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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Yecch!!! The Mustang II was such an abomination that many books about the Mustang deny its existance!
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    If nothing else, the Vega was infinitely more attractive than the Pinto, Gremlin, or much of its foreign competition. It looked like a mini-Camaro. If the car had been done right, GM would've pulled off quite a coup in the subcompact market segment.
  • js06gvjs06gv Frisco, TXPosts: 447
    As someone who still owns his 2000 Trans Am, I don't agree with the fat and ugly comment but to each his own. The real reason they were discontinued at the time was buyers of these types of cars were mostly migrating toward trucks and SUVs, as was the case with most manufacturers during the SUV craze then. GM also made much more money off their trucks and focused it's efforts there. All of this said, and being a GM guy, when I wanted to buy my wife a new sporty ride last Christmas, I naturally checked out the new Camaro only to be extremely disappointed with what I found to be a very cheap looking interior. Ended up getting her a 2011 Mustang GT with the new 5.0 that I found to be the superior overall package though I will admit I still prefer the exterior styling of the Camaro. So now I have an old-school GM with a stick and a new tech Ford with an automatic. Best of both worlds!

    2016 Kia Optima SX, 2015 Ford Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150 King Ranch, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6, 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,945
    As a GM buff, even I have to say the new Camaro doesn't do anything for me, even though it is outselling Mustang. I like the rear view, and that's about it. Over the years I've gotten a new appreciation for the last-previous generation Camaro...as long as stripes and ground-effects are kept to a minimum or better yet, left at the door. I think the composite body panels were a good idea and it seems on those cars (as well as the Dustbuster vans) that paint adhesion is better than on many cars of that era, and the vehicles are looking good longer than their contemporaries.

    Lemko, I remember the '97 "Cutlass". Ick! Good use of space, but not much else.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,626
    My hot rod would be a Boss 302. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Despite the BK, GM is still tight on cash for R&D and Ford is even worse.

    According to GM's own accountants they had $20.3B in cash and $11B in securities they could sell. See the first 2 line items of P.10. http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2011/Q3-2011-Highlights.pdf-
    1) How much more $ do they need? 2) why did they just give their many thousands of employees bonuses, if they don't have $ to properly fund their operations?

    They don't have the Korean government behind them and they don't have the huge pile of state tax breaks for their plant operations helping their cash flow, so they realistically are a bit constrained.

    Check P. 8 of that link next. There is a row "Income Tax Expense (benefit)" GM made $1.822B in the 3rd quarter and paid $107M in taxes. This is about 6%. Would you pay 6%? I would CERTAINLY consider this tax breaks!

    but it isn't a gift that keeps giving like having a foreign government continually helping your finances or having 10 years or more of massive state tax breaks for their US plants.

    A simple solution as we're still the 800-LB economic gorilla. Our government bans the import of goods, or place tariffs on goods from countries that subsidize their industries to any degree. As I said before - I'm for bringing our troops out of Korea and such places. Let's see what governments have left to subsidize when they have to pay for their own defense.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Ended up getting her a 2011 Mustang GT with the new 5.0 that I found to be the superior overall package.

    Nice choice! Kona Blue is my favorite.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,626
    GM actually paid in advance to save Chrysler without knowing it. Very interesting. Now that support is biting them in the ***.

    Fiat: That's the deal perhaps filled with the most irony. GM and Italy's Fiat linked up thinking that there was plenty to gain from sharing power train technology and other hardware ventures. But the industrial prenuptial agreement had a section that, in effect, required GM to pay Fiat a lot of money if GM decided not to buy most or all of Fiat over time.

    So, in February 2005, GM announced it was paying Fiat $2 billion for a divorce, nervous about winding up owning all of then-troubled Fiat at a time GM had its own array of troubles.
    That became seed money for Fiat to survive, develop new models and fuel-efficient, low-pollution power trains. Thence, to use the promise of sharing its fuel-efficient technology as a lever to take control of Chrysler when that Detroit maker went through Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization in 2009.

    Fiat's CEO, Sergio Marchionne, accelerated the strong Chrysler products in the pipeline, generated a profit, and now Chrysler is propping up again-troubled Fiat, while directly challenging GM in several segments of the new-vehicle market.


    Here's the link. Dicey GM deals

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,054
    I wonder if that's the reason Chrysler products suddenly got a huge boost in interior quality, and improved components like the 3.6 V-6 and 8-speed automatic? I still remember going to the DC auto show back in early 2010, and I swear the Chrysler products they had on display had about the most perfect paint jobs of all the cars there. They must have been specially prepped or something, because those harsh overhead lights at the Convention Center will show off every little flaw. I was seeing more orange peel in the Benzes and BMWs than I was in the Chryslers! :surprise:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    edited December 2011
    Girly? lol, those Turbo 4's were far from girly. They were extremely quick and the Mazda platform was very capable for a front driver. It's downfall was it was larger and heavier than what it was competing with which was the Acura Integra and Toyota Celica.

    And the next gen V6 GT's? I had one myself and it kept right up with the Mustang GT of the same vintage on numerous occassions (back when I was a stupid kid).

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,945
    Honestly Lemko, I always thought they were 'girly' too. The typical driver around here was a twenty-something office type.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I postulate that the EPA testing doesn't discriminate and show the real advantage of the fuel efficiency of the smaller car

    I agree. At least their web site also accepts real-world MPG as input. We should check those numbers as well, and not just rely on EPA numbers, which are obtained in a lab.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2011
    GM seems to be taking the lead in a low priced e-assist system

    It's not really low priced, though:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2011/12/19/2013-chevrolet-malibu-eco-first-drive-revie- - - w/

    The 2013 Chevrolet Malibu will set you back $25,996, including destination, which doesn't exactly make it a steal compared to the more efficient 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid at $25,900 excluding destination

    I hope it's very well equipped else it will need a $1000+ rebate ASAP.

    By the way, I agree that the Passat's success is a curiosity. I think it's because they dropped the price, primarily. $19,995 base now.

    How long before you save $6000 worth of gas on a Malibu Eco?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I still remember going to the DC auto show back in early 2010, and I swear the Chrysler products they had on display had about the most perfect paint jobs of all the cars there

    I was there, too.

    Did you also notice the Fiat booth had the hottest models?

    wife slaps me

    I mean, I *HEARD* from other unmarried men that Fiat had the hottest models.

    wife slaps me again

    Never mind.

    You going again? We should get an Edmunds crew together and meet up there.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,727
    I always thought they were 'girly' too.

    Regardless, the last gen Probe GT was a very good performing car and Ford sold a lot of them.

    I have an uncle that's about 6 years older than me and he bought a '94 Probe GT v6 manual trans of college. I drove it many times and it was a fun car. Extremely smooth revving v6 with a broad powerband, tight handling, good gearbox, good steering feel, and strong brakes. Plus they were reliable. A better engineered and much tighter car than a Mustang at the time.

    Girly or not, they were about as much fun you could have in a FWD car. No they weren't a Mustang. Thankfully Ford came to their senses and listened to the customer for once.

    I don't know if they're girly or not. I see women driving v6 Camaros all of the time, are they girly too? A base Mustang was know as a secretary's car for years. Who cares, some women like sporty cars too.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,054
    he Civic was significantly smaller than the Vega, and the Chevette was significantly smaller than the Vega as well. The Civic came out in 1972, the Chevette in 1975 (gee, just about the right amount of time to realize they needed to get into the subcompact segment). The Vega continued to be made until 1977, the Vega was clearly in a different class and the Chevette didn't replace Vega, it sold concurrently:

    Chevrolet Vega - 170 in long (and that was BEFORE the 1974 bumpers which added 5 more inches to the length)
    Honda Civic - 147 in long
    Chevrolet Chevette - 159 in long


    Those are pretty noticeable differences by today's standards, but back in those days, if it was shorter than about 190 inches, I think the typical American lumped them all together as "small" cars. The smallest domestic compact was probably the 2-door Maverick, which was sort of an anomaly, on an abbreviated 103" wheelbase and probably around 185" long. Your more typical compact was around 190-206", midsized cars ran from around 205" to 220" plus, and big cars started around 218" and, once they started putting the 5 mph bumpers on, some of them broke the 230" barrier.

    IMO, GM really botched up with the Chevette by initially only offering it as a 2-door hatchback, from the abbreviated 1975 model year though 1977. The 4-door hatch wouldn't debut until 1978, the same year as the much more modern (but not necessarily reliable) Plymouth Horizon and Dodge Omni.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,945
    don't know if they're girly or not. I see women driving v6 Camaros all of the time, are they girly too?

    Yes. And this from a GM guy.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,054
    Did you also notice the Fiat booth had the hottest models?

    No comment, because I fear it will summon a phone call from my ex-wife! :P

    Another thing I noticed at the 2010 show was that they no longer had the Rolls Royces and Bentleys up on the pedestals and roped off, so all of us bougie class and trailer-park dwellers could actually get up and get our fingerprints on the things!

    Maybe business was hurting enough for RR and Bentley that they decided they need to get off their high horse and mingle a bit more with the crowds. Not that any of us could probably afford one!

    You going again? We should get an Edmunds crew together and meet up there.

    Haven't decided yet on this year, but I might go down. I missed it last year. Was planning on going to the Philly show last year, but I came down with an ear infection and had to back out.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    edited December 2011
    LOL, the girls I went to college with at the time were driving what we used to call "Plasticars"; Z24 Cavaliers, and Grand Ma's with tacked on plastic and rubbermade interiors, handed down to them by their parents.

    image

    "Ribbed for her pleasure" :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,054
    don't know if they're girly or not. I see women driving v6 Camaros all of the time, are they girly too?

    Yes. And this from a GM guy.


    Last year, when I was in a different location at work, I used to see a V-6 Camaro in the parking lot, which was driven by a guy. Found out that he was a secretary! :P So, I guess that stigma still stands! Actually, is it politically correct to say "secretary" anymore?

    Kinda sad though, that the V-6 still has that chick/secretary stigma. That ~300 hp would probably equate to around ~400 gross, back in the good old days, and I'm sure the V-6/automatic Camaro would smoke most of those old 60's muscle and pony cars.
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