Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

1231232234236237

Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Actually I expect the first Azera didn't take much to develop. It was based on the Gen 4 Sonata platform and its engines (with the 3.3L bored out to 3.8L and used in other applications). I do recall some marketing around the time of its launch, but at the same time or right after that came the launch of a new Accent sedan and hatch, a new Santa Fe, the all-new Veracruz, and then a new Elantra.

    Anyway, the arrival of the new Azera in the USA in 2012 has been confirmed by Hyundai. I expect a starting price in the upper $20s, to slot it just above the Sonata Limited (which starts around $25k) and below the Genesis 3.8 (which starts at $33k today). If companies like Toyota, Nissan, and Ford can offer a FWD vehicle in this price range, why not Hyundai?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited February 2011
    Actually what I think was said is that some Hyundai owners have been told they have to use dealer service or risk lack of warranty coverage.

    I've read similar owner comments on the forums here from time to time. Lots of dealers do it, not just Hyundai. Seems like Hyundai has more complaints though.

    Even though tie-in sales are illegal under Magnuson-Moss, lots of people don't know that.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    I recall the Granada ads. Pretty ridiculous. Although not too terrible a car for its time and price.

    Professional auto reviewers on this continent don't want to offend advertisers, first and foremost.

    So you are saying companies like Toyota don't advertise in auto mags? So when a mag trashes a big-selling car like the Camry, it's because Toyota does not now or never will advertise in that mag? Riiiiiight.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    edited February 2011
    What was said was:

    ...you have to have every little (frequent) service performed by them (Hyundai), or else risk denial of a claim later.

    I've heard the complaint from owners of other brands about some dealers being deceptive on warranty practices. There's rotten dealers all over, unfortunately. But this was singling out one company as a general rule, which is 1) not fair and 2) not true.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited February 2011
    What was said was " I can't tell you the number of times I have read and also chatted with new Hyundai owners, ".

    And like I said, I read a lot of posts around here and it seems like Hyundai and their dealers have a bit of a reputation for trying to deny warranty claims. More so than other makes, although I haven't run the numbers.

    The worse though was the Mazda attempt to deny a warranty claim because the VIN wasn't printed on the quick lube receipt.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I think sometimes "Character" is used as a code word for "Qirkiness" or "Leaks oil and has electrical gremlins". :blush:

    Handling was over rated for those old boats. Almost any tight new car can turn in better handling, acceleration, and braking numbers.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Yes, Hyundai, the champion of automotive innovation. So much of what we enjoy in modern cars was born in Korea. Right.

    I think what happened in the past is irrelevant. US companies developed the TV, but I don't guess you have a US made TV in your family room. Right now, everyone is drooling over the new Samsung TV's. I think Korea in general and Hyundai in particular is full of energy right now, and turning out very competent cars. Don't underestimate Korea and Koreans. I think this is just the beginning for them. Germany's best days are behind them, Korea's are still 10 years out. 5 years from now, the Genesis and Equus will be seen as baby steps on their way to domination of several segments.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited February 2011
    MB innovations - honeycomb radiator, float carburetor, fuel injection, direct injection, 4 wheel brakes, crumple zones, traction control, ESP, brake assist, diesel passenger cars, turbodiesels, double glazing, mass production of ABS and airbags, and that's just off the top of my head.

    Oh how I wish my Hyundai had a float carburetor. Makes me feel so inadequate. ;)

    Just kidding, MB certainly was filled with energy and innovation back in the day, but that day is in its twilight. The energy now is in Japan and Korea. Even Japan is fading a bit, continuing to cash in on their former excellence but not continuing to innovate at their former rate. There's a pattern to this. Success leads to conservatism (small c) and complacency. The bubble of innovation and excellence inflate here and there around the globe, then eventually pops.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Manson, WAPosts: 7,086
    edited February 2011
    although I'm partial to Mitsubishi I really am impressed with Hyundai/Kia and also Ford. Chrysler and GM products are now becoming buyable again, too, which is good because the world's #1 volume Chrysler dealer is about a half-mile down the mountainside from me here in little 'ole Kellogg, ID. :P

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Don't hit the pole then

    My wife is a rear end crash magnet.

    A big Buick knocked her 5mph 77 Rabbit 20 feet, no damage.

    A month ago, her 06 Sonata took a bone-jarring hit from a Honda minivan. We thought the bumper cover was ruined, but once we scraped all the Honda's paint off, the bumper and paint were fine. We were amazed, because that hit was at least 5mph.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Germany's best days are behind them

    Not at all. Thanks to the largely no-speed-limit autobahn, German cars will continue to lead the world in driving dynamics. If you've ever driven in Germany, as I have, then this won't surprise you. Want to run with the big dogs on the A89 leg without humiliating yourself? Then you'll need something built in Munich or Stuttgart. Deutschland Uber Alles, my friend.

    I don't think that you can legally drive anywhere in Asia at speeds over 100 kph. That's why Asian cars, whether Korean or Japanese, simply aren't as satisfying to drive. That won't change anytime soon. North American car buyers who genuinely enjoy driving & appreciate superior road dynamics will pay the premium that German iron commands.

    I have nothing but respect for Hyundai - in fact, when the time comes to replace my wife's Lexus, we'll certainly check out Hyundai's offerings - but I think that most of their sales gains will continue to come at the expense of the Japanese brands for years to come.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    I've never seen any real "trashing" in any American mag.

    There were ads with scenes of people confusing a Mercedes for a Granada - like getting into the wrong car. That's like someone confusing a CLS with a new Sonata. Actually, there's a parallel there.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    edited February 2011
    It was still money, nobody has an endless expense account, even if they are coddled and aided by their nation.

    Remember from a while ago...MSRP is 33K, but they can be had at a nice discount. Isn't Hyundai supposed to be offering a superior alternative in the Genesis to those FWD barges rather than playing with them?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    edited February 2011
    I'll take you up on that 5 year prediction.

    Germany's best days behind them? Insane, please detail that claim. All of the big German makes have been advancing at rapid pace in the past 5 years, leaving their turn of the century woes behind them. The Germans have learned they can win via economics and engineering, and won't back down from a battle now. You don't want to take on that opponent.

    I'll eat my shoes when the Equus and Genesis sell as well on a global basis compared to what they seek to emulate.

    TVs and cars are not the same, completely different mentality and marketing. I'll say that while saying I actually own a great Samsung TV (along with a sometimes iffy Samsung phone).
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    edited February 2011
    Have you been near the gadgetry in a new MB? The German makes are full of energy now, they realize they slipped up about a decade ago, and are rapidly leaving those days as a distant memory. Remember, their sales have been growing by leaps and bounds too, and they are still the cars everyone seems to want. Which new technologies are being pioneered by the swoopy H that can compare with what I listed?
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    Just got back from my dealership here in South Florida and was told that they are building a separate showroom next door that will only house the Genesis/Equus vehicles. They said they are building for the future as Genesis will become its own brand.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    edited February 2011
    Isn't Hyundai supposed to be offering a superior alternative in the Genesis to those FWD barges rather than playing with them?

    A lot of people buy those FWD barges. What's wrong with Hyundai trying to grab some of those buyers? And if they want something different from a FWD barge, there's the Genesis.

    Any luxury car these days can be had at a nice discount. In fact, in 2010 the biggest incentives offered were on (in decreasing size of discount): Maybach, S Class (ex. 12 cylinders), M6 softtop, 6 Series, and (tie) CL63 AMG / CL550. The next five were all 2009 model Caddies, Saabs, or Range Rovers. (From C/D 1/11.)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    I read that the price of entry for selling the Equus was to have a separate showroom of some sort. Kind of odd that Hyundai would make Genesis its own brand when it's doing nothing to associate Equus with the Genesis name.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Which new technologies are being pioneered by the swoopy H that can compare with what I listed?

    I would put lithium polymer batteries in the category of significant automotive technologies. Hyundai is a pioneer in deploying those. They are also a pioneer in GDI technology. No, they didn't invent GDI, but they are applying it much more extensively than anyone else I can think of. And Blue Light has some unique features in it, such as Eco-Coach. Just a few examples. I won't list all 1500+ patents. (wink)

    Not sure how much work Hyundai did on carburetors. Those were getting extinct by the time Hyundai launched its first car. Maybe the Pony had carbs.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    It implied that to me that only the Genesis and Equus would be sold in the new showroom and expand the current showroom yet using the service center in the back for both. The dealership would be ready for the future announcements concerning Hyundai luxury brand when that occurs they couldn't tell me. Everything(the showrooms) should be done by early 2012.
    My information is only as good as what the salesman said but it does show that the dealer is spending some big bucks and they have some sort of a blueprint that they are following.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    Why not seek to get them to make a marginal price upgrade and buy the Genesis? Of course, that would be helped if AWD was finally offered, like it is in the cars the Gen wants to emulate.

    But the Genesis is supposed to be a revolution and not some six figure plutocrat barge with insane profit margins, right?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    I'll turn my head when I see those Li-poly units in cars on the street. Probably won't be prevalent in the luxury end anyway. In regards to gdi, if you aren't there in the beginning, you aren't a pioneer. I like how H is running with the idea, as I believe in the tech, and it (along with some others who are doing it concurrently) will encourage others to do so. I will give an A for effort, anyway. Eco-coach, isn't that just a nagging nanny? I think that's been done before. I have seen "blue link"...maybe some fun stuff, but no real pioneering that I can see.

    Examine how primitive fuel delivery systems are on those veteran cars that existed before the Germans modernized the ideal. It was a huge jump at that time, at least as equal to any new hybrid/battery ideals today.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Maybe you could read up a bit on Eco-Coach. It's not a "nagging nanny."

    Hyundai is on a mission to get their fleet mpg average up, way ahead of the EPA regs. So I don't think the Sonata is the last Hyundai application we'll see for the lithium polymer battery. Other automakers offer luxury hybrids--why not Hyundai? Although I'd bet we'll see an Elantra hybrid before a Genesis or Equus--much higher sales volume means more impact on fleet mpg.

    As for the Azera... does it bother you somehow that Hyundai wants to offer a FWD V6 car that slots in between the Sonata and Genesis? It seems to. You might as well go tell Toyota to ditch the Avalon--why do they need something between the Camry and the ES? That's even worse in a way than Hyundai, because the ES is FWD too, like the Avalon. Or tell Nissan to ditch the Maxima--it's even smaller inside than the Altima, and has the same V6. Not even an engine to differentiate the two, unlike Sonata/Azera/Genesis.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    Per the website: "Eco-Coach is a scoring system that allows you to track mileage and CO2 emissions on the Blue Link® Owner’s website, then gives you advice on how to improve driving habits to improve your efforts."

    Sounds like a nag, like a new version of old fashioned economy gauges.

    Other luxury hybrids are marginal players anyway, so H would be advised to try to gain some kind of solid footing in the upper end before going that way. And don't give it that gaping maw either :shades:

    Nothing H does is meaningful enough to me to cause "bother", I just find it questionable. Not everything the swoopy H does is perfect just because their propaganda minister likes to talk. Perhaps if Genesis/Equus spun of into its own brand, it could then have a position as the top H. I just like to laugh about the Azera/Grandeur (a grand car in what market?????) ...40K+ Euro...hilarious.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    How can Eco-Coach be a "nagging nanny" when you have to be sitting at a computer looking at a web site to use it? As the name says, it's a "coach", not some flashing light or dial or other "nagging nanny" in the car. And how can it "nag" you if you choose not to visit the web site?

    That "gaping maw" has class-leading Cd. You want Hyundai to be innovative, don't you?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    Not much difference between a coach and a nag. It's an economy gauge on the computer, reminds me of the guilt meter on my old S-class...I'd run it in red just to laugh at it :shades: ...thrifty driving isn't any kind of mystery.

    The boring boxy angular E-class also has an astonishing Cd, and no big mouth. I don't know if the look is aero....but it is kind of trendy. No matter, Sonata hybrid is no luxury car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Since the E Class sedan has the same Cd as the Sonata Hybrid sedan, .25, I guess you'll agree that the Sonata's Cd is "astonishing" also.

    The Hyundai luxury cars aren't too shabby on drag either: .27 for both. Very competitive in their classes.

    Too bad that old S Class had a "nagging nanny". Maybe that's why Hyundai took a different approach with Blue Light Eco-Coach. You don't see it unless you WANT to.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    image

    Looks a bit like they tried to copy a 1997 Cadillac DeVille.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Looks more like the early LS to me, especially the greenhouse.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,216
    Looks like a Beijing-built 1995 Lexus LS
Sign In or Register to comment.