Acura TL 2009

billyperks2

Subjective is the operative word here.The good thing is, we all buy Acuras.

bodble2

Yeah, I suppose....or else ugly people would never get dates! :P

"...we all buy Acuras." I may not anymore if they keep producing bloat-mobiles!

bug4

Wow -- I finally had a good look at the 09TL today and I'm disappointed. I purchased an 08 Accord last year (because I didn't want an 08TL that would look old in one year) and really thought I would likely ditch it for the 09 TL. I think not.

Looks are subjective and so suffice it to say that I really dislike the looks. Well - I have to say more than that. . . . As with my Accord, I dont' mind the rear end, but can't stand the front end. Overall, I think the car just looks . . . . well. . . . too futuristic! I can't stand that type of grill on a sedan and the crease down the center of the back trunk just looks awful to me. The entire car appears to be trying to look like an oval - neither aggressive nor curvey. Its creases and curves are in the wrong places ---- It's like a car with panty-lines. The design is as confusing to me as a certain politician's selection of a running mate. I just don't get it. I can't say that I hate the 09TL looks and it likely is a design that will grow on me. But, neither do I love it. Unless it drives like a dream, I seriously doubt I'll slap down the extra cash for the premium Honda brand.

The interior looks very similar to my 08 Accord, except its busyness is packed into an even smaller cabin. That's a bad thing!!! Lets just hope all that curvey metallic trim is, in fact, metal, not the plastic crap that adorns my Accord. Also, did you see that that S-type weighs in at just a tick off of 4000lbs. Yikes!!! With that much weight over the wheels, I doubt you'll need the 4-wheel-drive to keep from laying rubber!

Perhaps the whole automotive world is coming to an end I also just looked up all the stats on the new, 09 Maxima. Although I like the exterior design of the Maxima, it seems like one of the worse deals rolling down the road. At least it has less interior volume than its "small" sibling, the Altima, but retains a bloated body with a relatively small engine. Sports car with four doors, my [non-permissible content removed]!

laurasdada

My father was just the opposite. He had an '03 TL. As soon as the '04 came out, boom, he traded up to the '04! I waited a year...

The prior (to '04) gen TL I describe as generically handsome. Clean, good looking design that just doesn't stand out in a crowd. The '04, to me, was the best Honda/Acura design since the original Legend Coupe.

My '05 is still a beauty, to me, moreso than any of the other $30-$35k sedans. I do like what Infiniti did with the evolution of the G. Still, not as handsome as my TL. I kinda like the new C Class, too, but it breaks no new ground. The ES? IMHO, the only time Lexus and style went together was with the original SC400. BMW, well the 3 looks like a BMW. Just keep de-Bangling and all will be well.

To each...

bug4

I respectfully disagree with your post. I firmly disagree that TL's must be inferior, or not "tier-1" vehicles because they are based on an Accord platform. I certainly haven't driven every premium brand. But, having driven a C-Class and 3-Series, I would never assume that a Honda product can't be as good, PARTICULARLY if you allow "value" to play any part in the equation. My personal philosophy is that, generally speaking, premium brands are worth the money only in their premium models, where they have been allowed to throw in their best engineering and technology. Lower level luxury brands, in my experience, often are not much better than the meticulously, cost-benefit designed consumer-level brands. And, they are generally much more expensive to own and maintain. Since I couldn't afford the Maybach, I just went for the Accord. :shades:

mrtrace1

Is the Accord a bad car? No, in fact its an excellent vehicle for the everyday driver. Does it measure up to the snuff of a 3 series and a C-class, heck no. Anyone who believes, in all respect, is really fooling themselves. I guarantee you anyone who owns a 3 series (my twin brother has one) will tell you flat out that an Accord is not a competior nor is its upscale brother (the TL). Do not get me wrong the TL is a fine car but we can not pretend that it is some luxo-sport mobile that beats and/or does not even compete with the Maxima, Passat, Saab or other niche premium vehicles. That's all I was saying; as someone was trying to hint that these mentioned cars are not even in the TL's class.

ocim

If your Maxima is so great, what are you doing on the Acura forum? Have you ever seen any rating of these cars. Where is your Maxima rated? Acura TL has been a top rated sedan on the Consumer Reports list and other car magazine lists for years now (yes, above all the cars you sited except for the 2007 G35 which is rated one point higher - although I suspect for not too long). And yes, the current TL is built on the same platform as the Accord. The considerably more expensive Lexus ES350 is nothing but a slightly smaller version of the Camry. There is nothing wrong with leveraging technology and engineering overhead costs. That is why the TL is more competitive over your badge loving Mercedes and BMW. If you don't understand that perhaps you need to go back to school and learn a few things about manufacturing. The FACT is that the Accord is a considerably better rated car than the Maxima. Add to that more power, better suspension dynamics, and host of luxury features and cars llike the Maxima are not even a consideration. Acura does not have to be Tier 1 to build a better car than the Maxima, plenty of manufacturers have done that. I suppose Jaguar is Tier 1 also, but they make pleny of junk. But since you are so FACT based, I'd appreciate if you can send me the link to the place where Acura acknowledges that they are not Tier 1 level. By the way, I don't own either a TL or a Maxima. Although, I have driven them both, including the Accord. I was actually looking at an RL when I heard about the new TL that now appears to be very similar in size.

bodble2

"...does not even compete with the Maxima, Passat, Saab or other niche premium vehicles."

There is something awfully wrong with that statement. First, I cannot accept that the new, or current, TL does not compete with the aforementioned vehicles. Secondly, when did they Maxima, Passat, and Saab become niche, premium vehicles? :confuse: Nissan, IMO, is really confused about the direction of the Maxima. Is it sport? Is it luxo-barge? Is it neither? They have recycled the "4-door sports car" slogan, but they stuck in a CVT tranny...as the only choice of transmission no less. They did away with a hand-brake, and replaced it with an God-awful "push-in, push-out foot brake. Just which direction is the Max headed?

mrtrace1

"Do not get me wrong the TL is a fine car but we can not pretend that it is some luxo-sport mobile that beats and/or does not even compete with the Maxima, Passat, Saab or other niche premium vehicles."

You didn't read my full statement. That sentence was a response to the poster above you. The TL competes toe to toe with these cars rather than the german and other japanese rwd cars. Does that mean that shoppers are not cross shopping the g35, c class or 3 series? No, but the aforementioned cars are definitely on the short list of many consumers considering the TL. Secondly, the Maxima has always been a niche car, as it has always been in between different classes, sometimes losing its path along the way. For instance there have been 2 models up to recently, the SE and SL. The SE was to compete with sportier cars while SL was to be a luxo barge and it drives like one too. For all of the reasons you have stated above is why I consider it to be a niche premium car (not quite a luxury vehicle -- I would consider Buick a premium car or cars similar).

mrtrace1

“In the next year there will be a huge shift toward tier 1, and the dealer body is excited about that shift,” said Valerie Voyles, CEO of the Ed Voyles Automotive Group in metro Atlanta.

“We’re not up there with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, but a big shift is coming,” Voyles said. “You’ll see more separation of the brands (Acura and Honda), with more Acura-only product.”

Those statements are directly from Acura folks. Perhaps you do not follow automotive magazines as close you would like us to believe. There have been other statements similar and since you are very educated (as you would like us to believe) I am sure you can find the others (we're the in the internet age, use a search engine to its advantage). Last time I checked one does not have to own an Acura to be on the board and comment about a product. If you had read my original post more carefully you would have learned that I am currently in the market for a 2009 model. This also does not mean I am leaving Nissan or bashing them as we will keep our '02 Maxima as our secondary vehicle (it still runs great). Thank you for advising me about the Toyota/Lexus relationship as if I had not known this already (I believe most people know the ES350 is a Camry). Also to simply your post on economics, its called cost-cutting. Cost-cutting does not necessarily make a product better as there will still be some limitations; hence, the TL will always have limitations as long as its based on the Accord platform. Though considering this car as a purchase I can accept that, can you? Since you keep stating these facts send me a link or a post where the Accord is a better car than the Maxima. I am waiting and plenty others I am sure. Did you notice you haven't seen many disputes to me saying the Maxima is in the same class as a TL? You have not, as most acknowledge these cars are in the same class.

paradigmslug

Sorry but not only is the redesign for the 2009 just plain goofy (especially the front grill) but the price is just out of line, even with the AWD option. "The base AWD model will start at $39,265. A top-of-the-line 2009 TL SH-AWD with technology package, 19-inch alloy wheels and high-performance summer tires starts at $43,995." from Inside Line.
I just think that this price point is too much for the entry-level luxury car buyer.

praz

FWD cars cannot compete with RWD cars, period. TL is a competitor to ES, Maxima, Genesis, Passat, Avalon and other FWD niche or entry level premium/luxury cars. Sorry to say that TL pretends to be a competitor to G, 3-series, C-class, CTS and other RWD cars. BTW, next gen ES will not share it's main components with Toyota, as per Lexus USA so expect to see RWD ES in near future.

rv65

Your pricing is only valid on the tech package. It will start at $34,955 without the tech package. Then again a loaded 3 series is over 45K so your argument is somewhat invalid.

rv65

TL = 30%
TL Tech = 50%
TL SH-AWD = 5%
TL SH-AWD Tech = 13%
TL SH-AWD Tech w/ HPT = 3%

Half the production will be the base with Tech package. Only a small number of base SH-AWD's will be produced. I expect most dealers to mainly order SH-AWD's with tech. The HPT model will probably have limited availability. Hope this helps.

mrtrace1

Praz, you hit it on the nose. The TL does not compete with those RWD cars. Our other poster believes that the TL is in the 3 series/c class/g 35 territory, when in fact it is not. Does that mean some folks aren't cross shopping them? No, but I am sure a true enthusiast would not even consider a FWD car, and that includes the TL. Until the TL loses its Accord heritage (FWD) it will simply have the limitations that all FWD cars have, no matter how they well they refine it. For myself, I'm not stuck on the whole FWD/RWD format issue as I am after the luxury moreso than the sporty ride. Notice that the base TL has less than 300 hp? I think this is because it's front wheel drive and putting more power to the front wheels would have been unsensible. Notice that the AWD model that has the 300+ ponies as I believe Acura believed only the AWD model could handle it and handle it well.

mrtrace1

Ocim in further reply to your post I will break this post down apples to apples. Since you're a very educated person (you said I need to go back to school) I am sure you will follow along with this very simple post.

Since the official 2009 TL is not on sale today I would be buying a 2008 TL so we will take a look at the 2008 Maxima (more on this later in the post). I mention this car and not the other premium/entry-level luxury vehicles because you have not said anything negative about them. Since I've driven the 2007 Maxima (basically the same as a 2008 Maxima) many many times I can fairly comment on why the Maxima is on par with and perhaps even better than the Accord you say is does not measure up to. When was the last time you hopped in any Accord and was greeted to a Bluetooth package, back-up sensors, birds-eye navigation (Nissan actually wins hands-down on this component - not on the navi as a whole), a smart key system, power tilt and telescopic steering wheel, power fold-away mirrors and other luxury features. My question to you is when was the last time you drove an Accord of Maxima back to back since you have stated you've driven both? Have you driven in a recent Maxima since Nissan decided to take it upscale and have the Altima compete toe to toe with the Accord? In any case, go get me an Accord with all of those features and bring it back to me. Actually go get me a 2008 TL and bring it back to with all of those features. We're not even talking 2009 models yet. As much as I love the new TL it still does not offer some of the features the 2009 Maxima does, but I can live with that as I love the new TL's styling over the Maxima.

darkguy

are you on drugs mtrace? maxima has more features than a TL??? base maxima has cloth upholstry. maxima has NO surround sound system upgrade, bluetooth only available in options packages GET REAL

mrtrace1

No drug usage here at all. Nissan actually doesn't sell that many cloth equipped base model Maximas and never has. A fully equipped Maxima which is in the price range of a TL has as many bells and whistles, if not more. Not kidding, just simply stating facts, which are actually undisputable. In any case, if you had read the various posts (and not just my last one) you would see that we are disputing that the Maxima is not in the Accord's territory at all, but moreso the TL's territory, which ocim seems to think the Accord is a better vehicle than the Maxima. If anyone is on drugs, and I highly suspect a very good substance at that, it's mr. ocim.

praz

Buyers who look at $$$:
Niche cars w/premium pricing: Maxima, Passat V6, Genesis, C300, Avalon
Premium cars w/premium pricing: TL, ES350, G35, CTS, C-class, 3-series, A4

Niche cars: Pricing start at higher $20,000 well into higher $30,000
Premium cars: Pricing start at lower $30,000 well into mid-$40,000

Premium car buyers will not cross shop with luxury cars as the pricing is almost $10,000 difference in base price. They might however cross shop with niche cars but only to certain extent(not a lot) and the same hold goods for niche car buyers where certain percentage buyers might cross shop with premium cars. However, a niche or premium car buyer will not cross shop with family sedans but if one does or think that they do than that person might be on substance.

Buyers who cross shop look at perfomance and badge:
FWD cars: ES350, TL, Maxima, Passat, Avalon
RWD cars: G35, 3-series, C-class, CTS, Genesis

Accord or any other family sedan are not even a consideration. It is good car but does not fall into the same league. I don't own a TL or Acura and I am not planning to buy one but since I own a FWD ES350, I was wondering how my ES350 matches to the new TL. The new TL seems to be on par with other FWD cars including the new CC which I spotted last week. This thread has turned into Accord/Maxima/TL......

mrtrace1

Marvelous post sir. You said all I wanted to say in 1 post (I believe I said half of that in about 10, lol). In any case, I had no idea the ES350 is going rwd the next time around. Looks like Infiniti was the first to take the lead and offer an exclusively rwd format (the awd is still based off a rwd platform) and now Acura and Lexus are following. Realistically, going in the future (in say 3 or 4 years) do you guys think the Japanese are going to still be able to offer $35k front wheel drive cars (these $35k cars were only $30k a few years ago and are getting more expensive year by year) and stay competive while Detroit is going back to rwd based cars and/or while charging the same price as the Europeans/Infiniti (perhaps Infiniti knew this years ago)? Giving credit to Lexus, their cars are for the most part rwd based. What I find interesting though is that while Lexus is majority rwd based they have less of a sporting reputation than the fwd based Acura vehicles. While I love the TL I have to reasonably ask myself whether the fwd car is a better buy than the awd car, guess I'd have to drive both back to back to find out.

alko1

If Acura could get off that blasted premium only gas I would buy one.

Just to ease everyone's anxiety about premium... Now that gas is $4/gal, what's another 20 cents. It's actually kind of a bargain now from a percentage-increase point of view. When it was $2/gal premium was 10% more. Now it's only 5% more. When they're charging an arm and a leg, what's another pinky for the good stuff???

alko1

I'm a little confused about the classifications everyone wants to put on cars and I think maybe a little history might help regarding Max vs TL. Back in '03 I was shopping Millenia S vs TL Type-S vs Maxima/I35, all Fwd near lux sport sedans. Did you notice I35?? That was Infinity's version of the Max, mechanically the same but with more sound insulation (200#s), nicer leather, and a few more amenities along with more conventional front and rear ends. The Max was slightly more light and nimble but noisy, whereas the I35 (w/sport suspension) was clearly THE direct competitor to the TL Type-S. It was a virtual dead heat in my book and I chose the Type-S. I was always a Maxi admirer but that experience showed that it was not quite in the same league with TL. Close, but not quite. Not to even mention the Infinity/Acura vs Nissan dealership experience. The 04-08 Maxi seemed to have gotten more downscale with awful materials and a cheap interior (IMO). It's still bigger and slightly higher on the food chain than Accord/Camry/Altima despite performance tests or whatever category or classification you think it should be in. To be a direct competitor to Acura etc, I suspect the new Maxima once again needs the Infinity treatment, but they quit the Fwd business with the introduction of the G35 back in 03. I've had my fun with my 03 Type-S but will shop Rwd or Awd for my next car since Fwd is so limited. And I'll stick with the premium brands as well. But it won't be a new Az-TL-tec.

hpmctorque

"The new TL seems to be on par with other FWD cars including the new CC which I spotted last week."

What's a "CC"?

604doc

The new VW Passat CC is a 4 seat, 4 door "coupe".

drmike29

I am a longtime Acura TL driver and will soon be looking at 2009's. I find praz' comments above very helpful. How come I never see the Audi A6 compared to the other cars you mentioned above? Is it a price level or simply driving performance and reliability? I have never driven one, but do find them pleasant to look at.
Mike

praz

A6, 5-series, RL, E-class, GS and M are in the same class, Luxury meaning more $$$$ and prestige. I don't know much about those cars so would not like to comment on reliability or performance.

jeffxp

I believe we all have a choice and the sum of the whole makes the vehicle not just RWD/FWD. I believe ACURA produces some of the finest interiors around; http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-acura-tl-1/967161/full/
better than Infinti, BMW, Lexus or MB. My decision also includes the sound system right up there on my list and Elliot Shiner's Panasonic sound systems is hard to beat and only Lexus is equal but in loudness versus the detail in the TL's high fidelity system. Yes, every car has it's pluses, it's your choice.

I drove the 09 RL, firm ride much faster than the 08 and the exterior is beautiful when you see it in person. The Bose system in that car is just okay. I need to drive the 09 TL this Wednesday when they arive at my dealer. Below is a link to a pic I found on the TL at leftlanenews.com. Plus, Autoblog has some amazing high resolution images:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-acura-tl-1/967162/full/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/cars/image_popup/imagegallery2.php?postid=8827&defim- - - age=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.leftlanenews.com%2Fimageresizeronfly%2FphpThumb.php%3Fs- - - rc%3D%2Fcontent%2Faugust2008%2F2009-acura-tl-sh-awd-1.jpg

:shades: happy motoring

drmike29

I guess, price wise, I should have said A4 instead of the A6.
Mike

bodble2

Yeah, those are nice photos! But the TL still looks oversized, and over-styled.

decisions2

Bought a 2008 TL in March of 2008 because I've always wanted a TL, and was in need of a car and couldn't wait for the 2009's. I never like to buy the first year of production anyhow, but from the new style and looks of this 09, I am glad I went with my 2008 instead. If I was in the market for a 2009 car, I am afraid to say but the 2009 TL would probably NOT be on my list of cars to shop around any longer due to the redesign.

I was shopping between a 2008 Honda Accord fully loaded (V-6,Nav,etc) which was already redesigned, and the 2008 TL which was the older style. Decided on the 2008 TL because the car seemed better all around. I definitely did not like the interior and buttons in the newly designed accord, and I can see that the new TL has taken the same approach. Way too many buttons, and looks like an old school wanna-be airplane cockpit or something with all of those buttons.

I think the new TSX was definitely a great upgrade and looks much better than the earlier ones....but with the TL I just don't see what angle they were taking.

Maybe that will change when I see it, but from so many pics online at just about every angle....I am not seeing where they did any great upgrades. Definitely more curvy, but not in the best of ways.

Not writing this to hate on the 2009 and tell you not to buy, but instead putting this info out there for someone who may be on the fence between a left over 2008 TL, an Accord, or the 2009 TL.

Either way, the Acura's Rock!

tom17

A6, 5-series, RL, E-class, GS and M are in the same class,

All of these cars are about $10K more (starting prices) than the TL. When loaded up they can be much more (550i = $70K easy). Price wise the comparison is A4, 3-series, C-class, ES and G.

tom17

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-acura-tl-1/967162/full/

Great pictures !!!

Why do they have to put the i-drive type control on the dash (like Infiniti).
It would be SO much more convenient on the center console between the seats like Audi & BMW. That way it can be used with the driver sitting back normally. With it on the dash, the driver has to lean forward to reach it (paying even less attention to the road). Definately not as safe or comfortable for the driver.

go_mdx1

I totally agree...the higher the gas price, the less of a difference it makes on regular vs. premium.

go_mdx1

To get the real-time weather on the NAVI screen, is that part of the base XM subscription, part of the XM-TRAFFIC subscription, or yet another subscription cost on top of these two??

Even better, perhaps the car has a built-in doppler radar so that no subscription is required. Ahh...maybe that feature will be in the 2020 TL!

praz

Garmin Nuvi 5000t(755t, 765t, 775t) series offer free real time traffic for life but one has to bear with ads.

ingvar

I do agree that "ACURA produces some of the finest interiors around", but car is much more than just fine interior. I am a driver, so I care about engine, manual trans and how well car stay on the road

billyperks2

Acura does well in that department too.

billyperks2

I dont understand, the car goes on sale this Wednesday and there is absolutely no details on pricing on the Acura website.

ingvar

For a big family car, - yes, but not for a sport car. I better pay $10K extra and get 335i.

billyperks2

And I will take that extra $10K and put towards a upgraded kitchen or bathroom or maybe a flagstone pato.

bodble2

Why not then get the Accord, and put the extra $$ towards an upgraded kitchen or bathroom, a flagstone patio, and a Hawaii vacation. Or, even better, get a Civic, and put the extra $$$$ ........

hpmctorque

"Why not then get the Accord, and put the extra $$ towards..."

That's my thinking too, because I don't see the '09 TL as compelling enough.

"Or, even better, get a Civic, and put the extra $$$$ ........"

Yeah, I could be happy with a Civic, or a Jetta, which, in my opinion, is a more satisfying drive than the Civic, but these cars really can't be compared to the TL. The Accord can substitute for the TL, but the Civic is clearly in another category.

bodble2

I know what you're saying, and I don't disagree, but I was just trying to illustrate the fact that if one were to start substituting automotive outlay for other priorities in life (home, medical, kids' tuition, vacation, etc), then it really becomes an endless spiral, for lack of a better term, because lets face it, a Toyota Corrolla is what 90% of us really need. Anything more extravagant would be frivolous and only goes to feed our hedonistic, or egotistical appetite.

rv65

Yes it can show doppler radar but it has to be on top of the traffic and radio subscription. I wonder if you can get XM NavWeather a la carte.

billyperks2

Been there done that.

bodble2

How do you mean? You've been to Hawaii, or you're now driving a Civic, but has a brand new kitchen?

billyperks2

I saw the car up close and personal a few hours ago-It looks GOOD. The pictures does it no justice, the lines on the car is awesome.My dealer got two in and already they are sold.I fooled around a little with the radio, weather and NAV, the system is WICKED.I did not want to test drive it because I am opting for the AWD.
Conclusion-this is now number one on my short list.

ajcohen

It is finally here. Go to Acura.com and go to the TL page. This thing is awesome and I plan on getting one!
Enjoy!
AJ

billyperks2

If I am satisfied with the test drive here is my order-

SH-AWD
White Diamond Pearl
Umber Leather
Wood Stimulated Interior Trim
Wood Wheel and Shift Knob
19 Wheel Package

WOOOOOOOW!!!!

billyperks2

Bodble2- they had the new TL on the showroom floor beside the previous generation TL and a RL- this new TL made them look as if they were cars of the eighties-no maybe cars of the nineties.