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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,036
    andres3 said:


    Do you know how MP4 differs from MP3? Maybe it has improved? I know even at 256 kpbs MP3's still sounded "dead" to me even in a moving vehicle.

    Apparently mp4 allows any codec and for itunes it's AAC. AAC is supposed to be better than mp3s. I know the 256Kbps AAC files that I listen to are close to CD quality. It's good enough that I don't need to go to FLAC or WAV files. I just rip or download to itunes and copy to a usb drive.

    I do notice a bigger discrepancy with Satellite on the MKX with the Revel audio than on my Fusion with the cheap Sony system. And the amount of compression varies by channel and possibly by time of day as well. Also don't forget the source quality - most of those 60s and early 70s songs just didn't sound good out of the studio compared to newer stuff.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,380
    edited September 19
    berri said:

    I don't think FLAC is yet widely available. There is software to convert FLAC to WAV, but I don't know of the opposite. Not sure how you can upgrade music like that other than giving it more presence I suppose. I may be wrong, but I think that once the soundbites are gone, they are gone and can only be artificially reinstated.

    FLAC can be both high resolution (similar to DVD-Audio discs; usually at 96KB/second or even more), and regular old CD WAV style at 48K/second. So if it can be converted, it isn't upgraded, just nothing is lost in the lossless compression format. How can you compress and still be lossless, well that is the magic of lossless formats (or at least the value to them) depending on how well they are implemented. I've pretty much liked all the lossless formats. You can definitely fit more than 14 songs per 700 MB (CD Disc Storage Limit) with lossless compression formats, but not 1,000 songs like MP3's.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 58,048
    edited September 19
    suydam said:

    akirby said:

    I used to drive a high cube van delivering furniture in college with NO rear visibility other than the side mirrors. All this "poor rear visibility" complaining is amusing.

    Agreed.
    Some of us are --ahem! -- older than we used to be.
    So your windows shrunk as you aged? :p

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,380
    js06gv said:

    andres3 said:

    Getting back to mid-size sedans, any explanation why Kia/Hyundai de-turned the 2.0T or did they just start rating them more accurately for HP? It seems they've gone backwards since years ago. Is it just a lie they corrected, or have they really been tuned slower for more MPG?

    I think what I remember reading was that the changes were made for better drivability/smoothness and better torque at a lower band. Having had a 2014 with 274 hp and now a 2016 with 245 hp, I can confirm that there is a slightly noticeable drop in power. At first I think I had convinced myself that there was no difference, but as I got more seat time I could tell. I'm sure the engine is smoother, but then again the entire package is much more refined than before so don't know how much I can really attribute to the engine alone. From about 0 to 40, the old car was a real screamer but you also heard every bit of it.

    MPG wise, the new car is up 2 on the city cycle to 22 and 1 on the highway to 32 and my calculations say this is legit. On all highway runs, the 2016 will easily get 32-33 while the best I ever saw in the 2014 was 29.

    I would say the new 1.6T has strengths in power for its size, but a weakness would definitely be noise and exhaust sound (or lack thereof). It could definitely be more refined and smoother; those are not its strengths. It does have a pretty good power to size ratio, and it does deliver solid fuel economy (28-29 MPG in mixed driving).
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,994
    on XM, most of mine were listed, but I also like the Loft.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,182

    suydam said:

    akirby said:

    I used to drive a high cube van delivering furniture in college with NO rear visibility other than the side mirrors. All this "poor rear visibility" complaining is amusing.

    Agreed.
    Some of us are --ahem! -- older than we used to be.
    So your windows shrunk as you aged? :p
    That's a better explanation than my aging eyes! :D
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 4,895
  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 4,895
    edited September 19

    2016 BMW X-5 35i, 2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2012 MB ML350

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,930
    edited September 20
    Since the 2018 Camry is getting mixed reviews, my guess is that once the 2018 Accord comes out (on Oct. 18th) it's probably going to be best-in-class for the next year or so. Perhaps the truly stand-out model is going to be the Sport 2.0 turbo with the all-new 10-speed automatic. This model is going to have an engine similar to the Type-R Civic, but it'll take regular gas, plus you won't need to shift it. For an msrp of probably about $29.5k, this car will likely perform almost as well as an Audi A6 2.0T, but for about 20k less
  • The 2018 Accord will be a top rated vehicle but I'm pretty sure the people over at Audi aren't to concerned
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,994
    the 2.0 is probably going to be a quick package but I don't think it will be close to 29.5K. IIRC the 2.0 sport is going to be loaded up, with the 1.5l being relatively skimpy equipment, like the current model.

    I will look at the 1.5 sport as the stickshift option, though I doubt you will find many on the lot, ever, but if I decide stick with the AT, will likely go for the EX model instead.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • My lease is up next May. I too if I could find a 17 Sport Manuel in Nov. will buy it . Probably would need red to pull trigger.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,182
    john4545 said:

    The 2018 Accord will be a top rated vehicle but I'm pretty sure the people over at Audi aren't to concerned

    I'm pretty sure the Honda folks aren't too concerned about Audi. The Accord sells, what, around 30,000 a month and the Audi sedans together barely top 5000.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • john4545john4545 Posts: 47
    edited September 20
    The Audi A6 needs a facelift in the looks dept. Looks like something my Dad would drive . Still a excellent world class luxury vehicle with ride, handling, power and Tech features. Buyers shopping in that price range are not considering a Honda Accord. Audi 6 buyers might venture into the BMW 5, Lexus GS, MB E 400, Hyundai G80, Lincoln's MKZ . I'm sure I missed a few more . My Boss has the 17, Audi S6. . WHAT A CAR drove it several times OMG.. to bad I live in the land of the average man . I'm thinking a 2017 Honda Sport looks sharp and would be a great choice for my next ride .. Any suggestions on something comparable to the Accord Manuel Sport. Thinking the Bmw 3 might be out of my price range?
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 6,689
    benjaminh said:

    Since the 2018 Camry is getting mixed reviews, my guess is that once the 2018 Accord comes out (on Oct. 18th) it's probably going to be best-in-class for the next year or so. Perhaps the truly stand-out model is going to be the Sport 2.0 turbo with the all-new 10-speed automatic. This model is going to have an engine similar to the Type-R Civic, but it'll take regular gas, plus you won't need to shift it. For an msrp of probably about $29.5k, this car will likely perform almost as well as an Audi A6 2.0T, but for about 20k less

    Well, let's wait and see. While I'm sure the automotive press will be breathless in its praise for the Accord upon introduction, Honda has had a bit of a spotty record of late with its new vehicles. The Ody van has been disappointing and any time Honda rolls out a new automatic transmission it is a situation that requires time in the hands of consumers to ensure it is durable. And of course every other manufacturer responds shortly thereafter. Time will tell.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,380
    ab348 said:

    benjaminh said:

    Since the 2018 Camry is getting mixed reviews, my guess is that once the 2018 Accord comes out (on Oct. 18th) it's probably going to be best-in-class for the next year or so. Perhaps the truly stand-out model is going to be the Sport 2.0 turbo with the all-new 10-speed automatic. This model is going to have an engine similar to the Type-R Civic, but it'll take regular gas, plus you won't need to shift it. For an msrp of probably about $29.5k, this car will likely perform almost as well as an Audi A6 2.0T, but for about 20k less

    Well, let's wait and see. While I'm sure the automotive press will be breathless in its praise for the Accord upon introduction, Honda has had a bit of a spotty record of late with its new vehicles. The Ody van has been disappointing and any time Honda rolls out a new automatic transmission it is a situation that requires time in the hands of consumers to ensure it is durable. And of course every other manufacturer responds shortly thereafter. Time will tell.
    If the Honda 2.0T is well-done, and the 10-speed Auto isn't too slushy, then Honda might just have a big winner on its hands! A car like that should probably be around 29-30K. I can't imagine it competing well in the $35K arena.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,994
    That replaces the current V6, and the EXL version of that with sensing is around 33k

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 4,895
    edited September 20
    andres3 said:

    ab348 said:

    benjaminh said:

    Since the 2018 Camry is getting mixed reviews, my guess is that once the 2018 Accord comes out (on Oct. 18th) it's probably going to be best-in-class for the next year or so. Perhaps the truly stand-out model is going to be the Sport 2.0 turbo with the all-new 10-speed automatic. This model is going to have an engine similar to the Type-R Civic, but it'll take regular gas, plus you won't need to shift it. For an msrp of probably about $29.5k, this car will likely perform almost as well as an Audi A6 2.0T, but for about 20k less

    Well, let's wait and see. While I'm sure the automotive press will be breathless in its praise for the Accord upon introduction, Honda has had a bit of a spotty record of late with its new vehicles. The Ody van has been disappointing and any time Honda rolls out a new automatic transmission it is a situation that requires time in the hands of consumers to ensure it is durable. And of course every other manufacturer responds shortly thereafter. Time will tell.
    If the Honda 2.0T is well-done, and the 10-speed Auto isn't too slushy, then Honda might just have a big winner on its hands! A car like that should probably be around 29-30K. I can't imagine it competing well in the $35K arena.

    I agree. At 35k Accord would lose buyers or pass on this vehicle , I'm sure Honda is well aware of where there ideal price range is on this vehicle . I'd say for under 30k this would be the ideal price range to nail down buyers looking for something with a little more enjoyment


    If the V-6 model is being replaced ( which I haven't heard any talks of yet ) then Honda probably will raise pricing higher on the 2.0T models



    2016 BMW X-5 35i, 2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2012 MB ML350

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,994
    The 2.0t replaces the V6 models basically.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 63,341
    Isn't the current Accord Touring approaching $35K now? I can't see prices going down with the new model.

    Of course, MSRP and average transaction price are two different things.

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  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,182
    Really? I think I paid $26k for my '13 EX-L. That was the 4 cyl, which the vast majority of buyers choose.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 4,895
    edited September 20
    2017 Accord Touring Invoice's at $32,809. Most buyers across country and in the Accord forums are getting between 2k and 3k below invoice right now.

    2016 BMW X-5 35i, 2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2012 MB ML350

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 63,341
    brian125 said:

    2017 Accord Touring Invoice's at $32,809. Most buyers across country and in the Accord forums are getting between 2k and 3k below invoice right now.

    And, what is the MSRP?

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  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 4,895
    edited September 20
    suydam said:

    Really? I think I paid $26k for my '13 EX-L. That was the 4 cyl, which the vast majority of buyers choose.

    My 2013 EXL V-6 stickered at $30,070. Invoice price at that time was $27,502

    2016 BMW X-5 35i, 2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2012 MB ML350

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 4,895
    The Accord V-6 probably sells about 12% of the models line up . Haven't seen Accord Touring sales numbers this year . Accord LX to the EXL model are the big sellers

    2016 BMW X-5 35i, 2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2012 MB ML350

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,994
    Top model touring hybrid must push 35k. EXL V6 with navi and sensing I think is at least 33k. Heck, a touring CRV is over 34k

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,930
    edited September 20
    Current Accord msrps for the 2017 model before destination are:
    LX: 22,455
    Sport: 24,515
    EX: 25,830
    EXL: 28,920
    EXL V-6: 30,995
    Touring: 34,930

    The current LX price-leader comes with a manual transmission, and doesn't have HondaSensing. When you add the CVT and Honda Sensing, an LX has an msrp of $24,255. All 2018 Accords are going to have HondaSensing standard, which used to be a $1000 option on most models. My guesses for the msrps before destination for the 2018 Accord are...

    2018 Accord LX CVT Sensing: c. $25k.
    2018 Sport 1.5 manual: c.27k
    2018 Sport 2.0 manual: c. 28.5k
    2018 Sport 2.0 10speed auto: c. 29.5k
    EX 1.5 CVT: c. 28.5K
    EXL 1.5: c. 31.5k
    EXL 2.0: c. 33.5k
    Touring 1.5: 33.5k
    Touring 2.0: 35.5 k

    Just guesses, of course. We'll probably find out in the next week or so.

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 6,689
    Current Touring V-6 lists at $34930 before options. You can run up to $40K if you add optional wheels and some other toys.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,994
    I think you are low on 2.0 sport, since rumor was that it would come loaded so might price like an EXL. I hope you are right on the 1.5 EX.

    Really need at least equipment levels released so I can figure out which ones fit my needs. Though pricing will certainly come in handy.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,930
    stickguy said:

    I think you are low on 2.0 sport, since rumor was that it would come loaded so might price like an EXL. I hope you are right on the 1.5 EX.

    Really need at least equipment levels released so I can figure out which ones fit my needs. Though pricing will certainly come in handy.

    Equipment levels will probably be similar to what we've got now. I don't think any Sport is going to come loaded. But it should be a lot of car for the money. We'll soon see.
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