Lincoln Navigator Complete Brake Failure

mikefl1

I have a 2007 Navigator with 10k. I have on several occasions had brake failure at speeds below 30mph. When I apply the brakes during normal braking it goes to the floor. It has at times pulsated. The anti lock brake light always comes on. The dealer can not figure out the problem? It always happens in deacelaration from abour 30mph. Anyone have any ideas?

jeyhoe

This is homicidal!

I would demand a buy back and a replacement vehicle immediately. You should not be driving this car.

agnesb

ON OCT.24, I was driving at a speed of 30 35 mph, when I applied my breaks suddenly the brakes did not respond and I crashed on back of another vehicle, my car front was complete destroyed thanks God no body was injury, this is my first ever accident in 43 years of driving experience with an impeccable driving record. When the tow truck came to pick up my truck there was no breaks at all. My car has only 15500 miles. I order a mechanical report and I will keep you posted. I will demand a new car for sure. :sick:

coltom

any news? I'm not a big advocate of suing people/companies but you should seriously consider retaining an attorney. I would demand a replacement car - of your choice - and that they pay any rise in your insurance premiums and cover any claims/losses brought by the driver of the other car.

robinz

Mike,

I would love to talk to you. I have the exact same problem with my 2007 Lincoln Navigator. I am presenting my case to the arbitration board on Friday, November 30th. I would love to obtain any type of documentation you have from your dealership. I would be happy to share any of my documentation and experiences with you. Please let me know how I can contact you directly. My email is robinz@woh.rr.com

Thanks!

mikefl1

I can be contacted at mwhittle@intmgmt.com. The biggest problem I have is duplicationg the problem, have you been able to duplicate the problem on demand?

jn1952

:lemon: ? Recently purchased, only 3000 miles. Having brake failure problems. Have already had one small accident trying to stop at a stop sign. No brakes, into the intersection I went hitting a car. Luckily it was very minor. Took my new Lincoln to the dealer I bought it from and they diagnosed "no problem". Still having the problem, I took it to another dealership. Here is what they said....Checked brakes, mechanically bled brakes, IDS eloctronically bled brakes 5 times. Test drove. Pedal felt about the same. Checked front wheel bearing play, OK. Called Ford Hotline, talked to "Ken", he checked and found no known concerns. (Really? that's not what I'm reading on this website). Anyway, Ken said to compare to a like vehicle. Dealer did not have a Navigator so he drove a 2008 King Ranch Expedition. Test drove it and the brake pedal feel was about the same as my Navigator. (That's scary!). So, after the test drive, dealer and the hotline feel that this is a normal condition. WHAT? NO BRAKES IS A NORMAL CONDITION! YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! What are we to do, prepare a class action suit or just wait until enough people get hurt or killed before the manufacturer wakes up? Other than that, Buyer BEWARE!

mikefl1

It appears they have found the problem. Each wheel has a speed sensor and the sensors are not communicating properly. The sensors malfunction causing the car to think it is in a slide. The ABS deactivates the brakes and wham you hit something...

They replaced the sensors today. I will keep you posted. The factory engineers came to South Florida and looked at my car to figure this out.

jn1952

You will love this.....received a reply to a letter I sent Ford regarding my 2008 Lincoln Navigator not having brakes. This is what they replied:

"The circumstances, which you outlined concerning your Navigator, have been given careful consideration.

Ford Motor Company considers the satisfaction of its owners to be one of our most important objectives. We commit very substantial resources and effort in a sincere attempt to resolve the concerns of our owners. However, limits must be placed on those efforts. Although we regret not being able to meet your expectations, our review indicates that the information provided by your dealer is appropriate. Therefore, we are unable to be of further assistance in this matter.

We are sorry that our response could not be more favorable to you. Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company."

Sincerely, Marsha Wojewski-Boyd, Ford Motor Company, Customer Relationship Center

Amazing......no brakes and it's ok?! Sounds like they are going to let the issue fester and try to keep their losses to a minimum. Wonder how many people are going to have to die or get seriously injured before Ford wakes up and fixes the problem?

jn1952

How are your brakes since the sensors have been replaced?

jeyhoe

Man, that's a fine way to do business, eh?

I had almost exactly the same experience though on something far less critical - the HVAC system on my LS would blow 110 degree air out the center stack and 60 degree air out the side vents at the same time. After Ford Division Rep agreed there was a problem and promised to fix it, corporate got involved, told me it was "in spec" refused to show me said spec and thenceforth Div Rep would not take my calls.

I think if I were you, a lawyer or at least a look into the lemon law in your state would be my next stop. You cant drive around in a car that sometimes has no brakes. Sure you could end up winning a lot of money from Ford but only if you or someone in you car gets truly hosed-up. You dont want that. Get rid of this beast by making Ford eat it. THat letter will go a long way to show they dont give a rip.

stever

The NHTSA is interested in problems like this. File a complaint at NHTSA.dot.gov.

mikefl1

The barke problem has finally been repaired. It in the end was found to be a speed sensor on the wheel. They replaced all 4 sensors just in case. There has been NO other prolems since the sensor was replaced.

jhays

my 07 (24K miles) has been at dealership for this problem for 10 days now. I had a problem with the abs "thinking" it was in a skid, or on ice or whatever, (it was blue sky and 75 degrees here in AZ at the time, in town going about 35 MPH) and the car made heavy grinding type noises, transmission shifted down, and the engine felt like it momentarily stalled. I had no brake control for a moment. Then all was good. I headed for a Ford dealership 2 miles away and the ABS light came on two or three times, on the way and when it did there was little or no brakes. That dealer ffound no problem, and no codes showed up. He switched the ABS system off, and had me take it to the dealer where I bought it in Tucson (45 miles away). They can't replicate the problem, but are still researching.

mikefl1

The problem is in the speed sensor on each wheel. If they replace all 4 sensors it will go away. They will need to contact FORD for approval, but this is a guaranteed fix. You can not duplicate it that is why you need to repalce the sensors. It is a covered warranty repair.

jhays

Well I got my Nav. back yesterday (4-8-08). 20 days in the shop. They "fixed" it per the "hot line" by checking for ambient light coming between the dash and defrost vent, messing up a sensor that is "sensitive" to light on the steering column under the dash. They put electricians tape on the void, stopping the light coming in. I live in Arizona---any idea what heat does to electrical tape???? I filed a complaint with the NHTSA, pulled up summaries of all the service bulletins on the Nav., and am heading back to the Ford dealer tomorrow so they will fix the defrost plastic, that they did not affix properly to the dash, and now it rattles, and to ask to see their Service bulletins that (may) mention my problem. Lord help Lincoln (please).

dchittib

just bought a 2006 navigator from a private owner.. today.. only 14800 miles..
clean, under warranty , so did the deal and took the car to work..
once when I was reversing the car from the sellers home, I felt the brake not working.. it was a fraction of a second, so didn't register.. put it in drive and drove away.. put about 50 miles today.. and brought it home..

loaded my wife and 2 kids (4yr and 2yr old) in the new car , so my wife can drive me to work, and I can pickup my old car.. our house is on a hill, with a sloping driveway..in a culdesac wife put the car in reverse, and next thing you know.. lost all control of the car.. brakes wouldnt work.. went down the hill for 50 ft or so.. we were sh*t scared.. the slope goes straight to a house across the street.. I was sitting in front passenger side.. and asked her to hit brakes.. she said she is.. but nothing happened.. I put the auto shift into drive and park, nothing happened.. luckily the car swerved to the left into a public fence.. the fence wrapped around our wheel and stopped us from hitting a tree.. just happened 30 mins ago.. still waiting for AAA and the cops.. as I type this.. thought I'd do a quick check on net for this problem.. and lo and behold.. I see your stories..

My wife used to work at Ford.. and totally pissed at Ford right now..
thank god.. kids and we are safe.. didn't go through the house at the bottom of the hill.. the fence also saved us from ramming into a tree.. given the slope we picked up speed of some 25 /30 miles per hr.. and so glad kids didnt get hurt..

Ford better explain this.. Called the seller, and he says never happened to him..

DC

jeyhoe

Geez, that really s*cks. I dont know what the he!! is going on with these things. I have 47K on my 2004 and its been great. Except that it recently developed a brake issue - after I paid the dealer to put new brakes on. Since then if I hit the pedal hard in a panic stop, the pedal resists in a really strange way and I can hear vacuum - air escaping. There is NO ABS actio caus I am familiar with what that feels like. THe cars stops but no way is it stopping like it should. then when I release the pedal, it sortof resists coming back to normal and the brakes also slowly release. I had it back to dealer once and they seemed to fix it, but it's back. Normail braking seems fine, only when I hit the pedal hard. Course this is nothing like what happened to you. Dont know what to say except geez, sorry. Good luck. Certainly this is a guess, but I wonder if the previous owner had this happen and decided to dump it. If he took it to dealer, there should be a record of them trying to fix it. In this case he certainly should have told you.

flatrockale

Mike,
2006, 30,000 miles, bought new.
Hope you get this, your reply was excellent and i had the exact same braking issue as "jhays" I live in a gorge filled college town and am a experienced driver, towing handler, motorcycle driver. Without that i would have surely killed someone when it happened to me on a steep hill in an elementary school zone.

After absolutely no help from the dealership ( "Ms. it was a stone under your pad maybe") i self diagnosed my car issue from this forum. Jhays perfectly wrote the symptoms and course of events.... verbatim!!!!!
I had one speed sensor replaced (where i heard the noise, front drivers side) almost $400.00 I kept the part for future recall?? I was to scared to even drive the car!!!!!
But no matter how hard i tried, Ford wouldn't warranty it, i paid out of pocket. They stated "because the problem couldn't be reproduced, it wouldn't be warranted" I went all the way to the top.
Do you have any further ideas on how i can be reimbursed since you seem to know about " not being able to reproduce the problem"
I am recently divorced and this car is out of my price range for payments and maintenece but i'm forced to keep up with it for now.

Any ideas....help!!!

mikefl1

Ford Lincoln Mercury just replaced my 2007 Navigator with a 2008 Nvigator under the Florida Lemon law. THe porblem is electronic and they finally stepped up to the plate. If anyone is having this problem get friendly with the Service Department people and they will guide you on what to do. It took me a year but I got a new car that has no problems as an even exchange, they called it a "exchange of collateral". Things started happening when I had the service department help me. The speed sensors seem to correct the problem but after 65 days in the shop who knows??? I had no intention of risking my kids life on a guess.

riverdave

I just bought an 06 Navigator about 3 weeks ago. 43K on the odometer The truck appears to be in perfect condition. I noticed a couple issues when I was driving home, and I was going to take it to the dealership when I got a chance.

I leave my house (San Diego) at around 9 in the morning on a nice bright sunny day, and begin heading down the hill. I noticed the traction control light flashing and though I'd put it on my list of things to talk to the dealer about when I take it in. That's when I came upon a red light (heading down hill around 45mph) Push the brakes and nothing.. nada, zip, zilch. Blazed through the red light at about 50 (accelerating down the hill). It's a miracle I didn't kill somebody. Everybody at that intersection must have thought I was nuts.

Did the pump the brakes deal, and finally got some action on the front left tire. Brake pedal went much further then it usually does, and then started pulsing, and I could hear the front left tire starting to chirp, and the truck slowly came to a stop.

I had the truck flat bedded to Witt Lincoln in Escondido CA.. I have talked to the service advisor a few times on the phone, but haven't been down there to talk to him yet.

His stance is basically they can't duplicate any problem so there is no problem. Said the traction control threw a couple codes, and they reset it and no problems.

I'll be printing out this thread and taking it with me down there. I can't believe that Ford/Lincoln wouldn't be more pro-active on this problem?

This is my 2nd Navigator by the way. Last one was a 2000, I put over 200,000 miles on it with no problems. Finally an A/C compressor let go while I was at the river, so I traded it on this one. I must admit though I'm kinda nervous about driving the car now though?

steel8

On 10/29 mileage on vehicle was 19,758. vehicle was being driven by my wife on a flat city street in Laguna Hills CA @ approximately 10 am @ approx 40 mph and the day was clear and warm. She applied the brake pedal to slow down and the brake pedal was hard and would not depress and the vehicle would not slow down and a grinding noise came from the front wheels and the front end was shaking the antiskid light came on (while she continued to press down on the brake pedal) and the the brakes did not engage until the vehicle traveled approx 100 feet. The vehicle slowed and she pulled into a parking lot at a slow speed and it happened again.Towed to closest dealer. That dealer ffound no problem, and no codes showed up. Took it to dealer that sold the vehicle to us. They can't replicate the problem, but are still researching.

raheel

We have a 2007 Lincoln Navigator (L) that we bought brand new for my wife. The brakes never felt 'great' from the very start but we thought that due to the fact that car is new and the brakes are not broken in or that because of the vehicle's heavier weight, may be that is how they are supposed to be and that they will get better over time.

However, what started happening a few months down the line was "the complete brake failure" exactly as reported by mikefl1 on this forum. We took the car to Witt Lincoln in San Diego and they could not reproduce the problem. I went and discussed the issue with Mr. Scott Witt (Director of Parts and Service – part of the family that owns the dealership) and had him drive around in the vehicle but couldn’t reproduce the problem. He said that nobody else had reported any similar problem and that the brakes seemed ok. But upon insistence, they said they will keep the car and try to identify the problem. They replaced the Master Cylinder under warranty. When we got the car back, we were still not 100% sure if it really fixed the real problem.

The problem happened in a big way again some time down the line when my wife was driving with all the kids in the car and the brakes failed at the stop light! The car did not stop and kept going at about 35 mph when cars from the other side had already started entering the intersection. She reported that there were no brakes for about 10 seconds. All the cars honked, swerved, etc., and so did my wife. Luckily there was no accident otherwise it could have resulted in serious injury or death.

Had it towed to the Witt Lincoln dealership again. The result? They could not diagnose or reproduce the problem and said everything was fine. I was out of the country at the time and had to make several calls and discussed the issue with Scott at length (hour long conversations). Finally, they agreed to replace the brake booster. The overall feel improved a bit and the brake failure issue didn’t happen for some time.

But alas! it didn't last too long and the problem has resurfaced again now. About a couple weeks ago when my wife was driving down the hill the antiskid light came on with whirring / grinding noises, and there was no control over brakes. This condition lasted for a few seconds and then the brakes came back again and all was back to normal. There were no cars too close to her fortunately, otherwise it would have resulted in a crash.

After reading what is happening with the Toyota and how the company handled it, I started researching about brake failure problem in Lincoln Navigators and came across this thread. I am going to print this out and take it to Witt Lincoln dealership and see what they suggest.

My question is should I be happy with the speed sensors replacement (noted here on the forum as sort of a fix for the problem) or should I be looking to get a lawyer and fight the case for a buy back or replacement under the California Lemon Law???????

robinz

Have you resolved your issue? If not, I may have an answer for you. I had a 2008 Navigator that did the exact same thing. It was in the shop 9 times. I got tired of it and filed a Lemon Law suit and won. If you need more details, I will provide. Contact me at robinz@woh.rr.com.

robinz

Have you resolved the issue "antiskid light came on with whirring / grinding noises, and there was no control over brakes. This condition lasted for a few seconds and then the brakes came back again and all was back to normal. There were no cars too close to her fortunately, otherwise it would have resulted in a crash. "
I had a 2008 Navigator that did the exact same thing. It was in the shop 9 times. I got tired of it and filed a Lemon Law suit and won. If you need more details, I will provide. Contact me at robinz@woh.rr.com.

coupeflyr

I have a 2004 Lincoln LS that has the same intermittent problem going back to when it was new. Grinding noise when brake pedal is depressed. Pedal goes to the floor and no braking action. So far I have always been able to stop by shifting into neutral. Service reps could never duplicate problem and Ford would not authorize any repair action. This happen many times and has been left with the dealer many times. I could never find a way to duplicate the problem, Service manager attempted to get me a replacement but Ford will not admit that there is a problem. Vehicle is now long out of warranty. I have retained all documentation for future legal. Note that my problem only shows up on cool damp days.

lauralyn

Hello Mike,

My brakes completely failed with the same symptoms you described. They cannot duplicate the problem at my dealership after driving it more than 100 miles. They applied a foam tape over a sensor below the steering column and said to pick the car up as there’s nothing more they can do. Ford Customer Care refuses to do any further work/research, even though I have told them about the speed sensor information I found on the internet. Hoping you have some good advice, as I’m scared to death to drive the car again!!

Thank you,

Laura Shaw
shawfamily@socal.rr.com

nicole1978

I have had the SAME problem with my 2006 Navigator! The warranty covered the expenses but FORD can not find or FIX the problem. It is VERY scary! I have 2 small children and this problem has happened 3 times now. Against my better judgment I took the car back after the second incident and they ASSURED me that the car was fixed. Well...it just happened AGAIN for the 3rd time last night and I CAN NOT DRIVE THIS CAR ANYMORE!!!!! I will not put my kids in it and don't know what to do. The service director has tried to be kind, but there is nothing that he can do for me at this point, he directed me to "Ford" and I have tried to get them to buy back or replace the car. They claim I can not file for the lemon law since I am now outside my miles but the first time it happened it was with in my warranty! VERY frustrating and VERY concerning that this is happening all over and FORD is not doing anything about it. Thank GOD I was lucky enough all three times to not cause and accident, but honestly, what is it going to take before they take responsibility and fix this problem.

janet121

I'm pretty nervous after reading all the brake issues with the Navigator. My friend has a 2004 with 43,000 miles that I want to purchase and I fear that her car is not exempt from the issue. She lives in Newport, RI and is state couselor. She actually travels in another car she owns...more fuel efficient apose the Navigator. Her prime reason for selling it, "she doesn't have much use for it". This is why it has such low mileage for the year. What is my line of defense in regards to the purchase. I ask this only because she would never put my life on the line just to sell the SUV to me. Your thoughts please. I need to purchase it for towing and traveling with my dog. :surprise:

teaba71

I have had a 2007 and a 2008 Navigator and this problem occured with both vehicles. I thought I was going crazy, because I would try to describe the grinding sound, the abs brake light appearing and the lack of brake control to my mechanic and after checking both vehicles several times, he could find nothing. I am so glad to have found this post because it has never happened while my husband was driving and I think that he, along with my mechanic think I'm nuts. They always say to bring it in when it's happening, but it's so sporatic, it's hard to do that. I fear that I will get into an accident with my kids in the car, but I am not quite sure what to do as my Navigator is no longer covered under warranty. Can someone please give me advice as to what to do. Will contacting an attorney work?? Thanks!

robinz

I didn't go through an attorney. I filed a lemon law complaint through the BBB. I live in the state of Ohio and not sure what the process would be for the state you reside in. When you purchased the vehicle, the dealership is required to give you the lemon law procedure for your area.

To make a long story short, once a Field Rep from Ford went to the dealership I purchased the car, it was discovered there is a black box somewhere in the engine of the vehicle. It is computerized and something in there had to be replaced. Once that was replaced, the vehicle stopped doing it but I was just done. My vehicle had been in the shop 156 days in less than a year and I didn't feel safe driving it with my daughter in the car. Since I had already filed the lemon law suit, I rode it out and won. Ford didn't even show up for the telecon with the arbitrator.

I received all of my money back to include interest on the loan. It was a much easier process than I ever thought possible.

Good luck!

Robin