Onstar in Enclave

booster2

Does anyone know where the Onstar box is mounted in the Enclave? And, has anyone tried disabling it (ie: pulling fuse, removing connectors, etc.)? I'm thinking of buying one but would only do so if I can disconnect the Onstar and I don't have to dissasemble half the car to do so.

hardhawk

I am curious as to why you feel the need to disable onstar? Since the first year service cost is included in the price there is no added cost to you. Are you afraid of being tracked by big brother (GM)? Not being critical, just curious.

booster2

Yeah, that's part of it. Too much information, or potential for abuse. Also, GM is selling customer data, based on what and where you drive to 'approved' marketing partners. I've heard of some pretty 'coincidental' advertising recieved by people. And they even say so in their privacy policy, which they also state they can change at their will. Way too much information going to a private company. I just don't trust it and don't want even the potential for tracking out there. No, I'm not involved in any illegal enterprises. And as GM has already lost one lawsuit for snooping in on someone's conversation, albeit at the behest of the FBI, I'm just uncomfortable. Plus, I don't feel the need to have it, considering the potential for abuse. I mean come on, how many people end up upside down, totally away from civilization where they need Onstar to find them? Except for a very few well publicized cases, I'd say almost none. And since I won't be driving my vehicle in the middle of nowhere in Montana, I don't so the need for it. That and I really hate having have something, and having to pay for it, that I don't want. Probably will be the end of GM products for me.But, I did find find out that the Enclave Nav system is not dependant on Onstar so I'm still thinking about it. All I have to do is find the unit, remove the power and disconnect it so I still have a shot. Or else it's the Acura MDX for me. Sorry, a little long but that's my thinking.

grand6

I recall when I was looking at ordering the enclave I used edmunds TMV feature to get idea of cost. I believe that among the options there was a check box there for "onstar delete". It therefore may be possible to order the Enclave without onstar. When I ordered the Enclave my dealer did not give me the option and I personally had no problem having it included. When I ordered my 2006 corvette I remember having the option of deleting onstar at the time of order which in that case I did(did not want antenna sticking up)

grand6

Yes I just checked and there is an option code UEO for onstar delete(fleet)---not sure what fleet means though---perhaps rental cars can have this deleted only?? Best to check with dealer.

booster2

Thanks. I'll look into it. I'm pretty sure it's standard equipment now but if I can order one without it, I would do that.

hardhawk

Thanks for that information. Pretty eye opening to me! Given the fact that our civil liberties are being trampled upon with regularity now in the name of the "Patriot Act" I could see where law abiding citizens should be concerned. I wonder about the government's ability to drop in on Bluetooth equipment as well.

booster2

Yeah, that's how i feel too. I have to say that I cannot prove anything regarding GM's usage. I only have stories from real users I have talked to. Alo, read the Onstar privacy policy:

http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/privacy_policy.jsp

See what you think. Appears to be lots of loopholes. Just not for me. really bugs me to have to pay for it, esp. if I am able to depower the unit. Then I have a dead box I paid for. Good thinking there.

bobelew

I think that you might be overreacting way too much about the onstar system. Everything that you are worried about can be said about your cell phone or GPS Navigation systems. If you have them on, they also track your location. How do you think they have found all of those lost or injured hikers, hunters etc. I sure wouldn't worry about Big Brother wanting to know your every move. First it is against the law without a court order, and secondly how could they possibly track every onstar user? With the vast number of systems out there, that would be a much more difficult task than the FAA has in tracking each plane in flight. As to the advertising you are receiving, that could have come just from the purchase of the car.
When you think about all of the positive things that the system can do for you, like their turn by turn directions through the radio and the onboard diagnostics, just to name a couple, I think that this makes the system a great advantage! Another option would be to not pay for the service, or opt out.
This system has proved to be so popular that other auto builders are designing similar sytems for their cars and trucks.

hondaford

I am a senior citizen with some specific health problems. I noted several years ago that my readers digest was full of advertisements for drugs and other remedies for my specific ailments. Aint that a coincidence? Every time you use a discount card at
safeway, they record all your purchases. Advertising dollars are dear and they are targeting as much as possible. I am about to get my first onstar car and with all the data out there, this little bit more doesn't worry me.

hardhawk

"First it is against the law without a court order..."

Wrong! Since 9/11 there has been a serious and huge erosion of our once taken for granted personal freedoms. There is all sorts of warrant less government surveillance activities going on out there as we speak. Booster2 has every right to be concerned. We all do. Now, would I hesitate to buy an OnStar equipped car? No. I have had one for over 6 years, but did let the service lapse due to the fact that it is analog in that car. I may be getting another car with OnStar's latest system very soon. However, I agree that the benefits outweigh the danger. I can certainly see why many would be distrustful, however, and not really want the system in their car.

bobelew

Your point is well taken. The point I was trying to make is that for most of us, who would want to waste their resorces trying to keep track of the whereabouts of all of us "average Joes" just for the fun of it? In todays world there are too many big fish to fry. Besides, why should we be so concerned about onstar when there are so many other ways for Big Brother to track us? Like I mentioned before, every time each of us has our cell phones powered on, our movements can also be tracked. Why then the big fear of onstar. I just hate to see someone start messing with the electronics in his/her new car and maybe nullify the warranty and effect the running of the vehicle. If that is such a large concern, why not just buy something other that a GM vehicle?

hardhawk

You make a good point too in that big brother can take a photo from a satellite and can magnify it down to the point they can read a newspaper headline on a paper you lay out on your lawn. I say let 'em track me and be bored stiff!

booster2

I guess my issue is just the point some are making. It's becoming too easy for anyone to track an individual, with no real legal limits. With Onstar, the only limits to what they can do are pretty much what they spell out in their privacy policy, which they can change at their will. And the argument that no one would want to waste their time tracking anyone is totally unrealistic. It's not that they would want to just pick someone and sit there and track you. No, that's not the issue. it's that they can use that information for marketing or whatever purposes they want. How about the scenario where you take your vehicle in for warranty work and they deny it because with Onstar records, they show that you you drove 85 mph (remember trying to pass that guy who looked a little drunk) and that does not fall under the 'normal driving' small print in the warranty.
Or since the vehicle records all those vehicle parameters, you maybe exceeded something or did not do some kind of procedure spelled out in the manual (after all, your a normal person, not an automotive magazine test driver who lives to follow every single procedure and limit to the letter). Yep, they may not try to track you at random, but all that information is recorded and can come back to bite you in the future. And who's to say the dealer doesn't download that stuff every time you head in for maintenance. They say their policy is not to, but that's not binding on anyone and you would have no way to know. It's a slippery slope. You think, oh, who cares about a little information here and there getting out. Plus, I never do anything wrong so why would I care? They don't want me. Maybe not today, but every time you decide to blow off a little freedom here, a little right there, you are just opening up a pandora's box for the future. Think I'm a little paranoid, maybe overreacting? Just ask someone who lived in Germany (or the surrounding countries) around 1939. I have and some of them are very concerned about what they see here today. Seems very familiar, just more high tech today.
As for the evesdropping, yes, Onstar says they will only do so "to comply with legal requirements". So again you think, I'm not a criminal, why would I care? But that does not mean anything. In today's climate of various govt. agencies wanting to get their hands on more information about individuals than at any time in history, under the guise of whatever they want to call it, national security, crime prevention, etc, it's really a crapshoot as to wether you will be victimized. And that would be an appropriate term since, as i said, we're not criminals anyway, right? And again, Onstar change those terms any time they want, they say so right in that 'privacy policy'. And lucky you, you get to pay extra for your vehicle to get all these benefits. personally, I can do without it. And i do not want to pay for it.
Can I live without turn by turn navigation and hands free calling? I think I'll survive. Plus, I have been told that the regular navigation system does not require Onstar so that would work anyway. As far as the warranty, I recieved the same generic veiled threat from GM, that modifying the vehicle and changing it's operation MAY invalidate the warranty. But, if I'm only, say, pulling the power from Onstar, how would that affect the operation of my vehicle? Unless there's more to Onstar than they say. Or maybe there's not at all but they DO NOT want you to disconnect because they really, really want that information they are collecting. Hmmm, just sounds unnerving.
Yes, I guess I do have general concerns about the general loss of privacy everywhere nowadays. And I'm sure it will continue as our lawmakers don't seem too concerned about that (again refer to 1939). But without getting too crazy about that, I'm just not happy with having to pay for a system that has the potential to do things to me I do want or authorize. And aside from the turn by turn and hands free calling, I see no huge advantage to it. I'm sure if I have an accident or the airbag deploys, it will be noticed by someone in a timely manner as I do not live on the deserted surface of the moon. And the tradeoff is not something I'm willing to make. If you are not all that concerned with your privacy and the consequences of it's abuse, well, that's of course, your prerogative. But as for me, I plan to stay Onstar free. If I can figure out a way to disable it in the Enclave, I will consider purchasing it as it seems like a great vehicle. It would be the first GM product I have owned since my first car in high school.

bobelew

Amen to that!

bobelew

I respect your decision which ever way you want to go. It personal choice and I would never try to dissuade you from you decision. All I am trying to say is that what ever we do it seems as though there is someone who knows it, so why lose sleep over what onstar does or doesn't reveal. I have to admit that I am no expert on onstar. I haven't even used it as I don't own the Enclave yet, it is just on order. I wasn't aware that they could record what speed you were driving with respect to some mechanical failure. I may well be wrong, but aren't you reading too much into this system?
As far as the navigation system goes, I believe that it is GPS linked. It does use a DVD format. I think that there are some systems which do use only DVD, but without the GPS they cannot inform you exactly where you are, when to turn, or to recaculate your route if you miss a turn.
Good luck on your Quest! I hope that you end up the the Enclave!

docrw

I think the issue a lot of people have with OnStar, myself included, is that GM does not offer an alternative to the calling feature. They offer a stand alone navigation system so that you do not have to use OnStar but they refuse to offer bluetooth as an option. Personally, I think this is an even bigger deal than the navigation. I would pay for the OnStar service for the navigation if I felt it was better than the in-dash unit. However, I refuse to pay extra to make calls from my own car and get another phone number to keep track of, since OnStar only works with Verizon. If I can get a Nissan Altima, or Toyota Corolla with bluetooth, but not a $45,000 CUV, it is obviously not a cost issue. On top of that, Cadillac offers bluetooth on the STS, so it is not a technology issue. Thus, it comes down to a profit issue, where GM can maximize the amount of revenue they get from OnStar.

booster2

Yeah, aside from the privacy issue, that's my main problem with it. For the money it costs and the market segment they are trying to capture, it's a very lame setup to say the least. The bluetooth would be the way to go but,like you said, that diverts profit away from GM. For an operation that is in such bad shape and trying to get people into their showrooms, that's a very non-competitive setup for sure. I guess you can't completely get rid of the stagnant/backward thinking that has been the hallmark of GM for years. Actually, this would be the first GM vehicle I've owned since 1972, and the way it's looking now, I'm thinking it probably won't be the second one. I personally know 3 people who decided against the Enclave over the Onstar issue, some for the privacy, some for having to buy what they don't want. Hopefully for Buick and GM, after the initial sales rush to the new vehicle dies, This thing won't become one of those dinosaurs sitting around at showrooms for months on end. Time will tell I guess....unless of course they get their heads out of the sand and make it an option.