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"...we all buy Acuras." I may not anymore if they keep producing bloat-mobiles!
Looks are subjective and so suffice it to say that I really dislike the looks. Well - I have to say more than that. . . . As with my Accord, I dont' mind the rear end, but can't stand the front end. Overall, I think the car just looks . . . . well. . . . too futuristic! I can't stand that type of grill on a sedan and the crease down the center of the back trunk just looks awful to me. The entire car appears to be trying to look like an oval - neither aggressive nor curvey. Its creases and curves are in the wrong places ---- It's like a car with panty-lines. The design is as confusing to me as a certain politician's selection of a running mate. I just don't get it. I can't say that I hate the 09TL looks and it likely is a design that will grow on me. But, neither do I love it. Unless it drives like a dream, I seriously doubt I'll slap down the extra cash for the premium Honda brand.
The interior looks very similar to my 08 Accord, except its busyness is packed into an even smaller cabin. That's a bad thing!!! Lets just hope all that curvey metallic trim is, in fact, metal, not the plastic crap that adorns my Accord. Also, did you see that that S-type weighs in at just a tick off of 4000lbs. Yikes!!! With that much weight over the wheels, I doubt you'll need the 4-wheel-drive to keep from laying rubber!
Perhaps the whole automotive world is coming to an end
The prior (to '04) gen TL I describe as generically handsome. Clean, good looking design that just doesn't stand out in a crowd. The '04, to me, was the best Honda/Acura design since the original Legend Coupe.
My '05 is still a beauty, to me, moreso than any of the other $30-$35k sedans. I do like what Infiniti did with the evolution of the G. Still, not as handsome as my TL. I kinda like the new C Class, too, but it breaks no new ground. The ES? IMHO, the only time Lexus and style went together was with the original SC400. BMW, well the 3 looks like a BMW. Just keep de-Bangling and all will be well.
To each...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
There is something awfully wrong with that statement. First, I cannot accept that the new, or current, TL does not compete with the aforementioned vehicles. Secondly, when did they Maxima, Passat, and Saab become niche, premium vehicles? :confuse: Nissan, IMO, is really confused about the direction of the Maxima. Is it sport? Is it luxo-barge? Is it neither? They have recycled the "4-door sports car" slogan, but they stuck in a CVT tranny...as the only choice of transmission no less. They did away with a hand-brake, and replaced it with an God-awful "push-in, push-out foot brake. Just which direction is the Max headed?
You didn't read my full statement. That sentence was a response to the poster above you. The TL competes toe to toe with these cars rather than the german and other japanese rwd cars. Does that mean that shoppers are not cross shopping the g35, c class or 3 series? No, but the aforementioned cars are definitely on the short list of many consumers considering the TL. Secondly, the Maxima has always been a niche car, as it has always been in between different classes, sometimes losing its path along the way. For instance there have been 2 models up to recently, the SE and SL. The SE was to compete with sportier cars while SL was to be a luxo barge and it drives like one too. For all of the reasons you have stated above is why I consider it to be a niche premium car (not quite a luxury vehicle -- I would consider Buick a premium car or cars similar).
“We’re not up there with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, but a big shift is coming,” Voyles said. “You’ll see more separation of the brands (Acura and Honda), with more Acura-only product.”
Those statements are directly from Acura folks. Perhaps you do not follow automotive magazines as close you would like us to believe. There have been other statements similar and since you are very educated (as you would like us to believe) I am sure you can find the others (we're the in the internet age, use a search engine to its advantage). Last time I checked one does not have to own an Acura to be on the board and comment about a product. If you had read my original post more carefully you would have learned that I am currently in the market for a 2009 model. This also does not mean I am leaving Nissan or bashing them as we will keep our '02 Maxima as our secondary vehicle (it still runs great). Thank you for advising me about the Toyota/Lexus relationship as if I had not known this already (I believe most people know the ES350 is a Camry). Also to simply your post on economics, its called cost-cutting. Cost-cutting does not necessarily make a product better as there will still be some limitations; hence, the TL will always have limitations as long as its based on the Accord platform. Though considering this car as a purchase I can accept that, can you? Since you keep stating these facts send me a link or a post where the Accord is a better car than the Maxima. I am waiting and plenty others I am sure. Did you notice you haven't seen many disputes to me saying the Maxima is in the same class as a TL? You have not, as most acknowledge these cars are in the same class.
I just think that this price point is too much for the entry-level luxury car buyer.
TL Tech = 50%
TL SH-AWD = 5%
TL SH-AWD Tech = 13%
TL SH-AWD Tech w/ HPT = 3%
Half the production will be the base with Tech package. Only a small number of base SH-AWD's will be produced. I expect most dealers to mainly order SH-AWD's with tech. The HPT model will probably have limited availability. Hope this helps.
Since the official 2009 TL is not on sale today I would be buying a 2008 TL so we will take a look at the 2008 Maxima (more on this later in the post). I mention this car and not the other premium/entry-level luxury vehicles because you have not said anything negative about them. Since I've driven the 2007 Maxima (basically the same as a 2008 Maxima) many many times I can fairly comment on why the Maxima is on par with and perhaps even better than the Accord you say is does not measure up to. When was the last time you hopped in any Accord and was greeted to a Bluetooth package, back-up sensors, birds-eye navigation (Nissan actually wins hands-down on this component - not on the navi as a whole), a smart key system, power tilt and telescopic steering wheel, power fold-away mirrors and other luxury features. My question to you is when was the last time you drove an Accord of Maxima back to back since you have stated you've driven both? Have you driven in a recent Maxima since Nissan decided to take it upscale and have the Altima compete toe to toe with the Accord? In any case, go get me an Accord with all of those features and bring it back to me. Actually go get me a 2008 TL and bring it back to with all of those features. We're not even talking 2009 models yet. As much as I love the new TL it still does not offer some of the features the 2009 Maxima does, but I can live with that as I love the new TL's styling over the Maxima.
Niche cars w/premium pricing: Maxima, Passat V6, Genesis, C300, Avalon
Premium cars w/premium pricing: TL, ES350, G35, CTS, C-class, 3-series, A4
Niche cars: Pricing start at higher $20,000 well into higher $30,000
Premium cars: Pricing start at lower $30,000 well into mid-$40,000
Premium car buyers will not cross shop with luxury cars as the pricing is almost $10,000 difference in base price. They might however cross shop with niche cars but only to certain extent(not a lot) and the same hold goods for niche car buyers where certain percentage buyers might cross shop with premium cars. However, a niche or premium car buyer will not cross shop with family sedans but if one does or think that they do than that person might be on substance.
Buyers who cross shop look at perfomance and badge:
FWD cars: ES350, TL, Maxima, Passat, Avalon
RWD cars: G35, 3-series, C-class, CTS, Genesis
Accord or any other family sedan are not even a consideration. It is good car but does not fall into the same league. I don't own a TL or Acura and I am not planning to buy one but since I own a FWD ES350, I was wondering how my ES350 matches to the new TL. The new TL seems to be on par with other FWD cars including the new CC which I spotted last week. This thread has turned into Accord/Maxima/TL......
Just to ease everyone's anxiety about premium... Now that gas is $4/gal, what's another 20 cents. It's actually kind of a bargain now from a percentage-increase point of view. When it was $2/gal premium was 10% more. Now it's only 5% more. When they're charging an arm and a leg, what's another pinky for the good stuff???
What's a "CC"?
Mike
better than Infinti, BMW, Lexus or MB. My decision also includes the sound system right up there on my list and Elliot Shiner's Panasonic sound systems is hard to beat and only Lexus is equal but in loudness versus the detail in the TL's high fidelity system. Yes, every car has it's pluses, it's your choice.
I drove the 09 RL, firm ride much faster than the 08 and the exterior is beautiful when you see it in person. The Bose system in that car is just okay. I need to drive the 09 TL this Wednesday when they arive at my dealer. Below is a link to a pic I found on the TL at leftlanenews.com. Plus, Autoblog has some amazing high resolution images:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-acura-tl-1/967162/full/
http://www.leftlanenews.com/cars/image_popup/imagegallery2.php?postid=8827&defim- - - age=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.leftlanenews.com%2Fimageresizeronfly%2FphpThumb.php%3Fs- - - rc%3D%2Fcontent%2Faugust2008%2F2009-acura-tl-sh-awd-1.jpg
:shades: happy motoring
Mike
I was shopping between a 2008 Honda Accord fully loaded (V-6,Nav,etc) which was already redesigned, and the 2008 TL which was the older style. Decided on the 2008 TL because the car seemed better all around. I definitely did not like the interior and buttons in the newly designed accord, and I can see that the new TL has taken the same approach. Way too many buttons, and looks like an old school wanna-be airplane cockpit or something with all of those buttons.
I think the new TSX was definitely a great upgrade and looks much better than the earlier ones....but with the TL I just don't see what angle they were taking.
Maybe that will change when I see it, but from so many pics online at just about every angle....I am not seeing where they did any great upgrades. Definitely more curvy, but not in the best of ways.
Not writing this to hate on the 2009 and tell you not to buy, but instead putting this info out there for someone who may be on the fence between a left over 2008 TL, an Accord, or the 2009 TL.
Either way, the Acura's Rock!
All of these cars are about $10K more (starting prices) than the TL. When loaded up they can be much more (550i = $70K easy). Price wise the comparison is A4, 3-series, C-class, ES and G.
Great pictures !!!
Why do they have to put the i-drive type control on the dash (like Infiniti).
It would be SO much more convenient on the center console between the seats like Audi & BMW. That way it can be used with the driver sitting back normally. With it on the dash, the driver has to lean forward to reach it (paying even less attention to the road). Definately not as safe or comfortable for the driver.
Even better, perhaps the car has a built-in doppler radar so that no subscription is required. Ahh...maybe that feature will be in the 2020 TL!
That's my thinking too, because I don't see the '09 TL as compelling enough.
"Or, even better, get a Civic, and put the extra $$$$ ........"
Yeah, I could be happy with a Civic, or a Jetta, which, in my opinion, is a more satisfying drive than the Civic, but these cars really can't be compared to the TL. The Accord can substitute for the TL, but the Civic is clearly in another category.
Conclusion-this is now number one on my short list.
Enjoy!
AJ
SH-AWD
White Diamond Pearl
Umber Leather
Wood Stimulated Interior Trim
Wood Wheel and Shift Knob
19 Wheel Package
WOOOOOOOW!!!!