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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • "Seems Infiniti is mimicking that awful Hyundai styling, eh? "

    or more accurately the Hyundai is mimicking the last generation BMW 5-series? Look at the side profile of the tail lights, the moderated banglebutt, etc. or the "door bump" to the american muscle cars (charger / camaro, etc.), to name a few.

    until we start to produce flying cars, there are going to be many similarities among the brands and it is hard to invent something original and Hyundai, unlike the Japanese, is doing a fine job copying other manufacturers' styling successes.

    unless, of course, they come up with something truly originally ugly, like the banglebutt.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    So what do you call all those Genesis sedans, especially the 4.6s, running around on the streets? Are they figments of our imagination?

    If Hyundai has not carved out room in the luxury market, if brand names reign supreme as some here insist... why would ANYONE buy a Genesis sedan? Why wouldn't they spend some more money to get a REAL luxury car, one with one of those "luxury" brand names?

    If I start a discussion called, "Why Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus, and all other luxury brands are toast because of Hyundai"--does that make that assertion true?

    the very existence of this discussion and your herculean efforts, in vain, to insist otherwise clearly shows that Hyundai has not "clearly carved out ROOM in the luxury market".

    Your implication that because a discussion exists to discuss a topic, the only possible answer to the question posed by the topic is "NO" is ridiculous.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Yes, I agree that M looks really, really similar to the Equus--which was on the market before the M.

    The last generation 5 Series has a totally different roofline, tailamps, front end, and side detaling (no "swoosh" character line as on the Equus, or the M for that matter).
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,342
    Yes, the Equus isn't derived from the old 5er - the Genesis takes that honor.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,342
    Infiniti doesn't have a knack for classic timeless designs, itself. And yes, the new M is pretty homely, too.

    But just look at those 5 foot wide light assemblies, the garish toothy grille...the hilarious hood ornament...it is good looking for people who think good architecture is found on 6000sq ft stapled-together face brick cardboard and plywood abodes...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,342
    What percentage of volume is made up by the highline car? And well how are these things selling outside of the NA market?
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,665
    Lol, from your several comments about McMansions and 6,000 sq. ft cardboard houses, I assume that you live in a very small, modest (cheap) but tastefully decorated non luxury home.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Do you know how easy it is to change the front fascia on a car? Really easy. The Equus we see pictured was designed for the ROK market first and foremost. If too many buyers in other countries don't like the grille or large headlamps, they are easily changed. Although headlamps in general are pretty large these days--Hyundai doesn't have a monopoly on that.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 13,617
    The Equus we see pictured was designed for the ROK market first and foremost.

    Actually that Equus is the one coming here to the US sometime this year (by the end of summer?) and is on display at the Chicago Auto Show.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • "So what do you call all those Genesis sedans, especially the 4.6s, running around on the streets? "

    Genesis? otherwise known as cheap wannabe luxury sedans.

    "Are they figments of our imagination? "

    no. the success of those Genesis proved, beyond any doubt, that there is a substantial segment of the market that demands inexpensive knock-off "luxury" cars with lots of fancy feature of unproven functionality and questionable value.

    "If Hyundai has not carved out room in the luxury market, if brand names reign supreme as some here insist... why would ANYONE buy a Genesis sedan? "

    many possible reasons: they don't know better? they are cheap? they love fancy features over functionality? they are crazy? ...

    "Why wouldn't they spend some more money to get a REAL luxury car, one with one of those "luxury" brand names? "

    they didn't have the money? they are already stretched beyond their ability to buy that Hyundai and they couldn't have stretched any more?

    "If I start a discussion called, "Why Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus, and all other luxury brands are toast because of Hyundai"--does that make that assertion true? "

    no, other than that you can always find a sucker for anything.

    "Your implication that because a discussion exists to discuss a topic, the only possible answer to the question posed by the topic is "NO" is ridiculous."

    no. the existence of the discussion proves that Hyundai has not CLEARLY carved out a segment of the market. Otherwise, the discussion wouldn't have existed.

    However, it is ridiculous to say that Hyundai has clearly carved out a segment in the market because it has sold a Genesis. Anyone can sell anything to a sucker, as long as you look hard enough. The fact that you have sold something doesn't make that something a luxury sedan, or indicate that you have carved out a segment in that market.
  • "it is good looking for people who think good architecture is found on 6000sq ft stapled-together face brick cardboard and plywood abodes..."

    it is looking for owners who want attentions to their cars.

    Not that there is anything wrong with it but I prefer a vehicle that severely understates itself.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,342
    edited February 2010
    Yes, I don't live in a mcmansion.

    But really, just look at that thing. It's a styling nightmare. Just when we think BMW is reforming itself and ugly is on the way out...look what marches in. :shades:

    Tacky, bland, and blingy...just doesn't say "luxury". Maybe the Kia Amanti stylists had a pet project.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,342
    edited February 2010
    If it's easy (and yes, a new front clip should be easy), then why hasn't it been done?

    And the rest of the car resembles a supersized Azera to me. Kind of a Honda steering wheel in there too. Blah...the Genesis is a lot more together.

    Yes, other makers than H have fallen into the lazy styling trick of large light clusters somehow being exciting...doesn't mean it looks decent, though.
  • "Tacky, bland, and blingy...just doesn't say "luxury"."

    since we all agreed earlier that there is no common meaning to the word "luxury", tacky, bland and bingy might just be Hyundai's interpretation of "luxury".

    and from the look here, that is exactly what some Hyundai owners are looking for in their luxury vehicles.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,665
    Gosh, you made up your mind on very little evidence. You haven't even seen the car in person, sat in it, ridden in it, or driven it. You don't even know if that picture is the final product, yet you have made up your mind that this is one of the sorriest cars you have ever laid eyes on !!

    Does that sound rational to you?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    edited February 2010
    So I guess we should change the name of the topic to, "Is there room in the luxury market for Hyundai, for buyers that millwood0 doesn't consider to be suckers or crazy?"

    Or just maybe... all those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy. :P

    As for the existence of this topic proving that Hyundai has CLEARLY not carved out a segment of the luxury market... consider this topic was created over a year before the first Genesis sedans came to the U.S. market. There was understandably a lot of uncertainty in mid-2007 as to whether Hyundai's entry into the luxury market would be a success. There was lots of conjecture and opinion over what would happen. And no one knew for sure back then how it would shake out.

    But now it's 2010. We don't have to guess anymore. Tens of thousands of Genesis sedans have been sold in the US alone. The opinion of the automotive press on the Genesis has been overwhelmingly positive. (Maybe they are all suckers or crazy also!) Buyers like the cars also (look to the right--how many 9.7+ ratings do you see on Edmunds.com?) The Equus is on its way, despite those who don't like its hood ornament. If tens of thousands of buyers of cars, cars that automotive professionals agree are "luxury" cars, doesn't constitute a "segment" of the marketplace, I don't know what does.
  • 'So I guess we should change the name of the topic to, "Is there room in the luxury market for Hyundai, for buyers that millwood0 doesn't consider to be suckers or crazy?" '

    no, as long as you understand that there are different shades of "luxury" or "room" in the discussion.

    "Or just maybe... all those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy. "

    I know for sure that not "those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy".

    I also know for sure that some "those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy."

    does that help?

    "But now it's 2010. We don't have to guess anymore."

    isn't that the same as insisting that Hyundai has "clearly" carved out a segment of the market?

    you haven't added any new information / argument to the same discussion.

    Again, just because someone is selling something in a market doesn't mean that someone has "carved out a segment of the market".

    "Tens of thousands of Genesis sedans have been sold in the US alone. "

    Yugo sold far more cars in the US than Hyundai has sold the Genesis here. Wouldn't it be silly, retrospectively, for someone to proclaim that Yugo had carved out a ("luxury") segment of the market in 1990 because it had sold more than 100K of those "luxury" vehicles in the US?

    for all intent and purposes, the Genesis may go down the same path.

    "The opinion of the automotive press on the Genesis has been overwhelmingly positive."

    so were those guys on Yugo. or the Aztek for that matter.

    "(Maybe they are all suckers or crazy also!)"

    some of them certainly are, but not all of them are.

    "Buyers like the cars also (look to the right--how many 9.7+ ratings do you see on Edmunds.com?)"

    too bad we didn't have edmunds.com back in the Yugo days but I am sure it would have done better.

    "If tens of thousands of buyers of cars, cars that automotive professionals agree are "luxury" cars, doesn't constitute a "segment" of the marketplace, I don't know what does."

    well, if you don't know about it and you have to rely on herd behavior, you should at least consider the risk of following the herd. Mr. Madoff was also highly considered by many highly respected upstanding citizens of our society and look what herd behaviors got his investors.

    think for yourself. Always think for yourself.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    you haven't added any new information / argument to the same discussion.

    I did. You chose to ignore it. Since that is the way it's going to be, then rather than wade through more non sequiturs on Yugos, Bernie Madoff, etc., I'll just say.. bye! Have a great rest of the weekend.

    P.S. Buying a car, or other product, because it has a certain brand label stamped on it is the epitome of "herd behavior."
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited February 2010
    I agree with a lot of what you said millwood but while I like the Genesis, the simple fact is, and this is where I disagree with backy a little bit but that BMW, Lexus, MB, and Infiniti have been around a lot longer then Hyundai has and to be honest I didn't really care for Hyundai and didn't really pay much attention to them until I saw the Genesis on the road for the first time and then subsequently at the NY Auto Show!

    when the Genesis first came out, on several occasions I mistakently thought it was a BMW-5 series, GS, and E-Class on several different occasions; while I like the Genesis's look, for someone, and even professional auto motive people to mistake it too, that means that Hyundai did a good job of copying several other luxury automakers in producing and designing the Genesis - now don't get me wrong, that is not necessarily a bad thing on Hyundai's part because like I said that got me to really look at the Genesis and say "holy shi$#, its a Hyundai, holy crap, I thought it was Bimmer!"

    other people have nicked-picked my comparisons of the Avalon and Maxima but while I understand they are a different class of car then the Genesis they are equal in regards to prices on the V6 models and being the top sedan class for Toyota, Nissan, and Hyundai which directly compete with each other

    its hard to say Hyundai competes directly with Lexus, MB, BMW, or Infiniti since they only have one luxury vehicle; despite whether you like the Genesis or not, you have to give credit to the facts that the Genesis has sold pretty well last year!

    whether or not you agree the Genesis is a luxury sedan or not, I personally feel after seeing it and driving it that it is, Hyundai as a whole is not luxurious with any of its other models! Hyundai is a main stream auto division structured and on the same level as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan

    no matter whether you like Hyundai or not, you have to admit that the Genesis really put Hyundai on the map, at least it did for me, because when you have a car that gets mistaken for a BMW, MB, Lexus, or Infiniti you know that is going to raise a few eyebrows that hadn't been raised before!!
  • "you have to admit that the Genesis really put Hyundai on the map"

    I agree with that completely. they have made nice gains in entering that market. no doubt about it at all.

    My point is that their fate there is largely unknown at this point. I can honestly say that I have yet to say a Genesis in my neighborhood / town. None, zippo, nil. and I live in a neighborhood where mb/bmw/jaq are like a toyota or ford, in terms of popularity.

    I would say that the (highly) unscientific confirmation of Hyundai having carved out a segment of the luxury market would be if I start to run into a Genesis maybe once or twice a week.

    I would think that we are at least five years away from that, to be very aggressive (for Hyundai).

    another point that the Hyundai advocates frequently fail to comprehend is that features aren't the same. I give you a couple examples: we got an Infiniti G37 and also a BMW 530. the G has 300+ horses vs. the BMW's 200, and a 7-speed transmission vs.t he BMW's 5-speed.

    the BMW drives much better and off the line much faster than the Infiniti, in spite of the fact that number for number the BMW is an inferior car.

    You don't have to respect the established brands but from time to time, they do have tricks and there are perfectly valid reasons for them to be at top of the market, while other "seemingly" superior cars / brands at the bottom.
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