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Honda Accord VCM



  • robtroxelrobtroxel Posts: 103

    You make a some good points on the TSX though finding a 6 speed Accord coupe is a little harder. I'm told they don't lease out well because of the 6 speed. Can you get a 5 speed in the EXL sedan?The actual lease cost between a TSX Automatic and Accord EXL v6 Auto is very close. Could it be that lately Acura is throwing more incentives into the pot ?
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Posts: 169
    edited May 2010
    To my knowledge, the EX-L 4 cylinder sedan is no longer available with a manual transmission ; / I believe you might have been able to get a manual on the EX-L sedan for the 2008/2009 model year but was discontinued for 2010.

    As for the similar monthly payments I suspect the small difference in costs between the Accord V6 sedan and TSX 4 auto (assuming you were referring to the 4) is because the TSX retains a higher percentage of its MSRP of which the lease payment is based (residual value).

    I haven't personally driven the current generation TSX but after having become accustomed to the Accord's V6 grunt, I'd likely have trouble going back to a 4 cylinder.

    Perhaps one of these weekends I'll give the TSX a whirl.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Posts: 315
    "Thanks to Obama and his fuel economy standards, don't be surprised if you see more and more cylinder deactivation type engines showing up through out many makes of cars besides just Honda"

    Honda has been putting the VCM engine in their cars since 2003 so I am not sure what Obama has to do with the VCM. I hope the other auto makers can learn from Honda's mistake because Honda surely did not learn from GM's mistake when they tried the same thing in the 80's
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Honda has been putting the VCM engine in their cars since 2003 so I am not sure what Obama has to do with the VCM. I hope the other auto makers can learn from Honda's mistake because Honda surely did not learn from GM's mistake when they tried the same thing in the 80's

    Honda has had few compalints that I know of from owners of the Pilot and Odyssey with VCM. It seems to be the application of the technology in the Accord that is raising the issues. GM and Chrysler are using their cylinder deactivation systems in V8 engines and I've heard little about them, also. Technology has advanced since 1981 General Motors.


    Also, what 2003 Honda had VCM? My understanding was that it made its debut in 2005 Odyssey and Accord Hybrid models.
  • rcummelinrcummelin Posts: 184
    Honda has had few complaints that I know of from owners of the Pilot and Odyssey with VCM. It seems to be the application of the technology in the Accord that is raising the issues.

    If you search the web, you can find a few complaints about VCM in the Odyssey & Pilot. Actually very few.

    To me, the interesting part of the entire VCM debate on this forum is that seemingly only a handful of Accord owners seem to find fault with the VCM-equipped V6s, while the majority of owners don't have any issues at all (like me!).

    We previously owned a 2008 Odyssey with VCM and had no issues with it. If the Odyssey had given us problems with it's VCM, we surely wouldn't have bought a new Accord.

    It's most unfortunate that Honda has taken the stance that all VCM complaints are answered with "The system is working as designed." This attitude is NOT helping Honda's reputation with previously loyal customers, and is likely to lose them future customers, even those folks with no VCM issues (again, like me!).
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Posts: 275
    I'm on my second VCM Accord sedan so it's obvious that I'm not bothered by it. My seat of the pants perception of my second one seems to indicate that, so far as my two vehicles go, there are differences from vehicle to vehicle. While my 08 would under certain conditions "clunk" as various cylinders were put to use/sleep, to the point that passengers would ask what that noise/feeling was, that is not the case in my 2010. Given the complexity of Honda's system compared to GM's, I'm not surprised by this. Any item that's mass manufactured has over and under tolerances that are allowed. When hydraulic engine mounts, ANC, and various engine components are to work in unison to mask the effects of cylinder transitions, a combination of units at various ends of the spectrum could produce slightly more noticeable effects than those that lie closer to the mean.
    While they have changed their web site from stating seamless to near seamless, they should have changed imperceptible by occupants to barely imperceptible, and you would have been presented with a more accurate presentation of real world VCM activity, and done this from the start. Backpedaling to correct inaccuracies will almost always be perceived as misrepresentation.
    Given most states economies and the lack of attention to proper road maintenance, feeling what amounts to the equivalent of a transmission shifting, is the least of my problems. Driving in New England lately I feel as if I'm on cobblestone roads most of the time.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Posts: 315
    "Also, what 2003 Honda had VCM?"

    Vehicles equipped with VCM
    2003 Honda Inspire
    2005-2007 Honda Accord Hybrid (J30)
    2005+ Honda Odyssey EX-L and Touring Models only (J35)
    2006+ Honda Pilot 2WD Models only (J35)
    2008 Honda Accord except EX-L V6 6MT Coupe
    2009+ Honda Pilot (all models)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Ok, so no sold-in-America Honda had VCM in '03. That's what I thought. Knew about all the others! :)
  • elliott2elliott2 Posts: 64
    Do you work for Honda in Windsor Locks, CT?
  • elliott2elliott2 Posts: 64
    Sorry. Your email moniker is close to the same last name as the factor rep (Meers) that called me last week regarding the pending class action lawsuit against Honda on the 2008 Accord.
  • hondafoolhondafool Posts: 9
    edited July 2010
    I wrote about my VCM problems and the ultimate solution back in March/April. The solution was to dump the '08 loaded V-6 and get as loaded a 2010 XL 4-cyl as was available. The 190 hp vs. 268 hp (or is it 270?) represents a startling decline in power but I'm living with it. What's amazing to me is that my wife's 2007 EX has 20 less hp but more pep than my 2010. I think her's may have been the last really good Honda. I'm not saying the 2010 is not a good car but it's far from exceptional, which is not what you're used to saying if you're a Honda enthusiast. FWIW, I do a lot of in town driving along with my 35 mile commute and I'm averaging 28 mpg with the 2010. If I drive it the speed limit it goes up to 30-31 mpg--but who has time to drive the speed limit? Anyway, I'm more than pleased with my mileage.

    I'll be keeping this one for a long time (for me 5 years is a long time) and unless Honda does something about the 6 cyl/VCM issue this will be my last Accord. I'm starting to sit up and notice...gasp...Hyundai. I never would have thought that those words would come out of my mouth!
  • robtroxelrobtroxel Posts: 103
    Glad you dumped the 08. I never made he move to the VCM V6 after driving one so I went with a 2010 Maxima from a 2007 EX V6 navi Accord which was turbine smooth. They cheapened up the 2008 + by removing those great LED tail lights. You are right, Honda is loosing it's edge!
  • austinman7austinman7 Posts: 313
    edited July 2010

    I have to agree with you about the superiority of the 2003-07 generation in some respects, especially in the drivetrain. My '04 4cyl. was peppier than a current 4 cyl. and the transmission was very smooth.

    I traded for a used '07 SE V6 with 13000 miles on it last year, and the engine is great, but the transmission doesn't shift as smoothly as I think it should. (Of course, the service dept. says it's operating normally -- I'm used to that response with today's cars.) So I'm kind of looking for something else.

    I would be driving a '10 Accord V6 right now if it weren't for the VCM and ANC. I keep checking this thread from time to time hoping for news that Honda came to its senses and at least made VCM an option. But I can't see that ever happening. So I'll probably drift away from Honda, in spite of the fact that I still love the overall build quality and driving experience of the one I have.
  • elliott2elliott2 Posts: 64
    Just dropped my 2008 Accord (VCM) off for service this morning for numerous problems. The gentleman from the dealership gave me a ride to work and gave me an earful about the problems that customers are having with the newer model Accords. He even went so far to tell me that the service dept employees joke that someone would have to be crazy to buy the current Accord based on the problems they're seeing. Also, the person at the service desk told me that she just got rid of her 2008 Accord.

    I have to agree with the statement that the previous generation of Accords were the last good Accords.
  • daneeldaneel Posts: 19
    I have a 2004 EX V-6 and a 2008 LX-P Accord, both with AT. The V-6 model has done 54,000 trouble-free miles and is still on its original Michelin tires.
    The LX-P, my wife's car, has done 26,500 miles without any problems whatsoever - even the rear brakes are still in good shape, no rattles, no squeaks, no nothing. In my opinion, the 2008 LX-P is the more solid vehicle and has the same sharp driving characteristics, e.g., steering response at Interstate speeds than the EX V-6. Needless to say, the V-6 engine is silky smooth across the ref range and consistently achieves 30 - 32 mpg at Interstate speeds. The LX-P engine is not as smooth and powerful but certainly has enough grunt to keep up with every traffic situation that it has been exposed to. I am a highly satisfied Accord owner that honestly think that the cars in the 2008 - 2010 model range are better than the those from the 2003 - 2007 years.
  • The current generation accord is missing some of the attention to detail, along with the solid engineering that was the Honda stock and trade. Add some obvious penny pinching.

    Details like how when driving at highway speeds in heavy rain, the water gets pulled back into the field of vision on the driver side by the wiper. Or the miserable low beams of the headlights, unless you re-bulb. BTW the low beam bulbs are a PIA to change compared to the older models.

    I have a 2008 EX-L V6 Navi. I can notice the vcm mini-shift sensation, the lag in acceleration, and I have a steering wheel shimmy at certain speeds. Also some shudder under braking. Wheels were roadforce balanced, front rotors have been turned, and so on. I basically gave up, as the dealers aren't interested in trying to fix anything that takes more than basic skill and tshooting. I'll ditch this tub for something else next year, and not look back. Till then, drive on, as is, unless it shakes itself apart or breaks.

    Yeah, it can get good highway MPG numbers, especially using cruise control - 29, but around town I get about the same MPG as my prior Subaru Turbo - 17. MPG was not why I bought it, and I think that Honda got off track using this technology when they haven't perfected it yet.
  • elliott2elliott2 Posts: 64
    I get similar gas mileage and agree with your observations regarding the lack of attention to detail.

    Just had the rear brakes replaced yesterday and got the royal run around from a Honda customer service rep at their 800 number. The class action lawsuit has not yet been approved by the court so they did not want to reimburse me for the brake replacement. (The Honda factory rep had warned me earlier that the rear brakes would go quickly. Apparently, the manufacturer of the brake pads did not manufacture them to spec. Instead of standing behind their product, Honda decided to stand behind their lawyers and deny the problem.)

    To add to the fun yesterday, there was a shiny new screw (used to install new license plates) sticking out of the tread of the front passenger side tire. The service desk told me to come back today to have it repaired. It didn't occur to him that I couldn't drive home and back on a flat tire.
  • Funny about that brake suit. When I had mine in for inspection, I actually heard the service writer telling a customer about it while giving them the usual bad news that they needed brakes. This will be a case where the dealers price the settlement in, make more profit, and the buyer feels they got a break - since they only pay the difference between the max reimbursement and the repair cost.

    Service writers have been taking up-sell classes, that's why they wanted to replace my cabin air filter at less than two years and 18K miles. Neat how being reluctant to do so got the quoted price to come down...chalk it up to the maintenance minder cutting down on routine months/miles maintenance work for the dealer.

    I think it bothers them if someone's bill is for just state and emissions inspections. I'm probably too negative, but for me these days customer service seems to be lip service at best, or outright insults. Speaking of hating home builders.....

    So did they claim the screw must have been in the tire when you gave it to them? Or did they pony up and do the inside patch repair and rebalance at their cost?
  • elliott2elliott2 Posts: 64
    After I pointed out that the screw was a shiny new screw that identically matched those used by the dealership to install new license plates, they quietly fixed and re-balanced the tire. HOWEVER, the dealership came back and suggested that I needed the transmission fluid changed at 29,000. (Not sure what this has to do with the flat tire but appears to be a means for charging for something to offset the tire repair.) Politely said "no thank you" and will have it checked at another garage.

    This car rivals the last GM car we owned as far as poor quality. This is the only car I've ever had that you could actually hear and feel the gas sloshing in the gas tank when you stop at a light or stop sign.
  • Glad they fixed it. Seems like a common thing for dealers to do, if they do something gratis they try and tack something else on. Had a Chrysler with the ultradrive transmission fail at 28k, and the dealer insisted the coolant needed flushed when they were changing the trans (I had already had the coolant done at an independent shop). If you say no, you wonder what will be wrong with the other repair. Hard to trust after that.

    Honda dealer here wanted to replace the cabin air filter and engine air filter at 2yrs 18k miles - car just needed state safety and emissions inspection (and had passed not needing anything). I was expecting rear brakes, but they said they were nowhere near worn out. If only they would chase the vibration with such vigor - but alas, it doesn't pay nearly as well.

    I play the radio, so no fuel sloshing heard here. Also, I tend to keep the tank fairly full.
  • eds66eds66 Posts: 2
    edited September 2010
    Hi guys. Two days ago I purchased a new Honda (2011) Accord Coupe EX-L V6 with Navi AT. I test drove it thoroughly -- both local roads and highway -- before shelling out the money. I saw no issues during the test drive. After I handed over the check to the dealer, I came across this forum and this thread. I was petrified. For the past 2 days I've been driving the car trying to reproduce if not all then at least some of the symptoms several of you have been complaining about in this thread. Fortunately for me, I have not able to generate any of the aberrant VCM behavior so scrupulously described by numerous posters. The car drives smoothly. I feel no jitters, bucks, shimmies, or any other drive train anomalies at all. There are no road force vibrations, no pops and rattles -- yet! -- from the dash, and no sloshing sounds from the fuel tank. There is road noise, but it's not so bad, and I am pretty sure it's caused by the monstrous Michelins that Honda opted to put on the wheels. The wheels, by the way, have been changed. To me they look much nicer now -- five spokes -- and they don't extend past the rubber. This will reduce chipping and scratching in the future, I am sure.

    Finally, I owned a 2009 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L Navi 6 speed Manual Transmission, which I sold 9 months after buying it. I liked the car, but the gearbox left much to be desired. The third gear was atrocious ( when the car was cold it was simply impossible to go from 2 to 3 without forcing it) and Honda could not do anything about it. The clutch was heavy, and the gear ratio was really weird. In fact, although the car was clearly faster off the line than my current Honda, I would bet that gear shift misses would probably negate most of the torque superiority of the 6 speed MT (at least in my case, although I've owned many MT vehicles.)

    If any of you have any questions about my 2011 Accord, please let me know.
  • Hi,

    Glad that your car is meeting all your expectations. Four years into the new design, it would be past time for them to have fixed the teething issues that some had. As it stands for me, I'm not crossing Honda off my future list, but it is no longer a 'no brainer' to buy one.

    When I bought mine, I discounted the advice that is/was typical for many domestic makes, which is to avoid the first model year or two of a re-design. My 2008 Accord Sedan EX-L V6 Navi was the first year of the eighth generation Accord, and to add to that the first year of the 3,4,6 VCM setup (it's been pointed out that the Odyssey had a 3,6 version) , amongst several other techno things - like the attempt at noise cancellation.

    Basically, its an OK car, but if Honda would listen - I am not very impressed. I've owned many new cars of various makes, and I expected this one to deliver, like the subaru, toyota, I owned prior. It is a notch or two below on fit, finish, and NVH. It actually has started to feel a bit like some old domestic cars in being a bit bloated feeling (unlike those, it handles well due to the big tires and good suspension setup).
  • I just love the looks of the Accord Coupe. That was the number one reason I got it in 09 and the number one reason I got it now. The 2011 version, in my opinion, looks even better than the 2008 - 2010 models: the rear end does not look so toy-like, and I was never too fond of the wire mesh grille. I think the current generation Accord Coupe the best looking car on the road for under $50,000.

    I was willing to accept a small number of defects for $30.00 as long as I liked the car overall. I've owned a lot of cars in my time, and they all have had defects. The best thing you can hope for these days is to get a car with a minimal number of flaws. The 2009 coupe 6MT simply had too many problems with the clutch pedal and gear box. The current model, 2011 Coupe V6 Automatic seems to be OK; better than OK, actually. I just hope some of these problems don't surface later.
  • rcummelinrcummelin Posts: 184
    edited September 2010
    If you haven't "felt" anything odd/different by now, it's a good chance you never will. We have had a 2010 EX-L V6 since January, and we only feel something "odd" once in a great while. Definitely nothing we are concerned about.

    The reality about the reported VCM "problems" is that some drivers are either extremely sensitive about very tiny changes in their cars, or their cars actually have real problems that 99% of VCM-equipped cars either do NOT have, or drivers cannot feel. The real issue about VCM is that Honda seems reluctant to do anything about the reported problems, stating that the cars are operating normally. That's really poor customer service! Shame on Honda for taking that stance.

    If you go back over the more than 2000 posts in this thread, you will discover that the actual complaints come from a very few number of posters. Obviously, they are not happy Honda owners, but IMHO, the vast majority of folks with VCM-equipped Hondas ARE happy owners.

    Drive it and enjoy it!
  • I feel it but it's not a major concern for me as well. It's just the nature of the VCM. I've had my 2009 EX-L V6 since Nov. 09, and I am still pleased with my purchase. The gas mileage is great; the look is great; the features are great; etc. Sure, there are some things I would change, but it's not a biggie for me. I've had the infamous rear brake problem, but it's been rectified (I hope), and I hope to get that $150 reimbursement via the Gibbs settlement. Now, if someone can advise me on how I can get my Ipod from my iPhone 4 to display and operate through the Nav panel, I'd be a happier camper. Overall, I give the car a B+, a good enough grade to keep it.
  • Hi there, I'm glad that you have no problems and I hope you don't develop any. I have a 2010 and my main gripe is when I drive at a constant speed of 65-70 (on the flat roads of FL) that my ECO light goes on and off repeatedly. Everytime that happens I feel the car "shift", surge, pause, vibrate. It also happens at 45-50, but its not as bad. So imagine taking a long highway trip with all that action going on. I really hate it. I've tried everything. Cruise control, etc. Still happens. For the money I spent I could have gotten a TSX with no ECO mode. Less HP and sportiness, but a lot more luxury features. I brought my car into the shop five times and they say there is nothing wrong. I have given up and now have 26 months left. If this isn't an issue for you, you are very lucky!!
  • VCM appeared to be a good idea on paper; in real life it can be annoying unless every component is functioning perfectly, i.e., liquid filled computer controlled engine mounts, noise cancellation system, computer controlled shifting of the transmission, etc.

    Given the wide range of opinions on the matter, there is apparently a wide range of performance, indicating some serious quality control issues.

    The VCM is most annoying on my 2008 between 30 and 45 mph, especially if you're driving up and down slight inclines. The transmission won't down shift and requires more torque as the car goes up an incline. The result is that the vibration from having less cylinders operating becomes very pronounced in the steering and the front passenger seats. When driving on the highway, the vibration becomes most pronounced when the engine is in three cylinder operation and the car feels like it's constantly shifting as the engine goes from 3 to 4 or 6 cylinders.

    While I like the appearance of the car, I will not be getting another unless Honda dumps the VCM.
  • My gut feel is it will be gone when the Gen 9 Accord goes into production. They should have enough confidence in their 6 speed auto tranny by then. The results in fuel economy should at least equal to VCM if not exceed it. The overall drivetrain feel will hopefully return to what brought loyal Accord owners back to the trough for frequent feedings.
  • VCM needs to go! Agreed,>> when Honda faithful customers such as me (Bought 5 Accords in the last 7 years) move on to another brand,(Not a Hyundia!) something is wrong. VCM tops the list as well as a general cheapening of the car (2007 vs the latest series) It's shame..
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