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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,668
    john4545 said:

    If you raised the speed limit to 125, I bet you could prove that speed kills. :p

    I seem to recall a poll taken of experienced race drivers, and they asked them something like this: "At what speed, on a public road, would you stop daydreaming, having a smoke or driving with one hand and seriously start to focus on the road?"

    The averaged-out answer was, I believe, 93 mph.

    @Mr_Shiftright

    I agree with you.. My 77 Grand prix with the long hood was a tank. I bounced off cars, tree's ,poles, etc at low speeds back in the day. If I had crashed at 90 / 100 mph I probably would not be here today. Todays car is made out of tissue paper..... a high speed crash in todays times are more likely to result in death than years ago.

    IF you had died at 90 or 100 MPH it would have spared all the cars, trees, and poles you bounced off of back in the day. Therefore, collisions would have been reduced :smile:
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,668

    andres3 said:

    You do realize your own link finds the cause of the increase in crashes to be, and I quote:

    "Crashes attributable to unsafe lane changes increased 66 percent on 70-mph interstates and highways."

    Unsafe lane changes are the cause of your accidents in Ohio, not speed. You can make an unsafe lane change at any speed, whether it be 5 MPH, 55 MPH, or 155 MPH. I would say most unsafe lane changes are due to incompetence, obliviousness, distraction, non-situationally aware, and failure to look and use ones own eyeballs.

    I'll assume you're taking that position on ignoring the speeder component just to make an argument. The greater the frictional speed difference in the traffic, the more lane changes occur. Those lane changes are due to the speed difference.

    When the speed limits were 65, e.g., the the higher end of the Bell curve might average 70 mph. But when the speed limits went to 70, the higher end moved to 82 or so. The difference between those and the trucks and the drivers in the right two lanes of a 3-lane freeway just became greater from 82/63 vs 70/63.

    The left lane dominator egos among the speeders in the left lane feel the one lane should be kept open, almost unused, except for their high speed pleasure. They tailgate. They flash their headlights at anyone daring to use "their" reserved lane even if going 80. The "other," "little people" drivers, in the mind of the left lane dominator should stay out of their way using only the right two lanes--requiring more lane changes for those drivers to move around slower traffic such as trucks in the right two lanes.

    I watched this process of attitude of the left laners on my recent drive to Pigeon Forge. There are two kinds of left laners, the dominators and the users. The dominators never move out of their left lane, even if there is a middle lane open. Yet they are the ones to yell that some highways or some states have a slower traffic keep right rule suggested.

    The users are folks who want to get somewhere and speed, but they move safely over making those lane changes they expect all the "little people" to make in their use of the right two lanes out of a 3 lane road, and boogie on ahead. Often they outpace the dominator who's busy trying to play ego war with someone daring to go under 90 in the left lane.

    The best use of the highways built by tax money paid by most citizens is for all lanes to be used. Traffic flows best--not just for the 1%ers who feel the left lane swamp is theirs alone for use.

    The lane changes caused by the excessive speeds of a few are the causes of the increased accidents.


    Do you have any evidence of this bell curve of speeds going from 70 to 82 with the 5 MPH change in speed limits? It contradicts quite a bit of historical data on changed speed limits. I"d love to see the traffic and engineering survey that shows a average speed change of 12 MPH for a 5 MPH change in the speed limit.

    I'm not a big advocate of forcing trucks to have a lower limit.

    The left lane rules and passing lanes can be followed and the lane used to tax payer advantages. It need not go unused. There will always be slower and faster. Slower Traffic Keep Right; yield to faster traffic. It works, it's been proven, it's been tried, it's being used in 1st world Countries!

    Saying the left lane goes unused except for speeders is a fallacy. If there really are a constant stream of speeders forcing you out of the left lane, perhaps your speed limits are set below the 85th percentile, and now you've identified the problem?
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,668

    I think some math or statistical genius could probably figure out the optimal speed limit--the point at which advantages start to fall off.

    My prediction would be that if speeds got too high, we'd see more single-car accidents, the result of some drivers not being able to handle the dynamics of high-speed maneuvers.

    The thing is those types of drivers are already the ones causing wrecks at 55 - 80 MPH. They can't handle 55 to 80 either.

    The idea with higher limits is that you can get the law abiders to move with the pack and go with the "flow."
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 99,710
    berri said:

    I guess if a new president and congress come in down the road and go back to stricter mileage, or gas goes sky high they can revert to overseas operations to modify and reintroduce cars again. They really let their models go stale and seem to have also done a bit to themselves following Nissan over cost cutting on them.

    I was thinking about that, as well.

    With the relaxation of the CAFE standards, and the aging of the baby boomer generation, there isn't much reason to build and sell smaller cars (or, mid-size or large cars, for that matter).

    While I've owned SUV's, CUV's and crossovers in the past, I prefer a good old fashioned car for my daily driver (Elantra GT and Jetta are my last two). The wife likes the higher seating position and AWD capabilities of SUV's (going backward from the current vehicle - Outback, Mazda CX-9, Saturn VUE, Saturn VUE, Ford Explorer, Ford Expedition).

    I'm hoping this isn't the beginning of the end of the passenger car - I, and I suspect many, many others, will be sorely out of luck trying to find our next vehicle. Or, we buy used.

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    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,896
    The only Ford I've actually considered owning is a Mustang GT with the Performance Package- so the death of Ford's other cars is a non-issue for me.
    Well, I could see having a Fiesta ST for a work beater, but that's it...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 9,585
    So does this Ford announcement mean the death knell for the Lincoln MKZ and Continental as well?

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 99,710
    ab348 said:

    So does this Ford announcement mean the death knell for the Lincoln MKZ and Continental as well?

    That may have already been announced... yep, here it is.

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    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 9,585
    I thought there was a denial subsequent to that, but it makes sense that if the Ford-brand cars go, so would the Conti. That is an expensive development cost pill to swallow.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,842

    You often see people hitting the rail when exiting at too high a speed.

    I've tried to sucker a few idjits into keeping up with me on a tight on or off ramp. I once had an old Trans Am get waaay out of shape; it was a two lane ramp and raining- I passed him on the inside. He just had to impress his flaky girl friend and he floored it. The back end stepped out a lot- but not enough to tag the guardrail... :(
    Well at least now he knows what NASCAR drivers mean when they tell the pit crew--"it's pushin'"

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  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 99,710

    You often see people hitting the rail when exiting at too high a speed.

    I've tried to sucker a few idjits into keeping up with me on a tight on or off ramp. I once had an old Trans Am get waaay out of shape; it was a two lane ramp and raining- I passed him on the inside. He just had to impress his flaky girl friend and he floored it. The back end stepped out a lot- but not enough to tag the guardrail... :(
    Well at least now he knows what NASCAR drivers mean when they tell the pit crew--"it's pushin'"
    Push is understeer. Loose is oversteer.

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    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,842
    Right. If you hit the rail while traveling forward you've pushed. If you hit it backwards, you've probably oversteered. When you push, you can't hold the turn angle. A lot depends on how you respond to the movement you're feeling in the car.

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  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 99,710

    Right. If you hit the rail while traveling forward you've pushed. If you hit it backwards, you've probably oversteered. When you push, you can't hold the turn angle. A lot depends on how you respond to the movement you're feeling in the car.

    I'll have to admit, I've been watching a lot of NASCAR over the past couple of years, and for all the grief they get for "not being able to turn right", there is a lot of skill needed to keep those cars pointed in the right direction and going fast.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


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    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,668
    ab348 said:

    I thought there was a denial subsequent to that, but it makes sense that if the Ford-brand cars go, so would the Conti. That is an expensive development cost pill to swallow.

    I'd hate to be the guy that green-lighted the 1 billion spent on developing that car.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,842
    Michaell said:

    Right. If you hit the rail while traveling forward you've pushed. If you hit it backwards, you've probably oversteered. When you push, you can't hold the turn angle. A lot depends on how you respond to the movement you're feeling in the car.

    I'll have to admit, I've been watching a lot of NASCAR over the past couple of years, and for all the grief they get for "not being able to turn right", there is a lot of skill needed to keep those cars pointed in the right direction and going fast.
    As they like to say in NASCAR: "If you're in total control, you aren't driving fast enough"

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    My wife's 2013 Accord has Takata airbags. Honda has recalled all Accords up to 2012 with Takata airbags, and it's a good guess the 2013s are next—but when that might be is unknown. It could be a few months from now or maybe a year from now? Honda is already recalling some 2013 and even later Honda and Acura vehicles with Takata airbags, which I assume are essentially identical to what's in my wife's 2013 Accord. I'm hoping Honda is on top of this, but it does make me a little nervous. Living in Kentucky we have humid conditions, which I think is a factor in the deterioration of the explosives used for these airbags.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,414
    I had them replaced on my 2013 RDX. Was notified. About them a few years back I think.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • john4545john4545 Posts: 136
    My friends 2006 Honda pilot was in a front end crash at 45 mph. His front airbag never deployed . I always wondered how effective these airbags are after 10 plus years in vehicles
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,965
    benjaminh said:

    My wife's 2013 Accord has Takata airbags. Honda has recalled all Accords up to 2012 with Takata airbags, and it's a good guess the 2013s are next—but when that might be is unknown. It could be a few months from now or maybe a year from now? Honda is already recalling some 2013 and even later Honda and Acura vehicles with Takata airbags, which I assume are essentially identical to what's in my wife's 2013 Accord. I'm hoping Honda is on top of this, but it does make me a little nervous. Living in Kentucky we have humid conditions, which I think is a factor in the deterioration of the explosives used for these airbags.

    Are you sure they are Takatas? I don’t believe my 2013 Accord had them.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,414
    Another sedan advantage. Washed the Elantra today. Can get to the entire roof without any kind of stool.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited May 2018
    suydam said:

    benjaminh said:

    My wife's 2013 Accord has Takata airbags. Honda has recalled all Accords up to 2012 with Takata airbags, and it's a good guess the 2013s are next—but when that might be is unknown. It could be a few months from now or maybe a year from now? Honda is already recalling some 2013 and even later Honda and Acura vehicles with Takata airbags, which I assume are essentially identical to what's in my wife's 2013 Accord. I'm hoping Honda is on top of this, but it does make me a little nervous. Living in Kentucky we have humid conditions, which I think is a factor in the deterioration of the explosives used for these airbags.

    Are you sure they are Takatas? I don’t believe my 2013 Accord had them.
    Pretty sure. But not absolutely certain. I remember reading that Honda was so mad at Takata that they were going to stop buying their airbags for the Accord from them starting with the 2018 model year. Seems like that meant that before 2018 the airbags in the Accord were Takata. If true, this would also mean that my 2016 Accord has Takatas. But I think we're just going to have to trust that Honda knows what they are doing, and that they will replace our airbags if and when needed.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited May 2018
    Did some test driving of cars today, but the numbers on our trade didn't work out....

    Anyway, the all-new 2018 Camry is nice in the base trim. But it felt a bit cramped to me, both in front and esp. in the back for a midsize car. Otherwise, however, good materials and nice package.

    But the great value for the money on some Toyota lots right now are the leftover 2018 Avalons, which are about to make way for the all-new 2019 Avalon. The 2018 Avalon is the Buick/Cadillac of Toyotas, and it's very well done. It's better than any Buick, probably, with lots of room and luxury and features. They had a hybrid Avalon on the lot for almost $9000 off of msrp. Msrp was c.40k, and it was marked down to c.31.5k. Lovely interior. Much, much nicer and roomier than a Camry, and you can have a top-of-the-line Avalon for the same price as a mid-level Camry. Liked it a lot, actually. The exterior styling is maybe traditional, but moderately handsome imho.

    Next I test drove the all-new 2018 Accord Hybrid EXL. The styling of the Avalon may say "older person's car," while the new Accord is more contemporary and youthful, but kinda weird. But the interior of the new Accord, imho, knocks it out of the park. It's not only way better than a Camry, it's also better in most ways than even an Avalon. Best dashboard and steering wheel around in a midsize car at this point. Impressive features and quality. The Accord Hybrid has nice pick-up and performance. Luxury features, quality and room. Much more room in the backseat than a Camry. The headroom in the back of the Accord was a little less than the Avalon, but the legroom in the back of the Accord seemed equal to the Avalon.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    Some midsize sales figures for April....

    Camry 29,848

    Accord 21,751

    Fusion 12,871

    Altima 10,400

    Sonata 9,616

    Optima 8,276

    Passat 4,044

    Mazda6 2,909
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,668
    benjaminh said:

    Some midsize sales figures for April....

    Camry 29,848

    Accord 21,751

    Fusion 12,871

    Altima 10,400

    Sonata 9,616

    Optima 8,276

    Passat 4,044

    Mazda6 2,909

    Ford seems to be doing respectably. Sonata/Optima combined is easily #3. Altima must be 90% fleet sales.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    Compact/midsize sales for April....

    Civic 28,399

    Corolla 25,896

    Sentra 16,999

    Elantra 14,044

    Focus 13,001

    Forte 9,199

    Impreza 5,833

    Mazda3 4,725

    Jetta 4,313
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,414
    must be fleet sales in there too. Or a lot of really cheap people. Because the 2nd and 3rd sellers are really long in the tooth.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,929
    edited May 2018
    I went to a Mazda6 event at my local dealer last night, drawn by the promise of free food, test drives, and a coupon for $500 off any new Mazda. My son and I got there a bit early to ensure we could find a parking place. We didn't need to worry about that--plenty of parking spaces. There were more sales people there than customers--maybe only a half-dozen at most including my son and me. Probably the fact it's Fishing Opener weekend (which draws about 20% of the state's population to the lakes) had something to do with it. But I think it's more because there just isn't that much interest in the Mazda6, or mid-sized cars in general. Too bad, because it's a gorgeous car IMO, especially in Soul Red (they had one of those on the showfloor).

    I talked with a sales rep for awhile about the next-gen Mazda3, which he said should be in dealerships next February or March. He gave me some details on the Skyactiv-X compression-ignition engine, which will debut in the Mazda3. If it does get 20-30% better FE with more power as claimed, I'm going to have to take a long look at it when my Forte5 lease is up next March. In Soul Red of course.

    P.S. the food was great!
  • berriberri Posts: 9,592
    I wonder if Ford will start dumping sedans into the rental fleets now that they are dropping most of them?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    Fusion sedan isn’t going away for 3 years at least and they’ve already stopped Focus production. No reason to fleet dump.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited May 2018
    Ford has been selling a lot of Fusions as rental cars since it came out. I've had a Fusion more than once as a rental car. And now that the model is going to be dead by c. 2020, it's a good guess that more are going to rental fleets in the future. Retail sales of the Fusion have been falling like a rock.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 9,585
    benjaminh said:

    Ford has been selling a lot of Fusions as rental cars since it came out. I've had a Fusion more than once as a rental car. And now that the model is going to be dead by c. 2020, it's a good guess that more are going to rental fleets in the future. Retail sales of the Fusion have been falling like a rock.

    True enough. Arund here the Ford dealers keep just a few new Fusions in stock, but their used lots are full of 1 year-old ex-rental models. Most of them are SE trims, but almost all have the upgrade package that gets the Ecoboost 2.0T engine and the things that go with it. Occasionally you find a Titanium trim there which would be the one to get.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

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