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2009/2010 Honda Fit



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    What tells you the prices in the article don't include destination charge? If not, and if they are accurate, they would be a HUGE increase over the 2008 prices (not even considering the new options i.e. NAV and VSA).
  • mappomappo Posts: 12
    The plot thickens - the page has now been taken down! My guess is that the info is legitimate, but that they accidentally posted the review earlier than they were allowed to under their NDA with Honda. Which is rather disappointing, as both the MSRP and MPG numbers were worse than I was hoping to see.
  • On the right side of the article is info on engine, mileage (about same as current Fit) and pricing of the "tested" sport Fit model and it has base price plus destination. Compare it w/ the prices listed in the article, it seems that the article prices do not include destination charge - but I am not absolutely sure as I don't remember the real figures.

    Just to confirm that, I went back to the article - was there about half an hour ago and suddenly disappeared. The article posting date is 8/5, the same date that Fitfreaks posted the new year model change list. Maybe it IS a fake article and the publisher decides to take it down, or it's real and Honda didn't want it to publish any info right now so they have it taken down, or the web server is temporarily down.

    Too bad I didn't write down the prices before the article was taken down, but the base model it said starts almost 16000 for manual (800 more for auto). Again I am not absolutely sure of the figure so unless the article is back online we will not know.
  • :P mappo: Hah, you beat me by 2 seconds!
  • mappomappo Posts: 12
    Assuming it's not a fake (I don't think it is, this is a real newspaper after all) the page will be back up when the official NDA expiration occurs and everyone else posts their reviews too. Probably a day or two away.

    The price increase is very disappointing, but in hindsight not surprising given the heightened demand for smaller cars and the recent slide in the value of the dollar vs. the yen. The mileage numbers are both disappointing and surprising though. I thought the new engine was supposed to get significantly better mileage than the '08 Fit, yet that article listed the same specs as '08.

    Given this price and mileage info, I'm going to take a closer look at the 5-door Yaris hatchback that Toyota is supposedly bringing out for 09...
  • Ok, someone else posted the same article on the Fitfreak site so I just copied and pasted the contents here:

    Auto review: 2009 Honda Fit Sport

    Special to the Journal Sentinel

    Posted: Aug. 5, 2008

    The automobile business is all about predicting the future.
    With development time for a new model of four or five years, decisions are made on the best information available at the time. Still, it can be a crap shoot.

    When Honda introduced its entry-level Fit in 2006, big pickup trucks and truck-based sport utility vehicles were riding high. The Fit was viewed as a mildly interesting vehicle for a small niche of buyers.

    Despite that, in typical Honda fashion, the little car--it already had developed a reputation in foreign markets as the Honda Jazz--had practical appeal beyond its small size: outstanding fuel economy, good handling and an interior that could be configured in a variety of ways for people and cargo. More than one evaluator called it "the Swiss Army knife of automobiles."

    With escalating fuel prices, the Fit's niche ballooned and Honda's decision to sell it in the United States looked prescient. Fits rolled off dealers' lots as soon as they rolled in.

    Never one to rest on its laurels, Honda sends a new, slightly larger and more expensive, more powerful and refined Fit for 2009. Though marketed as an entry-level subcompact, the new Fit has the interior volume of a compact car, and is not far from mid-size in terms of its interior accommodations.

    Newly styled, with a racier appearance and a more complicated rear end, the Fit is five inches longer than the original. It weighs about 120 pounds more, but does not gain much in interior space--just one cubic foot.

    One feature--the ability to flop the passenger-side seats to make a bed--is gone because surveys showed owners weren't using it. Nevertheless, the Swiss Army knife analogy continues. The back seats can be easily flipped and flopped into a variety of configurations to carry tall objects as well as long ones.

    The back seat gets a bit more knee and hip room, and the seatbacks recline to provide more comfortable seating. There's enough room in the outboard positions to keep adults from complaining unduly on longer trips, though the center-rear position is cramped and should be reserved for occasional use.

    Up front, the bucket seats, covered in a sturdy cloth, are big and comfortable, with good thigh support. The steering wheel tilts and telescopes, which makes it easy for people of different sizes to find a comfortable driving position.

    Safety equipment includes side air bags and side-curtain air bags, antilock brakes, electronic brake distribution and tire-pressure monitoring. But it does not include traction control, which Honda calls VSA, or vehicle stability assist.

    VSA is available, but only if you order the satellite navigation system, an unusual option in this class of car. The combination, available only on the Fit Sport, costs an additional $1,850.

    Air conditioning is standard, as are power windows, mirrors and door locks, and a stereo system with CD changer, MP3 capability and an audio device input jack. Unfortunately, XM satellite radio is not available. If you want it, you'll have to buy an aftermarket unit. One odd shortcoming is the sun visors. They're small and don't adequately block the sun from the side. Honda solves this problem on other models by simply enabling the visors to slide on their support rods, but not on the Fit's.
    There are three Fit models: the base car, with a five-speed manual gearbox, starts at $15,220. It has steel wheels with wheel covers and does not have cruise control or map lights. The five-speed automatic transmission costs an additional $800, but does not have the steering-wheel mounted paddle shifters that come with the automatic on the Fit Sport model.

    The Fit Sport, which Honda expects will account for about seven of 10 Fit sales, starts at $16,730 with the stick shift. The automatic transmission, with the manual-shift mode and the paddle shifters, is $850 extra.
    If you want the VSA and the navigation system, the sticker price is $18,580. Check the box for the automatic transmission and the suggested delivered price comes to $19,430. You can't spend any more unless you order dealer-installed accessories.

    On the road, the Fit exhibits a quiet, supple, compliant ride and precise handling. It's no sports sedan but it can carve corners with a lot of more expensive machinery. Acceleration is adequate, accompanied by some engine roar at high engine revolutions.

    The five-speed manual, in typical Honda fashion, shifts effortlessly, and the Sport model's automatic transmission paddle shifters provide an extra driving dimension, especially to hold a gear on twisting mountain roads.
    Honda expects to sell about 85,000 Fits annually. If the current trend toward small cars continues, it appears to have a solid future.

    "At Honda, we always recognize times like this as an opportunity for growth," says Dan Bonawitz, the vice president for corporate planning and logistics. "We generally grow two to three percent in both up and down markets. Our business strategy is more like the tortoise than the hare."
    So far at least, that tactic seems to work better than consulting futurists or soothsayers.

    Side bar content:

    Model: 2009 Honda Fit Sport four-door hatchback.
    Engine: 1.5-liter four-cylinder, 117 horsepower.
    Transmission: Five-speed automatic with manual-shift mode.
    Overall length: 13 feet 6 inches.
    EPA passenger/cargo volume: 91/21 cubic feet.
    Weight: 2,604 pounds.
    EPA city/highway fuel consumption: 27/33 miles per gallon.
    Base price, including destination charge: $17,580.
    Base dealer cost: $16,983.
    Price as tested: $17,580.
  • mappomappo Posts: 12
    Here are the MSRPs, including delivery charge, summarized from the article. About a $1,500 increase from '08!
    (edited from my original post to correct for my stupidity)

    Base Fit Manual - $15,220
    Base Fit Auto - $16,020
    Sport Fit Manual - $16,730
    Sport Fit Auto - $17,580

    VSA+Nav adds $1,850, available only on Fit Sport.
  • wgewge Posts: 16
    So, the '09 base manual will have an MSRP including the destination fee ($670) of $15,890. I expected a pretty big increase over the '08 which is why I bought the '08 for $14,585 which includes the destination charge, and which then was $635. The net savings was $1,305 going with the '08. It is interesting that there is no change in mileage estimates. I'm glad I got the '08, which is a more attractive package, in my opinion, in many respects.
  • rorjorrorjor Posts: 1
    Wow!! , 9.1 % more in the base model. (13.950 to 15.220); have the same engine??
  • I think this article is real. I just googled this author and he's a serious auto journalist:

    click here for youtube video interviewing Frank Aukofer.

    I think he wrote the article on the 5th, but didn't link it to the home page, so nobody would find the article, but then since it's on the server google found it and indexed it. When I found the article last night via google, it was only indexed a few hours ago. Once we start to discuss this article the info gets to the author (or maybe he regularly reads our posts too and may even be one of the poster - who knows) it was immediately taken down. Knowing that the author is a legit journalist w/ a long history of auto reporting made me believe that the article is genuine. Now we can all sit back and cry about the price hike! :cry:

    Oh, the author mentioned that the viser is too small to block the sun on the side. Does anyone know if there's any aftermarket accessories that we can use to remedy that (not necessarily for the Fit; if it's designed for universal use it's ok too)?
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    >the '08, which is a more attractive package, in my opinion, in many respects.

    I concur. The very short test I made did not make a strong impression on me. There is no justification for such a price increase. If there is really a difference in road noise insulation, this would be the most worthy difference. other differences are down to some detail.

    People looking for a budget car would rather make a good deal on a 08.

    I think however the price increase has little to do with the model change and much more with the weak USD. in 3 years, the USD has dropped from over 8 RMB to less than 6.7 RMB , whereas steel and other raw materials have increased. Cars with small margins are the most likely to get impacted. This is a golden opportunity for made-in-US/USD-zone cars
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    There is no justification for such a price increase.

    Sure there is. The justification is that Honda has no trouble selling all the Fits they can ship here, so why not raise the price and see what the market will bear? :P
  • That's disappointing news. I agree there is no ethical justification (aside from corporate greed to exploit the existing hunger for the FIT) for such a price increase--especially if the dealers won't negotiate and go a little lower.

    Is it true they are insisting on MSRP or even higher, like they do with the Prius frenzy? If so, both Dealers and Honda corp. will make windfall profits from this.

    When I was looking at Prius, I found a couple of ethical dealers who promised no-more than MSRP and stood behind that--so if you are going to go for one, make sure you look for this and get that in writing with your deposit/ allocation fee/ wait list fee.

    I'm sure it's a great little Hatchback though, so I understand the anguish in deciding if it's worth it.

    Personally, I would wait it out 'till things calm down more if you aren't desperate for the FIT right now....
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Are you saying it is unethical for a company to try to get top dollar for its products? I agree it is unethical if there is no alternative to the product--e.g., if a company is the only supplier of fresh water in a town hit by a flood and they start charging $25 a gallon for it. But there are many alternatives to the Fit. If people don't like the price, they can go elsewhere. And if enough of them do that, the price of the Fit will come down.
  • mappomappo Posts: 12
    I misspoke in my post yesterday - prices are only up about $600-$800 depending on trim level. That's not really so much considering the '09 is an all new car that's bigger, quieter, sturdier, has a more powerful engine and is better handling than the '08.
  • schteveschteve Posts: 3
    I must agree. I'm as Socialist as the next guy (okay, more Socialist than the next guy) but we live in a Capitalist Free Market economy. Can't say people are "unethical" because they're playing by the rules.
  • I don't call overinflated pricing and refusing to negotiate and even charging over MSRP "playing by the rules".

    But we could go on and on about this. And I'm not going to, cause it comes down to your personal values and ethics. Just because we live in a Capitalist society, doesn't mean we each have our limits as to what we believe to be reasonable.

    Cappo said it's not as bad as originally thought--so maybe the prices are justified in this case for the new upgrades.

    Choices? Eh..naw...they're really not that hot in terms of an affordable (under $20,000) safe, reliable low MPG hatchback with very good scores in key areas.

    I know for me, I will never buy a car at or over MSRP. That's just insane.
  • In fact, I don't know if there are ANY choices out there that match up to the Fit's features....Are there?

    (Sorry for the mispelling, Mappo--I couldn't see your user name as I was posting).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    There's several good alternatives for MY 2009: Yaris (3-door and 5-door), Matrix, Rio5, Spectra5, Vibe, Versa, and Elantra Touring for starters. Going down the FE scale just a bit, Mazda3s, Impreza, Rabbit, Caliber, and SX4. And for those who really want a low-bucks 5-door, there's the Aveo. Before I would spend nearly $20k on a Fit, I'd take a close, close look at several of these vehicles, plus some really nice sedans that can be had for well under $20k (since I could live with a sedan or hatch for my next car).

    Many alternatives out there. At least one even has an "H" on the front and back, just like the Fit. ;)
  • Wow--you really clearly have spent a lot of time researching cars!

    Thanks for saving me so much time--my days and life are far to jammed to keep up with all the details you keep sharing so generously.

    Although of course 'good alternatives" does not always add up to "as good as" (or maybe I'm just being skeptical ;) )

    So if you don't mind indulging me, can you clue me (us) in on how each of the cars you mentioned match up to the Fit in terms of:

    *gas mileage
    *overall quality and reliability

    (These four are my biggest priorities).

    More to the point:
    Would you say any of the cars you mentioned are as equally good (or even better) in ALL four areas? If so, would you care to name them?

    Also, which hatchback are you referring to that is Honda other than the Fit?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts--they are very helpful!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    All that would be way off topic here. But maybe a good thread for the "Which Hatchback?" discussion--if you want to move it there.

    But I think I see where you are going with this. Consider, though, that if in fact the Fit is unmatched in car-dom, then Honda is justified in charging just about anything they want for it. Honda only needs to price it in line with the competition if it actually has competition. I get the feeling that you don't think the Fit has any real competition. Thus I'm puzzled about your opinion on the price increase on the 2009 Fit.

    P.S. I said "H"--I didn't say "Honda."
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    $20 k seems over priced for a Fit.

    If you're going to spend $20k and will lower your highway MPG expectation to 30mpg you could get this...

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Welllll.... a bit more than $20k for that particular car in the trim shown in the photo, but you've got the idea.
  • Re: "Consider, though, that if in fact the Fit is unmatched in car-dom, then Honda is justified in charging just about anything they want for it. Honda only needs to price it in line with the competition if it actually has competition".

    This is puzzling to me, as you said earlier it would be unethical to charge too much if there were no other choices you are saying that Honda can charge whatever they want if it's a car with no real competition. :confuse: With this logic, it sounds like either way, Honda is justified in charging whatever they want.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------
    Re: "I get the feeling that you don't think the Fit has any real competition. Thus I'm puzzled about your opinion on the price increase on the 2009 Fit".

    What is puzzling about this? These are two separate issues in my view.

    First off, no, I DON'T know for sure if the Fit has any real competition--that's why I asked for clarification from our resident research expert, Backy! ;)

    Second, even if I think a car is great, and there may be nothing exactly like it, I still don't expect to be over-charged (note btw that as I indicated earlier, it may indeed not be over-priced for the new features it is bringing).

    But even if it's not over-priced, I will not be coerced into paying MSRP and certainly not (gasp!) over MSRP. No car is that unique or that special or entitled to justify this behavior in my view. That's where I draw the line and walk away.

    That's just my personal opinion, btw. I'm sure there are five thousand other opinions on this. I have no judgment as to what others choose--this sort of choice is so personal and private and varies depending on who you are and what you value.

    Yes, it's Honda's perogative to charge whatever they want, and yes, it's a dealer's perogative to refuse to negotiate and insist on MSRP or even demand over MSRP-- and yes it's also my perogative to just say "Heck no, I'll wait out this nonsense or take my money elsewhere..."

    Having said all that, on paper it sure does appear to be a very good hatchback pick,
    but I've yet to test drive it, so I can't speak to things like comfort and handling.

    And to end on a more positive note, there are reputable dealers out there who will agree never to go over MSRP. My experience is if you shop around and do your homework, you can find some wiggle room with the price with some dealers. Timing of course helps. I feel hopeful that the frenzy will subside in about six months or so, and there will be more leverage for the consumer for those who are willing to wait it out. But I might be completely wrong. Only time will tell....
  • I just saw the photo--first of all, that's not a Hatchback and what is the difference in the MPG between that one and the new FIT?

    MPG's are extremely important these days--especially if you drive a lot and give a hoot about your carbon footprint.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,992
    Yes, it's Honda's perogative to charge whatever they want, and yes, it's a dealer's perogative to refuse to negotiate and insist on MSRP or even demand over MSRP-- and yes it's also my perogative to just say "Heck no, I'll wait out this nonsense or take my money elsewhere..."

    It's the same with anything that's new and popular...the people who want it pay the premium price and those that wait get the better deal. It's the same with flat screen TVs, IPODs, etc., and cars like the Fit.

    You could probably buy a high-end Fit or Civic for the same price as a bare bones Accord. I paid $16,500 for my 2 1/2 year old Sport Auto (MSRP at the time) and based on the competition out there I'm glad I did. 10 years from now when I need to replace my Fit I'll have to look at the competition and see what's out there to replace it. I suppose I could have bought a cheaper Kia or Ford, but then I'd probably be looking for a new one a lot sooner, and had a much worse driving experience during the ownership period. The handling, magic seats, interior roominess, and quality of the Fit are pretty hard to beat.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    This is puzzling to me, as you said earlier it would be unethical to charge too much if there were no other choices available...

    OK, let me make this crystal clear for you. It is unethical to charge too much for a product if there are no other choices available, IF THAT PRODCT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU MUST HAVE TO SURVIVE. Like, in my previous example, clean water. Now, some Fit fans may disagree with me here, but IMO the Fit is not something you must have to survive. You can very easily drive something else. Or nothing else. Many people survive just fine w/o any car at all.

    Yes, it's Honda's perogative to charge whatever they want, and yes, it's a dealer's perogative to refuse to negotiate and insist on MSRP or even demand over MSRP...

    OK, now I am really confused because this seems counter to your previous posts, e.g. where you said it was unethical for Honda to charge so much for the Fit. Now you are saying it's fine for them to charge whatever they want, and for dealers to demand MSRP or more. Anyway, if in fact that is your position I am in 100% agreement with it. That is the way a free market economy works, for products like cars that are not essential to survival and hence there is no regulation, and no need for regulation, on what companies charge for those products except market forces, i.e. supply and demand. I also agree with you that I would not want to pay MSRP or above for a car like the Fit, given that there are several alternatives that would meet my needs as well as if not better than the Fit, for a much lower price. I suppose there is some situation that is possible in which I would pay MSRP or above for a car, but not under current market conditions, with so much competition out there, a down market for car buying, and many good alternatives to choose from. For example, a couple of years ago I might have been willing to pay MSRP for the then-new 2006 base Fit, had I found it met my needs, since its price was very reasonable compared to other alternatives available at the time. Now, with the price increases and more and better competition for the Fit, I wouldn't tend to pay MSRP.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    The "idea" I referred to is that there are many, many cars available for $20k or less. The new Mazda6 is one of them, although I think it would be tough to get one right now for $20k, since the low-bucks version is a practically non-existent loss leader. And I think the car pictured would be a lot more than $20k.

    If you must have a hatchback (2008 Mazda6 was available as a hatch, but I don't think the 2009 hatch is coming here) and you want FE higher (and CO2 footprint lower) than what the Mazda6 delivers, then obviously it's not an alternative for you.
  • Of course there are many cars available under 20K. That's sort of obvious.

    My question was are there any Hatchbacks that can compete with the FIT's safety, MPG , quality, reliability, price. You keep changing the subject. Methinks you just don't want to acknowledge there aren't any.

    Oh, and yes, CO2 footprint is VERY important to me! Gee, I would certainly hope it is quite important to everyone by now!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Yes, I think there are--more than one. But recall that I suggested taking that thread to the "Which Hatchback?" discussion, since I don't think a broad/deep discussion of alternatives to the Fit would be on topic here, in a discussion dedicated to the Fit. If you want to discuss that question more, I'm all for it. (If our Host thinks that's a fitting :) topic for this discussion, then let's do it here.)

    To get things started...
This discussion has been closed.