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GM News, New Models and Market Share



  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    On a much different note, I 'cross the aisle' to wish you, bpizzuti, good luck in dealing with the storm your way. We're even dealing with it here in NE OH. "Be careful out there".

    Andre picked a good time to be in Aruba!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,609
    Thanks for the well wishes. Same to you and yours.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,609
    So Honda, Mazda and Kia beat Caddy, Buick GMC and Chevy. Wow. :shades:

    Consumer Reports' reliability ratings

    Automakers were ranked based on average predicted reliability scores:

    1. Scion
    2. Toyota
    3. Lexus
    4. Mazda
    5. Subaru
    6. Honda
    7. Acura
    8. Audi
    9. Infiniti
    10. Kia
    11. Cadillac
    12. GMC
    13. Nissan
    14. Mercedes-Benz
    15. Chevrolet
    16. BMW
    17. Hyundai
    18. Volkswagen
    19. Jeep
    20. Volvo
    21. Buick
    22. Mini
    23. Chrysler
    24. Dodge
    25. Ram
    26. Lincoln
    27. Ford
    28. Jaguar

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    edited October 2012
    "Predicted" reliability rating? What does that mean? What model years are covered? So, it's an average of a Colorado and a Malibu, among other things, for Chevrolet?

    Look at Hyundai and BMW, and the darlings of the 'no bailout' crowd, Ford and Lincoln. Tsk tsk.

    Again, this is a rattle is weighed the same as a transmission, right?

    From this report, I would say that Chevrolet Silverado, Equinox, Suburban, Tahoe, and Traverse by themselves would be higher up the list, since GMC markets models virtually identical to those Chevrolet models and GMC is higher up the list than Chevrolet--above Nissan and M-B.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,724
    Boy there seems to be some real surprises here. Buick at the bottom of GM near the proverbial bottom feeder Chrysler and Dodge brands. Ford in the pits. I read that the problems aren't limited to Synch either and their newer product introductions have been somewhat dismal in quality. I wonder if they are starting to feel a squeeze from a fixed cost overhang that came from not going BK? Kia, which I believe is the lower cost alternative, is notably above Hyundai. I wonder of that is because Hyundai has more AWD vehicles? Audi winning, and BMW losing, in the German Lux segment. Interesting stuff!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,609
    Looks like CR will remain a force despite the "bailout crowd" whining.

    The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.

    For balance, here's the good news for GM: they are moving up...from lows earned by years of quality-disease! :P

    Cadillac is the top U.S. brand, having moved up 14 spots this year. Its CTS coupe was the most reliable domestic car. A number of other General Motors nameplates—Buick, Chevrolet, GMC—also moved up in the ranking. The Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car continues to have above-average reliability,and the compact Chevrolet Cruze, dismal in its first year, improved to average.

    Again, not leading but improving to AVERAGE! :lemon:

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    edited October 2012
    I would much-prefer a Cruze to anything else in the size and price class. Built down the road from me, and all the mags mention cabin quietness, which seems lost on a lot of cars these days.

    What is your take on Hyundai's decline, and do you think it seems illogical to be so below Kia?

    I'll have to see what U.S. sales of all makes from 2010-2012 have been, to get a feel for what kind of a sample they really get.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    Circlew, as always, you are being disingenous.

    Uplander, your post was confusing - you reply to circlew but the post was mine. Not sure how to interpret that.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    Number of models=consumer choice.

    Well, GM should certainly have been successful then, as they had ten or more divisions prior to bankruptcy. Tons of nameplate models. How well did that strategy do for them?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    Note to tlong: Guess what? Early Hondas were rust-buckets also, and Accord CVCC engines were pigs, reliability-wise. They just weren't sold in the numbers that seven model years of Vegas were, back then.

    I'm sure early Hondas did rust. But I didn't see them rusting in hot dry Southern California like a huge number of the Vegas did.

    The CVCC may have had its issues, but it was a very innovative engine. I don't think they had anywhere near the problems of GM's early '80's diesels, or the V8-6-4, for example.

    I'm ready to admit GM is an awful lot better than in the past. Are you ready to admit a lot of GM product was junk back in those days?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    We can agree to disgree on this one.

    Yes, we can. As we have previously on this same issue.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,187
    To me the surprises are:

    Scion doing as well or better than Toyota/Lexus.

    Mazda being way up there, I always hear of a bunch of issues from a small sample size admittedly, but even in the forums people that have owned them seem to have their fair share of issues. Mazda shortening their warranty about 7 years back didn't help.

    I'd of figured Infiniti would be doing better, but not bad.

    Audi being way above VW doesn't surprise me in the least bit, it follows what I have observed, experienced, and noted; it simply just shows Audi spends time and money on quality control, whereas VW skimps in that department a bit.

    For Ford to be below Chrysler; that is dismal!
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,187
    You will be even more amazed at 100K or 125K. My current '05 TL at 128K has had virtually nothing go wrong. Our Ody is at 85 K with an electric window motor replacement as its only issue. Our '90's Accord went 120K with no problems until we gave to our inlaws and then an unlicensed driver rear ended them and totalled it.

    Experiences like that seem typical to me with Honda. I think that's the biggest reason they have superior resale value. In my mind, miles on a used Honda are almost irrelevant, especially compared to important things, like its condition, maintenance, cleanliness, and age.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    I'm in Vegas for SEMA/AAPEX. Appreciate the thought though :shades:

    Ford and Dodge bailed out of the segment.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    Sorry about that, tlong. I think I'd accused you once before of being 'circlew'! Your post looked and sounded like a 'circlew' post, though! My mistake.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    GM had ten divisions? Wow, I learn something new here everyday!

    Aren't we talking auto divisions?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    Sorry about that, tlong. I think I'd accused you once before of being 'circlew'! Your post looked and sounded like a 'circlew' post, though! My mistake.

    No problem uplander, and thanks for the message. I'll try to be a little different stylistically than circlew. Don't want to tread on his turf!
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    GM had ten divisions? Wow, I learn something new here everyday!

    Let me try here:

    1. Chevy
    2. Buick
    3. Saturn
    4. Pontiac
    5. Cadillac
    6. Hummer
    7. Opel
    8. Holden
    9. GMC
    10. Oldsmobile
    11. Geo (not really a division, what was it?)

    OK, so Olds has been gone a while, so perhaps 9 more recently. ;)

    I still don't get the purpose out of all of those names. Talk about brand dilution.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    Don't forget Vauxhaul, Isuzu, Daewoo...

    In reality those were all brands not specifically divisions.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    Didn't know you were talking world-wide. Let's stick to North America. Was Hummer ever sold at stand-alone dealers? Not in my experience. Same with Geo.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,721
    Was Hummer ever sold at stand-alone dealers?

    I've seen Hummer dealers that were separate from other GM brands. I don't know how wide spread they were, but I've seen them in large cities.

    Regardless, IMO, Hummer was definitely marketed as its own division. I don't know about Geo other than I've only seen them sold at Chevy dealers.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    I've seen Hummer dealers that were separate from other GM brands. I don't know how wide spread they were, but I've seen them in large cities.

    IIRC, GM wanted stand alone showrooms for Hummer like so:

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    I've only ever seen Hummer and Cadillac in the same building.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Can't speak for everywhere, but in Greenville SC and Columbia SC, the Hummer dealerships had their own specially-designed buildings and car lots, apart from any other model.

    Now, whether or not they were included as part of another dealership business/entity/corporation, I can't say. But, I can say without any doubt that the marketing intent was to imply the dealership was independent of any other model, and was advertised on the TV and radio as such. It was always "XXX Hummer", never "XXX Hummer, Chevrolet-Buick", etc...
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,187
    It looks like he forgot to list SAAB, but I suppose they dropped that division a couple years ago!
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 41,885
    In Bellevue WA, there was a Hummer-only building like that. Kind of ridiculous, but it worked out well - Hummer went under around the same time the local Caddy dealer lost their lease, so Caddy is now in the building.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    The buildings in SC were rather gaudy, massive chrome structures, which I guess the designers thought might be along the same lines as the vehicles being sold from their locations...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,652
    Would you have considered Volvo a 'division' of Ford? I didn't...saw it as a foreign make they handled. A division to me means designed, assembled, and marketed in North America...Chev, Pontiac, Olds, Saturn, Buick, Cadillac--each of which were often sold in their individual dealerships, hundreds that way, Ford, Mercury, Lincoln were divisions (Lincoln-Mercury one division with two makes of cars); Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth, similarly.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    I did. Have to admit to taking a little perverse pleasure in asking a new owner in the extended family how she liked her new Ford back in '03 or so. :blush:

    "In 1999, Volvo sold its car division Volvo Cars to Ford Motor Company for $6.45 billion." (Wikipedia)
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