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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • berriberri Posts: 9,593
    One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,668
    berri said:

    One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?

    Try opening up a CVT extended warranty business and you'll find out! :smile:
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,430
    berri said:

    One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?

    Good question. At 80k, the CVT is functioning fine. I spoke with a Service Tech and he said to do CVT fluid changes every 30-40k, which I have done. I have one of those lifetime drivetrain extended warranties that came with the car when I bought it. I don't want to test it and am hoping it is worth more than the paper it is printed on.

    2010 Pilot EXL-RES, 2013 Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL/Nav

  • berriberri Posts: 9,593
    I know some people don't like a CVT, but I haven't noticed a big deal on later ones I've had in rental cars. For me, the latest move to 8-9 speed transmissions is more annoying with all the shifting taking place. I suspect that aspect will get better down the road too like the CVT driving experience did over time.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,897
    The ZF 8HP45 in my 2 Series is an excellent transmission; 99% of the time it shifts the way I would on both the street and the track.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited November 2018
    I liked the CVT on my 2016 Accord fine, but I like the 8-speed DCT with the torque converter on my 2018 TLX better because of the faster acceleration, smooth shifts, and nice sound.

    It's still possible to lease a 2019 Acura TLX base for less than a 2018 Accord EXL (which is the equivalent model). Here's the national special on a new 2019 TLX lease:

    2019 TLX 8 Speed Dual-Clutch Featured Special Lease
    $299 per month for 36 months. $2,799 Total due at signing.

    In contrast, the price to lease a 2018 Accord EXL at my local dealer with the same amount due at signing is about $350 a month—and that's with a discount of $2500 off of the msrp.

    The Accord has more room in the back seat than the TLX, and it gets somewhat better mpg on regular gas, but for those considering a midsize car you might consider test driving the TLX. Imho the TLX is a nicer car with better handling (the 4-wheel steering that's standard on the TLX is really fun).
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,929
    I got to drive a 2018 Fusion Titanium AWD rental for a week over Thanksgiving, total of 950 miles mostly on the highway. I reserved a "mid-sized" car (ala Corolla, with potential upgrade to a Sonata, Optima, Camry, or Altima) but they gave me the Fusion--it was that or a Sentra. Here's my impressions:

    * Ride with the 18" wheels was kinda firm, but not too harsh, and pretty quiet.
    * Front seats (leather) were comfortable even driving 6 hours a day with only one break. Seat heaters were welcome. I hated the way the driver's seat moved back whenever I turned off the engine. I bet there's a way to deactivate that feature, but I didn't have time to dig into all the displays to figure it out.
    * Speaking of displays, I thought there were very complicated, with two LCD screens flanking the speedo plus the large center screen. I much prefer simpler displays and controls, such as rotary HVAC controls, but that's what I'm used to.
    * Fuel economy was 27.5 MPG over the course of the week, with mostly highway driving. I estimate I would have gotten close to 40 MPG on my Forte5, but that's a much lighter car with less powerful engine and FWD. One of the reasons I rented a car vs. driving my wife's CX-7 was for better fuel economy, as that would have done no better than ~30 MPG. However, the seat heaters made up for the poor fuel economy. Funny thing is, the guy at the Hertz counter told me it was a hybrid (didn't say anything about AWD). I'd rented a Fusion Hybrid before and it got very good FE, so I was glad about that--until I found it it wasn't a hybrid. (Hertz also forgot to put a snow brush in the car, in Minnesota in late November. I let them have it about that when I returned the car.)
    * I found out that when the headlights are in manual mode (which I had to use a lot as the automatic mode didn't turn the lights on many times when they should be on), they don't shut off by themselves when you shut off the engine and lock the car--they just beep at you. I thought it was odd for such an otherwise fancy car to not include an automatic shutoff. Even my cheapo 2001 Elantra had that.
    * I was reminded why it's a good idea to rent a car for awhile before buying it. It snowed one might while the car was parked outside. It was ice on the bottom and snow on top. It took me 45 minutes to clear off the Fusion, because it has all kinds of nooks and crannies for ice/snow to collect in. The worst was the trough where the wipers park--terrible design for people who live where it snows. Then there was the brake light mounted on top of the outside of the rear window (another terrible design) and the rear spoiler.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited December 2018
    Sales of midsize cars for Nov that I copied from another site. Not sure why only some have the percentage decrease and others don't. Also not sure why Tesla is missing, since the model 3 now has sales of maybe around 20k a month making it one of the best selling cars in the country....

    Camry 24,545 -29.9%
    Accord 23,367 +1.6%
    Fusion 16,652 +11.8%
    Altima 12,077 -36.7%
    Sonata 8,173
    Optima 6,669
    Legacy 2,903 -10.5%
    Passat 2,156 -31%
    Mazda 6 1984 +20%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,246
    Backy,
    An AWD Fusion is rated @28 mpg highway, so the average isn't bad considering the cold weather.
    There is no CX-7 rated anywhere near 30 MPG highway.
    As far as the hidden wipers go, that design has been around since the 70's.
    You could have just started the car, put on max defrost, let it warm up for a few minutes, and most of your ice problem would have been gone. ;)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,246
    November Malibu sales - 10,949
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,246
    Not much activity here.
    A comparison of 2019 Fusion and Malibu.
    https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/head-to-head-ford-fusion-vs-chevrolet-malibu

    Kind of reminds me, I never see any new Accords and only occasionally a new gen Camry.
    Hmm....
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • berriberri Posts: 9,593
    What is being compared - which one leaves the market first? I think Ford really messed up on the Fusion letting sit little changed for too long. It should have been like Camry and Accord. Malibu seemed more of a mixed bag to me.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,423
    I see an occasional Accord, but still unique enough to register. and just a rare Camry, though that is a little less noticeable to me.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited January 5
    Sales of midsize cars for Dec. and all of 2018 copied from tsx at vtec.net....

    Camry 29,093 -32.9%; 343,439 -11.6%
    Accord 38,627 +29.4%; 291,071 -10.1%
    Altima 17,064 -6.2%; 209,146 -18%
    Fusion 16,052 -8%; 173,600 -17.2%
    Malibu ???; 144,542 -22.2%
    Sonata 8,705; 105,118
    Optima 7,809; 101,603
    Legacy 3,374 -26.5%; 40,109 -19.5%
    Passat 3,116 +3.3%; 41,401 -32%
    6 2,357 +32.7%; 30,938 -7.4%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,423
    well, still a lot of volume on the big boys. And that does bring buyers into the "family", so good chance that even if they are moving over to CUVs, they will be predisposed to stay with the brand.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    Here's where many of the lost sales in sedans are going....

    Rogue 42,523 +5.9%; 412,110 +2.1%
    CR-V 42,079 +13.8%; 379,013 0%
    Rav4 38,669 +18.8%; 427,170 +4.5%
    Equinox ???; 332,618 +14.5%
    Cherokee 20,800 +7%; 224,908 -7%
    Escape 29m147 -23.3%; 272,228 -11.7%
    Forester 17,642 +1.2%; 171,613 -3.4%
    CX-5 13,741 -2.5%; 150,622 +18.1%
    Compass 12,745 +46%; 171,167 +106%
    SantaFe 11,347; 117,038
    Terrain ???; 114,314 +33.8%
    Tiguan 8,353 +45%; 89,476 +326%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,430
    Is it price that is moving the Rogue? It’s a good vehicle but not as good as a lot of the competition.

    2010 Pilot EXL-RES, 2013 Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL/Nav

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,423
    neither is the RAV4

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    Yeah I think the Rogue is cheaper than the competition. And a few years ago when Nissan had a tie-in for it with the Star Wars Rogue One movie sales exploded.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    Civic 26,384 -16%; 325,760 -13.9%
    Corolla 25,439 +27.4%; 303,732 -8%
    Sentra 17,567 +4.4%; 213,046 -18%
    Elantra 15,076; 200,415
    Cruze ???; 142,617 -22.8%
    Jetta 10,261 +42%; 90,734 -22%
    Forte 7,709; 101,890
    Impreza 5,880 -26.8%; 76,400 -11.2%
    3, 5277 -6.9%; 64,638 -13.8%
    Focus 3,661 -67.4%; 113,345 -28.4%
    Golf 281 -64%; 6,642 -51%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited January 5
    And the luxury midsize sedans....

    C-Class 6,799 +4.6%; 60,409 -22%
    ES 5,385 +6.7%; 48,484 -6%
    Q50 3,690 -33.9%; 34,763 -14.7%
    3series 3,184 -42.7%; 44,578 -25%
    TLX 2,831 -8.7%; 30,468 -12.8%
    IS 2,193 -21%; 22,927 -13.7%
    A4 1,881 -56%; 34,566 -8%
    MKZ 1,874 -18.3%; 19,852 -27.5%
    LaCrosse ???; 15,527 -23%
    Giulia 873 -14%; 11,519 +29%
    ATS ???; 10,859 -17.1%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    edited January 5
    VW has seemingly almost stopped selling the regular Golf in the US. My local dealer at the moment doesn't have a single one in stock, although they have 11 GTIs.

    And now the Jetta outsells the dying Focus by 3 to 1.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,246
    edited January 5
    The Focus has out of production since May, so I don't expect the numbers to improve much from here. ;)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • berriberri Posts: 9,593
    RAV4 had promo dollars on the hood in preparation for all new one that is now hitting dealer lots
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,430
    The Accord sales # had a huge jump. Wondering if it was a misprint. Maybe a year end push, heavy discounting to get rid of the remaining 18s? A dealer had a couple of 18 Touring models marked with a price of $28.9k, plus tax,tag,etc. I believe they were new, not demos.

    2010 Pilot EXL-RES, 2013 Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL/Nav

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,292
    Amazing how fast things can change. About four years ago Ford had two factories for making the Fusion, and combined they had a theoretical capacity of about half a million cars a year. And here in 2019 the Fusion and almost all sedans are seemingly forever riding into the sunset at Ford.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,844
    Some analysts think all this is part of a bigger and more ominous trend--that we are reaching, or have reached "peak car"--and that cars sales will never exceed present day numbers again.

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,423
    well, if population keeps growing, you will have a bigger pool of buyers. But we may never see another Mr. and Mrs. Breld in our lifetimes.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,844
    You'd think so, but this larger population might not want to own a car at all. I don't have the exact numbers, but a pretty good chunk of 18 to 25 year olds don't even have driver's licenses.

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,423
    well, my sample size of my kids, goes against that theory! My daughter (23 YO) is all excited that our annual trip to the car show is coming up. My son, well, he has CCBA issues.

    I do have one niece that never learned to drive (she is about 30 now), but she also has lived in Boston since college (in the city part, various places) so fits the bill of not being able to have a car anyway. That, and she did try to learn a couple of times, and IIRC it just was not something that worked for her.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

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