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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    No one can tell you what is the best car for you.

    BUT, do not get hung up on depeciation in the first couple years. If you plan on keeping a car for 5 years, the depreciated value after 5 years is what could cause you concern. The depreciation in the first year or two means nothing, it's how much depreciation is anticipated at the time you plan to sell. And depreciation averaged over 5 years or more is likely to be not much difference per year. If you replace your car every 2 or 3 years depreciation should be considered but so should leasing rather than buying.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Plus, most cars' depreciation depends on how close to list price you paid in the first place. Heavily discounted cars will tend to have greater depreciation.

    However, it is usually a wash. If you pay more for it at the beginning, you better damn well expect more on re-sale in 2 or 3 or 5 years. If you were given a several thousand dollar discount at the beginning, then you will get less as well on re-sale.

    I wonder why some people think tying up more of their money at the beginning--in order to get more money on re-sale--is such a draw. More or less, you end up with the same money, whether you take a huge discount at the beginning, or reap a lot of money at re-sale. So, buy what you want and don't worry about re-sale. In most cases, you are out about the same money.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    I JUST BOUGHT A CAR (which I’ll tell you about first) THEN I have to tell you about the most horrible, insulting and infuriating experience I’ve ever had at a car dealership- AND IT ALSO HAPPENED TODAY!!! Read on to hear the whole story...

    GREAT NEWS- I am now the very happy owner of a beautiful Vortex Blue Acura TSX V6 with only 29k miles on it and like new inside and out! It is fully backed by Acura’s CPO Program including Powertrain Coverage to 100k miles. I love it!

    I only paid $22,500 plus TTT, as we had previously agreed. But I still had to see if I could push a little for just a little bit more...and since we had agreed on the price of $22,500, I couldn’t try to negotiate the price any lower, it wouldn’t be very gentlemanly. Instead, I told them the deal was contingent upon them adding the Rear Decklid Spoiler (including installation) at no additional cost (the spoiler retails for just over $400 and installation usually runs at least $150, so I got an additional $550 value for free)! I also wanted to add the Dark Metal Trim to the steering wheel; center console and door switch trim. I agreed to buy those items at cost if they would install for free!
    The parts were $234, about $180 off retail and I saved $175 in labor.
    I paid $22,500 plus 6.5% TAVT (Georgia now charges a Title Ad Valorem Tax instead of Sales Tax) and $66 for Tag/Title processing, making it $24,028.50 OTD! I paid the $234 for the interior trim package separately....

    I brought the car home with me tonight, but they had to order the Rear Spoiler and the Dark Metal Interior Trim. I’m taking back on Tuesday for those to be installed. They will provide an ILX as a loaner while they’re installing those items. I have never driven the ILX before, so it will be an interesting experience. I feel confident that there will be some similarities compared to the 2013 Civic, but that’s not intended as an insult...just a fact.

    The salesman, sales manager and service manager all made me feel very welcome and and comfortable with my purchase decision! They will provide a loaner vehicle any time I bring my car in for service, which is uncommon these days. The service manager also spent at least 20 minutes discussing my CPO Warranty Coverage and making sure that I was comfortable checking all the vital fluids, etc. They are all very polite, friendly and exceedingly professional. It felt a lot like the time I took my former employer’s Lexus LS460 in for the 60k Service.....but with a little less @ss kissing, which is fine by me!

    SO that is my HAPPY news, but prior to arriving at the Acura dealership, I had one of the most horrible experiences of my entire life and I am still madder than hell!!!

    I decided to go for one more look and test drive in the Optima and the TSX before making a final choice today. I went to the Kia dealer first and the salesman I’ve been working with greeted me and we sat down and chatted for a few. I told him that I would be buying a car today, but I still wasn’t certain which one it would be. Without any further discussion, he grabbed got up and grabbed the keys and tossed them to me. He told me to take it out for as long as it took to help me make my decision.

    I ran to the restroom and headed toward the Optima, when I was intercepted by a fat, sloppy looking man with disheveled hair, an untucked shirt (that was a few sizes too small as well) and he had one of those nasty tobacco pouches between his bottom lip and teeth (like a Skoal Bandit or something)! He introduced himself very forcefully as the New Car Sales Manager and I realized what was going on! He was “The Closer” and it would be all high-pressure from this point forward...

    My salesman had told him I was leaning toward purchasing an Acura and he asked me exactly what I was looking at over at the Acura dealer. I told him it was a CPO 2010 TSX V6 and he didn’t even let me finish speaking before he started insulting the TSX. He said he couldn’t believe I was considering a ‘used’ car over the new Optima, but I told him it was also at least $6000 cheaper. Then he told me that Acura doesn’t ever honor their CPO warranties and he actually argued with me about whether the TSX V6 even existed!!! I pulled it up on my phone to shut him up! Then he said the Optima’s 2.0 Turbo would bury the 3.5L V6 in the TSX. But the TSX is about 0.5sec faster to 60mph, 3-4 seconds faster to 100mph, stops from 60mph 15 feet sooner than the Optima and gets better fuel economy by up to 4mpg on average.

    I told him that I had spent many hours researching both cars and quite a bit of time driving both of them also. I also told him that insulting the Acura would NOT help me make a decision; it would only frustrate and piss me off, making a decision difficult if not impossible! He walked over to the car with me and got in the passenger seat to go with me. I told him that I really needed to be alone to focus on the car and he told me that their insurance prohibited anyone test driving alone! I told him that I had already driven it three times, and the last two times I was alone and kept if for several hours! I also told him that I had signed a ‘loaner’ form on those occasions, assuming liability for causing any damage or injury to anyone else. He said that wasn’t possible under Georgia Insurance Law....I reached into my wallet and pulled out my Property and Casualty Insurance License issued by the State of Georgia which allows me to legally work as an Insurance Agent! He got visibly pissed off, slammed the passenger door and walked away. I was ready to walk back to my CX-9 and make a bit of a scene tearing out of the parking lot (the front tires will roast and make serious smoke if you turn off the Traction Control first then floor the gas....or so I’ve heard.....

    But I decided to drive it over the to Acura dealer, which was about 20 miles away. I parked the cars side by side and asked several of the guys who work there what they thought (some picked the Optima) and even got the input of an older couple who was shopping for a new Acura. I told my salesman what had just happened and he saw that I was still very angry from the experience because my face was red and I was still a bit shaky, not to mention my ‘foul language filter’ wasn’t working and every other word either broke a Commandment or rhymed with ‘truck’!

    He suggested that we write down all the pros and cons, which is something I usually do in a situation like this. Ultimately, even if I liked the Optima just as much as the TSX or even a little better, the real problem was that I no longer felt comfortable at that dealership.....and I had a gut feeling that it would get much worse before it was all me psychic!

    I was gone for almost two hours and I parked the Optima next to my CX-9. I was very tempted to jump in and leave, but my salesman and the @sshole Sales Manager were already outside the door and walking t
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,328
    First & foremost, congrats on your TSX! You'll enjoy years of fun driving & trouble free ownership. You got a really nice car for $22,500. Enjoy it.

    Even if you had liked the KIA better, I wouldn't have bought the optima from that particular dealer. Write a letter to KIA and tell them all the gory details & that your treatment fom this particular gentleman is what ultimately pushed you to ake your decision to buy an Acura.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,877
    Congrats on the car!

    Honda/Acura quality is tops.

    Enjoy the heck out of it, and forget about the jerks as much as possible.
  • Huh, I achieved that mileage from a 2004 Taurus with a V6.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 257
    I think the best thing you could have done is to run from the Kia dealership. It's been my experience that the best treatment you will ever get from a dealership is from the sales office - they have the most to gain. If that was how they treated you, you could simply imagine what to expect from the service department.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    Wow, someone bragging on an ex rental Taurus. :P
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    It took 3 visits for Fairfax Kia Service to get my center console latch fixed, and in the end, they still had to take one off a new (EX) car on the lot. 1 time they broke it more, second time they installed one w/o leather, and third time I went up there I meant business so.....It was just a plastic latch!!! Do I want them fixing lets say, a REAL problem? NO!

    So, I totally understand wanting Honda/Acura sales and service! Congrats! TSX is a good car. C/D likes it too.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Posts: 74
    edited April 2013
    It was actually a state vehicle and reliable as a hammer for 190,000+ miles.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    A 2004 Taurus is like a Model T compared to any modern sedan.
    At least you didn't buy one retail.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • Its a vehicle from the past. The point was it was getting the same mileage as the "modern sedan" MPG that I replied to.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,721
    Huh, I achieved that mileage from a 2004 Taurus with a V6.

    My wife had a couple of '03 Taurus company cars. She never averaged much more than 22mpg with her mostly rural/highway driving. Her current '11 Taurus with a lot more weight and an extra 100 hp has averaged 25mpg over the 45k miles she's put on it.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    The Taurus has been around since 1986. Back then, the 86' Taurus was a radical new design. Ford took a big risk, and it paid off big time. I just looked at the chronology of it's models, and saw that the 86 -91 model was offered with a 2.5 liter 4 with a whopping 90 hp! We have come a LONG WAY PEOPLE!!

    I owned a 94 SHO, (3.2 24v Yamaha V6) and a 96 24v 3.0 Duratech. They were good cars back then, and the Yamaha SHO engine was just awesome.

    I still see a lot of 00-07 models on the road. Before the current model, they were very much mid size sedans and Ford sold a huge amount of them.
    Then, In 2005, Taurus production tapered off, as the Fusion was poised to take it's place. Finally, in 2007 production ceased. The 08 to 09 models did not sell well as a 500 or under the Taurus label. Ok, moving on.....

    There are a LOT of mid size sedans used as rental cars, including the Taurus, Camry, Accord, Optima, Fusion, etc.

    I found the Hertz sales site that was loaded with 2012 Accord LX's starting at $16 and ending at about $18!! That is a pretty good deal on a 1 year old car!

    Look, I am not saying the Taurus was a great car, but it looked good and was priced right for the times. I don't think we would be driving todays mid-size marvels w/o the Taurus-susses and Intrepid's of their day.
    That's enough outta me!!! :P

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    I remember riding one when I was was great.
  • Now THAT is funny, good one Ivan!
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    Mine didn't have 10 speeds, but I did have 20" rims, alloy frame..... Lol

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jpp5862jpp5862 DenverPosts: 1,081
    Yeah but it's still an early 2000's Taurus. There's no glory in driving one of those 190,000 miles.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    edited April 2013
    Dude, I totally understand. I just had a really good time with my SHO. Do you know how modern engines have plastic covers so we can't see all the vacuum lines and other such ugly-ness?

    Well, that Yamaha V6 was just gorgeous. Here:

    It was a work of art, and a damn quick car. It revved to 7,000 RPM. Awesome for 1994. Also, the 225 HP was a conservative figure. More like 250. Also, it had a great JBL stereo, and handled pretty good. It was no Integra R....but I'm just sayin'!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,721
    edited April 2013
    I'm with you on the SHO Yammy v6. That was a gem and did look awesome too. IIRC, the engine was capable of far more than 7k rpm, but the belt driven accessories were not.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    While we are on this SHO topic, I had a Gen I(89), a Gen II(92) and my wife had a Gen III(96).
    I wanted a Gen IV, but it I don't need 350+ horsepower and the Fusion is a better choice for me.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    Did your wife's GEN3 have major engine problems? I heard it was about cam failures and that even the "fix" didn't hold up well. Damn shame.... Cuz that engine is a looker too.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    It was a very reliable car. The only thing that really went on it in about 80k miles was the fuel pump and that was replaced under warranty. Until a few years ago, I still used to see it around. I didn't want her to trade it, but I guess she had enough of the dirty looks from other PTO members for driving a black snarly car with chrome rims. :D
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    A reporter wants to talk with a Ford Fusion buyer who previously owned a Japanese sedan. If you fit the bill and are willing to share your story, please email before Friday, April 19, 2013 and provide a few words about your experience.


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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,491
    Kia just posted this about a week ago. The front and rear fascia's have been updated with new LED lighting options, body colored fog light surrounds, different rear diffuser, side vent styling, and on the SXL there is a different front clip with quad-LED fog lights.

    Inside there is a new blind spot warning system that I personally would like to have, and a rear sensor so you don't run down your kids bike backing out of the driveway, especially when there is a kid still attached to said bike.
    Here's the pics:

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    They missed one current styling trend, integrated exhaust outlets.
    I remember everyone being up in arms when the IS-F reintroduced them.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Saw a new Regal yesterday in a parking lot. Dual exhaust. Couldn't believe how rich it must have been running. Both pipes really black and sooty..even leaving the SS finish bezel trim all sputter-stained with blobs of soot. Wasn't impressed.
    But what caught my eye originally was the cars lines. Knew it was a Buick from the front but had to go to the back to see it was a Regal..that's when I saw the poor state of tune..
    Owner is likely clueless unless they must be questioning the FE.
    Not and improved is good.
  • The Regal's front grill just screams geriatric. It almost makes the car look like it has under bite. :P
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