Motor oils for A3 and similar Audi/VW turbo 4s

geewilliegeewillie Member Posts: 7
edited April 2014 in Audi
Does anyone out there know of a synthetic motor oil brand BESIDES what Audi or VW wants to sell us at their dealers that matches what my '07 Audi A3 owner's manual specifies as the "Audi oil standard VW 502 00" (p.286)? I went to a chain auto repair store with quite a selection of brands and viscosities. NONE of those brands included meeting this VW 502 00 standard. Many did include standards for the most popular cars sold in the U.S., e.g. Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler. I wonder if the last three digits of the VW 502 00 is code that the oil be able to meete the high temperatures for engines with 200 or more horsepower? I bought Pennzoil's best synthetic 5W 30 since this new parts store didn't have the desired SAE 5W 40, which is Audi's first choice in viscosity AS LONG AS IT MET their "VW 502 00" standard."

Are there any code talkers out there?
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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Here is a link to a post of mine from last year that will unshroud the mystery of the VW oil spec codes:

    shipo, "Volkswagen Passat Oil Changes & Issues" #8, 10 Mar 2006 9:48 pm

    For 502.00:
    - Castrol Syntec 5W-40
    - Pennzoil Platinum European Formulation 5W-40

    For the superior 503.01 (meets and exceeds 502.00)
    - Castrol Syntec 0W-30
    - Mobil 1 0W-40 (my personal preference)

    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • geewilliegeewillie Member Posts: 7
    Shipp and Oil Man's rap is certainly of value and I'd tend to go with the oil higher rated than the 502 00, EXCEPT with what I've read about if there's a need to contest oil sludge issues in a VW or Audi, then it's perhaps best to show one used what was recommended in case things go to a court of law so that I can say "well, I used the oil that was recommended and had it changed at the recommended service intervals, so why are you (Audi or VW) giving me trouble?" Comments welcome. The Passat info. is of interest since I'm selling my '98 Passat to a friend (only 70K mi.), and I warned her about oils to use (synthetic, etc.). She knew better anyway because she was driving a Bimmer 5-series and knew of the sludge issue. Anyway, I posed the 502 00 question to the dealer's service dept. (Barrier Motors, Bellevue, Wash., a Seattle 'burb). Haven't had a reply yet, but thanks for the warning about a dealer substituting what Audi recommends for a less-expensive, more profitable oil. I may just go back to having my service guy do the changes with oil I supply. Where are you buying your oil? I go to a chain retailer auto supply store (Schuck's in the N.W.) I "near never seen that Yuro-pee-in oil" where I shop.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    No worries about using the 503.01 oil in your car as BOTH of them are certified 502.00 as well. I have a copy of the VW/Audi Technical Bulletin dated 26-Jul-2005 regarding which oils are 502.00 certified, including (among many others) Mobil 1 0W-40.

    If you want me to E-Mail you the bulletin, just look up my E-Mail address and I'll fire it right off. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    Miramar Audi in San Diego, CA, uses 5W-30 Castrol Syntec because they say Audi recommends it for mild/warm/hot climates, like sunny parts of CA.

    They claim the 0W-40 and 5W-40 is for colder climates?
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "They claim the 0W-40 and 5W-40 is for colder climates?"

    They do huh? If a dealership told me that about my new Audi I'd quickly be finding a new dealership as I'd never trust them to lay a finger on my car.

    The fact is that 0W-40 will "out-winter" a 5W-30 AND "out-summer" that same 5W-30 regardless of the time of the year and the prevailing weather. Said another way, for your car that requires at least an oil that is certified to meet the VW 502.00 oil spec, there is no better oil for it than a 503.01 certified 0W-40 (a close second would be a 503.01 certified 0W-30).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • geewilliegeewillie Member Posts: 7
    I was mainly concerned with finding the proper VW/Audi certified 502.00 oil and didn't want to go to the dealers to buy it. I ended buying a quart, just as a spare for the car, from my mechanic I used for my out-of-warranty Passat -- for five bucks a quart, which I considered a deal. I can't recall the viscosity, but it met my needs that the manufacturer insists upon.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    It isn't all that difficult to find 502.00 oil. Virtually every K-Mart, Walmart, NAPA and Autozone that I've been in recently has at least one of the following on the shelf:

    Castrol Syntec 5W-40
    Castrol Syntec 0W-30
    Mobil 1 0W-40

    The first is only certified as a 502.00, the last two are certified as both 502.00 AND 503.01 (which means they are MUCH better oils).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    Care to enlighten us on how 503.01 is a much better oil? What makes it better? What characteristics and properties does it exhibit, what performance gains are achieved?
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Scroll up to message number 2 of this topic and follow the link I posted to the VW Oil topic. In there is the list of applications that the various oil specs were developed for. Said another way, the engines with the highest specific output per liter, the highest pressure turbochargers, and/or the most mechanically complex are the only ones that require 503.01. What using the more robust oil translates to for someone who is driving a car that requires 502.00 is an extra measure of measure of shear resistance, an extra measure of heat resistance and greater level of protection against sludge formation (not an insignificant issue for VW & Audi owners).

    Can I give you the specific benchmarks that VW requires for an oil to meet that lofty spec? Nope. I've looked and looked, and as of yet have been unable to find it. What I do know though is that oils based on Group III Hydrocracked Crude can be made robust enough to meet the 502.00 standard, however, not a single Group III oil has ever been stable enough to meet the 503.01 spec, that seems to be a realm where only fully synthetic Group IV oils need apply.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    briskoda.net (add usual http://.www header to make complete) has a forum that discusses a number of oils for high performance VW and Audi vehicles.
    The latest seems to be 503.01, which is specified for the Audi RS4, S3, and TTs' over 180 hp.
  • woffywoffy Member Posts: 6
    I had my 25,000 mile service last week at my Audi dealer. A couple of days later I checked my oil level. It was at the midpoint of the dipstick. There was no leakage and I had driven less than 50 miles. I called the dealer, described the problem and they said that they filled the reservoir to the midpoint on the dipstick due to expansion when the oil was hot. I'm hoping Shippo is reading this because I really respect his thoughts on oil related questions. Is this correct? I've always "read" this as 1/2 quart low over my 62 years.
  • kinctkinct Member Posts: 59
    That's a load of bull. Yes, it will expand when heated, but, um, 1/2 a quart. No. Tell them, nice try, but you'd like the other 1/2 quart, thank you very much.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeah, the expansion thing is a bunch of BS. That said, virtually every manufacturer that I've looked at recently recommend filling the oil pan so that the oil level shows about half of a quart low. Why? Beats the stuffin' out of me. I routinely fill all of our cars with about a half of an extra quart when changing the oil, and they always show exactly full on the dip stick.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • woffywoffy Member Posts: 6
    Thanks Shipo. One really odd thing about this, the dealer is saying Audi's instruction to him is to fill the crankcase to where the dipstick shows 1/2 quart low, while my owners manual tells me I should be thinking about adding oil when it is at the same level. There is a big disconnect here!

    I've also done some more investigating and talking to Audi and the dealer's service manager. I'm now at the opinion that my oil was not changed. I bought a bottle of the same oil my invoice said was put in and compared the look of it to what I got out of the crankcase on the dipstick and on my towel. The crankcase oil seems darker to my eye. Also, my car wasn't washed when I picked it up. The practice of this dealer is to always wash the cars before presenting to the customer. Plus my tires were not rotated as I asked for them to be. Really makes me suspicious.

    Also, how does one go about getting oil analyzed should the dealer not acknowledge any fault? I've searched the local places on GOOGLE and can't readily find a place which does this in the area.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    A couple of points:

    1) The color of oil has absolutely-positively zero correlation to its suitability for lubrication of the engine that its in. Said another way, it is entirely likely that oil can darken significantly after only a few dozen miles.

    2) Very few of us live near a company that performs Used Oil Analysis (UOA). Most folks, me included, send our oil out for analysis, and many of those folks use Blackstone Labs (they'll send you an oil sample mailing kit for free). http://www.blackstone-labs.com

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • woffywoffy Member Posts: 6
    Thanks again Shipo. I've ordered the sample kit from Blackstone Labs.
  • ahmedahmed Member Posts: 9
    My dealer just put 5W30 into my GTI, while the manual calls for 5W40. I thought I was paying the premium price because I could trust the dealer to do the right thing. Besides he charged me $3.50 for oil disposal whereas I can drop old oil at a service station for nothing. So this mysterious and pompous spec called 502 00 is apparently whatever the dealer chooses to dump in. Or am I paranoid?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Possibly paranoid.

    Oils that meet the 502.00 oil spec include 0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40. If the oil meets the spec (the #1 criteria for acceptable oil), then you do not have to worry about the specific weight.

    For more information, read the first couple of dozen posts in this thread: pat, "Volkswagen Passat Oil Changes & Issues" #1, 13 Mar 2006 11:52 am

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • ahmedahmed Member Posts: 9
    Thanks Shipo, that settles my mind.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    I called Mobil......M1 0W-30.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ummm, no, there isn't a single Mobil 1 0W-30 oil certified for use in VW/Audi engines. In spite of what someone from Mobil told you, if you use 0W-30 in your engine, you will run the risk of having VW or Audi refuse you engine warranty work.

    FWIW, the ONLY Mobil 1 oil certified for VW and Audi engines in North America is Mobil 1 0W-40.

    http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0- - 023.File.pdf

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • hozhoz Member Posts: 3
    Shipo,

    I use Mobil 0-40 in my 06 GTI. The more spirited the driving, the more it gobbles oil (driving the twisties, shifting at 4500 rpm). On long distance trips, it just sips it. Anything to worry about? And thanks for info on 503.01, I didn't know what to do when Amsoil 5-30 changed spec a few years back so I went to 5-40, but it got way too expensive and now all my local stores carry Mobil 0-40.
  • ahmedahmed Member Posts: 9
    Check your crankcase breather valve. The flow on mine was blocked and probably caused oil consumption. It's a cheap fix.
  • hozhoz Member Posts: 3
    Ahmed,

    Thanks!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    ahmed beat me to it; check the breather/PCV system. :)
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