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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?



  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I am sure the Edge is a nice vehicle, but how does it blow away the Stepford wife's choice (I assume you mean the RX)?

    Lincoln is an interesting those over 40

    Yes, I have driven the RX Lexus, wasn't impressed at all with it, other than being a tad bit quieter in the ride than the Veracruz, it was a whole lot noisier in the engine department, and not a nice noise at that. The interior of the Edge in the 2011 model is a lot better looking than what the others have to offer, and for a lot less money.

    As far as Lincoln goes, I think the MKT, which is the Flex based model, is really well appointed, and has a ton of power in it. Would I buy one over a Flex, nope, I can't see spending an extra $10K for the same ride, same as I would not buy an ES over a Camry. At least there is a big difference between a Flex and the MKT, unlike the ES to a Camry. The MKT is only based on the Flex platform, the body and interior are different. An MKZ which is the upscale Fusion, is also one I would not spend the extra on. Other than some different skin, and Homelink on the visor(Why the Fusion doesn't have it is beyond me), it is basically the same car. At the CAS there was not a single Town Car or Grand Marquis, next year will be the last year for both models, and the end of an era for the RWD body on frame cars. :cry:

    I have driven and ridden in a Mercedes S600, and frankly I could not see spending the money these cars cost. For what reason? To show you're a snob with money? Hey looky I have an expensive car and you don't, and that my friends is what the definition of Luxury is all about! Those who put Hyundai down are a good example of that, oh you drive a Hyundai, what cant afford a REAL car?
    When I had my Veracruz, and would pull up next to an RX350, I would look over and laugh because I know they paid more for it and got less. I will happily get another Hyundai if the need ever arose, the only reason I didn't replace the Veracruz with an AWD version was cost, I got an excellent deal on the Flex that I couldn't pass up, and after being at the auto show, and looking at all the other brands with cars of similar size, I know I made a good choice with it, no other car out there has the room and convenience of the Flex, Except the MKT, some were obviously more "luxurious" with fine leather and real wood, but you cant seat 6 adults in 2 buckets and a bench, but you can seat them all comfortably in the Flex.

    You know what really matters to me is having a home to raise my children in, to me that is more important than what brand of car I drive, I prefer my 6000 SqFt house, 5+ acres and 3 horses over some expensive branded car.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,639
    I don't like the RX either, both for its blandness and for its target market. I live in the center of the trophy wife universe for my region, and driving behind those things is torture.

    People drive a S600 for the feat of keeping one of the most complex cars in automotive history on the road. It's bought new just to have the most cylinders, and then kept around to prove that the owner can deal with such madness. Cars are not logical machines.

    6000 sq ft? Sounds about as practical as running an old S600 as a taxi ...what's the point of having such a large house? ;) ...different people have different priorities...that's what makes things interesting, variety. If everyone drove a practical logical car, this would be a boring world.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 KC MetroPosts: 6,874
    edited March 2010
    those "mirrors" are really cameras. He's right. I think.

    And no, I never said that I liked the "mirrors" at all. I asked if anyone knew anything about them. Since no one really knows for sure I'm gonna go with the notion that they're cameras.

    Just sort of putting out "feelers" here and hunting and gathering. I think I'm gonna see something great in the Azera size range soon, something that is now called the Hyundai i-flow concept. That's all there is to say about it, right? Yes, we'll have it here in one of Hyundai's biggest markets, the United States of America.

    Any dangling participles here that need re-hashing and haberdashing? :confuse:

    Yes, I do like the body style, not those funky mirrors. I knew something was up about them.

    Who's getting Joe Namath information that the car isn't coming to da States, anyway?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

    Well I test drove both cars, Genesis was 2009 model, and I liked the ride of the Genesis a whole lot better. In my mind the Avalon had the floaty ride and the Genesis felt as if I were riding on air. This is my opinion after having driven both vehicles, so when the time comes I will be purchasing/leasing the Genesis.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    Glad that you took the time to check both vehicles out. It makes a difference in people who see for themselves when they compare cars side by side. There are others that just assume that the Genesis is inferior to other luxury cars.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,366
    In my mind the Avalon had the floaty ride and the Genesis felt as if I were riding on air.

    That is why ride is sooooooo subjective. Riding on air is the absolute last statement I would make about the Genesis's ride. However, ride aside you will be making a good purchase. I am just about to hit 9000 miles and no problems to date. Car has been flawless in that regard.

    2015 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Perhaps Hyundai feels so confident in the quality of their vehicles from top to bottom that they feel that they don't have to create another brand or marque.

    Perhaps Hyundai doesn't feel inferior like Toyota and Honda obviously did when they spun off Lexus and Acura. I'm trying to think of something that would make me change my family name. It would take something pretty drastic. I think it would be easier to rehabilitate it rather than attempt to hide it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Inferior? I doubt it. Since no Asian automaker was known in the US for luxury cars at that time (with the possible exception of the Cressida), they took a reasonable approach in creating separate luxury brands/identities. But now it's well known that Asian automakers can produce luxury cars with the best of them. The J3's success in selling luxury vehicles helped pave the way for Hyundai to do it 20 years later. Except Hyundai decided to use their foray into the luxury market as a way to build the perception of their brand, vs. creating a new brand.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,366
    Perhaps Hyundai doesn't feel inferior like Toyota and Honda obviously did when they spun off Lexus and Acura. I'm trying to think of something that would make me change my family name.

    I think it was more than that. It was a way to gain market share. It added more dealerships and exposure. The LS was a way for Toyota to take sales away from BMW and Mercedes. They were not doing that with any other vehicles they were selling at the time.

    2015 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    When the basement and old converted garage is added into the mix, it comes out to 6000 SqFt, but in reality, the rooms are small. It is a long, narrow ranch home, but it has 7 bedrooms and 4 baths. Someone added an in-law apartment to it. I added 3 bedrooms downstairs, with room for one more and a large family room, then a nice workshop under the addition. Two bedrooms are 9 x 13 down stairs, and one is a big larger that we use as an office. The other bedrooms that came with the house are small too, a queen water bed fills them with barely enough room for a dresser. On paper it sounds huge, but in reality it is just a lot of wasted space. The garage though, HUGE, 4 car, very deep on the house side, I can fit my F350 Dually Crewcab Longbed in, with a shelf and air compressor behind it, and room to pass in front of it with the door closed. The garage is almost as long as the house, and that was one of the reasons we bought it, the other was the room and barn for our horses. Looking back though, I wish we had done an inspection and saved us thousands in repair costs, which are still on going, we had to replace all the plumbing, still have 2 baths left to replace, replace the furnace, add a second one for the room addition, rewire nearly the entire house, and shore up the main beam under the bathrooms where some fool notched it out for a pocket door. Some days I feel like a slight gas leak would make my day. BOOM, start over.

    I saw that car, at least I think it was that car, at the auto show, the one with the funky mirrors, and you could see the dash and see yourself in the dash through the cameras in the mirrors, so those are cameras.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Maybe we can change the name of the discussion to, "Is there room in acdii's ranch home for Hyundai?"
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    Sounds like the Genesis has more room than acdii's house!!!lol
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,639
    Your garage sounds much more interesting than the house fact, it kind of sounds like the old MB S600 of houses ;) ...and don't let the insurance man see those gas leak wishes!

    If those wings are cameras, that's some lame technology...other makers have the same type of camera stuff, but can make it discreet. I don't want those weird things sticking out of my car.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    Hyundai made adjustments to the 2010 ride so the rear suspension isn't an issue; on that same basis, the "ride" on the Avalon (soft, floaty) is better than on the Lexus GS.

    As for being brand conscious - the Japanese are just as much, if not more so (designer luxury bags are probably a bigger deal in Japan).

    Again, there is a distinction btwn luxury car and luxury brand; eveb tho Mercedes is a luxury brand, the A and B Classes, even tho they carry the Mercedes badge are NOT luxury vehicles.

    The $65K Toyota Land Cruiser is a luxury SUV, even if carries the mainstream Toyota badge; it certainly is more "luxury" than the majority of the Lexus lineup (particularly the ES, IS and HS), not to mention anything in the Acura lineup.

    The Corvette, despite being a Chevy, is a high end sports car (tho, not at the exotic level); sam goes for the Nissan GT-R, etc.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    Well, Hyundai does have plans on the drawing board for a luxury brand to be launched in 5-6 yrs time - to coincide w/ the launch of the next gen Genesis sedan and coupe, as well as a smaller entry level (sporty) sedan.

    But what you say about MB and BMW is very true.

    Over in Europe, aside from the E Class being one of the most common taxi cars, Mercedes models (particularly, everything but the S Class) can be had w/ pleather seats and rather anemic powerplants; hardly the stuff of "luxury" cars.

    And neither Mercedes and BMW are particularly known for the luxuriousness of their interiors - altho both have gotten better, esp. w/ the F segment sedans, both still have stinkers like the current C Class or the X3.

    But probably the best example of an auto brand undergoing change is VW; during the '70s, they were known primarily as makers of the cheap Beetle; now VW is seen as being the premium mainstream brand.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,366
    The $65K Toyota Land Cruiser is a luxury SUV, even if carries the mainstream Toyota badge; it certainly is more "luxury" than the majority of the Lexus lineup (particularly the ES, IS and HS), not to mention anything in the Acura lineup.

    Then how do you describe the Lexus LX which is based off the Land Cruiser? Obviously, Toyota felt the need to make a "luxury" full size SUV.

    2015 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,366
    Here is a spy photo of the upcoming Equus.... lets not hope this is a trend. What is up with that wing? Hopefully, just a way of disguising the car.


    2015 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • j2jj2j Posts: 147

    "Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus are the main luxury brands; this 1st tier and 2nd tier stuff is nothing but a bunch of BS; before you and others make the ridiculous statements about Acura that you have, why don't you all go and get one."


    Why would I get an Acura when I could have the better driving dynamics (much less better prestige) and RWD of a BMW?

    As for the whole tier-1 luxury stuff, aside from the consensus on numerous auto boards catering to luxury buyers that Acura is NOT a tier 1 luxury brand, auto publications also say the same thing.

    From MotorAuthority - -plans-nsx-could-be-revived

    "Overall image in the marketplace and status on the street have likewise proven difficult to develop. That's why Acura is making a hard push specifically to boost its image and achieve 'tier 1' luxury carmaker status."

    From Auto Spies - er-Acura-only-vehicles-26623/

    "We’re not at all impressed with the new Acura RL or the new TSX, but it seems like Acura is having dreams of a “huge shift” next year that will move the brand closer to tier 1 luxury brands such as BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus."

    From Leftlanenews - to-life-support.html

    "Tough economic conditions have forced several automakers to delay or completely abandon future plans, but Acura says its quest to become a Tier 1 luxury automaker is still on. Acura laid out its plan to become a Tier 1 automaker at a recent dealer meeting."

    From egmcartech - -become-a-big-league-luxury-player/

    How long will it take? Acura still aiming to become a big-league luxury player?

    It seems like dealer Dave Conant really believes in Acura and Honda’s U.S. executives when they say Acura will soon be a top-tier luxury brand playing in the major leagues with Lexus, Mercedes and BMW. So much so that Conant spent $20 million upgrading his Acura dealership in suburban Los Angeles betting that this time Honda will succeed.

    “We invested in this facility on the bet they really mean it,” Conant told Automotive News.

    Jeff Conrad, vice president of American Honda’s Acura division admits that dealer expectations are high. He says that Acura is working hard to improve its vehicles, marketing, and retail network but reaching those goals will take some time.

    “Every product we launch becomes more of a Tier 1 product.” Conrad says. “But you don’t just snap your fingers and do it overnight. It is a long-term effort.”


    Hmmm, it seems that even Acura executives DON'T think that Acura is yet a tier 1 luxury brand.

    How 'bout more quotes from Honda/Acura brass?

    From Edmunds - l

    Acura wants to be known as a "Tier 1" luxury brand, and as such, is in the process of redefining their product line and their image.

    “Our goal is to move Acura into a Tier 1 luxury brand,” says John Mendel, the executive vice president of automobile operations for American Honda. “We’re pretty clear about it. BMW is well established, and Acura is not in terms of a brand image..."


    For someone who purportedly is/was an Acura owner and asserts to be knowledgable about the industry, much less Acura - you seem to know amazingly little about how Acura's management sees itself and its future.

    Apparently, Acura is ABANDONING its effort to make it to tier 1 status and is focusing on "SMART luxury."

    "According to sources, Acura dealers are being told that going forward, Acura will be abandoning the 'Tier 1' initiative. The new focus is said to be 'Smart Luxury'." r-1-a.html

    "you show me the link to where people who own Acura's are saying that Acura isn't aluxury brand or pretends to be one; I'd love to see that!"


    Aside from the ones above -

    "I'm really sick of tired of people making these ridiculous claims that the Acura TSX and TL are rebadaged Accords and vice versa; I don't care what models they are outside this country, I only care about whats offered here! I found that people, like yourself, who make these ridiculous rebadage claims have either:

    A) can't afford the luxury cars themselves so decide to put them down as rebadaged version to make themselves feel better that they only can afford the mainstreams


    B) have never even test drove these models back to back in order to see the various differences between them that makes them separate entities"


    Funny, considering that I come from a family that long have driven BMWs and Porsches; and the no matter how one looks at it, the TSX IS the JDM/Euro Honda Accord.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    So... do we need a new discussion, "Is there room in the luxury market for Acura?"

  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    As already stated, the XG300 was the precursor to the Azera and thus, not a luxury model.

    And yeah, the XG was crappy, esp. the ones w/ Mitsu drivetrains and powerplants.

    Hyundai now is totally diff. from Hyundai of 6-12 yrs ago; much the same way that Honda of the 1980s was diff. from Honda of the 1960-70s.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,639
    I saw that one...didn't want to create a firestorm here by posting it :shades:

    Manufacturer plates too, nice. Maybe that's the "tuned" H I have heard about.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,639
    Oh, you can even get an S class with fake leather in Germany...of course, the average consumer can't tell it from the real thing.

    I haven't seen anyone else in the world classify the W204 C as a "stinker" inside...

    Firm no-nonsense interior design isn't a bad thing in the eyes of many. Germans have always gone for the austere treatment, as opposed to the nouveau riche Lexus ideal.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    OK, maybe "stinker" was a overly harsh (still holds true for the BMW X3) - but still disappointing for the price-range, esp. in comparison to the interior of the A4.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,639
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, Audi has made some admirable interiors, with much more detailing than BMW and MB...of course, it took long enough for the four-ringed cars themselves to catch up ;)

    I have owned various years of C, E, and S...and they all seem similar in their lack of showy details, which I am not complaining about. Form follows function.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    again, your links prove nothing but rumor and speculation! show me a link where honda and acura corporate stated they were canceling the V8 and RWD platform and then you'd have more credibility

    in fact, the one link lists the source as anonymous, yeah that's really proof positive, lol!!!! :D
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Why would I get an Acura when I could have the better driving dynamics (much less better prestige) and RWD of a BMW?

    As for the whole tier-1 luxury stuff, aside from the consensus on numerous auto boards catering to luxury buyers that Acura is NOT a tier 1 luxury brand, auto publications also say the same thing

    Acura isn't trying to compete with BMW in terms of sports performance and handling, they are trying to build a refined, well made, luxury vehicle that is good in all areas, much like MB; I've always thought BMWs were overpriced, glorified, overrated, race cars that could never beat or even come close to the resale value or reliability that Acura has and because of that I've felt BMW has lacked prestige because of those latter points! but everyone's idea of luxury and prestige is different, I don't think BMW is and you don't think Acura is so who cares!

    by the way, those suppose links where Acura owners don't think that Acura is that luxurious compared to the rest is all bogus and BS; I belong to two of those blogs and no one says that; that is def something you made up; plus your links open to nothing, no specific topic, etc!

    just because you and other's don't like their current styling cues does not mean they are not in tier 1 luxury now! plus, all those random links you posted from different sites are all people's opinion and speculation that they are not in tier 1 and doesn't mean anything to me since I've read several articles from some of those same sites among others stating the exact obvious so it doesn't prove anything

    your statement that you would never be in a Acura when you could be in a BMW, Audi, etc just goes to show your bias against them and why your opinion has not weight! again, go buy and own one, experience the dealership, sales process, etc and then come back and let us know; until you do that, you can't come close to giving a fair and un-bias opinion/review!
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    How's this then? n-rsx-successor/

    From the article:

    Just last summer, Acura dealers were told to look forward to a V8 version of the Acura RL. But the program was put on hold by Honda President Takanobu Ito as part of the company’s cost cutting efforts. Also gone was the rear-wheel-drive program, which has now been pushed back to 2015 at the earliest, report Automotive News
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    again, your providing the information from a third party auto blog; I want to see the press release from Honda or Acura stating they are canceling the V8 RWD platform for the time being; I'm searching Honda and Acura media newsroom right now!

    they better not have! it was suppose to go into the RL for the 2011 model year; God knows that car needs it to become their top car again and compete with the V8 options from Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Audi, and Mercedes
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    edited March 2010
    How about this then from Ward's Auto dated 7/29/2009. If you want to see it for yourself, you will need to purchase a subscription to login to their site.

    Acura Says Can Achieve Tier-1 Status Without RWD
    By Christie Schweinsberg, Jul 29, 2009 3:25 PM

    ROCHESTER, MI – Despite buzz from Japan that Honda Motor Co. Ltd. has shelved development of a rear-wheel-drive platform for its Acura luxury brand, a U.S. Acura official remains confident.
    “Can we compete with (first-tier luxury) brands Mercedes, Lexus and BMW without RWD? Yes,” Gary Robinson, assistant manager-Acura product planning, tells Ward’s Tuesday during an Acura media event.
    Robinson does not discuss the program’s cancellation, but new Honda CEO Takanobu Ito rocked the Acura faithful last week when he reportedly announced work had been halted on a RWD initiative.
    Analysts and industry watchers blame Acura’s prolonged near-luxury status on its lack of RWD platforms and V-8 engines.
    “It would be meaningless to emulate what other companies have been doing for more than five decades,” Ito reportedly said of nixing RWD and a V-8. Development of the latter had been championed by former Honda CEO Takeo Fukui.
    “Just when it seems like things were looking up for Acura…the news has been steadily getting worse for the past six months or so,” Jeff Palmer, founder of the enthusiast website Temple of VTEC, says in a posted response to Ito.
    “The cumulative effect of this series of blows is taking its toll on Acura's brand credibility amongst enthusiasts, which arguably drive a brand's overall image.”
    Robinson says Ito’s remarks were not defeatist in any way, just his way of saying Acura wants to carve out its own version of luxury instead of following competitors.

    Acura TSX V-6 variant signals brand strategy.
    “I don’t think Ito-san said anything that stood out in one way or another for us, because I think we’re all pretty clear on what the direction for Acura is,” Robinson says, adding Honda founder Soichiro Honda pioneered this sort of thinking.
    “His thing was about being a renegade and doing things his own way and trying to figure out what was the right thing for the market and the right thing for the customer… not just copying other people,” he says.
    “So, at Acura, that’s definitely something we’ve been thinking about a lot. What does it mean to make an Acura luxury car? You shouldn’t be like everybody else. We don’t want to be another Lexus; we don’t want to be another BMW; we don’t want to be another Mercedes.
    “We want somebody who’s shopping those cars to think of us in the same breath, and we want them to have a reason for buying our car that’s different.”
    Robinson is fuzzy about Acura’s brand direction but says boosting fuel economy is a major focus, noting any technology that improves fuel economy is “something we’re going to be looking at.”
    Those technologies include direct injection, cylinder deactivation, hybrid-electric vehicles and the possible migration of the 2.3L turbocharged 4-cyl. in the RDX small cross/utility vehicle to other Acura models.
    Expanding the engine’s use is “another one of those things we’re looking at as an option to improve fuel economy and another one that has the potential to offer both fuel economy and power,” Robinson says.
    Direct injection, while enabling more efficient combustion, has downsides such as added cost and noise, he says. A nearer-term fuel-economy solution is Acura’s first 6-speed automatic transmission, rolling out in the ’10 MDX CUV, as well as the new ’10 ZDX 4-door sports coupe, later this year.
    Compared with the ’09 MDX, which mated a 3.7L V-6 engine to a 5-speed automatic transmission, the ’10 MDX’s fuel-economy rating is expected to improve by 1 mpg (0.4 km/L) in both city and highway driving to 16-21 mpg (14.7-11.2 L/100 km) city/highway.
    The 6-speed transmission eventually will make its way into other Acura models, Robinson says. Near-term it also is set to power the ZDX.
    Despite Acura’s fuel-economy aspirations, don’t expect a diesel engine from the brand. Honda says the 4-cyl. i-DTEC turbodiesel mill, a version of which powers the European Honda Accord, sold as the TSX in the U.S., is delayed.
    Sources told Ward’s last fall the engine was destined for the TSX.
    Related Stories
    New Honda CEO: U.S. Recovery to Take Two Years or More

    Honda Cancels Acura Diesel

    Reports of Acura’s Death Greatly Exaggerated, Says Exec

    American Honda Motor Co. Inc. spokesman Chuck Schifsky says to get the diesel back on track isn’t a simple matter of picking up where development left off. Engineers would need to reevaluate diesel’s position in the U.S. market from the point in time they decide to reinsert the engine into the product pipeline.
    However, Acura will use its Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive system to enhance its luxury cachet. Already featured on the RL and MDX, the system debuts this fall on the TL sedan, Robinson says.
    “We like what it’s done for the brand. Our customers like it. It’s been a very good image thing for Acura,” he says. “The technology itself will continue to evolve.”
    Customer research shows AWD is becoming a must-have feature for luxury buyers, Robinson says, regardless of where they live.
    Other future strategies include introducing more variants of existing models. That already is taking place with the ’10 TSX, going on sale soon. It benefits from Acura’s optional 3.5L V-6 engine, a step up from its standard-equipment 2.4L inline 4-cyl.
    “All of us now have to look at Civic-, Accord- and CR-V-type vehicles on the Honda side (and) that volume number,” says Schifsky. “I don’t know if we’re ever going to see those kinds of (high-volume) vehicles crop up again.”
    “Niching the niche of a niche” is any auto maker’s best hope for volume growth and expansion of its lineup, he adds. “We’re in as good a position as anybody to capitalize on that (strategy).”

    Now back to our regularly scheduled topic. ;)
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