Buying a Used Lincoln LS

dzenis

Hey guys, Well iam looking to purchase a used 2003 or 2004 lincoln LS. Iam looking to get the 3.0L v6 to save some gas money but I heard that the 3.0L v6 experiances more problems then the 3.6L v8, could this be true?

socaldodger

Hi, I am thinking of purchasing a 2001 LS (V8). It is completely loaded, but it has 97000 miles. The dealer price is $9,700.

Would you guys mind providing your opinions? Thanks!

g45

This is a car designed to go 150,000 miles. If your car is in good cosmetic shape, and if YOUR mechanic says the car has no obvious problems and has not been in an accident:

Consider making an offer on the car. You would not go the full asking price, but after you do your homework you could consider making an offer.

I passed up a stick shift 2000 with 90K for $7K and have been kicking myself ever since. Your 2001 is a better car, without the 2000's startup problems. But for that kind of money it must be in good cosmetic and mechanical shape. There is no room $$-wise to put in more money AFTER purchase. Carfax and Autocheck are obvious must-haves as a precursor to your purchase. Get the dealer to pay for them if you can.

Good luck.

kingjames

I dont know, I have 2000 ls with the v8 and i got it for 13900. no accidents excellent condition with only 36k miles on it.

cdnpinhead

Well, this is a sample of one, but my 2000 V6 turned 112K this morning on the way in to work, and a week from today I'm leaving on a ~7300 mile road trip to the Yukon. The only problem I've had is with the cooling fan, which isn't really an engine issue.

The V8 tends to have "issues" with the valve cover gaskets and/or COP's (coil-on-plug); one appears to be associated with the other. Either way, I haven't heard of it on the 6.

The '03 & later cars have a lot of nice little touches mine doesn't have. Hope you enjoy yours, if you get one.

jeyhoe

First of all, the V8 in the LS is a 4.0 liter and it is a Jaguar engine. Second, hard to answer your question. But I think the V8 might be a bit more prone to trouble just because the 3.0 liter V6, which is the much used Ford Duratec, has been described by more than one tech and opinion maker as nearly bulletproof.

akirby

the V8 in the LS is a 4.0 liter and it is a Jaguar engine

Actually it's a 3.9L and while the block is a Jaguar AJV8 the pistons, heads, intake etc. are unique to Lincoln. It's an unbelievably smooth engine but as Steve noted it is prone to leaking valve cover gaskets and COP failures.

The only downside to the V6 is that it's not available with the Sport package (unless you're in Canada).

jeyhoe

Ah, what's a tenth of a liter amoung friends?

But the V6 most certainly IS available with the sport package. In fact in the first 3 years, it was available with a sport package which could have an auto-stick or what is known as a "stick shift" transmission with an actual clutch. I dont think you'll EVER see that in a Lincoln again.

If you're talking later years, the V6 may have been dropped from the sports package, I dunno. In 2006 I believe, the V6 was dropped altogether and only V8 LSes were built.

akirby

Ahem - I bought a LS when they first came out and have been active in a group of LS enthusiasts that started right here on Edmunds back in 1999. I think I know what I'm talking about.

The sport and base packages were available on both V6 and V8 models for 00-02 including a manual for the V6. They planned the same packages (minus the manual) for the 03 models but the dealers complained about too many unique models so they only made base V6 models and sport V8 models for 03-05 and then they dropped the V6 models altogether for 06. Although in Canada you could still get a V6 sport or V8 base model.

maybels

Hello,
I live in Canada and am considering buying a used 2000 Lincoln LS V8 with 254,000 KM which is almost 125,000 miles. I know the KMs for this car are really high but I am getting a really good deal. I will be getting this car for $5000 canadian including taxes.

Is this a good deal? The car is fully loaded with all options!

I test drove the car and it drove amazing like my friends benz or audi. Also, the exterior is perfect plus or minus a couple of dings. The car has been in no accidents and is being bought from a dealers auction.

akirby

If it's in good shape - that's not a bad price at all. Look out for leaky valve cover gaskets and the COPS will probably need to be replaced if they haven't been already. Make sure the driver's side seat heater works and also the A/C - some will blow hot on one side or the other. You'll love it! Send me an email (look in my profile) if you want some other LS resources.

cdnpinhead

My '00 LS has just 5K miles less than the one you're looking at, and it's never been better (well, not really, but it's running strong). I just got back from a 7500-mile round trip to Alaska & didn't have any problems at all. The shocks are shot, though (lots of frost heaves up there & on the way), but that's a wear item, and they lasted well over 100K.

Remember, FoMoCo builds the cars that many use for taxis & limos, and they do last a long time.

The only thing I can think of that Allen didn't mention is the window regulators. For the first few years rear windows fell down regularly (the fronts sometimes, too) & it took a couple of tries before a sufficiently robust replacement design was developed & installed. Your car is old enough to have probably already had the ones replaced that were going to break.

Good luck! I think you'll enjoy the car if you end up getting it.

akirby

How could I forget the window regulators? Chances are they've already been replaced with the new design but if not and they fail you can order a replacement for $30 and install it yourself in about 2 hours for the first time, 45 minutes after that.

victoria351

Hey,

I bought my 2000 LS for close to 13,000 in 2004. It only had 64,000 miles. I have only put 20,000 miles on the car since I got it because I have had so many problems with it. I would be very careful with the choice you make. Think it over. My father told me this car is like the Titanic, it just keeps going down down down!

jetstang

I love my LS for it's style, handling and power, it is a great road car. I am glad to have owned one, but for reliability I would give it a big NO!!! Do not buy this car, what a pain in the a@@ and everything is hard/impossible to work on. There are obvious design flaws in the car that should be recalled and are not. I read a forum that said not to buy one with under 60K on it, because by then most of the problems should be fixed. I bought mine at 58K and have replaced 6 COPS-coil over plugs, valve cover gaskets that leaked so bad they destroyed the COPS, coolant control valve, and now my clock spring is bad causing the cruise not to work and the airbag light to come on. The ignition key won't turn on 50% of the time, have to play with it., and the key bell stays on when you try to get out of the car and you have to push the ring around the key to turn it off. the third brake light melts the housing. Today the rear caliper hung up and smoked the pads. Why did Lincoln completely redesign the car after 6 years of production, and drop the LS all together??? This car is a really sharp car with all the bells and whistles that will leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, or I just OWN a :lemon: Oh, it's for sale in your price range, get with me, lol... I own a Dodge ram with 180K, good truck, 99 and 86 Corvettes, reliable, 91 5.0 Mustang Convertible, reliable car. All my cars have more miles and FAR LESS PROBLEMS.

jeyhoe

Posting only as a fair and balanced counterpoint - my 01 LS has over 90K on it and I've spent $0 on unscheduled maintenance. Tires twice and brakes once. That's it. I do need to replace the front sway bar bushings now due to noises, so that'll be my first fix.

Sorry to hear of your troubles with yours. Some of em are pretty reliable, some not so much I guess. Used cars are pretty much a crapshoot.

brucelinc

I will also provide some balance. I have one of the earliest LS V8s - built 4/99. In about 110,000 miles, the only issues I have had were 2 bad COPs ( at over 100,000 miles) and a faulty heated seat element. (also over 100,000 miles) Mine is as tight and quiet as ever and still runs like a champ. It has never leaked or used a drop of oil.

There were a couple of TSBs for the PCM that were performed early in the car's life but otherwise mine has exceeded expectations. I know from reading all of the posts that this is not always the case so I am not trying to convince anyone to buy or not buy a used LS.

If I recall correctly, someone long ago posted some data showing the most problematic LSs were built early in the 2000 calendar year. The really early ones like mine tended to be pretty decent and the '01s were much better. Window regulators, heated seat elements, and leaking valve covers were well known issues in the early days. I really haven't heard of any common flaws in the 2003s or newer.

jetstang

Are yours V6 or V8s? The V6 is a tried and true ford design while the V8 is a "new" Jaguar design, totally different animal. Mine is an 01 with only 68K miles, not abused or neglected. Beyond the engine, the only problems I have had are the coolant control valve and clockspring, not too bad.

brucelinc

The AJ V8 was first used in Jaguars around 1997 and is the same basic engine used in LS V8s, although the LS had a tad shorter stroke and lacked variable valve timing until 2003. If I recall correctly, it made the Wards 10 best engine list for some time. Valve cover sealing in the spark plug holes was an issue for awhile but otherwise the mechanicals are sound. It is one of the smoothest and most refined sounding engines around. I love to hear mine sing to 6500 RPM.

Jeyhoe will jump in here and talk about his V6 but I think he has one of those rare birds where you actually push in a clutch pedal and move a lever around to change gears. Rather quaint......

akirby

the LS had a tad shorter stroke

1 mm shorter IIRC (85mm vs. 86mm).

I remember when Chris Wardlaw was Editor-in-Chief here at Edmunds and wrote that Ford couldn't even figure out the displacement on the AJ V8 with Jag calling it a 4.0 and Lincoln a 3.9. I wrote and tried to explain that the stroke was different which made the displacement different between the two engines. His reply? What does stroke have to do with displacement? Gee, I don't know - which glass holds the most water: the tall one or the short one (same diameter)?

And this was the so-called Editor-in-Chief of an automotive website. There were other issues with that bozo but that's my favorite one.

brucelinc

I remember that. There was someone, maybe the same guy, who couldn't figure out why there was no battery under the hood.

akirby

Yep, that was him. He also complained about the trans shifting which we LS owners already knew could be fixed with a TSB and a new PCM program. So I sent him an email telling him there was a TSB to fix it. So he chose to "test" the service writer and just complained about the poor shifting to see if they'd find the TSB on their own. They didn't and he didn't bother to tell them to check the TSB. As a consequence they continued to drive the car another few months, all the while complaining about the poor shifting that could have been fixed months earlier.

Then again, if these guys were really good automotive journalist they wouldn't be working for edmunds.com, would they?

jeyhoe

Mine's the V6. With manual tranny.

jetstang

Well, I guess I unknowingly walked into a hornets nest of LS lovers, my bad, car is great, love it!!! Please cancel my linching party, lol... I bought my LS at 58K and it had problems when I bought it. Like the exterior temperature indicator reads wrong, and needs reprogramming, but if I want it done I have to pay??? Valve cover leak because of DEFECTIVE SEALS, destroying my cops, known defect, no Lincoln recall to repair??? If the brakes wear out on my car, I will fix them as that is a wear item, no problem, as are tires, clutches, timing belts... AC seals leak, you get the AC serviced. I really like the car and the cool features, auto dimming mirror, auto wipers, I guess my issue is with dealer support to resolve manufacturing quality defects.

akirby

Lincoln's response to these problems is the same as all other manufacturers - they're not safety defects and thus no recall is required. If they fail during the warranty period, they're covered. If they fail outside the warranty period they're not covered. Some cars had the valve cover gasket failure, some didn't.

brucelinc

hahahaha No linching party, Jetstang! I don't think very many of us LS lovers would say that all the LSs are perfect!

I don't know how long you have had your car or what your relationship is with the dealer but if it had problems when you bought it, couldn't you have had them fix it before accepting the vehicle? I can understand that you wouldn't know if the valve covers were leaking onto the COPs but if there was a misfire when you bought the car, or the temp indicator was incorrect, why not say, "I will buy it for $XXXXX subject to you repairing the items we have found." Of course, if you bought from a private party, all of that goes out the window.

Also, there is nothing wrong with politely asking for some "help" from Ford or the dealer when a pricey service item is discovered - particularly when you are just a few thousand miles out of warranty. Dealers vary but some will go to bat for you.

I hope my comments didn't add insult to injury.

akirby

All Lincolns are *eligible* for 2 AWAs (After Warranty Adjustments) where the dealer and/or Ford pay for some or all of the cost of the repairs. The trick is your dealer has to request it. It's worth a shot.

brucelinc

You bet it is worth a shot. My heated seat element died after my car was 6 years old and had 100,000 miles. My dealer went to bat for me and a $300 repair cost me $75. They also helped me out some on a couple of bad COPs after the car exceeded 100,000 miles. Both of these things happened within a week of each other.

jetstang

I appreciate the info on the AWA, worth a shot. I like to think I am a mechanic, so I fixed all the problems myself, no books, just winged it with success. I went to the dealer for help and the resident expert at the dealer really helped me and walked me through it.
I bought the car site unseen from a friend of my brothers after his brother died, estate car. Drove 700 miles to Key Largo in a rental, fished and dove for the weekend, and drove back, great trip, awesome car. Got an 01 LS V8 in early 06 with 58K for $8500, too good of a deal to pass up, AC didn't work at the time, bad coolant control valve, no other problems. Then I bought it, lol... I should of bought an extended waranty after I purchased it, but didn't.

cdnpinhead

Well done with the DIY repairs, especially flying solo (without the books). I got an AWA on my cooling fan replacement a number of years ago after my warranty ran out (by a few months).

I bought the two LS maintenance books from Helm & they cost a fortune. However, they saved me multiples of their price as I evaluated what I'd do myself vs. what I'd farm out to the dealer as my car piled up the miles.

At the moment I'm contemplating replacing all four shocks & farming out some odd engine/system stuff (cooling fan running way too fast for the ambient temp, heater takes forever to warm up) to an independent shop I've come to trust over the years. This is the shop that found an $86 valve on our Pathfinder that was broken when the Nissan dealer wanted to do a $385 "fuel system maintenance" that wouldn't have fixed the problem at all.

My car will hit 125K miles in the next couple of weeks, and I drove it to Alaska & all over the Yukon last July, without a bit of trouble. Yours is likely to last you another 50-150K miles.

Enjoy.

jeyhoe

cd;

Good to hear from ya. I remember your Yukon trip desc. I took my LS to LA last month. Not exactly the wilderness, but just as exciting in its way. I was surprised to get 28 mpg over the 800 mile trip. That's best I've ever seen! I remember you saying that's what you got on your trip.

Knock wood, no troubles at 91K.

nvrsbr

what should i expect from a well maintained and cared for 2001 ls 3.9 v8 with 112k mi. about how much mileage can you get out of these cars until it starts to show signs of "old age" and eventually goes to car heaven. are we looking at 200k easy or what?

need to know because im faced with the opportunity to get one thats been well cared for and reads 112k but for $1000-$1500 less than listed kbb private party value if it should make it to somewhere near 200k i like the car so much that 90k mi of driving left for me might be worth it to me. but if they usually dont see the 200k mi. marker than i probably no longer want one with 112k mi.

maurice6133

I was thinking about buying a used 2000 ls for 7,000 miles. The ls has 74,000 miles on it and is clean. I just have two problems that trouble me with buying it. The problem is when I had the car changing gears to check the transmission, I started to turn the wheel, and when I turned it all the way it was a noise. The noise wasn't cracking or grinding, but it just didn't sound right. When I returned to the chevy deale about the problem he said he had no idea. The problem i thought was the recall for the lower ball joints. The dealer called lincoln and they said the vehicle was serviced for the recall. I was wondering if you think its the power steering, the ball joint or axle? Another question is are there any problems that are consistent on this car, I should now about?

jetstang

Any engine should go at least 200K if it is properly maintained and doesn't have any incidents, overheating, lack of oil. But, the concern is if the car is a quality piece or does everything consistently break and cost you an arm and a leg in repair costs. My 01 LS V8 just turned 70K and I have replaced way too many parts for a car with this many miles on it. I just replaced the rear caliper and clockspring in the last 2 weeks and the car was finally uptight, all fixed. Now, the drivers window regulator broke yesterday???? A cheap plastic guide roller that the cable rides on sheared off the outer edge and pinched the cable, broke!!!! A metal roller would last for forever compared to the cheap plastic gear they used. Found a new complete regulator assembly on ebay with motor for $60 shipped. Must be alot of demand for this part for it to be so cheap and available. This is a $250 repair at the dealer, so if you can't do it yourself, this cars maintenance cost would be extremely high and offset any discount you got on the initial purchase. Here is my list of repairs in last 12K, 58K-70K miles: coolant control valve, COPS, Valve cover gaskets, seized rear caliper, clockspring, fogged headlights, melted 3rd brake light lens, lumbar inop, front end clunks-struts, visor broke, head liner loose, front pillar covers twisting, and now, 1st broken window regulator, more to come I am sure.... :sick:

akirby

The LS uses the same regulator parts as Mercedes. The reasons are complicated but it's not the part itself - it's the weatherseal around the windows (too sticky, puts too much strain on the regulator).

You can get just the regulator for $30 new and you reuse the motor.

leadfoot4

I haven't been here in quite a while, surprised to see some of the same "cast of characters" are still here.My wife and I still have our 2000 LS, and it's still running well, although it has only 55,000 miles on it.

I was pondering this the other day, as I've gone on a "cleaning blitz", clearing out a ton of old paperwork in my files. I've kept all of the dealer repair orders for this car, and was looking through them as I cleaned. I have to say that there were a lot more of them than I remembered. Fortunately, I still enjoy the car, and fortunately the dealer made the service experience as painless as possible, and fortunately the car hasn't left us stranded. However, it hasn't been the most trouble free car I've ever owned.

I just hope that I don't encounter anything major, as I'm now out of warranty.

jeyhoe

Welcome back, leadfoot. Still have my 2001 getrag LS and at 90K it's sill basically like new except I still need to replace the bushings on the front swaybar. If I could afford to replace it, I might think about it. But as it is, there's nothing that comes close for any reasonable cost. Hope it keeps on truckin as the only money I've spent on it for maintenance is brakes once and tires twice.

leadfoot4

Just looking at my member information...I'm not sure about the total number of posts being correct, but the date certainly isn't correct. I joined this forum about 14 months earlier than that, about the time I started researching the LS, which I bought in May of 2000.

cdnpinhead

Yeah, me too. Everyone who was posting on Edmunds on April 13 got that join date, regardless of reality.

brucelinc

It looks like all of us early birds have the same member start date, although many were earlier. Yes, I stumbled on to this site much sooner than April of 2001. I have one of the earliest LSs - 4/99 build. It used to be quite a daily routine of reading all of the new posts.

leadfoot4

Yeah, remember those giddy days??? There would be 70-80 posts a day!! It would take at LEAST one cup of tea to make it through all of them......

brucelinc

And some of the personalities! Remember our friend from Omaha? I wonder how many of those "regulars" from back then still have their LSs.

jeyhoe

Yeah, I remember as well.

Serious question: anyone hazard a guess as to why the LS generated such interest yet the mks, mkz, mkx etc have not?

brucelinc

I will throw out a few reasons:

The Lincoln brand was generally viewed in a more favorable light by the public and by the press in those days. They were outselling Cadillac. The LS got great press from both the enthusiast and consumer mags. The LS was the first credible attempt to compete with the Europeans at their own game - sport/luxury. Some Lincoln management participated in our discussions. The LS was not a badge engineered Ford. The LS was extremely competitive in it's market segment.

None of the above apply to the offerings today.

akirby

A lot of the old regulars are still on that "other" site and a lot still post here. I'm still in both places even though I traded my LS in 2 years ago on a Fusion. It's nice to be able to discuss automotive things with rational people without the trolls that seem to pop up here from time to time.

The LS was the first credible domestic sports sedan and there were big plans for the future - European sales, a 330i competitor, 2 door coupe, etc. Then the Firestone fiasco destroyed the budget, management couldn't figure out what to do with Lincoln and they just sort of drifted along on a life raft until a couple of years ago. Based on the new management and the new vehicles and concepts I think they'll get back to the former glory of the LS and far surpass it. But it won't happen overnight.

leadfoot4

I'll agree with all of that plus add that the LS was a rear driver. Although it's just my $0.02 worth, FWDs don't appeal to me. Yes, I live in the northeast, and at times, a FWDer can be beneficial in deep snow, but the other 9 months of the year, a RWD is a better balanced, better handling car. The LS was as close to 50/50 weight distribution as any V-8 front engined sedan, so its handling is superb.

And, if it came down to it, and we get a serious blizzard, the LS stays home. My wife, the primary driver, is a school teacher, and the schools would probably be closed. Therefore, that last little bit of extra snow traction a FWD might provide would become a non-issue. I have a 4x4 for the winter.

The other cars that Lincoln markets now are just FWD people movers, although I understand the MKX, or whatever they call it now, can be had as an AWDer.

jeyhoe

"The other cars that Lincoln markets now are just FWD people movers, although I understand the MKX, or whatever they call it now, can be had as an AWDer"

Actually, they all (mk s, x, z) can be had with AWD. While that's nice, and I certainly would not buy something like the X without it, it's still not RWD.

I agree with all the comments answering my question. I cant even recall how I stumbled upon this site and discussion about 7 yers ago. But a lot of the excitement here contributed to my purchasing a 2001 LS. I loved that the VP of marketing and a couple of engineers were here to answer questions. And then they hosted several LS events. It was great.

akirby - yeah, I dislike those trolls too ... :shades: I should rejoin the other site, but I'm too cheap to pay my way in anymore.

brucelinc

I share your optimism about the future. I think the MKS is a great step forward and the RWD platform is not that far away.

One other very positive thing: Ford quality has gone waaaay up in the past few years. The model launches have been nearly flawless. Let's face it - some of the early LSs had some teething problems and it turned off some owners. The fit and finish was generally good but the quality of interior materials could have been better. The TSBs for transmission shift quality didn't bother me but could have been a nuisance for some. Other things like window regulators, moisture in the headlamps, failed seat elements, etc. were detrimental to the ownership experience.

I am expecting the MKS to be vastly superior to the LS in terms of overall quality.

brucelinc

Like Leadfoot, I prefer RWD. However, FWD or even AWD is not an absolute deal breaker for me if the rest of the car suits my needs. I have never had any problem getting around Minneapolis with RWD. Like Leadfoot, though, I do park the LS and drive my 4WD Ranger when the snow is severe.

Lots of people disagree with me on this but I consider AWD on a FWD car to just be a crutch. The only reason I would consider it would be if the power is so great that the FWD would be overwhelmed by traction loss or understeer. RWD can handle a lot more power without the need for additional complexity and weight of AWD.

cdnpinhead

nearly 126K miles on the LS I took delivery of in May of '00 and was posting a few months before that.

I left an anniversary message in the general LS board most years about this time, reprising the current situation vs. the "good ol' days." Not this year -- there's just no point. It's clear that most of the people making fresh posts bought the car for a song and are looking for the easy way out when something goes wrong. The LS demographic has finally shifted the way Lincoln wanted it to, but I don't think they wanted the vehicle (sorry) to be cheap used cars.

I have a dimmer view of FoMoCo & Lincoln than almost anyone, yet I drive one, while several of the fanpeople don't.

Go figure.

leadfoot4

"I have a dimmer view of FoMoCo & lincoln than almost anyone, yet I drive one, while several of the fanpeople don't."

Not necessarily true..... I've lived in the Rochester,NY area since January of 1958. My father was transferred to this area by his employer, and the local GM plants were among the companies he sold equipment to. At the time we came here, we had a 1955 Ford Country Squire station wagon. The GM people at Rochester Products and Delco gave him some grief about owning a Ford, so shortly thereafter, we became a GM family. I continued that tradition until 2000, when my wife and I bought the LS.

However, I don't necessarily think that I'll purchase another Ford. As I mentioned, I'm a strong RWDer, and there's nothing in the Ford line that at this time. Actually, GM has nothing at this time either, as the Cadillac CTS' styling just doesn't appeal to us, no matter how good the reviews of the car are. Personally, I think the upcoming Pontiac G8 has promise, but my wife doesn't care for what's been shown so far.

Fortunately, I think the LS still has a little life left, but having been through 7 road salt filled winters is what concerns me the most. The car has low mileage and is still running well. But as we all know, corrosion will get at the dozens of electrical connections that today's cars have, and before you know it, the car is getting all sorts of weird, due to bad electronics. Then you have to decide whether to keep putting money in a car that's depreciating like a rock in the ocean, or bite the bullet and get something new.