22% from March of last year. The Sonata is also down 22%.

    VW has the capacity to make c. 170,000 Passats at their factory in TN, but right now it looks like they'll be closer to 120,000 or so. The VW has the least impressive standard engine out of all of the midsize cars.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,875
    edited April 2013
    Sales of most 2013 midsize cars began around Sept. of 2012, and most of the model year will be sold out by Sept. of 2013.

    In other words, we are about halfway through the model year. It's possible to make some rough guesses as to where things are going to end up for the model year. Here are my guesses:

    Camry: c. 450,000 (probably the worst midsize car of the top sellers, but Toyota will give them away to stay #1)
    Accord: c. 400,000
    Altima: c. 400,000
    Fusion: c. 400,000

    As you can see, I'm guessing there might be a roughly 3-way tie for second place. The competition is going to be brutal, with great deals on good cars making the customer King (and Queen).

    Big drop after the top 4....My guesses

    Sonata: c. 220,000 (Sonata is slumping, needs an update asap)
    Malibu: c. 200,000 (ditto)
    200: c. 200,000 (big move up)
    Optima: c. 170,000 (holding steady)
    Passat: c.140,000 (I think incentives + diesels + V6s will keep them in the game)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,875
    edited April 2013
    I thought Ford was already building the Fusion at Flat Rock, MI, but that won't happen until this Fall, according this this article. And so my guess above was clearly wrong. I don't think Ford will be able to make and sell more than c. 300,000 Fusions for model year 2013. During model year 2014, however, Ford should be able to make 450,000—if there's demand for that many....

    Ford turned in strong March results, with deliveries up 9.0% on a daily selling rate basis to 231,127 vehicles, volume not seen since May 2007.

    Several new Ford models posted gains, with the Fusion midsize sedan up 9.9% and the Escape cross/utility vehicle rising 32.3%.

    The 30,284 Fusion deliveries in March mark the first time the car has eclipsed the 30,000 mark in monthly sales since its introduction in 2005, but Ford officials hint that volume may not be sustainable due to capacity constraints.

    “We’ve seen record customer sales and strong demand in California and Florida,” Ken Czubay, vice president-U.S. marketing, sales and service, says of markets where the auto maker has struggled in the past. “That will begin to place some constraints in supply starting in coming months.”

    Ford currently builds the Fusion at its Hermosillo, Mexico, plant alongside the Lincoln MKZ midsize sedan. Plans call for additional capacity to be added at the Flat Rock, MI, facility this fall.

    Czubay, in a conference call today with media and analysts to discuss March sales results, does not disclose current Fusion inventory levels, saying only that levels won’t go “critically low,” but days’ supply will “drop lower than generally accepted.”
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    It burns my a** that the Camry stays the sales king. I know they have a loyal following. Their customers feel that they don't break down, and are a good value. Customer PERCEPTION is everything, (and so is a $179 lease payment).

    I can understand the lease, and the need to feel "safe" with a car decision,
    but why do people buy cars with hubcaps and greyhound bus quality interior for $26,000??? I just don't get it. There is so much out there to choose from before laying down my head at the slaughter with Mr. Toyoda.

    Also, I have noticed that nobody posting here is a Sonata fan. I agree with the need of a refresh, post haste, if Hyundai wants to stay at (or near) the top.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • I find it hysterical that people justify their car purchases by touting sales numbers.
    Lemmings pitch themselves off cliffs because all the other Lemmings are doing the same. :surprise:
  • So the Fusion dropped back down to #4? I thought it was still at #3! Oh well, it's great that they're selling alot of them, but personally I'd be happier if they stopped selling them! I'm still enjoying my newfound celebrity status, and most people thinking that I'm driving a new Jaguar XF! Now that the new Jaguar XFRS has been revealed, I find it quite hilarious that the only major visible difference between that car and my Fusion is an Aston Martin grille and a different spoiler, otherwise they're nearly identical and they look like they're fraternal twins!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Also, I have noticed that nobody posting here is a Sonata fan.

    I have a 2013 Sonata (my wife's car)... if that counts. ;)

    I've posted here before that I realize the Sonata is not at the top of the heap anymore, as it's one of the oldest mid-sized designs now, but for a $47 a month, nothing out of pocket lease (after trading in a beat-up 2007 Sonata), hard to beat it. I'd take it any day over the Camry, and although the latest designs have some advantages over the Sonata, it has a nice combination of style, features, comfort, power, and fuel economy that make it a very enjoyable ride.

    Anyway, the Sonata is scheduled for a refresh for 2014. We'll see what Hyundai comes up with.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Good point. Perhaps the top car in the class right now, the Mazda6, has dismal sales numbers. And the Legacy is a very nice car, and doesn't sell very well.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,875
    edited April 2013
    Tundra: That was not the point at all! Lmao. We were making fun of and critiquing the car that won—the Camry.

    But here's what the editor of Automobile Magazine said in summarizing their comparison test of midsize cars:

    "....We have driven the new 2013 Honda Accord, and it is magnificent. Two weeks ago, most of the staff abandoned the office for a unique, bracketed, head-to-head test of eight mid-size cars, arguably the finest group of family sedans ever on the market at one time. Go to or download our May iPad issue to read the report. I will tell you one thing: the 2013 Honda Accord blew everyone away. It's been a long time coming."
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    Just taking a wild guess here, but I suspect some of the Mazda6 numbers could be due to them releasing the 2014 MY very early. Maybe lots of shoppers holding off buying the 2013 and waiting for the 2014 to become widely available? Dunno.


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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Probably. But the Mazda6 has never sold in big numbers compared to most competitors, despite being a very competitive car. It certainly will never match the sales numbers of the likes of the Camry, Accord, Altima, and Fusion, since Mazda can't ship enough cars over here even if they could sell them.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    edited April 2013
    Mazda can't ship enough cars over here even if they could sell them.

    Yeah, they just don't have the capacity to be in the top sales tier. That was also true when they weren't made in Japan but in Flat Rock, Mi. They are a smaller company, smaller advertising budget, fewer dealers and always marketed to a somewhat smaller segment looking for a sporty drive in a family hauler body. I always chuckle when people say "they will never sell as many 6's as Camry, Accord or Altima". Really??? It's kind of like Mcdonalds and Wendys. Wendy's will concievably never sell as many burgers for much the same reasons I've mentioned but it doesn't mean they can't make a profit or that their burgers are inferior.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,852
    The 6F35 was first used in 2009 in the Escape/?mariner/Tribute.
    I thought it was earlier, but I guess that was a different trans.
    We have a 2009 Escape, which I knew has that trans.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,852
    I kind of feel like because of the cheap 2 year lease deals, reliability is a tougher call.
    Not too much usually goes wrong in 20-30k miles, and after that the next buyer doesn't really know what the car's past history is.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    I found out that the Optima's sold in Canada are made in Korea, not in the USA. Why? Why would Kia ship cars 6500 miles from Korea instead of 1300 miles from the US? High export tariffs/taxes?

    On Ford's alleged "big problem" with it's 6F35 6 speed automatic...I never even heard of it until I saw a post here. I looked it up on the Fusion forums and was able to confirm there were problems with Fusions and Escapes since late 2009, but I can't find info on what percentage of cars are actually affected.

    On the Mazda 6, I agree with the host here that it is a 2014 model and can't compete yet in sufficient numbers with the big players in this segment. I CAN say this. I see a WHOLE LOT of Mazda 3's out there, and if the 6 is similarly successful, then they will be a major player indeed.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited April 2013
    Canadian regulations are different enough from the U.S. regulations in terms of little worthless junk like lights (same but not govt approved) and gauges (KM vs U.S.) and bumpers and all of that that it takes too long to re-tool and have a second assembly process for Canadian cars. The Canadian cars are hardly any different from the cars that they sell to Europe and the rest of the world, so they have U.S. plants essentially making U.S. versions.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Your car looks great. Continued good luck with it.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 399
    I think it may also have to do with the fact that the factory can only turn out enough for the US market, Canadian regs aren't that different anymore BTW, and if they were made in the US ( don't know if they need a certain North American content for this though) they would be part of the auto pact ( and free trade agreement) and not have duty, of course I think we have some sort of free trade agreement with Korea too so who knows? Our current government is very big on having free trade agreements with everyone, so that all our labour can be shipped offshore ( just like the states were trying to do).
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    I understand, but my car (and most others) can switch to metric w/a push of a button, and is also available with DRL's.

    A new regulation in Quebec requires car owners to outfit their cars with winter/snow tires that have a special symbol stamped on the sidewall that it meets certain winter weather performance standards. So basically the Canadian government requires a substantial investment by its citizens for a set of snow tires. Most would have them mounted on separate set of rims in order for use to be practical.

    This is in response to the amount of needless deaths /injuries, and property damage which costs millions. FYI.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    Given Honda's trouble with AT in the past I suspected that there will be issues with new CVT. And sure enough there are. From I what I read new Accord does not look like better choice than Fusion from reliability point of view and I have yet to see reported problems with 2013 Fusion which has an advantage of using transmission which is in production 4 years already. I suspect that new Mazda6 may also have troublesome transmission and engine given it is brand new vehicle. Saying that choosing car on predicted (by CR) reliability alone may not work well if it was redesigned and have new components.

    It is interesting that nobody mentions Passat. I remember not so long ago people were dying to get their hands on Passat. Not anymore?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906

    (Shiny New Ball syndrome)

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