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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,710
    edited October 11
    Just read the MT link above. Definitely liked what they said about the EX. Hope to drive one next week.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    Every person, reviewer, editor, blogger and test driver has their own biases. It's unavoidable. You should always take any report or review with a grain of salt. C&D has always been biased to sporty vehicles. MT is biased to whoever spends the most in advertising.

    I also don't think these reviews have much influence over what people actually buy which is one reason Ford stopped catering to their whims a few years ago (and ruffled a bunch of feathers in the process TTAC ).
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    If reviews made a difference then Camry would not have been #1 the last decade.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,862
    Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,260
    berri said:

    Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.

    They also both have good resale value. No doubt for their reputation to reach extremely high miles without dipping into your wallet.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,710
    Basically they give the large majority of the buying public the exact attributes they want, and have for decades. And that brand value goes a long way.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 61,476
    Speaking of the Camry, I spotted a Gen I Camry hatchback a week or two ago. Looked to be in remarkably good condition for a car 30+ years old. The driver probably has owned it since new.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    edited October 11
    The one 2018 Camry I might still be interested in, if it was available at the right price, is the hybrid model. Gets a good review from Alex on Autos....But the lack of AndroidAuto is probably a no-go for our family.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    edited October 12
    This might be annoying to some. It does seem over the top. I mean, maybe the best sedan for under $35,000, but otherwise no....So, it does perhaps back up the bias idea. This does fit my theory—that Honda made the 2.0 with the six speed manual in part for drivers, but in part for Car and Driver, and specifically to try to try to keep the Accord's place on C&Ds 10 Best list. Looks like it worked.


  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,260
    berri said:

    Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.

    They also both have good resale value. No doubt for their reputation to reach extremely high miles without dipping into your wallet.
    benjaminh said:

    This might be annoying to some. It does seem over the top. I mean, maybe the best sedan for under $35,000, but otherwise no....So, it does perhaps back up the bias idea.


    Well, the term best can often mean best value, or best pound for pound, dollar for dollar.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    Well, it does says "America's Best Sedan," implying that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. have better sedans, but they aren't made in America.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,924
    America's best sedan is a Cadillac. It just costs more money.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • berriberri Posts: 7,862
    As Andres says, best in what? If it doesn't get big dealer packs and mark-ups, considering resale and total cost of ownership, maybe the Accord will be a best value, but Camry buyers will argue the point. As for Cadillac, I'd like to see a head on between it's top sedan (not sure what nomenclature that wears these days) and a new Continental. Maybe throw in a well equipped Buick Lacrosse just for a value comparison.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    "Kobe Steel admits it may have faked data on more products

    ....Kobe Steel customers from Ford Motor Co. to Toyota Motor Corp. to Subaru Corp. are investigating whether they used the suspect materials and whether safety has been compromised.

    "If you look at previous instances with "companies initially saying it is a single, one-off, it has always expanded to more and more parts of the business," said Alexander Robert Medd, managing director at Bucephalus Research Partnership. "One usually finds out that it is reasonably systematic."

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20171011/OEM10/171019856/kobe-steel-admits-it-may-have-faked-data-on-more-products

    Honda apparently also used Kobe steel.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,924
    I didn't see any qualifiers in the headline, so I'm standing by my choice. :)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    An entire in-depth New York Times article, with multiple videos, analyzing how Toyota is marketing the all-new Camry....

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/12/business/media/toyota-camry-ads-different-ethnicities.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times
    By Sapna Maheshwari
    Published: Oct. 12, 2017
    Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 10,389
    benjaminh said:

    An entire in-depth New York Times article, with multiple videos, analyzing how Toyota is marketing the all-new Camry....

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/12/business/media/toyota-camry-ads-different-ethnicities.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times
    By Sapna Maheshwari
    Published: Oct. 12, 2017
    Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.

    AKA: Vanilla in four different flavors...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,030
    No different than what Ford does with F150. When it's your flagship vehicle you pull out all the stops.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    edited October 12
    From a Canadian perspective, a test drive of the slightly different Canadian 2018 Accord, with a few comparison points with the 2018 Camry. The reviewer spoke with some of the engineers, who said that the Audi A4 was one of their benchmarks.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Just went through the last 4 weeks of posts on this, the 2018 Accory board. ;) I have to wonder how Ford and Nissan are selling so many Fusions and Altimas, given how old their designs are. One reason may be looks. If I were in the market for a new mid-sized sedan, I wouldn't be able to get past the styling of the Accord and Camry to even test-drive them. Their front clips are in particular really ugly IMO. There's several very good and good-looking options in the mid-sized class, such as Mazda6, Sonata, and Malibu, that I'd check out first. But with a roomy, compact-sized 50-mpg Niro starting at $23k, that's really what I'd check out before any mid-sized sedan.

    As for the Altima, I think I may know why Nissan still sells quite a few of them. First, as rental of course. Then there's people who like Nissans, think the Altima is good-looking, and want a practical, roomy sedan with excellent fuel economy. And they can probably get one at a great price.

    I drove a 2016 Altima base model rental last week around Boston and Cape Cod. Car had 37k on it; I put nearly 700 miles on it. There were two round trips between Boston and Cape Cod, both trips with some heavy traffic, and a week of motoring around Cape Cod. The car averaged 40.0 mpg. I thought that was impressive, because I did a lot of in-town driving in Cape Cod plus the heavy traffic in Boston. The reason was the CVT, which kept revs between 1200-1600 most of the time. It helped that the highway speed limits were usually 55-60, and much of the driving was on flat terrain. Other than fuel economy, the car was competent but unexceptional--but then it was a base model. Seats were comfortable enough, and the interior still looked brand new after 37k miles. Ride was OK, but a little jittery over bumps. It wouldn't be my first choice as a sedan, but for the right price it would make a solid family car. Needs a redesign though.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,862
    Camry could part with some grille orthodontia to fix Accord's missing teeth B)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 57,839
    edited October 15
    Oh, Accord dentures are very expensive. You could try implants from a Lexus. They have lots of extra teeth :p

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  • Marcothecarguy1986Marcothecarguy1986 new yorkPosts: 1,654
    @Michaell nice on seeing that old camory!
  • Marcothecarguy1986Marcothecarguy1986 new yorkPosts: 1,654
    @akirby so trew every one has there one view when it comes to any car or when they post sum thing on the net yes have to be taken with an big grane of salt! and yes Toyota is the best out there when it comes to very little problems every now and than! just my two sence!
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 1,998
    I am looking forward for the '18 Accord to become available tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how they are priced and if there are any changes from the preliminary specs.

    2010 Pilot EXL-RES, 2013 Accord EX

  • john4545john4545 Posts: 40
    edited October 18
    I cant wait to test drive one myself. Just not sold on the new 18 look yet . I like the 2017 accord sport looks better .
  • john4545john4545 Posts: 40
    What are the chances of the 2018 Accord Sports ride and handling being better than a Mazda6. The handling on the 6 was pretty tight and very sporty from what I remember.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,906
    john4545 said:

    What are the chances of the 2018 Accord Sports ride and handling being better than a Mazda6. The handling on the 6 was pretty tight and very sporty from what I remember.

    Mazdas are always a lot of fun to drive. I personally doubt a 2018 Accord Sport will be better than a Mazda6, but probably it will be about as good.

    And discounts on the 2018 Accord are already significant at some dealers. Look at this example—$2400 off msrp on a 2018 Accord EXL....

    http://www.donjacobshonda.com/vehicle-details/new-2018-honda-accord-ex-l-lexington-ky-id-20844125

    2018 Honda Accord EX-L
    Stock # 890113
    List Price $30,845
    Savings $2,458
    Internet Price $28,387
  • Marcothecarguy1986Marcothecarguy1986 new yorkPosts: 1,654
    @benjaminh wow just came out and discounts from the get go! wow have to look at one soon once the dealers around hear get sum in and have to still go and look at new camery to!
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