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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Looks like a bug waiting to be squashed under Paul Bunyan's boot at some point.

    It's definitely a "love it or hate it " design.

    One could make the argument that its sporty and nimble, but the are lots of other models that offer the same, but look much better.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    They are tiny inside too.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,619
    One note: Why doesn't GM have a car in the Top 10 2012 sales list? Should'nt they by now?

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,753
    As said, reality lags perception, and maybe with 'darling' CR rating GM cars better and foreign makers (some, anyway), lesser than in past years, word will get around. Again, the Malibu rated a higher total score than Altima, Optima, Passat, and similar-sized Subaru product.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,753
    That's 'perception lags reality'. Some good things being said about GM lately. Some of us already knew this, though. ;)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,260
    Good for GM having some solid initial quality reviews. I'll reserve judgment until they start getting some red dots for vehicles 7 years or older.

    Even the freaking Neon might have gotten some non-black dots it's first 3 years.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,260
    One note: Why doesn't GM have a car in the Top 10 2012 sales list?

    When I've told people in person that Big 3 vehicles suck face to face, the pro-domestic crowed almost always has countered with I had so and so for "enter 6 digit mileage here" miles, and never had any big issues. The so and so was ALWAYS "enter Big 3 truck here." I'd always countered with it seems the Big 3 don't know how to make a decent CAR, but I suppose they've figured out trucks.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,753
    Well, per Power, 2009 models overall for Chevrolet are better than Audi, VW, Benz, BMW, Subaru, and Nissan. That's not 'new model' stuff.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I'd always countered with it seems the Big 3 don't know how to make a decent CAR, but I suppose they've figured out trucks.

    The Big Three have traditionally done full-sized cars very well too, but unfortunately that market has dried up. Oddly, GM was traditionally the king when it came to full sized cars, and Chrysler was always the weakest. Yet, now that GM has retired the old Lucerne/DTS, and Ford did away with the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car, the only domestic offering even resembling full size, IMO, is the Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300. And even there, I think of them as more of a "big midsize".
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Naah, they're definitely full-size (unless you consider Rolls Royce and Bentley to be "full size" anyway). I'm wondering how the redesigned Impala will stack up, given that it may be smaller (they should have just used the Caprice PPV and counted the extra rear legroom as a bonus).
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Posts: 181
    edited January 2013
    What's also interesting is the seams that WEREN'T finished by the companies on many cars. For example, the 1973-79 Honda Civic had a body-color panel under the front bumper that was attached with bolts to the front fenders.

    The 1970-71 Ford intermediates had A-pillars that were finished with a separate, full-length body-colored panel. The seams where this panel meets the roof are clearly visible.

    Interestingly, for its all-new 1972 intermediates, Ford used a finished pillar with no visible seams, while GM picked up the separate panel with seams for the A pillar on its 1973-77 "Colonnade" intermediates.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Posts: 181
    edited January 2013
    uplanderguy: As a result, IMHO, they were a comfortable, pretty quiet car, and were roomy inside too as you've noted before. The Fords seemed cheap by comparison IMHO--however, IIRC, they were a good bit less expensive. An Olds or Buick intermediate in '78 could cross the $7K sticker mark--a Monte Carlo could do, now that I think about it--and that was pretty high back then for a car that size.

    GM and Ford were downsizing their line-ups at different rates in the late 1970s - GM was the clear leader in this regard - so their offerings didn't match up as neatly as they did in the 1960s and early 1970s.

    The Fairmont/Zephyr were replacements for the old Maverick/Comet, and thus were supposed to be inexpensive compacts. They competed with the Nova. (This got even more jumbled when GM replaced the old, rear-wheel-drive compacts with the new front-wheel-drive X-cars in April 1979.)

    The 1978 GM intermediates were supposed to be new-age intermediates, and thus more expensive and more "premium" than the Fairmont/Zephyr.

    Even though the cars were roughly the same size, the first Fox-platform cars weren't direct competitors with the GM intermediates.

    That didn't happen until 1980, when the Fox-based Thunderbird and Cougar XR-7 appeared to take on the Cutlass Supreme/Regal/Grand Prix/Monte Carlo, followed by the 1981 Granada and Cougar.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Ok yeah, had to do it. GM is the most popular auto manufacturer....with the government. GM has retaken the lead for fleet sales to people that pay with your money without checking with you first. ;)

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/gm-regains-its-crown-as-government-car-- of-choice/

    Hey, at least they're good at something, right?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,156
    “Chevy Runs Deep” is being dropped as the Bow Tie Brand’s marketing slogan of choice, as the last vestige of the Joel Ewanick area has departed the RenCen.

    The new slogan “Find New Roads“, is said to resonate better with consumers across the globe. "


    I sort of like the new slogan, the old one sucked. Although even the new one doesn't mean much, but at least it suggests that you can drive the car!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Well, per Power, 2009 models overall for Chevrolet are better than Audi, VW, Benz, BMW, Subaru, and Nissan. That's not 'new model' stuff.

    I understand your point here, but your comparative selections aren't really appropriate, except maybe for Nissan.

    Chevrolet isn't by any stretch of the imagination in the luxury vehicle market, which is exactly where BMW, MB, and Audi target their products.

    Having owned both "Everyman" and "Luxury" vehicles, I can tell you from personal experience that the quality I might find acceptable in a S-10 pickup would be totally unacceptable in a BMW 328.

    VW is in the competition car-wise, but doesn't offer pickups, a large segment of Chevrolet sales. Vw should be on the same level if one is rating quality and construction.

    And Subaru is definitely in a "niche" market and doesn't even come close to being a market-wide player. Most buyers of Subarus are not your typical GM car buyer. AFAIK, every Subaru has a boxer engine, so it has limited variance within individual model power trains.

    Nissan is perhaps a suitable target comparison, since it offers a similar product lineup in cars and it sells pickup trucks.

    IMO, its like comparing the sales of handbags by Walmart and Gucci. Walmart will always sell more due to price, and most buyers of high-line Gucci handbags aren't the least bit interested in what handbags Walmart has on the shelf.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    From your link...

    Topping the sales charts for the feds was the Chevrolet Malibu, with 4,341 sold at an average transaction price of $15,778.

    That price seems a bit below market value, as its the average price. The current base price listed on the Chevrolet web-site is $21,995.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    edited January 2013
    That didn't happen until 1980, when the Fox-based Thunderbird and Cougar XR-7 appeared to take on the Cutlass Supreme/Regal/Grand Prix/Monte Carlo, followed by the 1981 Granada and Cougar.

    Things really got jumbled up in the late 70's, as GM was really the only manufacturer to offer a truly new downsized intermediate platform, with the '78 Malibu et/al. Ford and Mopar just took their compact cars, restyled them a bit, and tried to pass them off as intermediates.

    In 1978, Consumer Reports actually got rid of their "intermediate" category for cars. Everything was either "subcompact", "compact", or "large". "Compact" included the Nova, Granada, Fairmont, Aspen/Volare, and Diplomat/LeBaron, but also the newly-downsized Malibu and company. "Old school" intermediates, such as the Fury/Monaco, Cordoba, LTD-II/Cougar and Thunderbird were actually grouped in as "large cars", along with the Caprice, Impala and the old mastodons like the Newport/New Yorker and the full-sized Ford products.

    Actually, I wonder if they dropped the "midsize" category in 1977? That year, when they tested a Caprice sedan, they compared it to an LTD-II, a Cutlass Supreme, and a Fury or Monaco. They called them all "large" cars, and said that nobody needed anything bigger, so they refused to test anything like an LTD, Marquis, Gran Fury, or Newport/New Yorker, etc.

    I guess you could argue that Ford never came up with a truly new "downsized" intermediate until the 1986 Taurus/Sable? And since Chrysler started basing everything off of the K-car, a compact, for them a "new" intermediate wouldn't arrive until the 1993 Intrepid/Concorde? Those were marketed as full-sized cars by that time, but I think the EPA classified them as midsized, because they came in slightly under the "full size" threshold.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,753
    edited January 2013
    The chart isn't about 'owner satisfaction', it's about problems. I think you're implying that we should be OK with more problems if it's a higher-end vehicle. ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    That price seems a bit below market value, as its the average price. The current base price listed on the Chevrolet web-site is $21,995.

    That was for the fiscal year ended September 30, so those would have all been the old style Malibu. Unless they were dumping ECOs into government fleets, which could be possible. We ended up getting a Fusion hybrid or two, although my project ended up with an Impala.

    Also, the government doesn't have to pay sales tax on those cars, so that will keep the transaction price down lower, as well. I remember back in 1996 or so, we got five Oldsmobile Achievas for $65,000 total. Or, $13K apiece.

    I thought that was pretty cheap at the time. But, adjusting for inflation, and considering what a major improvement the Malibu is, $15,778 is dirt-cheap in comparison!
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Posts: 181
    edited January 2013
    It's interesting how much richer GM was than even its two domestic rivals in those days. Its downsizing effort was much more elaborate and comprehensive than those of either Ford or Chrysler.

    When the 1977 GM full-size cars debuted, they were huge critical and sales successes. Everyone knew that Chrysler and Ford would have to follow suit, given the success of those cars and the pressures of CAFE. The GM cars made everything else seem outdated.

    Consumer Reports may have wanted to make a statement by not testing anything larger than the GM full-size cars, but all of us knew that the Ford and Chrysler offerings were ultimately obsolete products biding their time.

    The first Taurus, ironically enough, did the same thing to the contemporary GM and Chrysler offerings that the 1977 GM full-size cars did to their competitors - make them look old-fashioned and obsolete. In 1986, GM's competitors in this class were the four-year-old A-body Celebrity/Century/Cutlass Ciera/A6000, while Chrysler was still peddling stretched K-cars.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Oh I'm sure we can pick on the new one too (Find new roads because it can't handle the road you're on, hah!), but I like how Chevy is at least trying to talk about the car and the drive now.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Fleet sales, as I've mentioned repeatedly, are not nearly as lucrative as retail sales. Fleets demand, and generally get, bulk discounts, and know they have the whip hand when it comes to any negotiation. They also know they're getting the models that most people don't want in some cases.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    The chart isn't about 'owner satisfaction', it's about problems. I think you're implying that we should be OK with more problems if it's a higher-end vehicle.

    No, exactly the opposite.

    I'm far more likely to accept minor issues on a $300 Hotpoint refrigerator than a $3000 SubZero refrigerator, therefore I'm far more likely to complain or respond to a survey with an issue on a higher priced product than a base-line, economy product... As I suspect most people are as well.

    Besides, typically a higher priced vehicle has far more options, which means far more potential things to break and cause problems.

    The iDrive controller will NEVER be a problem on a Malibu...
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Also, the government doesn't have to pay sales tax on those cars, so that will keep the transaction price down lower, as well. I remember back in 1996 or so, we got five Oldsmobile Achievas for $65,000 total. Or, $13K apiece.

    Sales tax really isn't a factor at all, as it isn't included in any new car pricing on its web site.

    I guess as a taxpayer, I appreciate the low cost of he vehicles. As a GM co-owner, I'm not so appreciative...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,753
    Yeah, but a problem is a problem is a problem; it's not about how we react to it.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Yeah, but a problem is a problem is a problem; it's not about how we react to it.

    I disagree.

    A recall for a missing tire pressure label isn't in the same league as a leaking fuel line fitting causing fires.

    I'm betting most folks would react differently to those 2 problems.

    Can you honestly say you would see 2 airline's problems equally if one had complaints of tight seating and the other had known severe maintenance issues?

    I doubt it.

    So, it IS all about how we react to it. Cars aren't any different.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We're going around and around but let's consider that Chevy may have improved and actually earned a good score.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,753
    Thanks. It's not impossible.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Now, where can I get a new Malibu under $16k? I'm OK if it's the outgoing model. ;)
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Yes, I'd like to get in on that deal as well.
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