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2008 Volvo XC70/V70



  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    Canada doesn't have lemon laws. If this car continues to be trouble I will get rid of it. I am wearing the starter out because I have to start the engine twice each time I use the car to get the steering to work.

    Given the competition in the auto industry I think Volvo would be wise to hang on to each and every customer.
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    If I understand you correctly, each and every time you start the car, the PS is inactive unless you start it, shut it off and then restart it?

    And the dealer has not been able to correct this?

    That would be a completely unacceptable condition to me, and I think I am reasonable and have no axe to grind about Volvo. Does the 2008 XC70 have electric PS?

    Suppose you switch the key to the run position, pause momentarily (try different delay times) and then switch to the start position. Is the PS active? That is I am suggesting testing whether a brief time delay would make a difference.

    The reason I suggest this is that with my 04 V70, if I use the key to unlock the driver door, and then quickly open the door, then the alarm begins sounding. But if I pause before opening the door then the alarm isn't triggered. So it may be that there are some timing delays in inactivating, or in the case of the PS, activating some systems. If this were the case it would not be ideal, but it would be much better than having to use the starter twice.
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    The 08 model does not have the same ignition type as the outgoing model. It has a key fob and a push button start like a beemer. Yes you understood me correctly. I sometimes have to start it three time before the steering is corrected. The local dealership said that they have had one other key in for the same problem. Apparently that car's owner drove more than a 100 miles with the stiff steering so he could show them the problem.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Push button start - now there's an "advance" nobody asked for. Let me guess, it makes the new Volvo driver feel like Stefan Johansson for a moment.
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    I'd like to push that button you know where.... still waiting to hear back from Volvo. If the price of gas continues to climb I'll trade it for a Smart Car. A friend of mine had one for three years and put 150k kms on it. The motor burnt out at that point. For 20k that's a pretty good return. All he did with it was change the oil and put fuel in it.

    It is that or put solar panels on the XC70. I might be on to something here. ;)
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    UPDATE: Steering repaired and they were looked at the creaking coming from the rear hatch. Dealer kept the vehicle for a week and I was given a rental. Volvo Canada had requested that I give them the opportunity to repair and reassess the XC70. For all of it I am not confident with the vehicle and as someone who travels a fair amount need reliability. As the Volvo Canada representative said "this may be a Monday vehicle". If so I will ask that they take it back.

    On another note, while at the dealership today another gentleman was picking up his new XC70 that had 20 KMs on the odometer. He hadn't left the parking lot when he returned complaining about noise.

    Are these vehicles inspected at all before being sold to the comstomer? :confuse:
  • I've posted on other Edmunds Forums about the conundrum we have with my wife's 01 XC. When everything is right it is a stylish, fantastic all weather (we run up to Montreal regularly in it) highway tourer with very comfortable seating, lots of room, etc. But there were lots of problems with it and a not very attentive local dealer. Now at 95,000 somewhat eventful miles, we have started looking at the new '08s. Then we yawn. More money, more introductory first year problems, no big advances in fuel mileage, less luggage area (they expanded the second seat area), etc.

    Moreover, neither the car nor the dealerships are a luxuy experience. If you want that, you should buy an Audi Avant, BMW 5 Series or an E Series Wagon. However, you will wind up spending upwards of 20K more. But for what we want an AWD wagon for, the XC70 is ideal. However, after a lot of research, I think that the best deal by far is a gently used '06/'07 old style XC70.

    I'd welcome any comments especially if you think I am off base in my assessment.
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    Advantages of the new XC70:

    (1) engine: new naturally aspirated 3.2L inline-6; 235 hp and 236 lb-ft torque with no turbo hassles. My wife's 2007 XC90 3.2 FWD gets 24 - 26 mpg hwy. Driven carefully an XC70 3.2 might get 27 mpgUS hwy (32 mpgUK or 8.7 L/100km).

    (2) 6-spd auto stick tranny made by Aisin in Japan

    (3) turning radius much shorter than the old version -- 37.7 ft compared to: 39 ft? 40 ft?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,099
    not sure what "turbo hassles" are, but someone posted their thoughts in another thread at how the new one feels more sluggish than their 1 year older 2.5T. My response was that, with 400 more lbs and the same torque (yet peaking at a higher RPM), I'm not surprised. And the EPA rates it 1mpg worse. So, personally, I don't see the advantage.

    And as far as what YOU may get in mileage, that does not mean everyone would. We can't get anywhere near the mileage in our XC90 that other folks report. Even with the cruise set at 45mph on flat ground, we JUST approach what others in other parts of the country claim they get at a steady 70mph. One person speculates this is due to the additives used in NJ gas. I would also add that your climate, elevation, asphalt material, etc, etc, change results, too.

    Anyway, my point is, yes, most likely a 4k lb XC70 is going to outmileage a 4700lb XC90 with the same drivetrain. However, since the EPA found that the 3.2 doesn't do quite as well as the 2.5T, I'd say that would hold true for owners, too. ALTHOUGH, if Volvo hadn't added 400lbs to the new model... who knows?

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    Totally agree with you qbrozen. Although I like the looks of the new XC, I certainly feel that Volvo did little to make it a better car than the older model. I think a six speed inline five turbo would have been fine for this car. Better yet, why not a twin turbo? While keeping comfort in mind, Volvo could certainly have made this vehicle more sporting than it is and certainly more of a driver's car.

    I doubt anyone will get 27 mpg from this car unless it is being towed. ;)
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    The turbocharger is a mechanical device which can fail, or the controls can fail. Don't get me wrong, I think a small engine with a turbocharger can be a useful route to relatively high efficiency under light accelerator pressure, and relatively high output under heavy accelerator pessure. So the 5-cyl light pressure turbo is EPA rated as slightly more efficient than the 3.2L naturally aspirated I-6.

    But a inline 5-cyl engine is not as well balanced as an inline 6-cyl and Volvo does not use balance shafts in its I5-cyl engine as it did in its I4-cyl engines. The result is more vibration at idle with the 5-cyl compared to the silky smooth 3.2L inline 6-cyl. The inline 6-cyl is the gold standard for a relatively efficient smooth running engine. The I-6 configuration is common in Mercedes and BMW performance cars. Of course these are RWD. Volvo designed their I-6 (the short inline six or si6) to be short enought to fit transversely for FWD.
  • Guys, thanks for alll the feedback. Can I summarize? The new XC costs more, burns more gas, is not any faster, no more powerful, and holds less.

    On the other hand the new engine has a six speed Japanese transmission (gee, thats a resounding vote for Volvo's in-house engineering), doesn't have a turbo, although Volvo turbos are not known for early failure, and if you run Mobil1 as you should anyway this will dissapate the added heat, and has a 1 foort shorter (hardly "much shorter") turning radius!

    The decision seems pretty clear to me.

    Since I have to be missing something, would someone more knowledgeable please enlighten me? Maybe the sterio is a vast improvement? The ride quality? They are closing the gap with the Germans and now have a heated steering wheel with paddle shifters? Come on, help me out. Afterall, you can pay almost the same price for a Porsche Cayenne and have more fun as you haul your brood to GrandMa's house.
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    ". . . after a lot of research, I think that the best deal by far is a gently used '06/'07 old style XC70."

    In the past you would almost always come out ahead buying a used car. However, the car mfgrs are hurting and making great deals on vehicles in dealer stock.

    Your best value would be to hold onto your 01 XC70, unless you know it's not reliable, or know that it will soon cost a lot in maintenance or repairs. How do you determine if a vehicle has been 'gently used'.

    Some people make a big deal about how the 2.5L turbo makes high torque at lower rpms. A modern computer controlled turbo-charged engine can do this by cramming a lot of air and fuel into the cylinder even at low rpm, like 2000 rpm or even less. This of course increases the forces on the engine parts. What's wrong with having to wind out the engine to 4000+ rpm to get the highest torque? How often do you use the highest torque anyway?

    The 3.2L si6 has variable valve timing and variable lift height. Only time will tell whether the si6 will turn out to be low maintenance.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,099
    How often do you use the highest torque anyway?

    Every time I put my foot to the floor and hit the peak RPMs. Which, in the volvo, is barely off idle. So I'd say VERY often.

    What's wrong with having to wind out the engine to 4000+ rpm to get the highest torque?

    Well, 2 things. 1 is that it takes longer to get there. 2 is that higher RPMs uses more fuel. Also, when peak torque is too high, it typically makes for a poor power curve. For instance, your torque peaks at 4k and HP peaks at 5500rpms. That gives you a "peakier" power curve than a vehicle with, say, 1800/5k, respectively. Not to say this is a hard and fast rule. I mean, there are some that might have 90% of torque off idle and just climb very slowly to their peak at 4k, for instance.

    To answer your other point. Yes, the I6 is inherently smoother. No argument there. But the I5 certainly isn't rough enough to make a difference to me. Can I feel it through the steering wheel at a stoplight if I close my eyes and focus? yeah. Does it bother me? nope. But that's personal preference. If someone is so focused on a smooth idle they want the I6, I'm not going to argue. That's their preference.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    The fix for a less than smooth idling engine is to use soft engine mounts which don't last as long as stiffer ones. I think Volvo does that on its 5-cyl engines. These are my suppositions based on the fact that both on our '96 850 wagon and '04 V70 the upper 'twist control' mount, on top, at the firewall, had to be replaced after 4 years of easy use. These are cheap and easy to replace, but this indicates that steps had to be taken to control vibration.

    I went with aftermarket polyurethane inserts as replacements. The poly mount in the '96 worked great, but the one I got for the '04 V70 (and could install myself) has not been satisfactory. There is now too much vibration in the passenger compartment and especially in the steering wheel; I live with it and grumble. When the lower front twist control mount is ready for replacement I may just get OE. But then maybe a stiffer lower one will cancel out the stiff upper one?

    But I wonder if the main engine mounts on the bottom have a shorter lifetime than desirable. Are they spec'ed on the soft side to isolate vibration? These "hydraulic mounts" will cost a bundle to replace, and the job is beyond my skills. One independent Volvo shop told me that these mounts do collapse over time and eventually the spacing between the engine and the body structural members decreases to an unacceptable amount. They said that those on my '04 V70 were OK though.

    It's possible that the Volvo models powered by the si6 will have more durable engine mounts.

    With an automatic tranny the much ballyhooed flat engine torque curve doesn't produce any significant advange to the driver. With an automatic you just stomp on the accelerator to suddenly accelerate. With a manual tranny there is an advantage to the flat torque curve made possible by forced induction (turbo or supercharging).

    If you are in a relatively high gear and suddenly need to accelerate, having engine torque available at low rpms allows the driver to forego downshifting if there's not enough time.
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    The problem with my 08 XC70 is that I have to put my foot into it to get the get up and go out of the car. To tell you the truth I did try to purchase a new 07 model but the dealer was set on gouging too much out of me for it.

    My 02 XC70 did not have a vibration problem. Ergonomically I find it to better "inside" than the 08 model. Some of you may notice the inside layout of the new XC60. It is interesting that Volvo has turned the console slightly towards the driver, which imo is a much more attractive design, not to mention easier to use.

    It is great to see all the comments regardless of your opinion.

    No word from Volvo yet regarding the problems with my car. I think they sprayed the rear hatch with lubricant to keep it from squeaking so much.

  • Jim,

    We bought a bunch of inserts and even a cross engine bay support bracket from IPD and installed them with no noticeable effect. We however didn't test them scientifically and don't tow with it. As people who over-maintain vehicles, we do think we did the right thing for the '01 XC70 and the upgrades weren't a lot of money.

    Regarding maintenance. I always go the Mobil1, more frequent oil change, frequent car detail, impeccable maintenance route. I figure that if we get just one more year out of a vehicle we will have $aved a bundle on depreciation and sales tax. Food for thought: we bought a new 1987 Ford XLT Supercab with every option possible, 22 years ago. It has been a pleasure to drive ever since on weekends. We have gotten every dime out of the 18K we paid for it. Had we bought new stripper pickups without AC. power locks, windows, cloth seats, etc. we would have dumped them after 3 or so years and paid perhaps 70K over the last 22 years.
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    There may be something else causing the vibration in my 04 V70. But when I put the insert in the upper twist control mount, I tightened it up and noticed more vibration right away. Then I loosened the nut/bolt in the insert and as I recall the vibration disappeared, but I later retightened the nut because I thought it was supposed to be tight and just accepted the vibration. An independent Volvo shop told me the nut/bolt was supposed to be tight. The OE was tight. It has been over a year since then and I have not reviewed the situation.

    Maybe I am exaggerating the amount of vibration. Some reviews of some of these aftermarket poly inserts reported vibration with the auto tranny in drive at idle and, well, the power of suggestion. . . In the 04 V70 the upper twist control mount ultimately connects to the strut tower bar which is itself atached through rubber bushings. I don't see how vibration could be transmitted through all this. But from its construction I recall that the OE rubber mount was asymmetric -- stiffer in one direction and softer at 90 deg. The poly mounts are radially symmetric.

    I do know that there is a very considerable difference in steering wheel engine vibration between my '04 V70 and my wife's '07 XC90 3.2 inline 6.
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    Took a 2009 XC70 T6 with 4C chassis out for a test. The T6 is imo a much better feeling car. There is competent output from the turbo charged motor and the 4C enhances the driver/road feel. Not only that, but I didn't hear the constant creaking I hear in my 08 model.

    Does anyone know if dealerships (including Volvo) sell repaired crash tested or damaged vehicles as new? If so how do I find out if my car was damaged prior to delivery?

    As for my situation with Volvo, as expected they want to do the very least and will not admit failure of the car.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Have you looked into the CAMVAP (Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Process) program? It is a mediation/arbitration process administered by the provincial BBB. It costs you nothing other than your time, but it can be an effective way to deal with the manufacturer if you feel that you're stuck with a lemon and the manufacturer is stone-walling you. I used it some years back against Honda, and the arbitrator ruled in my favour and Honda was forced to buy back my Prelude at full price.
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    I read about it. I must say though that I am thoroughly disappointed with Volvo as this is my third Volvo car. In today's marketplace I think they should take every opportunity to achieve positive feedback.
  • bsybsy Posts: 4
    Looking into purchasing a 2008 V70 used as a loaner, how does one properly determined a fair purchase value for such cars. There are a couple of cars in the dealership that have different mileage on them (2,000 to 6,000 miles). Typically, how much of a discount from invoice should one expect? Or should invoice be the starting point at all for determining a fair purchase value? Thanks in advance for any advice.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,099
    For me, it is a used car, period. I don't care if it was never titled. So I'd find out, if possible, what its worth as a trade-in and work up from there.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    Another problem.

    Temps have cooled off and early morning frost has become the norm. Went outside on Wednesday, opened the drivers side rear door, placed my briefcase in and then shut the door. Upon getting in the car and starting it up I noticed that the rear door open indicator was on. I got out and opened and closed the door again. No luck, the light stayed on. Finally got the car into service today and the door lock module is faulty.

    Also the rear hatch foam was replaced in an effort to reduce the noise coming from the tailgate. No luck there either. I think this is the car that Jack built.

    Run people run.
  • My wife has an '07 XC70 which I drive occasionally. While we were on a recent trip we were rented a car which to our suprise was an '08 XC70. Based on that rental there is no way I would change her '07 for an '08. The 3.2 on the new model is MUCH louder when you step on the gas and MUCH less powerful at lower speeds. I think the noise on acceleration is the worse of the two. Hopefully for Volvo the '09 turbo solves both those problems.
    Other items of I noted between the two years:
    Where the "08 is better in my opinion:
    1. Quieter and less wind noise. (Unless you are passing a car and step on the gas)
    2. The interior is classier.
    Items I can't believe Volvo has done or not done:

    1.One of the reasons I bought the Volvo was for safety reasons. One of the options I insisted on my wife's '07 was the Xenon headlamps. ( I think it listed for less than $800 and came with the ABL feature, which I have on my car too, but could do without). However I view being able to see well at night an important safety issue and the Xenon lights improve that situation.
    Now it appears as though you have to buy a $2000+ package to get Xenon. That is crazy.
    2. On both the '07 and '08 I am irritated that the sun visor doesn't move down the metal rod to block the sun when you move it to the driver's door.
    3. Although not a safety issue, an annoyance - the headlamp lighting system is really not totally automatic. Unless you want to have the headlamps on all the time, you have to manually turn the switch at night to the on position if you want to use the high beams.
    4. I did not care for the new key, it seems as though it is something that will eventually break and in the interim is a pain,

    Although the above are complaints, I really like my wife's car for many reasons.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    You mean the headlights are really just auto-off headlights, that turn on and off with the ignition?
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    I personally find the 3.2 L inline six in my 2007 plenty powerful. When it is said that it is less powerful at lower output than the V8 or other powerplants, I can only assume that this means that to develop a lot of power from the 3.2, you have to depress the accelerator more, and go to higher rpm. So I would say that the accelerator program in the 3.2 is what it is under the assumption that normally the driver wants to be moderate in acceleration (to achieve better fuel economy and put less wear on the drivetrain). To hotrod the 3.2 just lay into the accelerator (and accept a much lower mpg)! The 3.2 develops 235 hp maximum, which I hardly ever want it to develop. I don't mind the engine sound when I do occassionally wind it out to 4500 rpm in a challenging freeway entrance.

    This weekend I was a passenger in a Lexus LX470? SUV with a V8 that the 25-year-old driver was driving "agressively" on freeways. It was smooth and powerful and I think it gets lower mpg than my XC90 3.2. Costs a lot more too. I looked at the tach and it seemed that at the same vehicle speed the rpm was lower in the Lexus than in my XC90 3.2 (which cost $33k brand new). I can live with that.

    Concerning the light swich, the only difference I find in the two positions with the headlights on is that in the "nightime" position the brights can be switched on. In the other position the brights can only be on as long as the stalk is held pulled toward the steering wheel. In my 1996 850 I think the daytime headlamps were at reduced power (which I liked), but in the 2007 XC90 I think they are at full power in both position I and III. It might be possible for the dealer to deactivate the headlights on in position I. In places where there is no daytime running light requirement some drivers would not want them, even if they were a safety advantage. Daytime running (head) lights (at full power) must cause much more rapid headlamp failure.
  • I just got whacked in the head by my tailgate. It won't stay open. The tailgate goes up and then it quickly slams shut. I can't even hold it open. Is this what happened to your tailgate?
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    This happened a couple of years back on my 2004 V70. The gas cartridges which hold up the tailgate failed. In my case the dealer replaced them at no charge under the overall warranty (3 yr, 36 kmi?). These are easy to replace in most cars, but more of a problem with the V70 because they are hidden under plastic trim. Removing the plastic trim without breaking it requires experience and skill. In the XC90 the cartridges are exposed.

    Get thee to the dealer!
  • nibsnibs Posts: 65
    Hi Carmom, sorry I didn't get back to you. It has been a while since I've been here. No my problem was with the auto tailgate motor failure. Btw the tailgate still has problems. Since my last report I have been back to the service center several times.

    I have submitted a claim through CAMVAP (Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Process) and hope it proves to be a successful process. I'm not trusting of anything or anyone right now.

    The tailgate seems to break the seal when cornering or going over cracks in the pavement. I'm fed up with it and hope the arbitration will see this a a reliability issue. Apparently my XC70 is the only one with problems.
This discussion has been closed.