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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 8,602
    I wonder if MT still slants its articles according to advertising revenue.

    For them to call the cloth-seat Accord "more luxurious" than the Camry with leather seems a bit of a stretch. The entire article seems to be written from one point of view, that being to have the Accord come out on top.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,685
    Yes but there's something about the Camry interior that's always seemed a step down to me. 
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    ab348 said:

    I wonder if MT still slants its articles according to advertising revenue.

    For them to call the cloth-seat Accord "more luxurious" than the Camry with leather seems a bit of a stretch. The entire article seems to be written from one point of view, that being to have the Accord come out on top.

    Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 8,602
    benjaminh said:


    Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.

    All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    edited October 2017
    ab348 said:

    benjaminh said:


    Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.

    All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
    So it's a vast conspiracy....? ok....

    In the past when I've gotten a rental Camry, Fusion, Altima, Sonata, etc., there definitely are weak spots in those cars that the magazines point out. They aren't making this stuff up. Does the Accord have weak spots? Yes. As MT mentioned, the stopping distance was not good, and clearly inferior to the Camry.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,685
    ab348 said:

    benjaminh said:


    Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.

    All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
    Maybe the Accord is just better. It's always seemed so to me.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 29,517
    Just read car and driver review last night. They picked some nits. The bigger issue is, they seem to be all testing niche model. C&D tested the 2.0 sport manual. Nice to read, not relevant for 99% of population. Hopefully will find an EX road test at some point!

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 12,603
    stickguy said:

    Just read car and driver review last night. They picked some nits. The bigger issue is, they seem to be all testing niche model. C&D tested the 2.0 sport manual. Nice to read, not relevant for 99% of population. Hopefully will find an EX road test at some point!

    They know C&D and other mags will give the car a good review if they send it to them equipped Sport 2.0 6MT. Eventually they'll do a "short take" on the Touring and invite an EX to a "Mid Sized Sedan Comparo."

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,471
    A lot of people used to claim C&D was beholden to BMW; you don't hear that much these days as the only BMWs C&D has really liked lately are the 2 Series and the X1.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,460
    ab348 said:

    benjaminh said:


    Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.

    All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
    Perhaps if they change their name to "The New Car & Driver" and "The New Road & Track" and "The New Motor Trend" it'll be OK to trust them again?

    Certainly some of the biased employees that wrote positively about the Accord in the 80's have retired or moved onto other employment elsewhere. At least, that's the reason we've been given to trust the Car companies that may have burned us in the past?
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 29,517
    Not IMO bias, implying unfair. Just that the Accord is the type of car that appeals to them, along with the masses.

    They used to love the civic, then when that car got bad, they trashed it. But like the new model. They also fawn all over the Mazda 6, but since it doesn't sell, no one cares or cries bias.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 8,602
    I think it's actually worse now, as the current-day writers are the ones who had a clapped-out '90 Civic with a coffee-can muffler when they first got licensed, and think it was the best car ever.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,460
    edited October 2017
    ab348 said:

    I think it's actually worse now, as the current-day writers are the ones who had a clapped-out '90 Civic with a coffee-can muffler when they first got licensed, and think it was the best car ever.

    Those 90's Civics were pretty darn great! I wished I'd of had one, sans the coffee can exhaust tips.

    The closest I got was my wife's first car actually, the '92 Civic DX Hatchback with a 4-speed Auto, but it was already 10 years old with 165K miles, we only had it 2 years (and it did its job well).

    If I had convinced my father (and myself) to get a Civic in the 90's, then I wouldn't have had the Neon experience. I wonder which Dodge I might have been tempted by in that alternate reality and timeline? Maybe that Magnum Wagon with a Hemi.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 29,517
    edited October 2017
    Just read the MT link above. Definitely liked what they said about the EX. Hope to drive one next week.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    Every person, reviewer, editor, blogger and test driver has their own biases. It's unavoidable. You should always take any report or review with a grain of salt. C&D has always been biased to sporty vehicles. MT is biased to whoever spends the most in advertising.

    I also don't think these reviews have much influence over what people actually buy which is one reason Ford stopped catering to their whims a few years ago (and ruffled a bunch of feathers in the process TTAC ).
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    If reviews made a difference then Camry would not have been #1 the last decade.
  • berriberri Posts: 8,913
    Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,460
    berri said:

    Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.

    They also both have good resale value. No doubt for their reputation to reach extremely high miles without dipping into your wallet.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 29,517
    Basically they give the large majority of the buying public the exact attributes they want, and have for decades. And that brand value goes a long way.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 85,605
    Speaking of the Camry, I spotted a Gen I Camry hatchback a week or two ago. Looked to be in remarkably good condition for a car 30+ years old. The driver probably has owned it since new.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    edited October 2017
    The one 2018 Camry I might still be interested in, if it was available at the right price, is the hybrid model. Gets a good review from Alex on Autos....But the lack of AndroidAuto is probably a no-go for our family.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    edited October 2017
    This might be annoying to some. It does seem over the top. I mean, maybe the best sedan for under $35,000, but otherwise no....So, it does perhaps back up the bias idea. This does fit my theory—that Honda made the 2.0 with the six speed manual in part for drivers, but in part for Car and Driver, and specifically to try to try to keep the Accord's place on C&Ds 10 Best list. Looks like it worked.


    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,460
    berri said:

    Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.

    They also both have good resale value. No doubt for their reputation to reach extremely high miles without dipping into your wallet.
    benjaminh said:

    This might be annoying to some. It does seem over the top. I mean, maybe the best sedan for under $35,000, but otherwise no....So, it does perhaps back up the bias idea.


    Well, the term best can often mean best value, or best pound for pound, dollar for dollar.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    Well, it does says "America's Best Sedan," implying that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. have better sedans, but they aren't made in America.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,735
    America's best sedan is a Cadillac. It just costs more money.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • berriberri Posts: 8,913
    As Andres says, best in what? If it doesn't get big dealer packs and mark-ups, considering resale and total cost of ownership, maybe the Accord will be a best value, but Camry buyers will argue the point. As for Cadillac, I'd like to see a head on between it's top sedan (not sure what nomenclature that wears these days) and a new Continental. Maybe throw in a well equipped Buick Lacrosse just for a value comparison.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    "Kobe Steel admits it may have faked data on more products

    ....Kobe Steel customers from Ford Motor Co. to Toyota Motor Corp. to Subaru Corp. are investigating whether they used the suspect materials and whether safety has been compromised.

    "If you look at previous instances with "companies initially saying it is a single, one-off, it has always expanded to more and more parts of the business," said Alexander Robert Medd, managing director at Bucephalus Research Partnership. "One usually finds out that it is reasonably systematic."

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20171011/OEM10/171019856/kobe-steel-admits-it-may-have-faked-data-on-more-products

    Honda apparently also used Kobe steel.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,735
    I didn't see any qualifiers in the headline, so I'm standing by my choice. :)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 3,598
    An entire in-depth New York Times article, with multiple videos, analyzing how Toyota is marketing the all-new Camry....

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/12/business/media/toyota-camry-ads-different-ethnicities.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times
    By Sapna Maheshwari
    Published: Oct. 12, 2017
    Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,471
    benjaminh said:

    An entire in-depth New York Times article, with multiple videos, analyzing how Toyota is marketing the all-new Camry....

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/12/business/media/toyota-camry-ads-different-ethnicities.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times
    By Sapna Maheshwari
    Published: Oct. 12, 2017
    Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.

    AKA: Vanilla in four different flavors...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

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